Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 33 of total 33 in this topic |
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 11:48am PT
|
LOL ....
|
|
Magic Ed
Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 11:56am PT
|
In the mountains there are only two ratings, either you can do it or you can't.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 11:57am PT
|
Numerical masturbation would be a better description.
Big number turns into little, limp number once the excitement dies down and someone else is in the room.
|
|
BruceAnderson
Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 12:48pm PT
|
Cue up Kalous rant somebody!
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
|
Because aid climbing gives someone the ability to force a line where a line maybe doesn't exist? It would be like a free route established with epoxied holds. Why bolt on holds to make it 5.14 when you can bolt on holds to make it 5.10 :)
A hole is a hole, right?
|
|
mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
|
Just go where there are no ratings.
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
|
I've got to admire Mt10910's ability to create controversy over climbing topics. Keep keeping us lively!
John
|
|
Rivet hanger
Trad climber
Barcelona
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 01:52pm PT
|
I don't forget batheads, a tedious book and 30 years of misticism...
|
|
TwistedCrank
climber
Bungwater Hollow, Ida-ho
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 02:07pm PT
|
There are aid ratings?
Who knew?
|
|
Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 02:18pm PT
|
get up there and change them.
|
|
The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
|
French free.
|
|
The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
|
Nylon jugs.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 03:11pm PT
|
I used to post like mt, I got better.
...mostly
lol
|
|
j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
|
Bolt ladder =A0
40' slab falls from microhooking above 20 year old Z-macs = A3+
Deeply trenched leadheads every 18 inches = A6+
Lol.
|
|
The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
|
Slack! Take!
|
|
The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
|
When life gives you aids, make lemonaids.
|
|
Mungeclimber
Trad climber
Nothing creative to say
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
|
LOL!!!
|
|
JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
|
Roper's Green Climber's Guide to Yosemite Valley had an interesting rating for the expanding flake traverse on the Sentinel West Face. The Red Roper Guide rated the pitch A5. He reasoned in the Green guide that it could be rated either A1 or A5, depending on whether the climber popped. I think he settled on A4, IIRR. If I carry that logic a little farther, every pitch should be rated either A3 or C3, depending on whether or not it's hammerless, since there's always the possibility that the leader falls.
That might add a bit of otherwise lost adventure.
John
|
|
squishy
Mountain climber
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 07:21pm PT
|
Aid climbing is a tradition, the classic way, it's done as a ceremony to those before, not like it's something new to push the limits. You guys are looking at it from the wrong perspective. If you want to talk ratings and pushing the limits then go talk about hard free, sport and trad climbing. Warren Harding pushed aid routes up forced lines, new aid climbers do the same thing. Who cares? If pushing lines up blank walls ain't your thing, go do something else. And trying to rate such a thing in the 1st place is an exercise in futility after such routes were free climbed. The lamest thing here is watching aid climbers talk about rating like they matter to their chosen means of ascent in the 1st place.
Aid climbing is climbing by any means possible, upward progress at the expensive of all ethics (save for siege tactics). So how can you rate it at all? One dude's technique with a cam hook may be another dude's pecker dream. Seriously? Just rate it as an aid climb and let those who follow figure it out on their own, in this way we fully embrace the ceremony it is and honor those we respect who came before and pioneered it to begin with.
It's not like the ratings tell me jack about what I need to bring these days, old A routes are now C and then there's all the suggestions of gear to take, some people still carrying hammers. Yeah, I can totally gather all that from an A3 rating. What happens these days is people show up in the valley, go to camp 4 and ask a ton of people, then they go over to the shop for the crap they need for the route. Do they care what it's rated? No, they care whether or not they have the specific tools for the specific route. Rate that.
|
|
Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
|
Aid ratings are just as subjective as free ratings. So what's the problem?
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 07:48pm PT
|
Boy....I could go on about ratings both for aid and free. Bottom line....they should be considered discriptive rather than definitive. The climb offers rock architecture that you can deal with or not....the rating is a transitory number that only exists in the minds of climbers.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
|
I'm in one right now in Chengdu, China....i'll give it three stars. Shanghai for two days and then home to Ouray....getting real tired of Chinese food.
|
|
j-tree
Big Wall climber
Classroom to crag to summer camp
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 08:43pm PT
|
some people still carrying hammers.
Time to get off the blown out beaten track. Then we'll see if "some" becomes "all."
|
|
BASE1361
climber
Yosemite Valley National Park
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
|
So Donini is in a "3 star hotel" but some might consider it a 1 or a 5. Whats the old saying "It's all A1 until you fall"? Didn't Kalous drill on a Klaus route on the SA? Interesting rant but it seems like he just wanted to hear himself talk.
5.15c??? A6+ (which just answer me this : was it or was it NOT a complete hook belay? Answer Rivet Hanger? NO!!!) Why it is a "theoretical grade" asshat (courtesy of Klaus)
Might as well have a VIIII M80 5.17f, A9r/x V21. Whatever.
The one thing I learned in Yosemite is who did the FA. A Bridewell FA route it stout compared to other FA's. Similar I've never done a Klaus route and I have a feeling it might wreck my brain.
|
|
Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 09:35pm PT
|
Aid climbing happily defies the precise numerical categorization of a deeply personal experience. Amen!
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
|
It's all A1 until you fall . . .
|
|
The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2013 - 10:39pm PT
|
Yo yo.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2013 - 02:25am PT
|
Since nobody cares to type the obvious:
The difficultly of Aid routes, unlike free routes to a large extent, changes over the year, or even from season to season, for the following reasons
1. Fixed gear. It's tricky to place 8 heads in a row in some seam. If the last party leaves those heads fixed, it's easy to clip up the heads, you merely have to test them. If the last party removes them, the next party has to replace them, causing further damage to the rock, eventually leading to trenched holes and consequently, a different degree of difficulty. Either way, a route can be hard one year and easier the next year, or harder, depending on the state of fixed gear.
2. Changes in gear. Cams, then Aliens, brass offsets and such, have made what was once hard, much easier. Cam hooks and other gear as well.
3. Impact of rock damage. If it's a nailing route, the cracks get beaten into new shapes. The cracks on the Shield look nothing like they did on the first ascent.
4. Sandbagging: Happens
5. Aid climbing is weird to rate anyway since there is a focus on the length and consequence of a fall and not so much the awkwardness or trickyiness of the climbing. It might be A1 to crack jug an offwidth tucked inside a tight flaring chimney if you have a bunch of large cams to leave as pro but if you don't, it might be not only awkward, but if you fall, it's a long ride until your last gear.
Peace
Karl
|
|
ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2013 - 05:08am PT
|
Similar I've never done a Klaus route and I have a feeling it might wreck my brain.
Is THAT what happened to me?
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
|
Oct 12, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
|
When life gives u aids make lemonaids, lol. Post of the week fer sure.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 33 of total 33 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!