Answer to the gun problem

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jstan

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 22, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
Yesterday's school shooting in Nevada apparently has stimulated media interest in this answer.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/17/us/maryland-armored-whiteboards/index.html?iid=article_sidebar

Maryland university buying bulletproof whiteboards
By CNN Staff
updated 9:16 AM EDT, Sat August 17, 2013

University of Maryland-Eastern Shore is buying 200 bulletproof whiteboards
The whiteboards use technology developed to protect police, military
The 18-by-20-inch boards weigh less than 4 pounds

(CNN) -- Using technology designed to protect U.S. troops, a Maryland company that makes bulletproof whiteboards has contracted with a university seeking to offer its professors greater protection in the event of a school shooting.

The University of Maryland-Eastern Shore announced that it is purchasing 200 of the whiteboards from Hardwire LLC, a company based in Pocomoke City,

Maryland, citing the need for a heightened sense of security in the wake of deadly mass shootings in recent years.

Hardwire manufactures a variety of protective systems for police and military use, and also designs protective systems for infrastructure such as bridges. Between 2008 and 2011, it produced more than 5,000 armor kits for U.S. Mine Resistant Ambush Protected (MRAP) vehicles, the company says on its website.

More recently, the company has adapted technologies for school security, most notably the lightweight, 18-by-20-inch bulletproof whiteboards designed to protect the user's head and torso.

The university's president, Juliette Bell, told CNN that the deadly school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut last December, in which a lone gunman killed 26 people, including 20 children, was a factor in the decision. Although UMES has not had a shooting incident, preventive campus security is a critical consideration, Bell said. "It's the reality, as unfortunate as that is."

UMES has detailed response procedures for managing emergencies, but Bell said she and other school officials saw the whiteboards as a viable first line of defense.

"Anything that we can do that could potentially save a life, we are going to explore," she said.

UMES Campus Police Chief Ernest Leatherbury noted the board, which weighs less than 4 pounds, is user-friendly. "This is so accessible," he said, "and it's not cumbersome."

UMES is the first U.S. institution of higher education to make such a significant investment in the whiteboards, committing nearly $60,000. They will be in classrooms when classes resume for the fall semester on August 26.


Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 22, 2013 - 02:52pm PT
wouldn't be the first time a professor hid behind a whiteboard.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:01pm PT
wouldn't be the first time a professor hid behind a whiteboard.

I resemble that remark!

John
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
So let me get this straight - school shootings are such a problem that we are giving students shields they can hold up in the even someone kicks the door down with an automatic rifle?

Good grief.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
You got that right, GD.

No doubt the NRA gun-nutz will see this as a perfectly logical, reasonable option, along with gun-toting teachers, students, hall monitors, and bullet proof book bags, lunch boxes, etc.

Don't tread on me, goddamit!

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
Hey, Greg..did you get my reply to your ST email a few weeks ago? Never sure if yahoo is actually working these days...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
Emergency running shoes? Pin wheels to dazzle the assailant's eyes?

I know... legalize spit wads!!!! Give children a fighting chance!!!1111

Those magic blankets the hobbits used to hide from The Eye of Sauron? Those would surely solve the problem as much as Galadriel's White Board?

DMT
PAUL SOUZA

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
There is no "gun problem." Only a people problem. Gun control only offers an illusion of safety.
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
How about a bulletproof whiteboard you can wear?

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
I was raised with guns. Took them to highschool in the gun rack for quick hunts after school. Guns were every where in the sixties, and most kids were trained early in their use, even getting bb guns as youngsters. By the time you were 12, you were deer hunting. And these school shootings were unheard of. WHAT has changed?


Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
Who wants to place bets that the shooter was on psychiatric meds?
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
WHAT has changed?

Gun owners reproduced.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
More unrestricted guns will definitely reduce the people problem, unfortunately.

When some disturbed person wants to blow kids to bits, guns sure make it easy for them. There is no doubt about that. I guess the only answer is the threat of more violence. Our society is devolving ;-(
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
There has to be a balance between sword and shield.

Unfortunately we cannot outlaw stupidity. Some people feel the need to look for surrogates.
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
WHAT has changed?

Gun owners reproduced.

Killer.

We have had a break through! A major break through with this shooting.

WHAT has changed?
/RA

Do you realize how seldom that question is ever asked?

Edit:
WHAT has changed?

The people who buy and shoot guns as well as the quantity and availability of firepower.

Certainly, but other things have also changed. On another thread I mouthed off to the effect that today children are increasingly being raised by other children. This Nevada boy had been bullied. I ask myself what I would have done had my parents been out of the picture and I was being bullied. My first option would have been to get into weight training and learning how to defend myself. We also need to ask how much bullying is backed by a gang. That too is potentially new.
When opposed by a gang and absent an adult supporter, might one get pissed off enough to reach for a piece?

I think we have a number of causes, converging.
MisterE

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
Then there is this option that worried parents are turning to, as well:

http://www.amazon.com/Bullet-Proof-Backpacks-Kids-Small/dp/B00C6ASWP2

http://backpackshield.com/
FortMentäl

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
I was raised with guns. Took them to highschool in the gun rack for quick hunts after school. Guns were every where in the sixties, and most kids were trained early in their use, even getting bb guns as youngsters. By the time you were 12, you were deer hunting. And these school shootings were unheard of. WHAT has changed?

That's a "vertical" survey.

Let's take a "horizontal" survey and ask the following: Developed nations have the same population of nutballs as the US, and yet only in the US are there school shootings. What's different?
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
WHAT has changed?

The people who buy and shoot guns as well as the quantity and availability of firepower.

DMT
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
A part of what has changed, imho, are the number of children from infancy up that are exposed to some pretty severe violence in most of our media, phones, games etc.

Recently heard a 6 year old tell his brother he wanted to kill him. Watching the games he plays I don't think he respects human life and thinks that games and life are similar.

Get these kids outside; put them on a rope safely and let them learn respect and a little fear. Of course, again, imho. Lynne
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
We have become a society where gratuitous violence is becoming a bigger part of our entertainment, and more accepted. Video games, MMC, Football hits getting out of hand etc. that is one thing that is changing. More people are getting desensitized to it, and if you are on the edge it could seem like a solution to your problems.

Many psychotropic drugs have gnarly side affects as well. Once you start them it can be a life sentence.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 22, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
LL,, spot on..

Fortmental,, your dead wrong about these incidents happening only in the USA,, dead wrong.


Now NONE of you get yur pants in a bunch but this is my theory backed by personal observation and experience.

The parents of the boomer and gen x ages generally,, have proven to be some of the WORST imho. Both Mom and Dad working, while little jimmy raises himself with the most violent video games twisted minds can came up with, coupled with the internet where ANYTHING can be seen from be -headings to suicides.
Meanwhile the parents are consumed by work, paying bills and crumbling economys.. I truly believe the family unit as such went by the wayside and our kids became little monsters. Ok,, you may now burn me at the stake!;-)



edit: forgot to mention ADD did NOT exist. Its symptoms were cured with a paddle by the principal, and them the parents and theirs..
jammer

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
Except Dingus, I would be willing to bet the guns available in the 60's were relatively more high tech compared to what the military owned, than the guns and ammo bought today. Additionally, more of America subscribed to the gun culture back then. So, again, WHAT has changed? And how does our governments handling of things like the Patriot Act factor in to how you think they would deal with the "gun problem"? Just curious...
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Oct 22, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
WHAT has changed?

A lot of things have changed, problem is there is a lot people who think nothing has changed, like yourself. You hammer down on everything and call it BS, climate change, health care, gun laws...and what happens is people get left behind. They dont get the help they need and then sh#t goes south.

There is a sh#t load more people straining the old system, now folks need to work together, but for some reason there is this every man for himself mentality.

I find it so freaking weird that religious people, supoosedly the best folks on earth, have no problems saying...if he doesnt work he can dye a slow painful death because I refuse to support whatever social progams because its communist or whatever....

Well guess what, the folks who have nothing left to live for or cant get help go bat sh#t crazy and do weird sh#t. Then you end up paying for it in the end anyways, and a lot more.

Here is a news flash for you, sh#t has changed, and its never going back to the way it was...so you can either change, or you can die off and the young folks will change it for you.

Its not the video games, its the absentee parents working 7 days a week to afford sh#t that was, when you were growing up, basic, like a ride to work or a parent free to hunt after school...there are too many folks like you who think hey man I walked up hill both ways and so should you.

Bullet prrof chalk boards...thats the solution? It certainly is the cheapest, but hell one of your other nut bar friends will make chalk board bullets cause thats their right
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Oct 22, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
The gun manufacturers also make the shields. It's a perfectly integrated and controlled vertical market as far as it goes.

The next step will be to buy up big pharma so that they control the means of controlling those who flunk the background checks.

Do they control the background check process yet?

At some point will the gun-runners control every aspect of life in the United States?



And what about planned obsolescence?



Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Oct 22, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
As these school shootings become more frequent (and they are) the argument that we need more people with more guns to prevent the shootings somehow seems absurd. The only thing we can know with certainty is that there would be no school shootings if there were no guns. Everything else is merely speculation and conjecture.

Curt
jammer

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
I'm pretty sure agriculture, big pharmaceutical companies, and military contractors are already deeply intertwined with one another in our economy, and have been for a very long time. As I understand it, fertilizer, for example, is a re-appropriation of something that previously had an exclusively wartime use. Thus profits gained from fertilizer feed military contractors, since it's not like the factories that produced that stuff changed ownership when they started using that product for fertilizer instead of wartime uses.

So ask yourself, standing on which side of this issue, for which reasons, most greatly weakens those who seek to control us more than they already do? For me, that is not the side which seeks to take away the spirit of those who would otherwise take a stand.

Random question: Who here thinks that any public display of passion is out of line? I'm curious if there is not a great deal of overlap between those people and the folks who think everyones guns are the problem and need to be taken away.
MarkGrubb

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
What has changed, indeed.

I grew up in southern West Virginia in the 1960's and 70's which was probably a "poster child" for a pervasive gun culture. Like Ron, many trucks in the high school parking lot had rifles and shotguns in them. Kids went hunting with other kids and even teachers after school.

Gun availibility of all types has decreased markedly in the USA through time. In addition the prices, in "level" dollars for guns and ammo has increased. Up until the late 1960's guns, up to and including fully automatic weapons and the "assault weapons" of the day - M1A's, M1 Carbies, and Garands were readily available from any hardware store in town and via mail order for very inexpensive prices.

During this time period, the two high schools in town (white and black) were forcibly integrated. There were fist fights, riots and horribly one-sided beat-downs (on both sides of the racial divide) almost daily in the school. No combatants EVER went to get a readily accessible gun from their vehicle.

What has changed? Boys now commit and watch pervasive, gratutitous violence daily on their computers. They literally kill people by the thousand evey week. In contrast to hunting, there is no real appreciation of what causing the death of fellow animal is really like. They have habitauted themselves to have absolutely no emotional or physical investment nor ownership of an ultimate act.

Combine that with the fact that have essentially zero parent involvement in their lives. They are being raised by the internet, TV, and social media.

I woulds suggest that we are currently raing a generation of souless quasi-serial killers.

Tami

Social climber
Canada
Oct 22, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Only in the US there are school shootings?

We had the Montreal massacre and a shooting in an Alberta school just after Columbine.

What about the horrible incident in Norway? Not a school but a summer camp for teens. Not a whole lot different than a school.

Stabbings in Chinese schools..........sorry, you were focused on guns.

The weirdness isn't confined to your country and we ( and the Norwegians ) have very strict gun laws........


jammer

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Mark, I would further suggest that said generation of serial killers will battle each other constantly and make it SIMPLE for any half wit to control them. Wait a minute...
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Oct 22, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
Who knows why these shootings happen, but it's worth keeping in mind that overall rates of violent crime (including gun crime) is significantly down over a 20 year stretch.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/08/us/study-gun-homicide

My intuition would be the same as a lot of posters--these school shootings are somehow related to bad/absent parents, video games, modern culture, etc.

But that intuition seems wrong in the face of overall declining gun crime. Maybe it's just some weird copycat phenomenon--couple of whack jobs did it (Columbine) and got lots of press, now every marginalized/bullied kid who's also a bit off at least thinks about it.
Trusty Rusty

climber
Tahoe Area
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
What has Changed? Everything.
Entertainment & media, family/social values, economics of violence, status of classes & races, firearm trade, lines at the base of El Cap. . everything has changed since then.
It's an endless dispute, energy sewer. The effluence of opinion and debate continues, imbeciles, scholars, puppet politicians, clergy and stoners. What's supposed to be protection of the innocent is a political sausage fest, fukng power game. Streets are more violent, senseless killings increase, economic injustice and global economics flourish. Answer to the Gun Problem? Our government's negligently working on it overtime, it's called total economic collapse and emergent chaos. . . that should resolve the so-called gun problem.
jammer

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
It seems to be this guys opinion that it is likely more related to a failure on the part of our mental health system: /http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/20/opinion/ferguson-video-games/

I more agree with the opinion of it being a general sickness in our society brought about by things like lack of proper parenting, which in turn leads to more unstable and unhappy individuals, who in turn do more crazy things like shoot lots of people. So yes a mental health problem, but one that is not addressed by declaring more people "crazy" and monitoring and/or drugging them heavily. I think it's better addressed by making sure we all strive to have everyone living with dignity and respect.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
Simple.....total ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Lynne,

I agree on the "put them on a rope" outside, but only for the ones who pull the damn triggers.

They have rules in the HOMELAND about security.

THEY need to respond to this and soon.

I say bring back the damn noose and the gallows for these persons who kill in schools, which should be sacred ground, not shooting galleries.

Call it Old West, but it tends "to be a safe and effective mentifrice, when used in a conscientiously applied program of saving human lives," approved and recommended by myself and probably Ron A., who knows and respects firearms and human life.

I hadn't heard of this shooting until I saw it here on the Taco.

Bad Day at Black Rock?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
Simple.....total ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.

That first word, "simple..." Nothing is simple.

In this case you have parents who let their kid get their gun. Notice I did not say "a" gun. That lets them off the hook in a way.

They've got a kid who is a lunatic and they let him get their gun. And so your "simple" solution is to ban all guns except, and I cannot figure your choice for the life of me, a weapon which can dispense a slug just under 1/2 inch in diameter and can be reloaded quickly.

Did I just get trolled?
Nemesis

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
Stupid idea. Cheaper to train and arm volunteer professors.

And this is the dumbest comment I have seen in a while:

Simple.....total ban and confiscation of all weapons with the exception of single barrel 410 shotguns.
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Oct 22, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
And these school shootings were unheard of. WHAT has changed?

Open your eyes, many things.

What has changed? Boys now commit and watch pervasive, gratutitous violence daily on their computers. They literally kill people by the thousand evey week. In contrast to hunting, there is no real appreciation of what causing the death of fellow animal is really like. They have habitauted themselves to have absolutely no emotional or physical investment nor ownership of an ultimate act.

While I believe that video games are just a convenient scapegoat for the gun makers to vilify, I whole-heartedly agree with the hunting point, by the time I was 5 years old, I'd seen and smelled what a gun did do an animal.

I also disagree that guns are less readily available. Automatic weapons were effectively restricted decades before you were born, your childhood memory is incorrect. Sales of both handguns and long guns have increased steadily over decades, that's logical enough with population growth, but population growth isn't in rural areas where hunting is the purpose.

Owning a gun isn't just a constitutional right, it's a serious responsibility that almost all gun owners take far too lightly. On the bright side, thanks in part to Ted Cruz and his fellow maniacs, this will change soon.

TE



tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 22, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
I believe Norman Clyde had been accused of threats to "shoot students"...
oh well, we live in different times, insurance required, time of fear of everything and anything, guns, not having the government supervision...dog bites are scary too, I heard a dog dared to bit someone, despite the what law says. S### happens.
Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber
moving thru
Oct 22, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
Uh, Mouse I meant to put them on the end of a Climbing rope, Dude, not a noose. Climbing and the outdoors teaches youngun's respect for life and the planet. Lynne**
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 22, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/buster/woman-arrested-for-water-gun-attack-576432

Civilization is done!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Oct 22, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
More unrestricted guns will definitely reduce the people problem, unfortunately.

When some disturbed person wants to blow kids to bits, guns sure make it easy for them. There is no doubt about that. I guess the only answer is the threat of more violence. Our society is devolving ;-(


Ah the age old question. And was addressed afterwards, kids are more violent. WHy?

Because of more guns, more drug use (legal presicp/illegal), more gang-banger bloviating, or because too many people like myself like having guns to defend myself from these little cowards.

They are getting too bold, just walking up and shooting people. The Boston bombers found a way to kill, so will these little punks, they usually just walk up and beat you dead, if you're not carrying.

And am I racist to point out that there seems to be a trend of BLACK YOUTHS killing white people? Or is it just a statistical fact that's ignored?
jammer

climber
Oct 22, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
Bluering, I think that has everything to do with the fact that gun violence, poverty, and being black are all highly correlated. If instead white people were the poor ones in this country, it would be WHITE YOUTHS killing black people.

So your right that that statistic is ignored, but I think its because talking about that issue would bring to light the correlation between poverty and gun violence, and poverty and being black, and make us talk about real issues.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:32am PT
When I joined the NRA over fifty years ago their magazine might have as a cover a beautiful Parker shotgun on a nest of autumn leaves. Fast forward to current times, with a nasty AR-15 on that same bed of autumn leaves. Look inside. Ads showing hunters wearing camo and boonie caps, even occasionally dark smudges on faces, carrying assault-type flashlights and weapons (not firearms). We live in an increasingly militarized nation, with many Special Ops wanna-be's, including lots of law enforcement. And then Bill O'reilly has as a special guest the SEAL sniper who wrote a best seller and became a national hero. I'm not criticizing the late gentleman - he saved many American lives and we should be thankful for his bravery and skills. But it's all part of an emerging picture of America that makes me uneasy.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:39am PT
It's also interesting that per capita gun ownership in America has been decreasing for some time but overall firearm sales are increasing. The only logical conclusion is that gun nuts are amassing ever greater stockpiles of weapons.

Curt
Tom Turrentine

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:00am PT
An interesting twist in this discussion may be the findings of this author-

The Better Angels of Our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined -Steven Pinker

According to Pinker, violence has declined, not increased over the last few hundred years. I heard him speak on the radio - I haven't read the book yet, but it sounds interesting. Murder in early United States apparently was much more frequent on a percentage basis than today, reductions nowadays mostly as a result of law enforcement and more civility. Governments, kings and such, were responsible for daily hangings and horrible violence. I think I heard him say 15% of people in tribal societies met violent death.

I think he sets aside mass deaths achieved in mechanized war of 20th Century.

One thing he notes is that we hear about most violence in the news- much violence would not even be reported a hundred years ago.
jammer

climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:04am PT
jgill and curt, I don't think it's those gun nuts that are predominantly the problem. There is some overlap there between the mass shooters and gun culture, but on some level that would be expected given those crimes were perpetrated with guns. I think there is extremely little overlap between gun nuts and your everyday gun violence, which is predominantly gang and poverty related.

I live in Wyoming though, so I know LOTS of regular decent folk who LOVE guns. Interestingly, the parts of Wyoming that have the most gun violence (not that there is a lot here) tend to be poor areas and the violence tends to involve poor people, who mostly happen to be white.

The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:07am PT
We live in an increasingly militarized nation, with many Special Ops wanna-be's, including lots of law enforcement. And then Bill O'reilly has as a special guest the SEAL sniper who wrote a best seller and became a national hero. I'm not criticizing the late gentleman - he saved many American lives and we should be thankful for his bravery and skills. But it's all part of an emerging picture of America that makes me uneasy.



Bet ya the exact same thing would/could have been said concerning Daniel Boone/Davy Crockett during their day.

Just saying John.

MarkGrubb

climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:11am PT
Fully automatic weapons became more "restricted" in the 1930's via a federal tax. In other words, they merely became more expensive and required more paperwork. They are still completely legal in many states, including West Virginia. I have friends and family that own automatic weapons and other "NFA" firearms. Their use in crimes in the modern world approaches zero.

In many states today, and in even more places in the past, one can walk in, wait around for the federal background check, and walk out with as many firearms as you can afford. Interestingly, most of these states have lower than average gun violence. Conversely, many places with highly restrictive gun laws like Chicago and Oakland have extremely high gun violence.

How should we interpret these negative correlations?

Blaming gun manufacturers for the behavior of those that purchase these tools defies any logic. Alcohol producers are not liable for what occurs when people drink to excess. Big Tobacco? Car Industry? All of these products result in more deaths than those "caused" by guns by orders of magnitude. If reducing death is the prime directive, alcohol, tobacco, and animal protein should logically be banned or at least severely regulated.

As I mentioned up-thread, I grew up in a region saturated with firearms, white-trash racists, and radicalized, pissed-off young black men. These folks fought like badgers, rioted, and blew up the local college gym in the name of racial hatred. Despite all of that, they never went out to their trucks and turned readily available guns against each other.

What has changed? The mindset of teenage males. What has occurred that causes them to overreact and murder people over being "bullied" or marginalized (and what adolescent male in the history of the world has never felt bullied or marginalized?)?

1) A lack of substantive interaction with strong adult personalities who
could teach them how to deal with their feels and how to become a man.

2) Thousands of hours of committing extreme violence and causing thousands of virtual death that has absolutely zero emotional cost or commitment. "First-person shooter" video games are the emotional equivalent of the simulators used to train pilots. No sane child could kill so many real animals "for fun".

Beating a Dead Horse. I am done.



Not quite. If all children had experiences and a parent like this:

http://vocr.sri.com/herson/climbing/tr/ebec.html,

it would not matter how many guns and how much ammo they had access to.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Its not the video games. Its more along jgill's line of thinking, imo.

America is an Empire. In every sense of the word. It needs absolute military dominance to survive. It needs soldiers for that military.

Spartans, lend me your ears..... the things you think it takes to be a man? They were foisted upon you by a society of chickenshit sobnsabitches who are perfectly happy for YOU to fight their battles for them, but they don't 'do' the military themselves.

Then they'll give you a speech about firefighters and plumbers and all their other service folk, by way of defense.

Whatever. But the machine needed virtual fighters and lo, first person virtual war games were born. Who do you think wrote V1?

DMT
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 23, 2013 - 09:36am PT
America is an Empire. It needs absolute military dominance to survive.

Hate to tell ya, but, it aint just AMERICA. Not at all.

Ya'll make this whole wanna be a killer with a mighty weapon thang a new found mindset within our species.

Sorry to tell ya'll but it has been in the twinkling eye of young human males since that first club was picked up and used to beat the living shet outta of another human.


A long long time ago.



The concept of the club just evolved as did the species.


Is it an excuse. Not at all. Just a genetic natural instinctual fact that flows through our humanoid blood. As it does with so many other species that roam this planet.


Next time you go on one of your "international" maintenance trips DMT, I suggest you volunteer to go to the Congo, Somalia, Tripoli, Cairo, Damascus, Baghdad or even Kabul.
GLillegard

Social climber
Oregon
Oct 23, 2013 - 11:03am PT
It takes a individual to use a gun. It doesn't matter how many or what type of gun is set before you. An individual has to make a choice to pull the trigger. The fact is that in today"s society more individuals are willing to pull the trigger in circumstances that would have been Taboo in past times. The number of individuals committing these acts is still small in a general population of 300 some odd million and almost exclusively male.

Mark Grubb's thoughts above are a good synopsis of some of the influence's.

Humans love visual multimedia stimulation and a video game where you have the opportunity to violently and graphically kill individuals played over and over for hours, in the mind of the 1% of impressionable individuals has to have an effect on their moral values. Choosing to murder someone is after all a moral decision.

I find it telling in regards to the base nature of humans, that even folks on this forum who voice anti gun opinions also crave their weekly dose of "The Walking Dead" a tv show who's whole theme is interpersonal conflict and unending images of humans, being headshot. But they're zombies right? Could this show have been aired in years past when our society wasn't as comfortable with graphic violence? Even Dirty Harry didn't get to show his 44 magnum exploding that punks head.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
And these school shootings were unheard of. WHAT has changed?

Population density. Violent crime rates correlate with population density. Easy access to guns results in more serious consequences from violent crime.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
BS wes. EASY access to guns was in the sixties and 70s-- which was MUCH easier to get guns. Try again.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
He didn't say 'easier.'

It is easy to get guns. I can drive to Cabelas across the Nevada state line and walk out with an arsenal, easy as cash on the counter.

DMT
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
Ron, wtf man. Seriously.. PLEASE pull your head out of your ass and learn to read.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Cabelas in Nevada can't / won't sell you any guns if you're a California resident, Mr Milktosat. You can only legally buy a gun in your state of residence.
GLillegard

Social climber
Oregon
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
You would have wasted your gas DMT. You cannot receive a gun over the counter in Nevada as a California Resident from Cabelas. If you want it now you would have to go to a private sale. If your going to comment on the law, best to know what it is.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
NV can sell guns to CA residents, but the transfer of the weapon has to go to a licensed dealer in CA first, then to the customer. At least i think thats the way it currently is.

And Wes recent murders around here include places like FERNELY- hardly a POP center as it were.

What you say about major population centers is correct- in that they all have a ghetto or low income area in which gangs flourish.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
You're right, Mr Anderson.

You can buy the gun in Nevada, but you won't be able to take it home with you. You'll have to take delivery of it at your local gun shop, after being shipped from Nevada to California. Subject to all California waiting periods, background checks, legal specs, etc.
dhayan

climber
los angeles, ca
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:53pm PT
i bet the gun companies are the same companies making the bulletproof white boards...
Tami

Social climber
Canada
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
When I joined the NRA over fifty years ago their magazine might have as a cover a beautiful Parker shotgun on a nest of autumn leaves. Fast forward to current times, with a nasty AR-15 on that same bed of autumn leaves. Look inside. Ads showing hunters wearing camo and boonie caps, even occasionally dark smudges on faces, carrying assault-type flashlights and weapons (not firearms). We live in an increasingly militarized nation, with many Special Ops wanna-be's, including lots of law enforcement. And then Bill O'reilly has as a special guest the SEAL sniper who wrote a best seller and became a national hero. I'm not criticizing the late gentleman - he saved many American lives and we should be thankful for his bravery and skills. But it's all part of an emerging picture of America that makes me uneasy.


.....interesting.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
I would HOPE so DHayan.. You dont want RONCO making those do you?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:01pm PT


"Answer to the gun problem"...

There is NO "Gun problem"...

There is a PEOPLE problem!!!...

;-)

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
Booom.. Answer is correct!^^^^^
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:03pm PT


Out of a thousand tries...

I'm bound to hit one!!!...

;-)

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
like me- the blind sow that finds an acorn now and then..;-)
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
Close all schools. That will fix the problem.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:14pm PT

The problem can't be with the guns, as guns don't shoot people by themselves (Usually!!! LOL!)...

;-)



EDITED:

Nature is on to something with the idea of closing schools...

But I think it would be better to just eliminate stupid people...

Global cleansing...




NEXT EDIT:

Start with the Republican Politicians (Not the Republicn public in general as they are all just totally misinformed and super ignorant)...



Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
And am I racist to point out that there seems to be a trend of BLACK YOUTHS killing white people?

Yes.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Here we have a trend as well involving NON whiteys. That isnt to say whitey doenst do his/her share. But the trend is definite and obvious.




We have always had our "lowlifes" whom choose violent means to live . But now, we take on other countries low life- like those from 3rd worlds. Having a KNOWN gang population in the hundreds of thousands is JUST ABSURD.
What is the CRIPS body count these days?? How bout MS13??
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
The problem can't be with the guns, as guns don't shoot people by themselves (Usually!!! LOL!)...

Yeah, and the meth problem can't be blamed on the drug, as meth doesn't smoke itself.


But now, we take on other countries low life

ah yes, NOW we take them on... a convenient answer designed to fit into the mental void possessed by all right leaning uneducated wannabe tea bag sniffers.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:24pm PT


"and the meth problem can't be blamed on the drug, as meth doesn't smoke itself."...

Believe it or not, you're 100% correct!!!...

People start out with issues that take them into the world of drugs...

It's NOT the drug itself that makes a person CHOOSE that path...

;-)



EDITED:

My son and Daughter have been exposed to Meth MANY times...

Neither CHOOSES to use them...

and yet METH is still prevalent...

hmmm...

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
If your going to comment on the law, best to know what it is.

Fair enough.

DMT
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:31pm PT
It's NOT the drug itself that makes a person CHOOSE that path...

Not true. If meth had undesirable effects on people they would not choose that path. The drug absolutely influences the choice. Obviously it also requires the participant.

Guns have the property of making violent impulses easier to express. They absolutely influence certain people's choices to commit heinous crimes.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:32pm PT

"Not true"...



BEFORE you even take that first hit, SOMETHING has lead you to that path...



EDITED:

"If meth had undesirable effects on people they would not choose that path"...

For many, many, many, MANY people, METH does in FACT have UNDESIREABLE effects...

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
Jesus.

And if meth didn't have the properties so many find appealing, nobody would choose to continue down that path.

And if guns didn't make it infinitely easier to kill people, nobody would choose guns as their tool of destruction.


Sure, people will get addicted to substances... or snap and have violent episodes. Would you rather they have easy access to coffee and weed, or meth and heroin? Would you rather they swing their fists or a baseball bat or a pipe, or spray bullets into a crowd with an AR-15?


Saying guns aren't the problem because there will always be people who choose to commit violent crimes is ridiculous. Easy access to guns is precisely why there are so many firearm deaths in this country. It ain't rocket science.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:46pm PT

;-)

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
Wes,, if overnight all guns were made illegal, ONLY and i mean ONLY- law abiding citizens would give them up. What a perfect storm that would be. And you might consider the fact that when CCW laws come into effect in a given area, the crime has gone down.
Binks

climber
Uranus
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:03pm PT
Gun control is desperately needed. Only the NRA lobby and the bought and paid for politicians keep it from happening when the vast majority of American support it.

My wife is a teacher, so these stories hit close to home.

I really don't care about your right to carry a gun when my family is endangered by it in my opinion.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:04pm PT
YOur family has NEVER been endangered by me carrying my gun. NEVER.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
Ron, your fantasy world(s) are obnoxious to say the least. Guns aren't going to be made illegal overnight. How about you try reality for a change?

Currently background checks take about 30 seconds. Don't you think we could do a bit better? Maybe check mental health records? Local LEO reports? The technology exists. I KNOW we can do better.

Currently you can buy 1 new gun a month. The vast majority of guns used in crimes come from straw purchases, likely from folks who buy 1 gun a month. Honestly, who the fuk needs to buy 1 gun a month? I don't know anyone who buys more than 1 gun about every 5 years.

Stop playing your fantasy game of slippery slope strawman tea bagger and start finding some middle ground. Learn to make compromises for other members of society... god knows we all make compromises for you and your kind.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
i would LOVE to see a thirty second "back ground " check..The last one i went through took 45 minutes.. How about the parents of kids taking all manner of brain reacting drugs just act like parents, and get those kids in line like parents in the sixites did. Without sooo much as an asprin.

Lord knows we all pay for that eh?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:23pm PT
ah yes, because growing up in the 60's is just like growing up today. So there isn't a gun problem... the problem is with the Rx drugs? Right! How many people are murdered with Ritalin each year?

I've known plenty of crazy fukers in my life. I guarantee easy access to guns makes them far more dangerous, regardless of guns.



It may take you and your fellow geniuses 45 min to fill out the paper work, but it only takes 30 sec to do the actual background check.

The FFLs will provide the descriptive information requested on the ATF Form 4473, which is required by law to be completed and signed by every prospective firearm transferee. The FFL will receive a response that the transfer may proceed or is delayed. This response is typically provided within 30 seconds.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
BAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA your google genius is showing wessie.

Obvious YOU havent purchased a gun in some time. 45 minutes i waited as the clerk waited, holding the phone, walking around waiting. That is TYPICAL. And it only takes abut 4 minutes to complete the form.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
ahhhh, poor Ronny has to wait 45 min to get his new killing machine. Poor baby... cry me a fuking river. Better yet, cry it for the parents of the victims.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
I have to wait FORTY FIVE minutes before purchasing my pistola!?

FORTY FIVE MINUTES!!!!111111111

F*#k! The world has gone to sh#t. Back in the 60s? Why, they HANDED you the gun BEFORE YOU ASKED FOR IT!!!!1111111111!!!!!11111111!!!11!!1

DMT
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
I think it's ten days in California. Which is nine days, twenty-three hours, fifty-nine minutes and thirty seconds longer than necessary.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
hey wes,, you were the one "professing" to know about gun purchases. And in fact i had to correct Dingus as well. Seems between the two of you, little or no actual knowledge of gun dealings has been exemplified.


According to you two: you can go get a gun in NV, wait 30 seconds for approval and load-er up and haul it back to CA and be back at the house in 3 hours ready to do some damage..

That of course was NYET ,, NYET,, and NYET.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
Yeah, 10 days is WAY too long, according to gun nuts who need their penis extensions on a whim.

Sh#t, it takes me longer than that to get a lumber delivery from Lowe's.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
I've never done a gun deal in my life, that is true.

A dozen countries, 48-states, neighborhoods that would make your blood crawl...



but nary a gun deal.

Admission - I have never OWNED a firearm of any kind. Its not a religious thing for me. I just never needed one.

DMT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
Ron, you would bitch & complain if the process took 30 seconds. You know goddam well that's the case...you'd rant & foam about it in a typical Repugnut way, just like most every other political issue.

You, and the rest of the gun-nutz, want to be able to do anything you want, anywhere, anytime, no matter who it might affect. And if someone complains or imposes on this, you barf out memes like 'don't tread on me'.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
last thing on earth i desire is a p*nis extension..So not sure why you equate guns to wiggies wes.. Do you need an "extension"?


and Apogee,, complaining? No i wasnt complaining, but rather setting straight the fact that it takes more than 30 seconds to get the brady check done. That is all.
Binks

climber
Uranus
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
I can't wait until most gun ownership is criminal. I'll vote for it, and tell people to vote for that. Make it like it is Canada or Australia. People get along just fine without them there and don't listen to these stupid arguments about how it would be safer if they were legal. No, it isn't safer.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
Binks you CAN MOVE TODAY! I hear its joyfull in the UK!
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
Jesus Ron, you really do have a problem with reading comprehension, don't you?

I never said "you can go get a gun in NV, wait 30 seconds for approval and load-er up and haul it back to CA and be back at the house in 3 hours ready to do some damage.."


I said the actual background check takes 30 seconds. I don't give a fuk about how long you have to wait, I'm talking about THE ACTUAL BACKGROUND CHECK... you know, where they ACTUALLY CHECK YOUR BACKGROUND. My point is, there is a lot more that should be checked and 30 seconds is a pathetically short amount of time to determine if someone should be allowed to purchase a firearm.

Jesus fuk man. I suspect you spend too much time arguing with your stuffed animals and convince yourself you are right because you usually win.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
to the store clerks,, the "background check" begins the minute they dial. That is how long it takes.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:21pm PT


"I suspect you spend too much time arguing with your stuffed animals and convince yourself you are right because you usually win."...


USUALLY???...


LMAO!!!...



Ron...

did one of your dead animals beat you at Chess again???...


EDITED:

Scratch that!!!...

I meant...

CHECKERS...

LOL!!!...



mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
right, because they are incapable of understanding what is actually being checked or how it takes to actually do the check... they just KNOW it does no good, KNOW any improvements would be useless, and KNOW they oppose it. I bet they KNOW climate change is a hoax and Obama is a foreign born Muslim too.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
Locker,, i was just playing a game..This fekkin skeewarrel is just looking at me,, trying to destroy my STOKAGE and GNAR!
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:25pm PT


For the record and ALL fuking around aside...

I am 100% FOR gun regulation and waiting periods/background checks and also 100% AGREE that they DO NOT CHECK ENOUGH!!!...

;-)

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:27pm PT


"Locker,, i was just playing a game..This fekkin skeewarrel is just looking at me,, trying to destroy my STOKAGE and GNAR!"...



We're in an oddly similar boat...

You get beat by dead animals...

GLUE takes me down...

Each of us lose to our profession...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
maybe we can get that skeewarrel on glu,, THEN we win!!Kinda like a reeses peanut butter cup.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:35pm PT

Now there's a thought...

Dead squirrel...

GLUE...

Pretty sure that's a WINNING combination...

Let's work on it!!!...



EDITED:

and there is that reeses peanut butter cup up for grabs...

Win/win!!!...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
"Corky" the GLU sniffing skeewarrel,, a new pre schooler toy by RONCO?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:39pm PT


available only at "The Walmart" of course...

;-)

StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
I think Wes made very logical point regarding facilitation. The easier you make something, the more likely it is to occur. Seems obvious, but it keeps getting trumped by the "it will happen anyway argument".

It is a people problem. But until we fix it should we just maintain the status quo and watch people die?

I accept gun ownership, but it is just too easy for wacko's to get their hands on something that was pretty much designed to take life. If making it harder saves someone's child or anyone else, I say it is worth whatever inconvenient comes with it. I think all the arm waving about people trying to take everyone's gun's away is a paranoid delusion that the NRA and gun manufacturers perpetuate at every opportunity to pump up sales. So sad that so many are so easily manipulated.

Say what you want about gun control not making any difference, I don't buy it. It has nothing to do with anyone's right to bare arms, or arm bears, it just makes sense.

BTW - The arms manufacturers plan is working perfectly. I went to get pellets for my single shot varmint rifle and heard people bitching about all the .22 rounds being sold out all the time. Hoarding going on.
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
Here is something that is not all about Ron.

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/facebook-removes-beheading-video-updates-violent-images-standards-8C11447618

Facebook removes beheading video, updates violent images standards
Alexei Oreskovic Reuters
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - Facebook Inc removed a video of a woman being beheaded from its website on Tuesday and said it would use a broader set of criteria to determine when gory videos are permitted on the site.

The move came a day after a public outcry over news reports that Facebook, the world's No. 1 social network with 1.15 billion members, had lifted a temporary ban on images of graphic violence.

Facebook said on Monday that gory videos, such as a video of a masked man beheading a woman in Mexico, are permitted on its site so long as the content is posted in a manner intended for its users to "condemn" the acts rather than celebrate them.

But Facebook said on Tuesday that it had decided to "strengthen" its enforcement of the policy.

"When we review content that is reported to us, we will take a more holistic look at the context surrounding a violent image or video," Facebook said in a statement.

"Second, we will consider whether the person posting the content is sharing it responsibly, such as accompanying the video or image with a warning and sharing it with an age-appropriate audience," Facebook said.

The change underscores a challenge for Facebook as it seeks to position itself as the go-to online destination where people share up-to-the-minute images and discuss breaking news events.

While Facebook polices its site to remove pornography, hate speech and other forbidden content, the company must also make a judgment about when certain grizzly images, such as video of a terrorist attack, are in the public interest versus being shared for "sadistic pleasure."

Facebook acknowledged on Tuesday that its previous approach, which permitted the video of the woman's killing in Mexico to remain on its site, was flawed.

"Based on these enhanced standards, we have re-examined recent reports of graphic content and have concluded that this content improperly and irresponsibly glorifies violence. For this reason, we have removed it," the company said. conditionsNewsletterPrivacy policyAdvertise

Edit:
The answer is to give Ron only the attention he has earned.

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:42pm PT


Ron...

the best thing about you here is that nothing, and I mean NOTHING alters your course and it's fuking FUNNY as hell...

I think you single handedly get more people worked up on this site than anyone else...


LMAO!!!..
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
YOu may be onto something there Locker.. Dont understand Jstans comment.

but facebook s*cks -- i wrote them a scathing letter over other pages they let remain.

I said it when i first got on the internet, that this will be magical and a devil at the same time. A 14 yr old told me about rotten dot com..
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
Ron:
How you feel about anything, how I feel about anything merits another's attention only when the reasons we have these feelings are given. Without those reasons all we are talking about is some action potentials that have occurred in some brain. A couple of millivolts. Next to nothing.


The regularity with which you cause posters on all threads to expend their valuable time reacting to you personally, says you suffer from an overweening need for attention. I am sorry you suffer from this. Have you considered discussing how it is you have come to this state? There are people on this site with an immense diversity of experience and high professional credentials.

Given the chance, we might just be able to help you.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
Jstan,, im here for entertainment. i do much work at my desk which allows me a situation easy to post. And 2/3 of those posts are responding to other people. That is due to my conservative nature on a liberal majority site i would think.
That and my parrot and doggie are a bit limited on their vocabulary here at the shop. Then there is the "sub tribe" who constantly thank me via email for posting views they agree with but would rather not enter the public frey as it were. Me,, i "aint skeert".
As for my "feelings" ,, it wasnt feeling i refrenced up thread about correcting what are gun laws here. That was just straight fact.

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 23, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Jew without a gun

http://www.seraphicpress.com/jew-without-a-gun/


Part of what he says:
"I’m reposting this series as a cautionary tale because the Sandy Hook Elementary School Massacre has sharpened the claws of the statist utopians, whose ultimate aim is to disarm law-abiding American citizens. Just as Obamacare has nothing to do with health, and cap and trade has nothing to do with so-called global warming, anti-gun laws have nothing to do with saving children’s lives. It’s just another opportunity for the left to centralize power........."

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 23, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
hey, cockmaster, thanks for posting up some of the most ridiculously uninformed fear mongering bullshit the world has ever known. We wouldn't expect anything less from you.
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 23, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
I am removing the single shot 410 shotgun from the mix. All weapons need to be confiscated, An expert user like Ron could do a lot of damage with a 410. Ron, i'l be over at noon tomorrow to confiscate your arsenal.....will a pickup truck do?
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 23, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Interesting discourse. Here's another from the "Jew without a gun" blog:
"If you outlaw weapons, as so many squishy liberals yearn to do — well then, only the state and the outlaws will be armed. Which leaves ordinary citizens at the mercy of an all-powerful government and a variety of merciless criminal subcultures."
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Oct 23, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
JD,, a prius should do! And seeing as how you can prolly kill with yur thumb, were gonna have to take those too! Worry not, im a taxidermist- and can make some fine coat hooks for you out of them..;-)

The pinch may be a difficult move after that though..
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Oct 23, 2013 - 06:11pm PT
. . . but facebook s*cks

You're way too polite, Ron. I despise FB.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 06:22pm PT


I have to admit...

Jstans response is a DOOZY!!!...


"The regularity with which you cause posters on all threads to expend their valuable time reacting to you personally, says you suffer from an overweening need for attention. I am sorry you suffer from this. Have you considered discussing how it is you have come to this state? There are people on this site with an immense diversity of experience and high professional credentials.

Given the chance, we might just be able to help you."
...


LOL!!!...

Trusty Rusty

climber
Tahoe Area
Oct 23, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
Answer to the gun problem? . . . get a bigger one.

Credit: Trusty Rusty
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 06:31pm PT

Done deal!!!...












































photo not found
Missing photo ID#326949
...

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Oct 23, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
Ugh! I had to see that, and just before dinner.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 23, 2013 - 08:56pm PT

Hot dog and beans???...

;-)

TREED

Trad climber
Gunks
Oct 23, 2013 - 09:21pm PT
Profits baby.
We have sold our soul for them.
Everywhere. Gun industry. Drug industry. Entertainment industry. Hell, we start wars to maintain our economic dominance.
Screw right and wrong. We are making billions. This is WAY bigger than the tobacco industry and we can't crush that.

What would happen if a 1980s kid had come home with Grand Theft Auto 5? Or was caught playing Killzone?

There is a reason the concept of Hell was created. Nobody buys it anymore. Me neither. Too bad.

Answer?

The culture needs to change. The "right" to bear arms needs to go away. You should have to earn that. Prove your competence. Be held responsible for your weapons. Joe American is too stupid to have guns and no morals.
Maybe in 50 years things will be better if change begins now.
Nemesis

climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
So much idiocy here. People posting on emotions and not facts or common sense. PYHOOYA's.
Nemesis

climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 10:10pm PT
In a vast majority of all these shootings, there is a common thread: The bad guy is the only guy with the gun.

jgill, I am curious how the information in your post equates to a psycho shooting up a school.

donini, exactly how do you propose the "simple" plan of confiscating ALL guns and guaranteeing that ALL of them have indeed been gathered?
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 23, 2013 - 10:12pm PT




jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 23, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
For your consideration,

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinion/local_coverage/2013/10/14_year_old_charged_as_adult_in_murder_of_danvers_teacher

14-year-old charged as adult in murder of Danvers teacher
102313ritzer02a.jpg


Colleen Ritzer, 24 yr. old math teacher at Danvers High School (Courtesy photo)

Wednesday, October 23,
By:
Antonio Planas, Fiona Molloy, Joe Dwinell, Jack Encarnacao and John Zaremba


A beloved Danvers High math teacher was found murdered in the woods near the school and a 14-year-old is charged as an adult in the slaying.

The news comes after Danvers public schools were closed down as police investigated the slaying of teacher Colleen Ritzer, District Attorney Jonathan Blodgett said today.

"She was a very, very respected, loved teacher. At 24 years of age ... it's a terrible tragedy for the entire Danvers community," said Blodgett, adding "there is no reason to believe other suspects are involved."

Danvers High freshman Philip Chism pleaded not guilty at his arraignment in Salem District Court today. He was held without bail and the judge approved his defense lawyer's motion for a mental evaluation. Chism's next court date is Nov. 22. His mother was in the courtroom as her lanky son quietly appeared before a judge.

A police report states Chism “assaulted and subsequently murdered Colleen Ritzer and disposed of her body near the high school grounds.” Police state they also have surveillance footage of Chism and evidence that was found at “multiple
scenes at the Danvers High School and surrounding wooded area."

The police report also states "Ritzer and the juvenile are known to each other from the school" and charges came after they spoke to Chism during an interrogation.

The case took a dramatic turn when the teen was found wandering north on the southbound side of Route 1 at 12:30 a.m. today in Topsfield, the DA said. Local police earlier yesterday put out a bulletin asking for the public's help in finding Chism. Police added Chism had recently moved to town from Tennessee.

The DA said they also received a missing persons report an hour earlier for the teacher who had not come home from school and wasn't answering her cell phone. She was later found dead in the woods near the high school. The DA said police also found blood in a second-floor bathroom at the high school when they went looking for the teacher at 11:20 p.m. yesterday.

The DA would not say how the teacher was killed. They have yet to divulge any evidence linking the teen to the murder.

Police said Chism was last seen about 6 p.m. Tuesday at the Hollywood Hits movie theater in Danvers. Theater manager Scott Przybcien told the Herald that Chism saw the 4:30 p.m. screening of the Woody Allen film “Blue Jasmine.”

“All we know is, he bought a ticket, saw a movie and left. It was a fairly busy day. He blended right in,” Przybcien said. “I think he just was wandering, looking for a place to hide. A movie theater is a perfect place for that. That’s what we do for a living -- forget about life for two hours.”

A high school student told the Herald today the school superintendent alerted families via a robo telephone call earlier this morning that school was canceled due to "an ongoing investigation."

"It's just terrifying," said Danvers High senior Kendall Meehan, 17. "Nothing like this ever happens in Danvers."

Mary Duffy, who lives next door to the Ritzer family in Andover, said she knew Colleen basically her whole life.

"If every family had a daughter like Colleen Ritzer, it would be a wonderful world.

"She always wanted to teach math. Her mother, I believe, is probably a math whiz," Duffy told the Herald. "She was a quiet, pleasant girl with many friends. She was just like the ideal daughter. She is. This family is a family of America, They are the ideal family, they are friendly, they are loving, close."

The 24-year-old Ritzer often used Twitter to stay in touch with her students, last tweeting two days ago geometry homework links. She also wrote on her profile: "Math teacher often too excited about the topics I'm teaching." She also shared personal thoughts, tweeting she loved the fall, coffee, ice cream and the movie "Home Alone." She would send out uplifting messages, including "find something good in every day :)."

She also offered her students emotional help after the Boston Marathon bombings tweeting: "This world is a crazy place. Love who you love and live every day. Thoughts and prayers to those affected at the Boston Marathon."

Christian Veatch, 17, a senior, was in Ritzer’s math class last year.

“She’d just joke around. I loved her class,” said Veatch. “I hate math ... But she made it fun.”

He said one day she noticed he was having a bad day, and pulled him out into the hall and talked him through it.

“We ended up talking out in the hall for like 20 minutes. I walked in the class feeling a lot better, more happy. I was ready to do my work. In 20 minutes, she totally changed my attitude. It was amazing.”

The Office of the Chief Medical Examiner is conducting an autopsy to determine cause and manner of death, the DA added tonight.

MarkGrubb

climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 11:16pm PT

Kid kills a beautiful motivating young woman and heads off to see a movie.....

Do you really want to blame such savagery on inanimate objects? Ban guns, knifes, box cutters, airliners and fists. These kids will then use gasoline, clubs, and cars.

Nothing to do with the machine.
MisterE

climber
Oct 23, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
Nothing to do with the machine.

Oh, Really MarkGrubb? Machines become machination - not just a trigger finger, gun and ammo anymore

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/grand-theft-auto-v-review/1900-6414475/
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 24, 2013 - 12:22am PT
In spite of everything we think we have achieved, we are still animals.

Are we not men?

We are Devo.....

Stupid Humans. Making a sh*t load of stuff but not getting anywhere.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Oct 24, 2013 - 02:12am PT
Nice to know I can predict the majority of arguments and responses in a gun thread before I ever even click on it. Most of the time I can guess who's saying what.

Any of you geniuses ever consider that the areas with the most restrictive gun laws have basically enacted them in reaction to what they consider to be unacceptable levels of gun violence? Doesn't look to me like it's working. And I'd bet it has more to do with the demographics and poverty rate in those areas than it does with what kind of weapons they own. They probably do more drugs too.
It's always reactive, virtually always ineffective... like putting a bandaid on a cut to try and cure the infection it caused in the bloodstream.

Blah blah blah predictable blah snarky response blah blah insult blah arrogant retort blah blah blah real fact blah denial blah anecdotal evidence blah dismissal more insults etc

Have fun with it. Hell, go play a video game. It's only simulated.
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Oct 24, 2013 - 02:17am PT
and hey.. here's another question:
HOw many anti-gunners are willing to sack up and admit they won't be satisfied until all the guns are gone?

'cause ya know, that point of view just validates the "gun nut's" fears...
Delhi Dog

climber
Good Question...
Oct 24, 2013 - 04:39am PT
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24648974
TradEddie

Trad climber
Philadelphia, PA
Oct 24, 2013 - 07:57am PT
You can't wait 45 minutes? The first gun I bought took me three months to complete the paperwork, for a .22 Remington pump action. I'm sure it's pure co-incidence that in a country of five million people, there were less than ten gun murders each year. Find the most rural, lowest population density region in the US you can, I bet it won't have a lower rate.

Te
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 24, 2013 - 10:48am PT
In a vast majority of all these shootings, there is a common thread: The bad guy is the only guy with the gun.

But in some cases the bad guy was NOT the only one with a gun. The expert sniper at the shooting range, Giffords shooting, Sandyhook, the mall shooting in Seattle. The "good guys" with the guns didn't stop the tragedies from happening.

The only absolute, 100% undeniable constant in every single one of these shootings: the bad guy had a gun.

And no sane person can argue it was difficult for them to acquire that gun... because you know it ain't. They are everywhere. You can buy one off the streets EASY (just ask Chaz). The majority of guns on the streets come from straw purchases... because it is SOOOO FUKING EASY TO DO.

Anyone who can't see that is an idiot... most likely an idiot who loves guns enough to ignore the facts.

I have guns, I like guns... but wake the fuk up... guns are just too fuking easy to get ahold of... there are just too many fuking guns in this country.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 24, 2013 - 11:20am PT


For myself, I trust all of you more than any politician. Why should politicians, who's goal in life is to gain control and power, have the guns but not any of you? Why should they have even more control over us? The Mexican government passed strict gun laws in Mexico and now gun violence is off the charts as they got them out of the honest folks hands, and currently the biggest criminals are the police and Guardia National. Gun violence and kidnappings are rampant in Mexico. Somehow the criminals find ways to get them, currently they smuggle them in form the US but tomorrow they could just as easily get them from any number of other places.

Yet when you cross the border from Mexico into Texas where guns are common in the hands of citizens, there is significantly less gun violence.


locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 24, 2013 - 11:25am PT


and if you move to La la land you can meet Peter Pan...

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 24, 2013 - 11:42am PT
Why should politicians, who's goal in life is to gain control and power, have the guns but not any of you?

Ain't going to happen. Wake up idiot.

And comparing Texas to Mexico, assuming gun ownership is what makes the difference? Christ you people are fuking dumb.


HOw many anti-gunners are willing to sack up and admit they won't be satisfied until all the guns are gone?

jonnyrig, I'm guessing there are an approximately equal number of those who want all guns gone and those who amass guns because they fear they will have to defend themselves against a tyrannical government invasion. Both sides are fuking whack jobs. Why play their game? You and I both know it is far too easy for violent jack asses to get a hold of guns and something needs to be done about that. Fuk the extremists on both sides... we can do better.


'cause ya know, that point of view just validates the "gun nut's" fears...

Really? Validates gun nut's fears? My impression is that gun nut's fears are along the lines that the government is going to take all our guns and force us to live in some kind of tyrannical socialist dystopia. Again... why play their game? It ain't going to happen. It is fuking ridiculous.

How many gun nuts are willing to sack up and admit they think Alex Jones has a valid point?
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Oct 24, 2013 - 01:47pm PT
Hmm- interesting. Most folks i,ve talkf to have been stocking up simply because they,re afraid the guns will be outlawed and thus unavailable soon. Ammo, however, they seem to think is being hoarded by the govt. Although, as with all supply and demand, its also currently hard to find because of private hoarding.

I,ve asked before and gotten almost no response- exactly where is that line the govt must cross that justifies defending oneself from tyrany by shooting at the govt? People think its a dumb question, but if thats your excuse for owning a firearm, or even any factor in it, then you better dam well be able to answer that question.
jstan

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
For those looking forward to taking on the government with a glock.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XZTZmzM-Kw


thebravecowboy

Social climber
Colorado Plateau
Oct 24, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
moar gunz is the answer, duh? it worked pretty well here:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2013/09/two-michigan-drivers-shoot-and-kill-each-other-after-road-rage-incident/
Two Michigan drivers shot and killed each other Wednesday night after a road rage incident took a fatal turn in a drive-in car wash parking lot, police said.

Robert Taylor, 56, and James Pullum, 43, were driving on a highway in Ionia, Mich., when Taylor began to closely follow Pullum, according to the Ionia Public Safety Department, based on witness reports.

The two drivers eventually pulled into the parking lot of Wonder Wand Car Wash, at the intersection of M-66 highway and Steele Street. where they got out of their vehicles and fired shots at each other, police said. The two men exchanged a total of eight to nine shots, police said.

Pullum’s mother and wife were both passengers in the Ford Taurus at the time of the incident, while Taylor, driving a Chrysler PT Cruiser, was alone, police said. No one else was injured.

The drivers were transported to Sparrow Ionia Hospital, where they were pronounced dead shortly after 7 p.m. local time, authorities said.

Police told ABC News that they cannot release information about who fired their weapon first.

Taylor had a misdemeanor conviction in 2006 for driving while intoxicated and separately for carrying a gun in the car, Ionia County Prosecutor Robert Schafer told ABC News. As a result, his concealed weapons license was revoked for three years. He eventually applied and received a new license four years later in 2010, Schafer said.

Michael Wood, the owner of the Wonder Wand Car Wash, told ABC News that he also has a concealed license permit, just like the two drivers did, but never carries a gun with him.

“It’s the strangest situation I’ve ever heard of,” Wood said. “We’ve all had altercations in road rage, but to pull a weapon?”

Wood said he knew both Taylor and Pullum and that both were well-liked in the community. In fact, an employees at his car wash was best friends with Pullum, Wood said.

The confirmed cause of death was indeed gunshot wounds, said the Ionia Public Safety Department, which is waiting for toxicology and autopsy reports to see if alcohol or drugs were involved.

Taylor’s family could not be reached for comment. A woman at Pullum’s residence said the family is not making any statements at this time.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 08:46am PT
Guns and Ammo editorial stirs the pot:


"Way too many gun owners still seem to believe that any regulation of the right to keep and bear arms is an infringement," contributing editor Dick Metcalf wrote in a column titled "Let's Talk Limits." "The fact is, all constitutional rights are regulated, always have been, and need to be."

http://news.yahoo.com/guns-ammo-editorial-controversy-203042117.html

I would post an excerpt from the column but it is a pdf download.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:21am PT
Coming up on the 75th anniversary of Kristallnacht.

Author Stephen P. Halbrook has spent years researching the Weimar Republic and has recently unearthed documents that leave no doubt that gun confiscation was a lynchpin in Hitler's plan to control not only the Jews, but the entire civilian populace as well. Registration was key.

It is always the same. The rationale is appealing.

"We can make a safer world."


Ya, right.
N/@

Trad climber
NM
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:55am PT
^safer for who is the question.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:58am PT
round up EVERY KNOWN GANG MEMBER IN THE USA some 500,000 now.. Watch as our homicides rates plunge downward after that. We have all those fema camps just waiting for them..
N/@

Trad climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
^Ron for president You want to make people responsible for their actions and not blame objects. This would be a step to actually help the problem not just feel good for doing something even if it does not work.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 7, 2013 - 12:11pm PT
In all sincerity, sometimes i feel like local LEOs just watch the gang activities to "tally" for more funding. After all, some 500K of them are KNOWN to be exactly what they are. So the fact that they are here, and they are known should lead to deportations and jails.. There ARE answers to the problems.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Nov 7, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
Answer to the gun problem is putting all people who consider guns to be a problem into a big arena and letting them have gladiator style fights.
dirtbag

climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
Anyway, we all know that guns don't kill people, God kills people.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 7, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
This mornings headlines for Reno area: Gangs tagging cars and even police units.." All are associated with the Nortrenos, a hispanic gang rooted in CA which has been here for 10 years now."

Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine Basecamp
Nov 7, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Answer to the gun problem is putting all people who consider guns to be a problem into a big arena and letting them have gladiator style fights.


You need to take the medicine. I know the voices tell you otherwise, but what you just said doesn't make a bit of sense.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Nov 7, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
In all sincerity, sometimes i feel like local LEOs just watch the gang activities to "tally" for more funding.

True dat. It is called job security. Part of the Legal/Security industry.
N/@

Trad climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
I have to strongly disagree with Ron and reilly, Every time a officer or productive citizen shoots one of the gang bangers I see pictures of them as children and am told they were such good people. I never see there gang pictures and hear about there criminal record. From what the media tells me we need more gangs not less (sips more koolaid........) This is probably bushes fault.
manemachen

Sport climber
Pinedale, Wyoming
Nov 8, 2013 - 09:07pm PT
If kids had guardians that would spend time with them instead of plunking them down in front of televisions or video games for the first 15 years of their lives, maybe they wouldn't be so angry and violent.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Nov 8, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
A couple questions:

Are there any studies that show most shooters had bad parents? Yet you seem pretty convinced the problem stems from bad parenting.

Are there any studies that show most shooters had guns? Yet you seem pretty convinced restricting gun access will do nothing.

What do you expect from a population spawned by greed-fueled religious idiots?
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Nov 9, 2013 - 08:34am PT
FACT: statistics prove the vast majority of gang shooters are atheists(1). We need compulsory church attendence.


(1) IMTSU (I made this sh#t up)
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