Park @ 140 gate and walk up to Arch Rock - ok or not ok?


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John M

Oct 5, 2013 - 01:25am PT
The original question was "ok or not ok?"

I directly gave "not OK". "Closed"

You did not like any of them and started ranting about it being "bullsh!t" "Our park" "Question authority" "Why" "It doesn't have to be this way"
"I'm like them in Washington" etc etc.

I just plain gave direct uninterpreted simple answer ....

Swish.. all net baby... all net.

Truckee, CA
Oct 5, 2013 - 04:18am PT
There's a lot of fine goddamn places in this state and country to climb that are not affected by the shutdown. Go find 'em. You wont have to look very hard.

Oct 5, 2013 - 10:25am PT
Werner, are you REALLY that thickheaded or just acting like it? I made no mistake here as you asserted. The OP question WAS whether it was okay or not. I NEVER questioned that. I actually began thinking "outside the box" and began to question "why was it NOT okay"? You seemed to get your feelings hurt just by me asking THAT question. I can see I am wasting my time trying to get a point across to you.

Like I said, get some rest, I think you might need it.

Oct 5, 2013 - 10:28am PT
JohnM, look at the posts I actually made and Werner's responses to them and you will realize it was an air ball, not a swish.

Of course, I don't expect you to because you agree with Werner and he hasn't directly answered my question yet and I don't suspect he ever will.

Oct 5, 2013 - 10:54am PT
The only true Master I know fights the title for all he is worth.
John M

Oct 5, 2013 - 11:22am PT
Werner's comments reflect the pervasive mentality among people who work for NPS that this is not our Valley. We are allowed to visit when they say, but ultimately we're like children in the kitchen -- supervised at all times for our safety and protection and that of the dishes

Nope.. Werner is just being practical. The park is closed. If you do go in, you risk arrest and fines. That has been his point all along. Way too many people have been encouraging people to go climb in the park by saying things like "its okay". Werner is just giving a clear warning that there is a risk.

He never responded to Pseudomaster. ( can't call him master because I see no mastery in him ) Why didn't he respond to Pseudomaster's question of "why". Because that wasn't the original question and arguing with someone like Pseudomaster is pointless, plus it muddies the water for those looking for practical beta. Psuedomaster just argues because he wants to argue. Plus Werner was likely partially yanking his chain by only answering the original question of the thread.

If you want to ask" Why is the Park closed", then that is a different question then the original question and has multiple levels.

Khanom, would you risk your job and home to stand up to the powers that be in Washington over something like a park closure? Its sucks and Werner and I have both said that it sucks. Werner has no power to change what they are doing in Washington and to expect him to stand up to them is just plain mean because it is foolish. You want change? then you have to look deeper then Werner's response that the park is closed. He isn't even the park superintendent. He just works for SAR.. On this forum we respect SAR, but in the politics of the park, they are peons. They have very little power to effect anything but search and rescues. They effect no other park policy. So you are asking someone with little to no power over the closure to go to their slaughter over something that will be resolved in a few weeks. What does that say about you?

Did you go to the "Occupy Yosemite" event in the meadows? Did anyone here? Some are asking Werner to risk his livelyhood and his home. What are they risking? Sneaking into the park is not the same.
Roger Brown

Oceano, California
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Well said John,
Why can't some people figure this stuff out on there own. Of course they have to control access. What is it, 10-20 thousand visitors a day during a normal October? There is no money to pay the workers so they were sent home. There are no bathrooms, no one to empty thrash cans, no one to keep tourons from driving in the meadows or parking in the street blocking traffic. Without some kind of control, the tourons would destroy our park in no time. It is not the rangers, or the NPS, or the president. It's Congress. Our Congress. We voted them in and we can vote them out. Those that come on here, talk sh#t, call other people names, while hiding behind a phoney name, probably don't even vote.

Oct 5, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
If you want to ask" Why is the Park closed", then that is a different question then the original question and has multiple levels.

No kidding! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM ASKING AND HAVE BEEN ASKING! And he has never addressed it. I give up.

Oct 5, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
I give up.

Good. Thank you.

John M

Oct 5, 2013 - 12:58pm PT

I addressed part of the "why" of why does the park service close the park on another thread. Roger Brown just gave a synopsis just above your post. I will just add that maybe you know how to leave no trace but most humans don't. The park services mandate is to protect the park from those people. They also have the mandate of creating access. So it could be argued that staying open is necessary for them to fulfill their mandate. But then lots of government entities are not fulfilling their mandates because Congress has shut off their funds and if they do anything but spend money on only absolutely necessary items, then they can face serious consequences.

Most people don't know how to "leave no trace". That is the simple answer.

Sonoma County
Oct 5, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
I don't really see why werner has to answer your WHY question.

Can't anyone answer that or give their opinion?

Why do you think the park is closed, master?

His responses make perfect sense to me.

you're barking up the wrong tree here, me thinks.
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