Answer to the gun problem


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Social climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Only in the US there are school shootings?

We had the Montreal massacre and a shooting in an Alberta school just after Columbine.

What about the horrible incident in Norway? Not a school but a summer camp for teens. Not a whole lot different than a school.

Stabbings in Chinese schools..........sorry, you were focused on guns.

The weirdness isn't confined to your country and we ( and the Norwegians ) have very strict gun laws........


Gym climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
Who knows why these shootings happen, but it's worth keeping in mind that overall rates of violent crime (including gun crime) is significantly down over a 20 year stretch.

My intuition would be the same as a lot of posters--these school shootings are somehow related to bad/absent parents, video games, modern culture, etc.

But that intuition seems wrong in the face of overall declining gun crime. Maybe it's just some weird copycat phenomenon--couple of whack jobs did it (Columbine) and got lots of press, now every marginalized/bullied kid who's also a bit off at least thinks about it.
Trusty Rusty

Tahoe Area
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
What has Changed? Everything.
Entertainment & media, family/social values, economics of violence, status of classes & races, firearm trade, lines at the base of El Cap. . everything has changed since then.
It's an endless dispute, energy sewer. The effluence of opinion and debate continues, imbeciles, scholars, puppet politicians, clergy and stoners. What's supposed to be protection of the innocent is a political sausage fest, fukng power game. Streets are more violent, senseless killings increase, economic injustice and global economics flourish. Answer to the Gun Problem? Our government's negligently working on it overtime, it's called total economic collapse and emergent chaos. . . that should resolve the so-called gun problem.

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:34pm PT ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:47pm PT

I agree on the "put them on a rope" outside, but only for the ones who pull the damn triggers.

They have rules in the HOMELAND about security.

THEY need to respond to this and soon.

I say bring back the damn noose and the gallows for these persons who kill in schools, which should be sacred ground, not shooting galleries.

Call it Old West, but it tends "to be a safe and effective mentifrice, when used in a conscientiously applied program of saving human lives," approved and recommended by myself and probably Ron A., who knows and respects firearms and human life.

I hadn't heard of this shooting until I saw it here on the Taco.

Bad Day at Black Rock?

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:49pm PT ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.

That first word, "simple..." Nothing is simple.

In this case you have parents who let their kid get their gun. Notice I did not say "a" gun. That lets them off the hook in a way.

They've got a kid who is a lunatic and they let him get their gun. And so your "simple" solution is to ban all guns except, and I cannot figure your choice for the life of me, a weapon which can dispense a slug just under 1/2 inch in diameter and can be reloaded quickly.

Did I just get trolled?

Oct 22, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
Stupid idea. Cheaper to train and arm volunteer professors.

And this is the dumbest comment I have seen in a while: ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Oct 22, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
And these school shootings were unheard of. WHAT has changed?

Open your eyes, many things.

What has changed? Boys now commit and watch pervasive, gratutitous violence daily on their computers. They literally kill people by the thousand evey week. In contrast to hunting, there is no real appreciation of what causing the death of fellow animal is really like. They have habitauted themselves to have absolutely no emotional or physical investment nor ownership of an ultimate act.

While I believe that video games are just a convenient scapegoat for the gun makers to vilify, I whole-heartedly agree with the hunting point, by the time I was 5 years old, I'd seen and smelled what a gun did do an animal.

I also disagree that guns are less readily available. Automatic weapons were effectively restricted decades before you were born, your childhood memory is incorrect. Sales of both handguns and long guns have increased steadily over decades, that's logical enough with population growth, but population growth isn't in rural areas where hunting is the purpose.

Owning a gun isn't just a constitutional right, it's a serious responsibility that almost all gun owners take far too lightly. On the bright side, thanks in part to Ted Cruz and his fellow maniacs, this will change soon.


Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Oct 22, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
Uh, Mouse I meant to put them on the end of a Climbing rope, Dude, not a noose. Climbing and the outdoors teaches youngun's respect for life and the planet. Lynne**

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 22, 2013 - 10:44pm PT

Civilization is done!

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
More unrestricted guns will definitely reduce the people problem, unfortunately.

When some disturbed person wants to blow kids to bits, guns sure make it easy for them. There is no doubt about that. I guess the only answer is the threat of more violence. Our society is devolving ;-(

Ah the age old question. And was addressed afterwards, kids are more violent. WHy?

Because of more guns, more drug use (legal presicp/illegal), more gang-banger bloviating, or because too many people like myself like having guns to defend myself from these little cowards.

They are getting too bold, just walking up and shooting people. The Boston bombers found a way to kill, so will these little punks, they usually just walk up and beat you dead, if you're not carrying.

And am I racist to point out that there seems to be a trend of BLACK YOUTHS killing white people? Or is it just a statistical fact that's ignored?

Boulder climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:32am PT
When I joined the NRA over fifty years ago their magazine might have as a cover a beautiful Parker shotgun on a nest of autumn leaves. Fast forward to current times, with a nasty AR-15 on that same bed of autumn leaves. Look inside. Ads showing hunters wearing camo and boonie caps, even occasionally dark smudges on faces, carrying assault-type flashlights and weapons (not firearms). We live in an increasingly militarized nation, with many Special Ops wanna-be's, including lots of law enforcement. And then Bill O'reilly has as a special guest the SEAL sniper who wrote a best seller and became a national hero. I'm not criticizing the late gentleman - he saved many American lives and we should be thankful for his bravery and skills. But it's all part of an emerging picture of America that makes me uneasy.

Gold Canyon, AZ
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:39am PT
It's also interesting that per capita gun ownership in America has been decreasing for some time but overall firearm sales are increasing. The only logical conclusion is that gun nuts are amassing ever greater stockpiles of weapons.

Tom Turrentine

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:00am PT
An interesting twist in this discussion may be the findings of this author-

The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined -Steven Pinker

According to Pinker, violence has declined, not increased over the last few hundred years. I heard him speak on the radio - I haven't read the book yet, but it sounds interesting. Murder in early United States apparently was much more frequent on a percentage basis than today, reductions nowadays mostly as a result of law enforcement and more civility. Governments, kings and such, were responsible for daily hangings and horrible violence. I think I heard him say 15% of people in tribal societies met violent death.

I think he sets aside mass deaths achieved in mechanized war of 20th Century.

One thing he notes is that we hear about most violence in the news- much violence would not even be reported a hundred years ago.

Oct 23, 2013 - 01:11am PT
Fully automatic weapons became more "restricted" in the 1930's via a federal tax. In other words, they merely became more expensive and required more paperwork. They are still completely legal in many states, including West Virginia. I have friends and family that own automatic weapons and other "NFA" firearms. Their use in crimes in the modern world approaches zero.

In many states today, and in even more places in the past, one can walk in, wait around for the federal background check, and walk out with as many firearms as you can afford. Interestingly, most of these states have lower than average gun violence. Conversely, many places with highly restrictive gun laws like Chicago and Oakland have extremely high gun violence.

How should we interpret these negative correlations?

Blaming gun manufacturers for the behavior of those that purchase these tools defies any logic. Alcohol producers are not liable for what occurs when people drink to excess. Big Tobacco? Car Industry? All of these products result in more deaths than those "caused" by guns by orders of magnitude. If reducing death is the prime directive, alcohol, tobacco, and animal protein should logically be banned or at least severely regulated.

As I mentioned up-thread, I grew up in a region saturated with firearms, white-trash racists, and radicalized, pissed-off young black men. These folks fought like badgers, rioted, and blew up the local college gym in the name of racial hatred. Despite all of that, they never went out to their trucks and turned readily available guns against each other.

What has changed? The mindset of teenage males. What has occurred that causes them to overreact and murder people over being "bullied" or marginalized (and what adolescent male in the history of the world has never felt bullied or marginalized?)?

1) A lack of substantive interaction with strong adult personalities who
could teach them how to deal with their feels and how to become a man.

2) Thousands of hours of committing extreme violence and causing thousands of virtual death that has absolutely zero emotional cost or commitment. "First-person shooter" video games are the emotional equivalent of the simulators used to train pilots. No sane child could kill so many real animals "for fun".

Beating a Dead Horse. I am done.

Not quite. If all children had experiences and a parent like this:,

it would not matter how many guns and how much ammo they had access to.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Its not the video games. Its more along jgill's line of thinking, imo.

America is an Empire. In every sense of the word. It needs absolute military dominance to survive. It needs soldiers for that military.

Spartans, lend me your ears..... the things you think it takes to be a man? They were foisted upon you by a society of chickenshit sobnsabitches who are perfectly happy for YOU to fight their battles for them, but they don't 'do' the military themselves.

Then they'll give you a speech about firefighters and plumbers and all their other service folk, by way of defense.

Whatever. But the machine needed virtual fighters and lo, first person virtual war games were born. Who do you think wrote V1?


Social climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 11:03am PT
It takes a individual to use a gun. It doesn't matter how many or what type of gun is set before you. An individual has to make a choice to pull the trigger. The fact is that in today"s society more individuals are willing to pull the trigger in circumstances that would have been Taboo in past times. The number of individuals committing these acts is still small in a general population of 300 some odd million and almost exclusively male.

Mark Grubb's thoughts above are a good synopsis of some of the influence's.

Humans love visual multimedia stimulation and a video game where you have the opportunity to violently and graphically kill individuals played over and over for hours, in the mind of the 1% of impressionable individuals has to have an effect on their moral values. Choosing to murder someone is after all a moral decision.

I find it telling in regards to the base nature of humans, that even folks on this forum who voice anti gun opinions also crave their weekly dose of "The Walking Dead" a tv show who's whole theme is interpersonal conflict and unending images of humans, being headshot. But they're zombies right? Could this show have been aired in years past when our society wasn't as comfortable with graphic violence? Even Dirty Harry didn't get to show his 44 magnum exploding that punks head.

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
And these school shootings were unheard of. WHAT has changed?

Population density. Violent crime rates correlate with population density. Easy access to guns results in more serious consequences from violent crime.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
He didn't say 'easier.'

It is easy to get guns. I can drive to Cabelas across the Nevada state line and walk out with an arsenal, easy as cash on the counter.


Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Ron, wtf man. Seriously.. PLEASE pull your head out of your ass and learn to read.
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