Tree Incident and Environmental Responsibility

guidebook ... profits

Perhaps guidebook and article authors should start donating profits to mitigate some of their impacts.

A birch tree grows to 70ft tall and over a foot in diamiter in about 25 years here.

Yet consider that he did see another viewpoint and followed his heart, his heart that though that YOU, or should I say, US, all of us whom would follow: would benefit.

It's the responsibility of sponsors to inform their "athletes"" about the environmental and stewardship aspect of the companies "brand." It makes no good business sense to do otherwise.

The hyberbole and anger directed at JK is NOT a way to teach a lesson. Like Fire and Brimstone preaching, kids tune it out.

And what is meant by 'traditionally trained' climbers?

Kids coming out of the gym overwhelming want to boulder.

Some gyms do teach outdoor climbing and stewardship

So?? Boulderers, climbers, what's the difference?

Isn't it nice to have somebody to throw stones at?
It sure makes you feel better about yourself.

Now you can go back to Indian Creek and feel smug and sanctimonious as you ever so slowly round out the crack edges, widen the jams and pod out the placements,..

Isn't it nice to have somebody to throw stones at?
It sure makes you feel better about yourself.

Yo,

Did anyone read the interview in R&I last month about Joe Kinder? What kind of trash are they producing and furthermore, who cares what this white Ebonics loving, hip hop wannabe says or does?

Call me out, tell me I am hating but seriously, this guy is an idiot. First let me start by saying that he comes from a totally white, upper middle class background, has a college education, and never used to talk like he was best friends with flava flav. Second, besides clipping some bolts, what has this guy done to improve the climbing community or bring what we all have to others. What he represents is what is wrong with american youth today. I understand that people may choose to act however they like. I understand that it's cool to have your own style or to be different in our sport but he misrepresents what climbing is about, what he is about, and further, if he could only stand back and see himself acting like this from a distance he would be embarrassed. What gives Joe?

You say it's, "Lexus Time," yet you drive a Corolla and half of those dirty hippies in their VW's, eating organic food, would scare the living sh#t out of you on most 5.10 gear routes. You say that some, "sucka touron," backed into you at the park a while back? What makes you any different from every other "touron" who has moved to Boulder to enjoy the beautiful people? Go back to NH dude. Please let me know how, "speed and style," are the factors that matter anymore? Are you doing speed ascents of boulders in the park or something? That's really awesome Joe. When people mention speed in climbing they are usually referring to "real routes" on real mountains - Not some pile of sh#t boulder judiciously cleaned to the hilt and worked on for 2 years. Go climb a real route tough guy. And what is "style?" Does that mean you speak in Ebonics, swill shitty beer, smoke weed in your Corolla on the way to the crag? Get a life you burn out. Did you break the, "stigma" when you placed a single bolt between two 14's and called it the hardest route at Rumney? Classic big guy! It might take dedication to send 14b (40 feet worth) but two f*#king years on a boulder problem is really pretty sad. You could have spent two years throwing down on gear routes and probably made a name that way in better, "style." You mention giving back to climbing by throwing kids camps and sh#t? Are you going to teach your poor style of speaking and puffing to kids who just want to climb? Why haven't you already done it. That is what really separates the bros from the hoes as you say.

All I am saying is maybe it's time to grow up some huh? Maybe use your super human psyche and strength to do more than talk trash and sound like an idiot doing it. You parents would think it is pathetic as many of us do. It's one thing to have your own style. It's totally another style to think you are from some hood in a gang and pimpin'. You are so far from real pimping that hoes would not even take you seriously.

Stop the drugs. Start climbing real routes taller than ten feet. Stop trying to be black and grow the f*#k up. You will be happy when it is said and done.

As for R&I - stop giving press to these dickheads. Why would you even print that garbage or even allow the question, "Why are men so much better than women." Come on. You can't do better than that? There are people actually doing sh#t out in the real world beyond the spot in Boulder.

Time to go climb a 5.6 and be happy for what it is.

Yours Truly Yo,

Thad Livingston
Tuscon, Arizona

Yes, I met you at Rumney once when you were green as they come.

Well, the scared pebble-wrestling white gangsta did. Quickly.

I found it strange that everyone has an opinion on how he should be punished despite the fact that they have no jurisdiction to enforce it.

all I can feel as a fellow climber is the shame of it.

As one of Joe's sponsors, we wish to reiterate our disappointment in his actions in the Tahoe area; they are not in keeping with our expectations for our athlete team or with our values as a company. We feel confident that Joe will take whatever steps necessary to make things right, in the local Tahoe climbing community and beyond.

We believe that every mistake is an opportunity for growth and learning. With this in mind, we will be funding a new communications program in partnership with the Access Fund. The goal of this initiative is to help new and seasoned climbers alike better understand best practices when climbing and developing new routes on public and private lands.

Public whipping boy put himself in the stocks.

They must be mocked.

I wonder how many people in this thread tearing apart Joe for cutting down a tree get equally pissed off when people suggest putting in bolted belays and rap anchors instead of wrapping miles of webbing around trees in pursuit of some quixotic pursuit of "traditional" ethics. Both kill the tree, one just does it in a slower way that lets people shirk responsibility for their actions.

Only in climbing does everyone from a Noob TRing 5.6 to Alex Honnold have opions that hold the same weight.

Lance Armstrong that cheater is on the news. I hate that guy.

I never thought about the consequences and the fact that I might be destroying this living thing on Wilderness land.

DPM: A lot of climbers are calling for you to “make it up” somehow. What do you plan to do to make this right?

Joe: It will be a long time before I can simply “make it right”, but I know I have learned a profound lesson that has shaped me as a climber for the better. In that sense, I’m appreciative of the experience and I look forward to being able to influence people, in whatever way I can, to be more mindful of their impact as climbers, and especially as route developers. This world is bigger than just climbing and it feels good to have learned that.

You anonymous self-righteous internet saviors-of-climbing need to realize that being anonymous removes any legitimacy your criticism might have. If you don't believe that your opinions are worth personally standing up for, then why should the sponsors, or anyone else, take you seriously?

I look forward to being able to influence people, in whatever way I can, to be more mindful of their impact as climbers, and especially as route developers.

When I click on my profile my real name is there? complete with typos.. ;)

has earned

Personally attacking someone anonymously is another.

You want to ruin someone else's reputation, but worry that yours might take a hit if someone finds out you did it? F*#king Pathetic.

I am not going to put my full name out there without a reason, go ahead and pm me a reason and I'll pm you my name, I'd start with your own. There's lots of reasons why I wouldn't put it out in public, and none of them have anything to do with this subject.

WTF?

Please explain yourself, Roughster.

the consequences to Joe's Tree and the rest of the trees that I have mangled are the same.

all trees have different values.

The hypocrisy of this thread is funny. If you are over 30 and are reading this thread, YOU HAVE CUT A TREE DOWN BEFORE, PERIOD! It was impossible to grow up in the 70s and not have chopped down a tree unless you were both physically and mentally handicapped.

[You].. hack off branches, chop down smaller trees for firewood while out camping? All those are actions that ultimately kill a tree.