Park @ 140 gate and walk up to Arch Rock - ok or not ok?

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Messages 1 - 56 of total 56 in this topic
le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 2, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
Grrrr. What's the straight dope here. Can I park outside the 140 entrance and hoof it up to Arch?
WBraun

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
It's closed. Not OK

That means everything inside the park boundaries.

What part of closed do you guys not understand?

If someone gets hurt then you call sar for participating in a closure area?

You will will be completely hosed and the fines exorbitant.

No one one likes or wants this total fubar here but we have to live with it.

Resources are at rock bottom minimum to deal with anything.

That's why it's closed .......
susan peplow

climber
Joshua Tree, CA
Oct 2, 2013 - 09:27pm PT
^^^ Exactly, thanks Werner! ^^^

We have local bandits in JTree asking similar questions. Just move along people, nothing to see or do here..........for now anyways.

le_bruce

climber
Oakland, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 2, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
God damnit, Braun.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
Oct 2, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
It will be open again someday. In the meantime we can go elsewhere.
Werner is stuck with the skeleton crew and I hope that it does not turn epic due to the usual idiots.

I love the Valley in October, and have plans, but it looks like we are gonna switch to SoYos unless this Shutdown gets fixed.
TrundleBum

Trad climber
Las Vegas
Oct 2, 2013 - 10:57pm PT
I empathize with all the employees and the BS they will have to deal with, but...

Then again, I guess 'Public lands are not Public' at all are they ?

This time the National parks.

Then it will be all BLM land.

Then just good ole 'Martial Law' !

I say it's time to put the reigns on Washington and the FED in general !
Federal level politicians live a lifestyle few of us will ever know and They do this off tax revenues and corporate lobbyist money
(a polite way to say bribes!).
All the while they get very little done other than bickering and deliberating over new scenarios to bolster the coffers of their corporate pimp's pockets !

If I got paid what Senator or Congressman made, relative to what they produce, then I would get paid $182.67 for every bolt I nutted up !
Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:01pm PT
Werner,

Are you personally allowed to climb while the park is closed?

John M

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
Not even supposed to go hiking.

During the 95 closure things eased up after about a week, but right now the rangers seem to be taking it serious.
TheMaster

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:37pm PT
Utterly stupid to say we can't go in to OUR park! I don't need a ranger babysitting me while I am there. I do fine in the backcountry and in FS/BLM lands. Why should NPS be different?

What part of "public lands" don't they get?

With all due respect Werner and Susan, I don't NEED the resources available in the park. I can do fine without them. If the shutdown means closed VC's and crappers, I am fine with that. If the shutdown means they don't trust me in the park without a ranger to babysit, I am NOT okay with that.

Utter B.S.

Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
Climbers think they are special...
Juanito

Social climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:42pm PT
I'm hearing that people are able to drive into the valley so long as they don't get out of their cars. Supposedly only the roads to Glacier and Mariposa are completely closed. Is this true? If so, is this just until all the campers are pushed out? How are they enforcing this?

Fritz

Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:53pm PT
The Republican people that are closing down our Public lands don't want those lands to be under: "Government-Control."

Please!

Think about what happens when our climbing areas are owned by "Corporate America"


-------whose managers don't think that climbing is a "profit-center."
Brock

Trad climber
RENO, NV
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:55pm PT
So I guess they are not rounding up all the backcountry hikers either? Man, I think of all the climbs in the middle of no where I've climbed and in complete knowledge of no help if I get into trouble. So how does closing Yosemite to a complete self contained climber/hiker effect anyone? Go for it. Guess they will try to fine you so they can pay for the days they are not getting paid too.
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
If you can't find a way in untooled, you don't belong there.
John M

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
I'm hearing that people are able to drive into the valley so long as they don't get out of their cars. Is this true?

Sort of true. You can only drive partway into the valley. Most traffic is sent back out at the El Cap bridge.

Check out Tom's report. The first pic shows one of the check points.

http://www.elcapreport.com/content/elcap-report-100213-special-shutdown-edition

WTF

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
PARKLINE IS SICK
Juanito

Social climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:06am PT
I've read in the Oakhurst paper that Tioga road is open. You can still enter from Oakhurst, drive into El Cap Meadow and then head over the pass. I wonder if you can drive from El Portal to Oakhurst via the Valley or do they force you over Tioga?

Just thinking out loud, but you could get someone to drop you off and then pick you up later when you're done. Just grab your backpack or haul bag and go!
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:10am PT
who would respond to SAR at Parkline?
WBraun

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 12:20am PT
Parkline is inside the park boundaries.

This isn't about sar, me or you.

I gave an honest answer to the original question.

It's up to you people to be responsible.

If you end up being irresponsible and stupid then you'll eat the repercussions of those actions if you get caught.

It's that simple .......

Chim-Chim

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:03am PT
Well stated master. so all federal lands are closed cuz the babies in congress can't act like adults. Unnecsesarry amenities. what if you go overland don't need a road to tell you where to go, Kibby Lake area perhaps, and climb a rock. And yer Busted?... Stupid Americans , I'm calling Bullshyt. You can climb at the Leap, camp just bury your dooky doo. Why can you do that there, but a national forest within the Park System is off limits? Bullshyt Come to Woodfords where you can camp for free, climb where and how you like. No rangers, no baby sitters though, Aka Sar. If you get into trouble you must be self reliant though, something lawyers who cause most problems would dread Werner's correct stupid Americans This land your this land is my land from Californis etc... Mother fkers. Not irresponsible to go climbing if that's what you want to do. "Ordinary people just go climbing" W.B.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:07am PT
Master, you should absolutely go climbing in the Valley tomorrow. Better yet, get hurt there.


"Think about what happens when our climbing areas are owned by "Corporate America"
-------whose managers don't think that climbing is a "profit-center."

+1.
+10.
+$100.
Chim-Chim

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:09am PT
Yeah, Riley. This isn't Nazi Germany, civil disobedience while we still can is the answer before we're totally screwed. Werner did you get furloughed too? Or are you packing an A.K. now.
Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:11am PT
National Parks and National Forests are not the same and will be operating under rules regarding the closures of facilities, pay for employees, and how those impact management of the lands...

... more frequently than not, Parks can close gates and limit access more readily than Forests.
Chim-Chim

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:18am PT
Todd that may be a law but like all legislation, it may be shyt it can be rescinded. Much like Obamacare or Roe Verses Wade etc.... Shyt I say shyt
Chim-Chim

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 01:49am PT
Answer required.
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Oct 3, 2013 - 02:45am PT
Currently, it's a rock just like any other rock as far as I'm concerned. The government can take away the perks like bathrooms and rescues but THEY CANNOT TAJE IT AWAY. It belongs to the people not the government.
F*#k anyone who says orherwise
Lovegasoline

Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Oct 3, 2013 - 03:18am PT
F*#k anyone who says orherwise

It appears that the federal government more or less controls the climbing scene, and hence the climbing culture, in the United States. With the push of a button in Washington the federal government can shutdown the climbing in America.
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Oct 3, 2013 - 06:41am PT
where can i get a ranger uni?

gonna chop the locks on the entrance booth and collect 12 bucks a car,


should be able to bag about 1000 bucks before the tazer boys show up,

climbers get in free, if they have weed,


TheMaster

climber
Oct 3, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
Fritz, don't be an idiot. The Democratic administration is the one ordering the closing of public lands.

Werner, why is there even a "get caught" in the conversation? I understand that there aren't services and readily available SAR and that is a risk I am willing to take, but I shouldn't be restricted from being there at my own risk.

Well said Riley, it IS our duty to enter these places now. I plan to.

Apogee, bite me. You are just as big an idiot as Fritz.

Kalimon

Social climber
Ridgway, CO
Oct 3, 2013 - 10:56pm PT
Ophir wall is open folks . . . no fools and no tools. Might be a bit cold tomorrow though.
WBraun

climber
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:48am PT
Werner, why is there even a "get caught" in the conversation?


It's closed to all recreation and that includes climbing.

Not my idea and I have nothing to do with it either.

I'm just telling you since you're so dense. (Just plain stupid)

Do what ever you "think" you need to do.

It's your choice .......
bergbryce

Mountain climber
California
Oct 4, 2013 - 01:54am PT
i didn't choose to have diarrhea this evening
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Oct 4, 2013 - 02:34am PT
butt plug?

































blue?
Rhodo-Router

Gym climber
sawatch choss
Oct 4, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
What Michelle said.

Figure it out.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Oct 4, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
So .... Lets look ahead say 10 years.... with O-Care firmly in place and giving the health care we all need...

and some president, who ever, whatever party in power and some minority party say- 40%- won't go along with "majority" ....gets the government to
"SHUTDOWN"... gasp!

It won't be your Nat Park lands getting closed. It will be the HOSPITAL that is shut down. With armed tools standing outside, to keep you locked out.

Wake up people.
TheMaster

climber
Oct 4, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
Werner, you STILL didn't answer my question. You keep saying the same thing over and over. Why is it off limits and closed? Does not need to be even without services and rangers around. Do you EVER question the orders you are given?

Thank you for the compliment, by calling me "stupid" it shows that you are just as dense as the yahoos that closed the parks.
WBraun

climber
Oct 4, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
Because it's CLOSED. Are you really that dense??

I'm not stopping you from anything! I didn't make the rules you retard!

You have a brain? If so use it.

I can't do anything here either.

I'm in the same boat you are, as are thousands of others also.

God you really are stupid.

If you want to interpret it any way you want then do so.

You already did a long time ago anyways.

It's your choice and free will.

Unbelievable a guy like you can't even think ......

T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Oct 4, 2013 - 11:47pm PT
One strategy might be to approach Tuolumne from east slope via 120 - have somebody drop you off with a bike, stash it, climb something, then coast back down Tioga.
TheMaster

climber
Oct 4, 2013 - 11:52pm PT
I asked:
Why is it off limits and closed?

Werner answered:
Because it's CLOSED. Are you really that dense??

And Werner thinks I am dense? Unbelievable. He just accepts the fact that it is closed and can't even entertain the thought that it doesn't HAVE to be closed. I understand that it IS closed. I just can't get him to understand that I am questioning the "why"? Oh well, waste of my time I guess.

I guess Werner must be stressed out. Maybe I shouldn't be arguing with him.

Sorry about that Werner. You are probably a good guy. Peace.
WBraun

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:12am PT
Why?

Because you made the original mistake.

You're TheMaster and you don't know?

What kind of master are you anyways?

TheMaster

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:14am PT
I don't see where I made "the original mistake" but that's fine, think what you wish.

I have made my point.

Peace.
WBraun

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:24am PT
I don't see where I made "the original mistake"

I already knew you would say that before I posted that.

It will take you hundreds of lifetimes before you will completely realize the answer to that.

You will one day or a lifetime in the future ......
TheMaster

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:50am PT
Mr. Braun, you would make a lot more sense if you would answer questions directly. Instead, you ramble on making no sense and trying to sound intellectual.

Try to get some rest, you'll feel better in the morning and I won't hold my breath waiting for you to actually answer a simple question.

Good night.
WBraun

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 01:03am PT
The original question was "ok or not ok?"

I directly gave "not OK". "Closed"

You did not like any of them and started ranting about it being "bullsh!t" "Our park" "Question authority" "Why" "It doesn't have to be this way"
"I'm like them in Washington" "I should entertain thoughts" etc etc.

I just plain gave direct uninterpreted simple answer ....
Chim-Chim

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 01:19am PT
Check out the "Yosemite Castaway thread for all your answers.
John M

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 01:25am PT
The original question was "ok or not ok?"

I directly gave "not OK". "Closed"

You did not like any of them and started ranting about it being "bullsh!t" "Our park" "Question authority" "Why" "It doesn't have to be this way"
"I'm like them in Washington" etc etc.

I just plain gave direct uninterpreted simple answer ....

Swish.. all net baby... all net.
BuddhaStalin

climber
Truckee, CA
Oct 5, 2013 - 04:18am PT
There's a lot of fine goddamn places in this state and country to climb that are not affected by the shutdown. Go find 'em. You wont have to look very hard.
TheMaster

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:25am PT
Werner, are you REALLY that thickheaded or just acting like it? I made no mistake here as you asserted. The OP question WAS whether it was okay or not. I NEVER questioned that. I actually began thinking "outside the box" and began to question "why was it NOT okay"? You seemed to get your feelings hurt just by me asking THAT question. I can see I am wasting my time trying to get a point across to you.

Like I said, get some rest, I think you might need it.
TheMaster

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:28am PT
JohnM, look at the posts I actually made and Werner's responses to them and you will realize it was an air ball, not a swish.

Of course, I don't expect you to because you agree with Werner and he hasn't directly answered my question yet and I don't suspect he ever will.
Deekaid

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 10:54am PT
The only true Master I know fights the title for all he is worth.
John M

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:22am PT
Werner's comments reflect the pervasive mentality among people who work for NPS that this is not our Valley. We are allowed to visit when they say, but ultimately we're like children in the kitchen -- supervised at all times for our safety and protection and that of the dishes

Nope.. Werner is just being practical. The park is closed. If you do go in, you risk arrest and fines. That has been his point all along. Way too many people have been encouraging people to go climb in the park by saying things like "its okay". Werner is just giving a clear warning that there is a risk.

He never responded to Pseudomaster. ( can't call him master because I see no mastery in him ) Why didn't he respond to Pseudomaster's question of "why". Because that wasn't the original question and arguing with someone like Pseudomaster is pointless, plus it muddies the water for those looking for practical beta. Psuedomaster just argues because he wants to argue. Plus Werner was likely partially yanking his chain by only answering the original question of the thread.

If you want to ask" Why is the Park closed", then that is a different question then the original question and has multiple levels.

Khanom, would you risk your job and home to stand up to the powers that be in Washington over something like a park closure? Its sucks and Werner and I have both said that it sucks. Werner has no power to change what they are doing in Washington and to expect him to stand up to them is just plain mean because it is foolish. You want change? then you have to look deeper then Werner's response that the park is closed. He isn't even the park superintendent. He just works for SAR.. On this forum we respect SAR, but in the politics of the park, they are peons. They have very little power to effect anything but search and rescues. They effect no other park policy. So you are asking someone with little to no power over the closure to go to their slaughter over something that will be resolved in a few weeks. What does that say about you?

Did you go to the "Occupy Yosemite" event in the meadows? Did anyone here? Some are asking Werner to risk his livelyhood and his home. What are they risking? Sneaking into the park is not the same.
Roger Brown

climber
Oceano, California
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Well said John,
Why can't some people figure this stuff out on there own. Of course they have to control access. What is it, 10-20 thousand visitors a day during a normal October? There is no money to pay the workers so they were sent home. There are no bathrooms, no one to empty thrash cans, no one to keep tourons from driving in the meadows or parking in the street blocking traffic. Without some kind of control, the tourons would destroy our park in no time. It is not the rangers, or the NPS, or the president. It's Congress. Our Congress. We voted them in and we can vote them out. Those that come on here, talk sh#t, call other people names, while hiding behind a phoney name, probably don't even vote.
TheMaster

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
If you want to ask" Why is the Park closed", then that is a different question then the original question and has multiple levels.

No kidding! THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM ASKING AND HAVE BEEN ASKING! And he has never addressed it. I give up.
Gene

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
I give up.

Good. Thank you.


John M

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:58pm PT


I addressed part of the "why" of why does the park service close the park on another thread. Roger Brown just gave a synopsis just above your post. I will just add that maybe you know how to leave no trace but most humans don't. The park services mandate is to protect the park from those people. They also have the mandate of creating access. So it could be argued that staying open is necessary for them to fulfill their mandate. But then lots of government entities are not fulfilling their mandates because Congress has shut off their funds and if they do anything but spend money on only absolutely necessary items, then they can face serious consequences.

Most people don't know how to "leave no trace". That is the simple answer.
splitclimber

climber
Sonoma County
Oct 5, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
I don't really see why werner has to answer your WHY question.

Can't anyone answer that or give their opinion?

Why do you think the park is closed, master?

His responses make perfect sense to me.

you're barking up the wrong tree here, me thinks.
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