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Messages 341 - 360 of total 413 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Oct 20, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
Ron ^^^^
Collaborators share the guilt, even if silent.
The Larry

climber
Moab, UT
Oct 20, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Nothing ruins an apology more than an excuse.

Edit: at least he came forward and admitted it. Kudos for that.
all in jim

climber
Oct 20, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
^^^^^

Thanks for making my point with the continued conjecture.
briham89

Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
Oct 20, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
I've never seen so much spray in an "apology"
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 20, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
So, where is this crag? Looks excellent!

Oh, that's right, locals (or visiting sponsored climbers) only.

Judging by the rock, I have a general idea.
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Oct 20, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
Hearing this I nearly died. I had no clue and I felt completely awful.

No clue? Did not know that cutting down a live tree was wrong? I call BS.

Joe is fortunate enough to spend the majority of his life in the outdoors. He visits wild and amazing places on a regular basis and has done so for years. IMHO there is NO WAY he did not know that the tree was alive and that cutting it down was wrong. With that in mind, he flat out lied in his "apology." That tells me a lot about his character. Personally, I find it hard to forgive someone that doesn't even honestly admit their guilt.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 20, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
What?

Let's go climbing!!!! Er..... NEED A CHISEL OVER HERE!
Let's go climbing!!!! Er..... NEED A CHISEL OVER HERE!
Credit: Dingus Milktoast

DMT
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
Well, that's a far cry from Abe Lincoln's humble admission.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
Wow. So Lame to do this ....

I do hope all sponsorship is revoked.

Never let these Fu#ks go to Suicide, or we might be missing a tree.

ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:14pm PT
I don't think all had to be lost yet for the kid.
People are mostly fair.

If I was him I world offer 500 hours worth of time working on habitat reconstruction.
Works out to about 15 hours a day 7 days a week for 5 weeks.
Essentially a drop in the bucket of what many professionals give all over the world.

He could even blog about the work he is doing and be a really incredible example of honor to his sponsers.

That would be awesome. It would show that he takes responsibility for his actions and is willing to step-up to make it right. However, I doubt that will happen. He doesn't come across as that kind of a person in his writing. It doesn't seem like he is sorry, just sorry he got caught. I could be 100% wrong, but my guess is that as soon as this thread and the discussion on social media stops, Joe will go back to business as usual.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
wonder if he ever goes to the GUNKS?

He's from NH, so I'm sure he has climbed on the sweet granite that the Gunks has to offer.
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
I think he was at least trying. It's a true apology, and maybe a good start toward avoiding such "total-lack-of-thinking" choices in the future.

But was this really necessary:



I understand that I am a high-profile sponsored climber...


Are you really high-profile? If so, then here's one more thing to think about (and maybe learn from). Warren Harding was high-profile too. And when faced with a similar choice on the Leaning Tower, he left the "evil tree" intact.

Many or most of the posters here have since climbed past that tree, fearing as they did a splinter enema. This danger has since become a great tradition, a source of stories.

I've never met you Joe, and probably never will. I think that I am a lot older than you, so let me patronize you with a word of advice: What you've climbed in the past or will climb in the future doesn't matter. It's all quite forgettable. On the other hand, how you treat other people and things will ultimately matter much, much more.

I've met lots of "high profile" climbers over the years. And for the reasons described above, I've never forgotten Ron Kauk, who I met 20 years ago and have seen a few times since. He's a great climber. But I only remember some of his climbs and achievements.

What I really recall about Ron is how he treated me, an inexperienced little piss-ant, and how I've seen him treat other people and things. He's humble, kind and concerned, and I've never forgotten my encounters with him.

Are you that way Joe?
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
He's from NH, so I'm sure he has climbed on the sweet granite that the Gunks has to offer.

Let's just start calling all rock granite. Easier that way.

;-)
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:29pm PT
Good point.
cintune

climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
All trees are now officially junipers, too.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
Well, I guess you have to give him credit for finally responding and apologizing, although I agree with Canyoncat that he's still kinda not getting it. It's good that he put in a word about Ethan's role. Joe strikes me as immature and evidently just ignorant. Is he quite young? Doesn't know what a juniper is??? Little tree sure doesn't look dead in the pre-photo BTW so I call BS on that.

Joe:
As the developer of this route, I wanted to leave behind a resource for everybody,

EVERYBODY would include EVERYBODY... hikers, bikers, the great-grandchildren of those hikers, etc... not just "me-now" sport climbers.

My main goal when it comes to putting up a new route is: Will this climb be something high-quality, something safe and something that climbers will enjoy? I try to make decisions that answer those questions as best as possible.

... and when the answer to that question was "no"... this route should have never been put up.

I DO think the sponsors should be notified. No one has bad-mouthed them.. just listed the ones that employ Joe. Sponsored climbers obviously feel pressure to perform. It's the expectation of new route development and fancy photos that nurtures the mentality behind these types of fiascoes. It seems to be happening more and more lately and the gear companies have a responsibility IMO.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Public caning orta do it.

DMT
mtnyoung

Trad climber
Twain Harte, California
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
Hey Dingus, remind me, what did you do with the "Forefathers" junipers near the base of the Forefathers Wall?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:42pm PT
We all have skeletons in our closet and done something stupid in the hills. He who is without sin can beat their chest online.

I wish I lived so tightly wrapped around dogma and principles that the world was black and white. Seems like an easy way to go about business.
BurntToast

climber
CA
Oct 20, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
Anyone know what the applicable laws regulating unauthorized tree cutting are in this area?

Fines? Possible jail time? Plea bargain for public service?

Seems like a slam dunk case given the public admission of guilt.
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