Answer to the gun problem


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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
I'm pretty sure agriculture, big pharmaceutical companies, and military contractors are already deeply intertwined with one another in our economy, and have been for a very long time. As I understand it, fertilizer, for example, is a re-appropriation of something that previously had an exclusively wartime use. Thus profits gained from fertilizer feed military contractors, since it's not like the factories that produced that stuff changed ownership when they started using that product for fertilizer instead of wartime uses.

So ask yourself, standing on which side of this issue, for which reasons, most greatly weakens those who seek to control us more than they already do? For me, that is not the side which seeks to take away the spirit of those who would otherwise take a stand.

Random question: Who here thinks that any public display of passion is out of line? I'm curious if there is not a great deal of overlap between those people and the folks who think everyones guns are the problem and need to be taken away.

Oct 22, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
What has changed, indeed.

I grew up in southern West Virginia in the 1960's and 70's which was probably a "poster child" for a pervasive gun culture. Like Ron, many trucks in the high school parking lot had rifles and shotguns in them. Kids went hunting with other kids and even teachers after school.

Gun availibility of all types has decreased markedly in the USA through time. In addition the prices, in "level" dollars for guns and ammo has increased. Up until the late 1960's guns, up to and including fully automatic weapons and the "assault weapons" of the day - M1A's, M1 Carbies, and Garands were readily available from any hardware store in town and via mail order for very inexpensive prices.

During this time period, the two high schools in town (white and black) were forcibly integrated. There were fist fights, riots and horribly one-sided beat-downs (on both sides of the racial divide) almost daily in the school. No combatants EVER went to get a readily accessible gun from their vehicle.

What has changed? Boys now commit and watch pervasive, gratutitous violence daily on their computers. They literally kill people by the thousand evey week. In contrast to hunting, there is no real appreciation of what causing the death of fellow animal is really like. They have habitauted themselves to have absolutely no emotional or physical investment nor ownership of an ultimate act.

Combine that with the fact that have essentially zero parent involvement in their lives. They are being raised by the internet, TV, and social media.

I woulds suggest that we are currently raing a generation of souless quasi-serial killers.


Social climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Only in the US there are school shootings?

We had the Montreal massacre and a shooting in an Alberta school just after Columbine.

What about the horrible incident in Norway? Not a school but a summer camp for teens. Not a whole lot different than a school.

Stabbings in Chinese schools..........sorry, you were focused on guns.

The weirdness isn't confined to your country and we ( and the Norwegians ) have very strict gun laws........


Oct 22, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Mark, I would further suggest that said generation of serial killers will battle each other constantly and make it SIMPLE for any half wit to control them. Wait a minute...

Gym climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
Who knows why these shootings happen, but it's worth keeping in mind that overall rates of violent crime (including gun crime) is significantly down over a 20 year stretch.

My intuition would be the same as a lot of posters--these school shootings are somehow related to bad/absent parents, video games, modern culture, etc.

But that intuition seems wrong in the face of overall declining gun crime. Maybe it's just some weird copycat phenomenon--couple of whack jobs did it (Columbine) and got lots of press, now every marginalized/bullied kid who's also a bit off at least thinks about it.
Trusty Rusty

Tahoe Area
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
What has Changed? Everything.
Entertainment & media, family/social values, economics of violence, status of classes & races, firearm trade, lines at the base of El Cap. . everything has changed since then.
It's an endless dispute, energy sewer. The effluence of opinion and debate continues, imbeciles, scholars, puppet politicians, clergy and stoners. What's supposed to be protection of the innocent is a political sausage fest, fukng power game. Streets are more violent, senseless killings increase, economic injustice and global economics flourish. Answer to the Gun Problem? Our government's negligently working on it overtime, it's called total economic collapse and emergent chaos. . . that should resolve the so-called gun problem.

Oct 22, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
It seems to be this guys opinion that it is likely more related to a failure on the part of our mental health system: /

I more agree with the opinion of it being a general sickness in our society brought about by things like lack of proper parenting, which in turn leads to more unstable and unhappy individuals, who in turn do more crazy things like shoot lots of people. So yes a mental health problem, but one that is not addressed by declaring more people "crazy" and monitoring and/or drugging them heavily. I think it's better addressed by making sure we all strive to have everyone living with dignity and respect.

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:34pm PT ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:47pm PT

I agree on the "put them on a rope" outside, but only for the ones who pull the damn triggers.

They have rules in the HOMELAND about security.

THEY need to respond to this and soon.

I say bring back the damn noose and the gallows for these persons who kill in schools, which should be sacred ground, not shooting galleries.

Call it Old West, but it tends "to be a safe and effective mentifrice, when used in a conscientiously applied program of saving human lives," approved and recommended by myself and probably Ron A., who knows and respects firearms and human life.

I hadn't heard of this shooting until I saw it here on the Taco.

Bad Day at Black Rock?

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:49pm PT ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.

That first word, "simple..." Nothing is simple.

In this case you have parents who let their kid get their gun. Notice I did not say "a" gun. That lets them off the hook in a way.

They've got a kid who is a lunatic and they let him get their gun. And so your "simple" solution is to ban all guns except, and I cannot figure your choice for the life of me, a weapon which can dispense a slug just under 1/2 inch in diameter and can be reloaded quickly.

Did I just get trolled?

Oct 22, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
Stupid idea. Cheaper to train and arm volunteer professors.

And this is the dumbest comment I have seen in a while: ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Oct 22, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
And these school shootings were unheard of. WHAT has changed?

Open your eyes, many things.

What has changed? Boys now commit and watch pervasive, gratutitous violence daily on their computers. They literally kill people by the thousand evey week. In contrast to hunting, there is no real appreciation of what causing the death of fellow animal is really like. They have habitauted themselves to have absolutely no emotional or physical investment nor ownership of an ultimate act.

While I believe that video games are just a convenient scapegoat for the gun makers to vilify, I whole-heartedly agree with the hunting point, by the time I was 5 years old, I'd seen and smelled what a gun did do an animal.

I also disagree that guns are less readily available. Automatic weapons were effectively restricted decades before you were born, your childhood memory is incorrect. Sales of both handguns and long guns have increased steadily over decades, that's logical enough with population growth, but population growth isn't in rural areas where hunting is the purpose.

Owning a gun isn't just a constitutional right, it's a serious responsibility that almost all gun owners take far too lightly. On the bright side, thanks in part to Ted Cruz and his fellow maniacs, this will change soon.


Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Oct 22, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
Uh, Mouse I meant to put them on the end of a Climbing rope, Dude, not a noose. Climbing and the outdoors teaches youngun's respect for life and the planet. Lynne**

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 22, 2013 - 10:44pm PT

Civilization is done!

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
More unrestricted guns will definitely reduce the people problem, unfortunately.

When some disturbed person wants to blow kids to bits, guns sure make it easy for them. There is no doubt about that. I guess the only answer is the threat of more violence. Our society is devolving ;-(

Ah the age old question. And was addressed afterwards, kids are more violent. WHy?

Because of more guns, more drug use (legal presicp/illegal), more gang-banger bloviating, or because too many people like myself like having guns to defend myself from these little cowards.

They are getting too bold, just walking up and shooting people. The Boston bombers found a way to kill, so will these little punks, they usually just walk up and beat you dead, if you're not carrying.

And am I racist to point out that there seems to be a trend of BLACK YOUTHS killing white people? Or is it just a statistical fact that's ignored?

Oct 22, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
Bluering, I think that has everything to do with the fact that gun violence, poverty, and being black are all highly correlated. If instead white people were the poor ones in this country, it would be WHITE YOUTHS killing black people.

So your right that that statistic is ignored, but I think its because talking about that issue would bring to light the correlation between poverty and gun violence, and poverty and being black, and make us talk about real issues.

Boulder climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:32am PT
When I joined the NRA over fifty years ago their magazine might have as a cover a beautiful Parker shotgun on a nest of autumn leaves. Fast forward to current times, with a nasty AR-15 on that same bed of autumn leaves. Look inside. Ads showing hunters wearing camo and boonie caps, even occasionally dark smudges on faces, carrying assault-type flashlights and weapons (not firearms). We live in an increasingly militarized nation, with many Special Ops wanna-be's, including lots of law enforcement. And then Bill O'reilly has as a special guest the SEAL sniper who wrote a best seller and became a national hero. I'm not criticizing the late gentleman - he saved many American lives and we should be thankful for his bravery and skills. But it's all part of an emerging picture of America that makes me uneasy.

Gold Canyon, AZ
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:39am PT
It's also interesting that per capita gun ownership in America has been decreasing for some time but overall firearm sales are increasing. The only logical conclusion is that gun nuts are amassing ever greater stockpiles of weapons.

Tom Turrentine

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:00am PT
An interesting twist in this discussion may be the findings of this author-

The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined -Steven Pinker

According to Pinker, violence has declined, not increased over the last few hundred years. I heard him speak on the radio - I haven't read the book yet, but it sounds interesting. Murder in early United States apparently was much more frequent on a percentage basis than today, reductions nowadays mostly as a result of law enforcement and more civility. Governments, kings and such, were responsible for daily hangings and horrible violence. I think I heard him say 15% of people in tribal societies met violent death.

I think he sets aside mass deaths achieved in mechanized war of 20th Century.

One thing he notes is that we hear about most violence in the news- much violence would not even be reported a hundred years ago.

Oct 23, 2013 - 01:04am PT
jgill and curt, I don't think it's those gun nuts that are predominantly the problem. There is some overlap there between the mass shooters and gun culture, but on some level that would be expected given those crimes were perpetrated with guns. I think there is extremely little overlap between gun nuts and your everyday gun violence, which is predominantly gang and poverty related.

I live in Wyoming though, so I know LOTS of regular decent folk who LOVE guns. Interestingly, the parts of Wyoming that have the most gun violence (not that there is a lot here) tend to be poor areas and the violence tends to involve poor people, who mostly happen to be white.

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