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Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:19am PT
Because this thread is about the Iraq War? Or because the buck stops somewhere far from the president or the party that passed the ACA legislation?

No, Because none of you folks calling for accountability made a sound when lies, treason, torture and the murder of innocents was the mode du jour. Where did the the buck stop then? Who has been held accountable?

Now, however flawed. there is plan afoot to improve the health care of millions and to drag the US forward-Obama must be held accountable.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:22am PT
I am looking forward to the new and slightly more affordable version 2.0........Hillarycare. She might have a chance of making it work lol
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:23am PT
Where did the republicans agree or settle to what was passed? The way I read the definition of compromise is that both sides agree to a settlement. You must read it differently.

I agree to pay twenty dollars for your house, Larry.

I've made concessions, I've doubled my offer.

Why won't you agree?

Why are you not compromising?

Why are you being so unreasonable in this negotiation?

I've agreed, why can't you?



Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:35am PT
Wade Icey wrote:
Obama must be held accountable

I think history will hold Bush and the congress that voted for the Iraq War accountable.
When it comes to the current president you seem to balk at him being accountable for the down side of ACA. Should we hold him accountable for his success's but "socialize" his mistakes? Wall St sure liked that deal.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:36am PT
Dave Kos wrote:
I've agreed, why can't you?

Dave,
If I don't agree, we have no deal, no compromise. But I will respectfully agree to disagree with your definition of compromise.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:47am PT
If I don't agree, we have no deal, no compromise.

You are right, we don't have compromise. Because you refuse to compromise.

I've made concessions, and I've agreed to a price.

That's what your definition requires.

There's nothing else I can do!

There is something you can do: You can agree.

Compromise, by your definition, requires two parties to agree.

One party, me, has done their part. You haven't done yours.

You are the one who isn't compromising.



See, this is how the Republicans play.

They're tricky SOBs and they have a lot of people falling for their twisted logic. (It's possible when you have the largest media corporation in the country working for you.)

Your focus on vote count is flawed. The fact that Republicans are unified on their opposition is not a measure of compromise on the part of the Democrats. (I don't see vote counts anywhere in your definition.)

Republicans never even made a counteroffer when the ACA was being negotiated.

Remember, in the final hours before the vote, when Boehner met Obama and made his offer: "let's scrap this thing and start over" ?

Kinda like offering twenty dollars for a house.

Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:50am PT
Why should we expect compromise? We have elected a bunch of self serving politicians/ attorneys ( pond scum) that have experience in getting elected and not much else other than being out of touch with reality and what happens in the real day to day world.
As a result, we should expect a plethora of laws and increased infringement of our personal freedoms that will be financed by the hard working middle class.



Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:56am PT
Dave Kos wrote:
You are right, we don't have compromise. Because you refuse to compromise.

Dave,
I can only assume you haven't dealt much in buying or selling a house.
To paraphrase:
"I offered you $100,000 for your $200,000 house. You refuse to compromise"
Yes, and I would be a fool to compromise on your terms.
Like I say, want to buy my bridge? I will agree to a price. What's not to like?

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:23am PT
Why should we expect compromise? We have elected a bunch of self serving politicians/ attorneys ( pond scum) that have experience in getting elected and not much else other than being out of touch with reality and what happens in the real day to day world.
As a result, we should expect a plethora of laws and increased infringement of our personal freedoms that will be financed by the hard working middle class.

+11111

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:25am PT
jghedge wrote:
"Because making up my own definitions is less embarrassing than admitting to being wrong."

I have been corrected on this thread and humbly acknowleged my mistakes.
I have linked the Oxford dictionary definition of the word compromise twice. I am seeking the truth.
I'm not interested in a partisan pissing match.

Intractable partisanship is what is wrong with the Imperial city of Washington DC, where at least 7 of the 10 wealthiest counties in America surround it. Both parties are to blame. Both parties are corrupt.

Believe what you want to believe. Almost seems religious to me. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 7, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
Glad to see Obama is taking care of the ones that feed him


http://nypost.com/2013/11/07/rule-lets-unions-avoid-obamacare-tax/
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 7, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
No I am commending him for taking care of the ones that fill his coffers.

PS It is OK to engage is shady political behavior if it is for the common good lol

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Nov 7, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
Unfortunately, this is how Republicans compromise


Curt



JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 7, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
It's how the Democrats compromised, too, in the Affordable [sic] Care Act. The Democrats compromised among themselves concerning things like a public option. The corporations that paid for the Obama election and that of the Democratic Congress didn't want a public option, and enough Democratic legislators were sufficiently concerned to oppose including one. There was no compromise made to gain Republican votes.

It's still how they "compromise." The ACA has problems. Have the Democrats made any concrete proposals to fix them, or even made an offer to do so? The only "fixes" have been the executive branch's enforcement abatement -- a concept frightening in its implications for separation of powers.

While I acknowledge -- and remain firmly opposed to -- the Tea Party's demand for inflexibility, they may end up looking like political geniuses yet if the ACA rollout continues in its disastrous ways and the Democrats take no responsibility for the problems. They already face a dilemma; if they take legislative action to fix problems, they open themselves up to the criticism that they, rather than the Republicans, insisted on keeping the government partially shut down solely to protect an Act they knew was deeply flawed.

How about we quit the partisan game playing, admit the problems, and just maybe do something about fixing them?

John
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
There was no compromise made to gain Republican votes.

John,

Can you name a single Republicans that even hinted that they would vote in favor of ACA if certain changes were made?

Can you name a single Republican that was even open to compromise?

They didn't want compromise, they wanted it dead.

They wanted it dead because they thought the legislative failure would weaken Obama's chances for reelection.

The Republicans have no healthcare platform, they never did. There was no meeting them part way.

They wanted the presidency, and that is all or nothing.

Moving forward, my prediction is that the Dems will introduce legislation that will address current shortcomings in the ACA implementation. The Republicans will refuse to compromise, again, the polls will show the public is tired of their childish behavior, again, and enough Republicans will eventually capitulate and some form of the legislation will pass.

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Nov 7, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
Can you name a single Republicans that even hinted that they would vote in favor of ACA if certain changes were made?

Yes. Olympia Snowe after the public option was off the table. I'm sure there would have been many others if the Democratic leadership made the slightest effort to enact legislation with bipartisan support, but I'll ask you the complementary question. What Democrat hinted that he or she was willing to consider changes to acquire Republican votes?

John
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
What Democrat hinted that he or she was willing to consider changes to acquire Republican votes?

Almost all of them.

They didn't just hint. They compromised right out of the gate.

That's why the ACA is modeled after the Republican/Romneycare plan and not single payer.

The Democrats made a HUGE compromise from the beginning.

I think you understand this John. You are abusing the false equivalence argument.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 7, 2013 - 03:25pm PT


Then~
"If you like your current health insurance YOU CAN KEEP IT,,PERIOD!"


Now~" What i meant was IF it meets the requirements of the ACA ,, you can keep it"
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
^^^^

Sorry Ron, I edited my post.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 7, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
righto Dave..
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