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Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
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Oct 22, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
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This thread has helped me realize that among my role models ("heros") are these:
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
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My mother remembers the firefall, I remember not being able to see it because it was stopped...
I also stopped climbing with someone because they decided to bring a folding saw to a local Tahoe crag. Needless to say I didn't let it leave the car.
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
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Squish,
Since you have turned this positive thread into pro-climber bashing,
Have you sent Grand Illusion, or anything close to that trad grade. No?
Well, the scared pebble-wrestling white gangsta did. Quickly.
From Joekindkid,
posts re THE tree: 80
Posts re sending an icon and benchmark of Merikan Trad clambering: 0
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
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Climbing hard is no justification for poor behavior...
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
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Well, the scared pebble-wrestling white gangsta did. Quickly. /Patrick Compton
So I may conclude,Patrick, doing G/I gives anyone the right and the authority to do anything they want to you? Even if you don't like it?
Really?
I mean really?
Wow!
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patrick compton
Trad climber
van
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
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Never said it was in any way. Way to read something into a post that isn't there at all. Really, Wow.
Isn't it sweet that the ST 'community' doesn't give sh1t that he sent a landmark trad climb, but is ready to get out the pitchforks at the drop of a Juniper?
Anyone write sponsors and say, 'hey its great this young gun (30 lol) sent a landmark Trad line? '
No? must not matter then.
Only the missteps matter. And only if they are sponsored, then we got em by the short n curlies, heheh!
BTW, Fvck junipers, they give me allergies.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
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So because I can't climb 5.14 sport my opinion about route development in my local area doesn't matter? F@#$ you man...
That is the exact attitude that results in this sh#t happening. I am being far more constructive to the cause than any of this kumbaya bullsh#t. I applaud the effort, it helps get the word out but most of this is a glaze and distraction from the proper character assassination that it should be (for kinder and everyone there). Everyone is forgetting why we are even talking about it, everyone is dismissive of the behavior of a person and those supporting him. I feel it's inexcusable, as do others. If something is inexcusable we should have no tolerance, PERIOD! The community is divided, obviously. Is the line defined by what grade we climb? in what style or where? Please enlighten me to the scope of opinions I am entitled to and what I should remain silent about based on the following.
I have climbed all my life just never very well. I can lead 5.8 on a good day, I climb trad and alpine, I have put up several undocumented moderates in the Tahoe region and enjoy these "underground" crags like everyone else in this community. Now someone please tell me what I can and cannot say based on that. What a f*#king joke... If I know it's unacceptable and inexcusable to cut down a tree out there, and I can only climb 5.8, what does that say about all of you based on the assertion that I need to climb 5.14 to even have an opinion?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
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I found it strange that everyone has an opinion on how he should be punished despite the fact that they have no jurisdiction to enforce it.
Remember that Harvard study where students re-created a jail, with some acting as guards and some as inmates? In a few days the guards were abusing the inmates. Some people just want to be the ones to swing the hammer, almost as if its a pass time.
Lets not pretend that if it wasn't joe but a 50-something 'trad' climber things would've been different. His age and the fact that he put himself out there ABSOLUTELY has an effect on how this was received.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
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I don't care how he is personally punished, or anyone else involved. I do care how the community reacts and prevents it from occurring again or, in my worse fears, keep it from becoming a normal occurrence. Being dismissive of it, is a great way to start.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
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I found it strange that everyone has an opinion on how he should be punished despite the fact that they have no jurisdiction to enforce it.
By bringing the issue into the public sphere, the punishment appears to be that of calling sponsorship into question...
... since sponsorship is only valuable for a firm if the target audience of the firm's marketing efforts support the sponsorship.
This is a form of strong enforcement; is it fair, depends.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
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GDavis, thanks for the link. I paid no attention to your pleas and read it. I agree we are all guilty to varying degrees. I suppose it's an issue of where you draw the line realitive to your impact. Some have a heavier footprint then others. Some pack their poop out, others burn their paper and bury the waste while others let it all fly in the wind.
Junipers grow ancient as sky's witness, they've taught me just how much of a flash we are as we march around in the mountains. I'm blown away by them, they are all unique individuals. It does amaze me how differently we can look at the same thing, all I can feel as a fellow climber is the shame of it.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
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Here are the top 6 ways to know if you are wound a little too tight.
6. You fail to see the humor in a situation when others do.
5. You see problems instead of solutions.
4. You find it easy to laugh at others, but not at yourself.
3. You have an over-whelming desire to be right all the time.
2. Success is more important than happiness and love.
And the number one sign that you are wound too tight.....
1. You can't find anyone to listen to your rants in person so you post them on-line.
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
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all I can feel as a fellow climber is the shame of it.
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PSP also PP
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Oct 22, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
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I posted the following on the Poor Joey thread. //EMS wrote me back and said they accept his apology. When I googled the EMS guy and JK there were numerous videos they had produced together. Sounds like they are friends and more than business partners.
After reading alot of the posts I think this is bigger than JK and that new route installs in sensitive areas can easily be destructive to the environment. When you add the lack of knowledge of the installer it is a guarenteed environmental hazard.
It reminds me of little kids building tree forts; it was really fun but we didn't know ( or think about it) that trees don't like nails.//
EMS just called me to talk about it. I told him that this is now much bigger than JK it is about what is considered before a new area is developed and what should be considered.
Most likely almost nothing is considered ; but before a new area is developed the developers should know what kind of special habitats are there , what special plants, what special amphibians etc.. At established areas this isn't such a big deal there are already trails to and from climbs but new places this is what it should be about. I have a feeling that JK is just the same as many new route setters that are not that educated about these things.
I know that this will probably be a difficult issue for the climbing community to talk about. I think it will be forced on us anyway with stiff fines for damaging sensitive habitats and area closures.
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Nemesis
climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
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How many of you people so angered about the dead tree support abortion?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Oct 22, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
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Squishy seems like he/she? would be about as much fun to hang with as the local Taliban leader.....
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squishy
Mountain climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
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As one of Joe's sponsors, we wish to reiterate our disappointment in his actions in the Tahoe area; they are not in keeping with our expectations for our athlete team or with our values as a company. We feel confident that Joe will take whatever steps necessary to make things right, in the local Tahoe climbing community and beyond.
That's better..
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jstan
climber
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Oct 22, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
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Most of my good ropes( I have a few, all never used) like Mammuts are 30 years old. Wonderful rope but when I took someone out I wanted to cross all the safe T's. So I bought one of the recent manufacturer's rope and all $200 of it was the most miserable piece of spaghetti I ever tried to handle. Never again. Have to tie 100# on it and drag it ten miles over dirt roads before it is worth pissing on.
There. I said what I really think..
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Oct 22, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
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Remember the old thread, several posters were discussing whether he should pay a fine or serve time or community service. It's natural that the discussion goes that direction because its human nature to have a need for vengeance when wronged. Someone ticked you off, they swung and you swung back. The discussion luckily has been moved to re-evaluating our own choices and self-maintenance, which you point out. That is the proper reaction to this situation, "what can we do to keep this from happening." What happens to the public whipping boy is a pointless discussion that fails to ignore bias on age, perception of character, attitude, having nothing to do with what should be considered in punishment.
Just my $.02 :/
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