Health Care changes

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Messages 341 - 360 of total 1895 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 1, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
jghedge wrote:
You obviously don't follow politics too much

The way some of us prioritize our lives, we would see that as a feature, not a bug.
I'm just looking for the truth. Too many here are blindly shouting "Hurray for my team".
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 1, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
jghedge wrote:
JUNK HEALTH INSURANCE is either being upgraded to meet current standards, or is being cancelled.

My ex-wife was making a rational decision with her catastrophic type plan when she decided not to pool her money with others for the day-to-day expenses incurred before anything big happens. She decided not to subsidize other people's routine health care. She had insurance to cover her if something really expensive were to come up.

Now those who "know better than her", of what is in her own best interests, are deciding for her.
Busybodies.
Wonderful.
jghedge

climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 12:03am PT
"She decided not to subsidize other people's routine health care. She had insurance to cover her if something really expensive were to come up."


And I simply refuse to believe that the catastrophic insurance she had didn't come with pre-existing condition exceptions, or spending caps, or limits on types of coverage. I just don't.

Like I said, the "shock and awe" over what real insurance costs isn't really over the cost of the insurance itself - it's over the extortionate cost of what the insurance covers. The cost of insurance used to be based on excluding those who needed it most, and depriving it from those who had it by dropping their coverage when they actually needed it - because it was otherwise unaffordable. Now that it isn't based on that exclusionary model anymore, maybe Americans will (finally) wake up to what a raw deal we're getting by paying twice as much for half the health care that other countries provide.


There has to be gov't cost controls on medical goods and services - health care has to be regulated like the publicly-owned infrastructure utilities are, like other countries do - or it'll take our economy down. And that situation pertained long before the ACA was enacted. ObamaCare just crystalized it.

Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Nov 2, 2013 - 12:46am PT
It is true. Suck Obama's dick as much as you want.

Unfortunately, I'm at a loss to counter such a profoundly intellectual proposition. Do you have anything remotely constructive to add?

Curt
Larry Nelson

Social climber
Nov 2, 2013 - 05:26am PT
jghedge wrote:
There has to be gov't cost controls on medical goods and services -

No doubt the healthcare system has been dysfunctional.
Should the government impose cost controls on medical schools? (That may self correct with online courses)
Taxes on lifestyle choices that may impact the system? (Climbing risks?)
New laws to restrict lifestyle choices? (Top rope only on this route)
Tort reform? Cost control malpractice insurance?
As the wish list grows, the army needed to regulate and oversee it grows.
Cost controls on the government overseers of healthcare? (Weren't middle men part of the cost problem before?)

I don't have answers, just a lot of questions. I have seen a safety culture grow in the corporate world to the point of being ridiculous, but also reducing injuries. (A pumpkin carving with kids the other day would have been shut down in the corporate world with adults doing it without cut gloves, non-cutting cutting tools, safety glasses, steel toed shoes, ergonomic chairs and tables, etc).

Riley Wyna and JEleazarian, as two examples, have made excellent and compelling points from opposite sides of the issue and I thank them for their civil contributions. Partisan hoorahs have only illustrated what's wrong in Washington DC.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Nov 2, 2013 - 06:49am PT
Consumer Reports is now part of the liberal media.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Nov 2, 2013 - 07:43am PT
We have not yet been reduced to savagery, but our incompetence increases in large groups to such a staggering extent that it often seems not to be worth the trouble. Individual geniuses can occasionally carry large groups on their shoulders, micromanaging them, terrorizing them and motivating them, the way that tribal chieftains do, but without that singular personality the whole thing collapses.

The United States government is the ultimate giant unworkable mess. It is a living cargo cult where everyone marches around following routines that are supposed to yield great prosperity, but never do. The processes themselves are broken and make no sense, but the cargo culturers of the government cannot and will not hear that. They know that the government will magically make everything work.

Because government is progress. Government is modernity. Government is magic.

The cargo culters on the islands, who once witnessed the might and power of the American military during WW2 make American flags and uniforms, they build airstrips and wooden control towers, and wait for the planes to land and make them rich. They don't understand why these things should work, but they do them anyway because that is how they remember it happening.

Our own cargo culters invoke FDR and JFK, they talk about the New Deal and the Great Society, they make grand promises and roll out big programs, and then they wait for it all to work. They don't understand themselves how or why it would work. But government is magic and the appearance of a thing is just as good as a real deal.

Build a website and it will work. Pass a law and they will come. Get a degree and you're competent.

There is no need to know how to do a thing. You don't need engineers or competent men. All you need to do is remember the great dreams of the past, listen to a few inspirational JFK speeches and then carve a computer out of wood and wait for free health care to arrive.

In cargo cult America, the food is free, the cell phones are free and the money can be printed forever because government is magic.

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com.au/2013/10/government-is-magic.html
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 4, 2013 - 06:51am PT

Update from here: my state doesn't have the first person signed up yet. The governor has announced that he has chosen to get a bunch of bureaucrats hired to print up and process written applications. The first of 7,000 apps should just be arriving now they say.

That's change. Here's to hope.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
Now the President is getting called out for lying again - his recent televised speech on health care. Don't know why he couldn't have just told the truth, we'd understand and wait. Wouldn't we? It's true, the folks taking the calls have to use the computer and it's screwed up.

http://reason.com/archives/2013/11/05/obama-relies-on-false-hope-to-sell-obama

"Obama Relies on False Hope to Sell Obamacare
Even the statement that consumers can apply for insurance without using HealthCare.gov was deceptive.

When the October launch of Obamacare’s online insurance portals went disastrously awry, the Obama administration had a handy communications strategy ready: Distract people with false hope.


On Oct. 21, as the online federal exchange system at the heart of President Obama’s health law entered its third week of widespread failures, the president gave a televised speech in which he admitted that there were “kinks in the system,” but also insisted that the exchange problems could be worked around, because the online insurance portals weren’t the only way to enroll in coverage.

“While the website will ultimately be the easiest way to buy insurance through the marketplace, it isn't the only way,” he said. “I want to emphasize this … you can still buy the same quality affordable insurance plans available on the marketplace the old-fashioned way, offline—either over the phone or in person.” The application process, Obama said, would only take about 25 minutes for an individual.

As workarounds go, it was appealing enough. It was also basically useless. The 25-minute application process he touted didn’t actually provide way to avoid the problems of the exchanges. That’s because the paper applications would eventually have to be submitted into the online enrollment system. And if the system didn’t work, then neither would the supposed workarounds.

This was not exactly a secret to the administration officials managing the Obamacare rollout. They were well aware that paper applications filled out with the help of navigators or call center workers were still dependent on the functionality of the online system. Yet the president went on television to promote the phone and paper processes anyway, reading out the toll-free call-in number like a late-night TV pitchman. Kathleen Sebelius used a similar line in Phoenix a few days later.

The reasoning behind the decision to make workarounds a focus of the president’s message can perhaps be found in newly leaked meeting notes from the Obamacare “war room.” Notes from a meeting held the morning of Oct. 11 show that when questions arose about paper applications, the discussion turned to their symbolic impact. “The paper applications allow people to feel like they are moving forward in the process and provides another option,” the leaked document says. But that additional option provided no substantive benefit. “At the end of the day, we are all stuck in the same queue.”

Similar thinking seems to have informed the decision by some navigators—individuals paid to assist with enrollment in coverage through the law—to encourage individuals to fill out paper applications. "Navigators are seeing people very frustrated and walking away,” notes from the Oct. 15 meeting say, “so they are turning to paper applications to protect their reputations as people in the communities who can help, even though paper applications will not have a quicker result necessarily."

The motivation here was twofold: to try to keep people from being discouraged, and to protect their own reputations as purveyors of help. But let’s be honest: The hope they offered wasn’t real. It was a deception designed to hide the fact that they had nothing to offer.

Six days later, when President Obama stood on the White House lawn and made the same pitch to the entire nation, that was still true. Indeed, it’s been true throughout the administration’s health law sales pitches.

The president’s promises that individuals could keep health plans and doctors were false, and his senior advisers knew it, but decided to mislead people anyway because it made for a better sales pitch. The administration’s repeated assurances that the exchange system was on schedule and on track to work were either intentionally incompetent or deliberately misleading. Obama promised the exchanges would work fine despite not having run complete system tests; multiple senior administration officials claimed they didn't have enrollment data, even though it's clear that Obamacare's overseers had early numbers in hand. On health care, the administration has never had much to offer except distraction, deception, and false hope designed to bolster its own reputation and hide the empty promises it could not keep.

With this record of evasions and incompetence, it is impossible to trust anything the administration says about the health law and its implementation. The only questions that remain are how bad it becomes, for how long, and what deceptions remain to be revealed. What, in other words, are we being given false hope about now?"

johntp

Trad climber
socal
Nov 5, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
It is true. Suck Obama's dick as much as you want.

Curt, yeah, that is a bit over the top and I am now on his NSA radar.

I don't have the time to look into the details, but shouldn't our goober representatives have done their homework before pushing this through?

I am at this point neither dem or pub. They all suck, suck, suck, suck!

I'm all for a national health insurance plan. I hate to see what jello and others are going through and am willing to pony up within reason. But Obama's plan is a turd. He just won't admit it and keeps spinning the BS.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2013 - 08:04am PT


Well, in Oregon, there are about 140,000 less people who do not have healthcare than before the law went into effect. They got their cancellation notices but nothing available to change too.

Here's NPR's take on via Hot Air: http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/05/npr-oregons-exchange-might-actually-be-doing-worse-than-the-federal-site/

Says the Oregonians bungled it worse than the Feds. I'm fully covered from before, but I feel for the folks gonna have to pay out of pocket for any major hospital visits.

By anyones yardstick, having 140,000 with less folks with insurance makes it worse than a "bad rollout with glitches" it makes it disaster. Why were people who had insurance cancelled before they could sign up on the .gov site?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 6, 2013 - 08:19am PT
The people were duped into think " THEY COULD KEEP THEIR INSURANCE PLAN"..
peladob

Mountain climber
Mason City, Iowa
Nov 6, 2013 - 08:26am PT
and the media seems to be doing BHO's damage control.

objectivity is out of style, i guess, if you are a 'news' agency.
Hoser

climber
vancouver
Nov 6, 2013 - 09:55am PT
I dont know about that.... even Fox news has pieces that agree with the rest of the sane world.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2013/11/05/insurance-cancelled-dont-blame-obama-or-aca-blame-america-insurance-companies/
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 6, 2013 - 09:59am PT
Hoser they have known for 3 years that this whole thing was a scam. They have had more than ample time to "fix" things which they didnt. For three years they knew millions would loose their coverage. And Obama knew it,, yet LIED COUNTLESS times on Natl TV to those millions of people.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Nov 6, 2013 - 10:40am PT
I'm all for a national health insurance plan. I hate to see what jello and others are going through and am willing to pony up within reason. But Obama's plan is a turd. He just won't admit it and keeps spinning the BS.

I honestly think it's way too soon to tell. The healthcare.gov website is certainly a disaster, but that doesn't mean the underlying product is bad. Obama probably shouldn't have said "you can keep your plan if you like it" but I also think that's being overblown by his critics. As others have noted, most of the plans being cancelled were "scam" type plans, collecting premiums and not providing adequate minimum coverage to policy holders.

Curt
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 6, 2013 - 10:42am PT
Curt, that ISNT being overblown.. Obama said that in EVERY SPEECH he gave on the ACA. Its recorded in compilation vids all over the tube. It was A MAIN SELLING POINT... And a LOUD LIE! We used to fire presidents for such things back when we had some ballz..
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
Nov 6, 2013 - 10:47am PT
Curt, that ISNT being overblown.. Obama said that in EVERY SPEECH he gave on the ACA.

Again, it's been well documented that the vast majority of policies being cancelled were scams. I'm not sure why anybody would have a problem with that.

Curt
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Nov 6, 2013 - 11:07am PT
We used to fire presidents for such things back when we had some ballz..

Inconvenient Fact= No president to date has been removed from office via the impeachment process.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HBRKRNH
Nov 6, 2013 - 11:14am PT
Weve been through THAT before Wade. MANY have been through the impeachment process and some left over that very "this or that" offer.

Congressmen have recently been recalled in COLO too.

How many more lies will it take for some of you??? Yes repubs lie,, but you can NOT deny the fact that obama does it on a regular basis.. You ALL heard him say RED LINE in his speech.. Today he tells us "I DIDNT SAY RED LINE" Really????
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