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Messages 341 - 360 of total 1521 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 05:24am PT
jghedge wrote:
Yet you object to majority rule on the grounds that it doesn't offer enough compromise.

What would you suggest to allow more compromise and still retain majority rule?


You either don't state my position properly or don't understand definitions the same as I do.

Compromise: It is up to the individuals or groups involved in any issue to freely pursue compromise or not. If a majority refuses to compromise on major legislation and passes it on a pure party line vote, can that majority really be surprised when the opposition uses all means legal to block or overturn said legislation?
One point I'll make is that all major social legislation in this country was passed on a bi-partisan basis. That is why all of those programs are successfully accepted by very wide majorities. Still, the small minorities who disagree with those widely accepted programs are free to protest in any legal way possible.

Majority rule: I believe in majority rule, to the point that 51% vote to pee in the Wheaties of the other 49%. The old "Two foxes and a hen voting on what's for dinner". It seems that you don't know, remember, or conveniently forget, the origin of the Bill of Rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority

I am not stating this is a Bill of Rights issue. My only point is that no compromise was accomplished before passage by simple majority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_majority

Ain't democracy a mess? (you could call it a representative republic, but then the dirty R word is the root).
Seems you just can't always get what you want. (I should write a song about that).
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Nov 7, 2013 - 09:07am PT
KEEP bellyaching about Obama and nothing is going to change..Try directing your anger where it belongs...The insurance companies and your republicans for not coming up with a plan to make health care affordable...
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Nov 7, 2013 - 09:23am PT
^^^The republicans did come up with a plan and it's now being implemented nationally. They were the conceptual architects of the ACA which first was implemented in Massachusetts.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 7, 2013 - 09:27am PT
ACA is a full on train wreck that ran into a school bus of kids at the RR crossing. Unfortunately a bunch of the kids on the bus now have no insurance because their policies have been canceled and now their working class parents could not afford an Obamacare policy.



ACA was a campaign strategy to elect a politician. Just another underfunded and poorly implemented government program. It will fail because the idealistic younger generations ( as well as the working class) will refuse or more likely be unable to pay massive premiums required to subsidize the huge and largely unhealthy boomer generation.



Single payer will not happen in our life time. The healthcare situation will go from bad to worse. Pray for a healthy life and a quick and untimely death as it is the only way anyone that is not "rich" will avoid the clusterf**k we have voted for.










johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 7, 2013 - 09:30am PT
And again, Obama doesn't control the insurance companies,

WTF? This is his plan; should he not be held accountable?
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Nov 7, 2013 - 09:39am PT
WTF? This is his plan; should he not be held accountable?

he should get in line behind the pack of treasonous war criminals that proceeded him.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 09:57am PT
Someday I hope to buy a house from Larry Nelson:

Larry: The asking price is $200K

Me: I'd like the house for free, but let's compromise, I'll give you ten dollars.

Larry: What!?!? It's a house!

Me: Ok, I'll compromise again, twenty dollars.

Larry: Really?

Me: You aren't compromising, Larry. I already compromised twice.

Larry: Twenty dollars for a house?

Me: Larry, this is about compromise. I doubled my price, and you haven't budged. The reasonable thing for you to do is half your price. Why aren't you being reasonable?

Larry: Ok, let's split the difference, $100K

Me: Deal

Compromise in the world of Larry Nelson

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 09:58am PT
Wade Icey wrote:
he should get in line behind the pack of treasonous war criminals that proceeded him.

Because this thread is about the Iraq War? Or because the buck stops somewhere far from the president or the party that passed the ACA legislation?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 09:59am PT
ACA is a full on train wreck that ran into a school bus of kids at the RR crossing. Unfortunately a bunch of the kids on the bus now have no insurance because their policies have been canceled and now their working class parents could not afford an Obamacare policy.

Before ACA, a much larger group of kids weren't even allowed to go to school at all.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Dave Kos wrote:
Compromise in the world of Larry Nelson

Dave,
I think I am on the same page as the Oxford dictionary. Maybe write to them to correct their definition.
an agreement or settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions:
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/compromise


Where did the republicans agree or settle to what was passed? The way I read the definition of compromise is that both sides agree to a settlement. You must read it differently.
Cheers,
Larry

Dave,
I will also add that I would never sell a $200,000 house for $100,000. I might drop my price depending on market conditions or how desperate I am to sell. I am free to disagree with your price, just as you are free to disagree with mine. The deal, or compromise in your analogy, happens when both sides agree.
I will agree for you to buy my bridge, though you probably unfairly don't want to compromise.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:19am PT
Because this thread is about the Iraq War? Or because the buck stops somewhere far from the president or the party that passed the ACA legislation?

No, Because none of you folks calling for accountability made a sound when lies, treason, torture and the murder of innocents was the mode du jour. Where did the the buck stop then? Who has been held accountable?

Now, however flawed. there is plan afoot to improve the health care of millions and to drag the US forward-Obama must be held accountable.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:22am PT
I am looking forward to the new and slightly more affordable version 2.0........Hillarycare. She might have a chance of making it work lol
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:23am PT
Where did the republicans agree or settle to what was passed? The way I read the definition of compromise is that both sides agree to a settlement. You must read it differently.

I agree to pay twenty dollars for your house, Larry.

I've made concessions, I've doubled my offer.

Why won't you agree?

Why are you not compromising?

Why are you being so unreasonable in this negotiation?

I've agreed, why can't you?



Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:35am PT
Wade Icey wrote:
Obama must be held accountable

I think history will hold Bush and the congress that voted for the Iraq War accountable.
When it comes to the current president you seem to balk at him being accountable for the down side of ACA. Should we hold him accountable for his success's but "socialize" his mistakes? Wall St sure liked that deal.
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:36am PT
Dave Kos wrote:
I've agreed, why can't you?

Dave,
If I don't agree, we have no deal, no compromise. But I will respectfully agree to disagree with your definition of compromise.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:47am PT
If I don't agree, we have no deal, no compromise.

You are right, we don't have compromise. Because you refuse to compromise.

I've made concessions, and I've agreed to a price.

That's what your definition requires.

There's nothing else I can do!

There is something you can do: You can agree.

Compromise, by your definition, requires two parties to agree.

One party, me, has done their part. You haven't done yours.

You are the one who isn't compromising.



See, this is how the Republicans play.

They're tricky SOBs and they have a lot of people falling for their twisted logic. (It's possible when you have the largest media corporation in the country working for you.)

Your focus on vote count is flawed. The fact that Republicans are unified on their opposition is not a measure of compromise on the part of the Democrats. (I don't see vote counts anywhere in your definition.)

Republicans never even made a counteroffer when the ACA was being negotiated.

Remember, in the final hours before the vote, when Boehner met Obama and made his offer: "let's scrap this thing and start over" ?

Kinda like offering twenty dollars for a house.

Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:50am PT
Why should we expect compromise? We have elected a bunch of self serving politicians/ attorneys ( pond scum) that have experience in getting elected and not much else other than being out of touch with reality and what happens in the real day to day world.
As a result, we should expect a plethora of laws and increased infringement of our personal freedoms that will be financed by the hard working middle class.



Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 10:56am PT
Dave Kos wrote:
You are right, we don't have compromise. Because you refuse to compromise.

Dave,
I can only assume you haven't dealt much in buying or selling a house.
To paraphrase:
"I offered you $100,000 for your $200,000 house. You refuse to compromise"
Yes, and I would be a fool to compromise on your terms.
Like I say, want to buy my bridge? I will agree to a price. What's not to like?

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:23am PT
Why should we expect compromise? We have elected a bunch of self serving politicians/ attorneys ( pond scum) that have experience in getting elected and not much else other than being out of touch with reality and what happens in the real day to day world.
As a result, we should expect a plethora of laws and increased infringement of our personal freedoms that will be financed by the hard working middle class.

+11111

Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 7, 2013 - 11:25am PT
jghedge wrote:
"Because making up my own definitions is less embarrassing than admitting to being wrong."

I have been corrected on this thread and humbly acknowleged my mistakes.
I have linked the Oxford dictionary definition of the word compromise twice. I am seeking the truth.
I'm not interested in a partisan pissing match.

Intractable partisanship is what is wrong with the Imperial city of Washington DC, where at least 7 of the 10 wealthiest counties in America surround it. Both parties are to blame. Both parties are corrupt.

Believe what you want to believe. Almost seems religious to me. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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