The minds of liberals: CLOSED!

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TheMaster

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 1, 2013 - 09:42pm PT
It is rather obvious.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 1, 2013 - 09:47pm PT

photo not found
Missing photo ID#284161
...



Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Oct 1, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
Ummmm...by definition liberals have open minds.
D'Wolf

climber
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
By definition liberals have open minds...that's just one more of their lies
Jolly Roger

Trad climber
here and there
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
Far from it. Having had conversations with all walks of life, I have found liberals to be the most close minded
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:03pm PT
They aren't liberals,

they are "progressives".
D'Wolf

climber
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Yeah, progressively more stupid as time goes on...
MisterE

climber
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
Divide and conquer - the ultimate goal of the 2-party system.

Seems to be going grandly for those in control.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:16pm PT
Can't negotiate with tea party extremists. That's why they are know as right-wingNUTS.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:20pm PT


"Divide and conquer - the ultimate goal of the 2-party system.

Seems to be going grandly for those in control. "
...


+1...

Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:21pm PT
+1 Mr, E, +1
Binks

climber
Uranus
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
redumblicanism in on it's last legs at least one can hope
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
This is how smart the Repuglicans are....http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/all-in-a-name--jimmy-kimmel-quizzes-americans-on-%E2%80%98obamacare%E2%80%99-vs--%E2%80%9Caffordable-care-act%E2%80%99-214544505.html
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
Problem is both sides forgot how to compromise and work things out. But thats ok, we put em there.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
WTF - open the pod bay doors, HAL.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
I think you are actually trying to express an opinion concerning artists...
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:32pm PT
Don't like his thoughts?


Send the IRS after him.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/oct/1/ben-carson-i-had-my-first-encounter-irs-after-pray/

What happens when you speak truth to power to a "progressive".
philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
Both sides refuse to compromise? Are you for real. Try watching something besides FuX News.
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
Operation Intercept will soon be paying a visit to TGT. Have a nice day.

Greg Barnes

climber
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
Obamacare = conservative

Universal health care = liberal....and supported by 70%+ of people in the US

Tea party = white power extremists with nothing to lose

Republican party = headed for the dustbin of history unless they cut loose the tea party
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:36pm PT
Black Power = The operation which will intercept y'all.

philo

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#323561
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:47pm PT
Nix on dat


Jolly Roger

Trad climber
here and there
Oct 1, 2013 - 10:58pm PT
Having grown up in a fairly conservative state, most of my friends fell in line with their parents thinking. They supported bush, all the while I was telling them how F'd he was and pointing out the flaws of our system. All of them have converted to indepedents and see the gov't for what it is. Through college most of the crowd I hung out with were inplants from other states and climbers. As a credo, they cherished the environment, and fell in line ad liberals. Many of whom were from liberal backgrounds. They can not be swayed one way or the other. They fall right in line with the left talking points. Much the same as many do here. They support Obama 100% no mater what. My righty friends have made big advances in their maturity, while my lefty friends seem to not progress at all.

That progress is realizing that both parties are the same, and the media is primarily liberal, and the truth has to be sought out.
Jolly Roger

Trad climber
here and there
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
Philo's post is a prime example.

Not to pick on you Philo
sullly

Trad climber
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
photo not found
Missing photo ID#323562
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Missing photo ID#323563
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Missing photo ID#323566
dee ee

Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
pathetic
jonnyrig

Trad climber
formerly known as hillrat
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:17pm PT
Personally, it looks like both sides are full of sh#t. Politics shouldn't be a career. It skews your prime directive... which, as a politician, should be representing your constituents.

But then again... if any of the political/sociological threads on the forum are any indication, I guess things are exactly as they should be.

Just as an afterthought, diversity (not the racial kind sheeple) is great... until you're so diverse there's no consensus. Then you're just f*#ked.
John M

climber
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
Jolly Roger,

I don't fully support Obama. I know many liberals who don't. What is dividing this country is easily seen in this thread. Selfishness, hatred, greed. Neither side has a lock on sainthood.

Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?

Started by a liberal

The minds of liberals: CLOSED!

Started by a conservative.

I don't see a difference in either of these extremes.

That progress is realizing that both parties are the same, and the media is primarily liberal, and the truth has to be sought out.

And yet you start out by proposing that conservative are more open minded. errr..

And you are wrong about the media being primarily liberal. On social issues it is liberal, on money issues and wars it is conservative. Whichever is needed to foster an atmosphere of divisiveness so that the people who are really in control can maintain control. Not that any of it is an exact science. Plenty of infighting among the power elite.
Jolly Roger

Trad climber
here and there
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:22pm PT
I was asked to give an example.

You seem to get it.
sullly

Trad climber
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:26pm PT
Nothing pathetic about patriotic holiday shots. Call me crazy, but these interest me more than bird shots do.
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Missing photo ID#323567
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Jolly Roger

Trad climber
here and there
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:29pm PT
I should also clarify... the media is Primarily Progressive. The same ilk that started all this. The elite. Run by same crew that brought us the Federal Reserve, and bought up contolling stake in all media. 100 years ago. Same crew, same agenda. They made their start pushing what they billed as the Progressive Movement
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
That progress is realizing that both parties are the same,

you are sure right on that!

really good observation!

Shut it down and get on the ground! Yippie!

photo not found
Missing photo ID#323570

yes, both parties are the SAME
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:36pm PT
Governments only constituents at the moment are big money...there has to be a balance between big money and the working stiffs..How's this for an idea...If the corporations paid their slaves a living wage , we wouldn't need national health care... never mind...
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:40pm PT
Ike was more modest, but ya gotta like Ike and he did warn us all.



You can lead 'em to water, but can you teach them to read?

mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:46pm PT
http://www.upworthy.com/a-senator-bluntly-says-what-were-all-thinking-about-the-awful-and-obnoxious-government-shutdown?g=2&c=ufb1
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Oct 1, 2013 - 11:49pm PT
What a strange statement. The minds of liberals: CLOSED!

Compared to who or what? Timothy Leary?

Compared to conservatives? How anyone could draw such a conclusion is not only counter intuitive but clinically wrong. This sh#t has been studied and tested to death and the over whelming conclusion is exactly the polar opposite. In fact one of the defining characterictics of liberalism / progresivism / egalitarianism is an "openness to new experience" and conversely conservativism / right wing authoritarianism is defined as "ressistence to new experience". In fact in every measurable component of right wing authoritarianism personality this trait is front and center:


F-scale (personality test)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
.
The California F-scale is a 1947 personality test, designed by Theodor W. Adorno and others to measure the authoritarian personality.[1] The "F" stands for "fascist". The F-scale measures responses on several different components of authoritarianism, such as conventionalism, authoritarian aggression, anti-intraception, superstition and stereotypy, power and "Toughness," destructiveness and cynicism, projectivity, and sex.[2] Scores acquired from the F-scale could be directly associated with background components, educational level, and intellectual capacity.[3] It is an indirect type of test that ensures the result would not be due to the individual's fake responses; this is possible because the purpose of the measurement and which attitude is being measured are initially concealed from the participants.[4] The existence of this correlation could possibly affect the way in which the F-scale accurately measures the authoritarian personality syndrome.[3] The F-Test has two principal purposes: it aims to measure prejudice and anti-democratic tendencies at the personality level.[4]

The purpose of the F-scale is to measure an antidemocratic personality structure, usually defined by authoritarianism. A score of above 80 on the F-scale test indicates that the subject may be suffering from severe psychopathology. Patients who suffer from repeated episodes of disorders usually get a higher F-scale score than those who have acute disorders. Besides, people who have a high F-scale score mostly likely have a lower educational level.[5]



The scale specifically examines the following personality dimensions:

Conventionalism: conformity to the traditional societal norms and values of the middle class;

Authoritarian submission: a passive notion towards adhering to conventional norms and values;

Authoritarian aggression: punishing and condemning individuals who don’t adhere to conventional values;

Superstition;

Power and "toughness";

Stereotyping;

Destructiveness and cynicism;

Anti-intraception;

Sexuality


So I suppose the Master has evidence and convincing argument to refute this?

Uh... apparently not:

It is rather obvious.


Hilarious! If you're going to successfully accuse libruls of anything last on the list would be close mindedness. Arn't they the retards who positively wallow in ambiguity to the point of indecisiveness? They are open minded fundamentalists! If they could ever stop considering an unending list of possible outcomes for everything they could be trusted with the task of suicide bombing - but that is so close minded that only a right wing authoritarian is fit for that job!




rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Oct 2, 2013 - 12:47am PT
Exactly...The conservatives are more open minded when they are listening to Rush Limbaugh or Fox news..
MisterE

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 02:41am PT
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Oct 2, 2013 - 03:03am PT
“Did you see the Giants game on Sunday?” he said. “They lost 31-7. Do you know what the Giants didn’t say after that game? ‘If you don’t give us 25 more points by midnight on Monday, we will shut down the f*#king NFL.’”
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 2, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
Shutdown? Looks to me like from here that things are actually running better. Maybe we just had an extra 700,000 deadwood employees on the books. Ouch.

apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 2, 2013 - 12:34pm PT
"Shutdown? Looks to me like from here that things are actually running better."


Yeah, not so much for the small businesses who depend on JT at this time of year for their livelihoods...

Our access to the Park is completely shut off- a place where the great majority of the meager incomes that guides & services depend on this time of year. This, after losing nearly half the summer due to the fires in the San Jacinto Mountains.

I know damn well that many of the small business owners who are hurting on this right now are conservatives and vote Republican. Wonder which way they'll vote in the next election...?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 2, 2013 - 12:42pm PT


"Wonder which way they'll vote in the next election...?"...

Patterns...

Very HARD to break!!!...

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 2, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
Apogee said:
..."not so much for the small businesses who depend on JT at this time of year for their livelihoods...

Our access to the Park is completely shut off- a place where the great majority of the meager incomes that guides & services depend on this time of year. This, after losing nearly half the summer due to the fires in the San Jacinto Mountains."

No doubt about it. Reminds me of the gov't asswipes who closed off the WW2 monument in Washington DC. It was outside, and they really only closed it so that people would get to feel some pain....needlessly. They didn't have to be vindictive like that. But they did. Till some old WW2 vets who had traveled a long distance moved the barricades and walked in. It's public F&&&*ing land damnit. It's not like a building or something may get stolen. Just leave it open and alone. It's about control. http://hotair.com/archives/2013/10/01/honor-flight-vets-break-through-shutdown-imposed-barriers-to-visit-wwii-memorial/

Good thing there were 2 congressmen present.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 2, 2013 - 02:38pm PT
http://washingtonexaminer.com/shutdown-overreach-more-guards-at-wwii-memorial-than-benghazi-park-service-closes-park-it-doesnt-run/article/2536710
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Oct 2, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
Why are Republicans Wrong about Everything?
Started by a liberal
The minds of liberals: CLOSED!--John M, a liberal himself

A man with a closed mind wouldn't bother to take in the thoughts of a ...
A man with a closed mind wouldn't bother to take in the thoughts of a Ponderosa, would he? Dr. F and MH and the tree in a heated debate about the park closure to come.
Credit: mouse from merced
"Open."
"Closed."
"Open during the days only?."
crunch

Social climber
CO
Oct 2, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
No doubt about it. Reminds me of the gov't asswipes who closed off the WW2 monument in Washington DC. It was outside, and they really only closed it so that people would get to feel some pain....needlessly. They didn't have to be vindictive like that. But they did. Till some old WW2 vets who had traveled a long distance moved the barricades and walked in. It's public F&&&*ing land damnit. It's not like a building or something may get stolen. Just leave it open and alone.

Leave it open and alone? It would be great if the situation was that simple and folks were that respectful:

Lincoln Memorial, a few months ago
Lincoln Memorial, a few months ago
Credit: crunch

apogee has a good point. Round here, we're just recovering from all the flooding, roads closed, local trails destroyed, most climbing areas around here closed, and now, just as the leaf-peepers usually show up to see the elks and aspens etc, Rocky Mountain National Park (which had just opened up again!) is closed.

There is a lot of wasteful expenditure in the vast bureaucracy of federal government. This is not the way to address this problem.


Bruce Morris

Social climber
Belmont, California
Oct 2, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
"This is not an age characterized by belief."

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of a passionate intensity"

 W.B. Yeats
dirtbag

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
All these stupid right wing fukks bitching about government should move to Somalia if they hate government so much.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Oct 2, 2013 - 03:49pm PT
The Somali government has just about as much credibility as our government does at the moment.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
Our Congress has zero credibility . But if you think our governmental institutions has as much credibility, or function as well, as Somalia, then you have been sucking ayn rand's tit for far too long.
dirtbag

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
No, fukk you! And Wasn't your racist ass banned?
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 2, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
dirtbag said:
"All these stupid right wing fukks bitching about government should move to Somalia if they hate government so much."

That's as stupid as saying "if all YOU dumbfukk big gov't libruls love big government so much you should move to Zimbabwe. " When are you moving ?

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0911/countries-with-the-highest-government-spending-to-gdp-ratio.aspx
Sketch

Trad climber
Langley, VA
Oct 2, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
Many liberals, especially on internet forums, are the antitheses of a true liberal. They routinely demonstrate a bigoted intolerance towards Christians and conservatives. Sure, they're open-minded and tolerant about causes and groups they support. They do like to talk a big game. But when it comes to actually being open-minded and tolerant... you know... about things/people that don't support, they can be downright nasty.

Both sides of the political fence has it's idealogues... it's close-minded zealots. It's not just the conservatives.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 2, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
"Many <conservatives>, especially on internet forums, are the antithesis of a true <conservative>."

Fixed that for ya.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
couchmaster retorted
That's as stupid as saying "if all YOU dumbfukk big gov't libruls love big government so much you should move to Zimbabwe. " When are you moving ?

http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0911/countries-with-the-highest-government-spending-to-gdp-ratio.aspx


I've always been curious about this "cash expenditure as measure of size of government" thing. If we lived in near anarchy and the government counted for 50% of GDP would that be a large government? If government expenditure was only 1% of GDP but we lived under constant surveillance and scrutiny at home with very few personal liberties would that be a small government? This seems like a device created by those who benefit the most from tax cuts to trick people into thinking that government expenditure is the only yardstick that matters while dodging the important conversations about the real reach and scope of government.

And to rebut your retort, couch, liberals don't want a an arbitrarily bigger government, they want a government that accomplishes certain goals of ensuring security, social justice and equity. Conservatives do state that they want an arbitrarily smaller government.

Plenty of liberals want the government to stop reading emails and dictating women's reproductive choices and plenty of conservatives want more government surveillance and regulation of immigration. I'm sure that can easily be put into a cartoon of an asteroid shooting at something someone get on it.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 2, 2013 - 05:57pm PT

"Reminds me of the gov't asswipes who closed off the WW2 monument in Washington DC. ... They didn't have to be vindictive like that."...



LOL!!!...

You mean like the Republicans are doing right now because they didn't get their way???...

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 2, 2013 - 08:32pm PT
Vacant may be a better descriptor than closed.

http://www.thepiratescove.us/2013/10/02/zero-tolerance-follies-8-year-old-suspended-for-using-hand-as-gun-during-game/
squishy

Mountain climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 08:33pm PT






















TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 2, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
Is Barry's caddy and massage chair essential?
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 2, 2013 - 08:47pm PT


...


Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Oct 2, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
I was the chairman of the Young Republicans in my county. I worked on two Republican congressional and two Republican presidential campaigns as a paid staffer. I served proudly in the military under Ronald Reagan and helped bring down the Berlin Wall and Soviet Empire.

I am now 53 years old and NOT a Repugnican. The GOP and Tea Party have completey lost their way. They should rename their party the "Retarded Flat-Earth Intolerant Religious Fanatics Party."

They are all a bunch of idiots, and that is not a generalization. That is a fact.
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Oct 2, 2013 - 09:00pm PT
They are all a bunch of idiots.... That is a fact.

Ah that includes them Dems and Independents as well. ALL means every last one of em.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Oct 2, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
Rich, Arrogant, and Stupid

http://victorhanson.com/wordpress/?p=6578#more-6578
MisterE

climber
Oct 2, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
Thanks, Squishy

Credit: MisterE
Binks

climber
Uranus
Oct 3, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
Peter King: 'I Honestly Don't Know' What GOP Wants From Shutdown.

ie, it doesn't actually defund the ACA, which is the law of the land.

http://news.yahoo.com/video/peter-king-honestly-dont-know-164407492.html
Binks

climber
Uranus
Oct 3, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
The amazing thing is the number of people finally turning away from the GOP over this. I'm seeing posts from die hard GOP'ers coming out against. The utter stupidity of it is finally changing even some of their most recalcitrant supporters sour. I wonder what the ripple effect politically of all the furloughed people is? As their anger will reach into their friends and family and around the country.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 3, 2013 - 03:34pm PT
Harry said:
I was the chairman of the Young Republicans in my county. I worked on two Republican congressional and two Republican presidential campaigns as a paid staffer. I served proudly in the military under Ronald Reagan and helped bring down the Berlin Wall and Soviet Empire.....

Ahaah, I was wondering how that sh#t all came down. I was off f*#king off by then and not paying that much attention. I thought it was cause they nearly bankrupted themselves via their actions overseas, like in Afghanistan while overcommitment to a bloated government and domestic programs, exactly like our country is doing now.

Thank you for taking down the wall BTW. I've knocked some concrete down in my day and know how difficult it is, especially when they rebar the hell out of it. Especially if there happens to be a crapload of loud boisterous Germans swilling Hauffbrau and singing Deutchland Deutchland Uber Allies in the background.

For myself, I've never been a repub although I'll admit to occasionally (pretty rare actually) voting for one here or there. However, I still won't call you nasty names for your political stance like some of the democrats on this board.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Oct 3, 2013 - 03:41pm PT
What are you a master of?
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Oct 4, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
The amazing thing is the number of people finally turning away from the GOP over this.

I abandoned the Repugnican party back when W was the President. He was the first one who led the party astray.

These current antics of the Cry-Baby party are not unexpected. I can't understand how such retards could ever get elected. What's even more scary are the retards who elected them. They're friggin' AMERICANS!!!

I thought it was cause they nearly bankrupted themselves via their actions overseas, like in Afghanistan while overcommitment to a bloated government and domestic programs, exactly like our country is doing now.


It's well known that Reagan's arms race of the 80s was what pushed the Soviet empire over the edge. The Russians were truly worried about Reagan and the USA, and they pushed a lot of rubles into their inefficient military-industrial machine to keep up with the perceived threat.

If you weren't paying attention perhaps you didn't really appreciate the magnitude of the Reagan build-up. Being part of Reagan's build-up, I can tell you that it was UTTERLY MASSIVE. The Soviet response was equally as massive (and frightening).

Back in the 1980s we all thought that it was just a matter of time before the Soviet economy collapsed, but we never though that we'd ever actually see it in our lifetimes.

tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 4, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
LOL, imagine they decide to "shut down" the police...what will anti-gun nuts will do when thugs start looting? Will be quite an eye and mind opening experience. Especially after they slash tires.
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Oct 4, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
The Polish people were also instrumental. It was multifactoral. But it was the massive arms race that put cracks in the Soviet empire and allowed everything else to happen.

What the Polish did, and what Solidarity did, is something that Poland can be very proud of. I've always wanted to visit Poland to meet these people. I had a trip to Poland planned for this past summer but I couldn't get time off from work. ):

EDIT: I reiterate that we knew back in the 1980s what the arms race was doing to the Soviet empire. We could see it happening in real time. It's not some post-Cold war analysis, it's something that was common knowledge back in those days.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 4, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
Back in the 1980s we all thought that it was just a matter of time before the Soviet economy collapsed, but we never though that we'd ever actually see it in our lifetimes.

It had already collapsed internally by that time, due to massive infiltration of "shadow", illegal, underground "economic sector", led by big mafia leader, high communist official and future Azerbaijan leader Aliev. (had not so much to do with arms race. It was simply that the shadow capitalist sector got hungry enough and acquired critical mass allowing them to take over). Soviet economic collapse was 100% ENGINEERED. Infrastructure was intact, but connections were cut off literally overnight, by disrupting (fully government-controlled) financial system and removing all control over industries, transport, etc, which was fully government-implemented and necessary to keep it all functioning, overnight.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:24am PT
And by the way, USSR had stood much harder before collapse than US now. US will experience either outright economic collapse or a full slide into being lawless 3rd world banana republic with labor cheaper than in China, within next 10-15 years (the games in DC are only meant to extend the life support for extra few years).
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:29am PT

"the rich get richer and the poor get poorer."...

Too true!!!...

Dr. F.

Trad climber
SoCal
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:38am PT
raymond phule
climber

Oct 5, 2013 - 07:46am PT
It is interesting how the people that are the most closed minded once all the time claim that it is everyone else that is closed minded. Projection?

And interesting that the most misinformed by the right wing media say that both sides are the same, both sides are to blame, both sides are completely sold out.

I don't see the Democrats shutting the Government down by extortion!
You want to change Obamacare, then you makes changes through the legislative process, not by gunpoint

Every problem tioga and the other right wingers here grip about has been implemented by Conservatives, not liberals.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:44am PT
"tioga" is a right winger? What heroin you're on?
I remain a member of Communist Party, technically.
shows how idiotic and closed-minded these "pseudo liberals" are...
"liberals" == "liberty". No liberty in US liberals, for the most part.
But yes, it's also true about "divide and conquer"--was my first thought after being exposed to dual-party system. More efficient than one-party control system. Instead of locking up dissidents, one can convince poor souls they're doing something effective by jumping parties.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:46am PT

"I don't see the Democrats shutting the Government down by extortion!
You want to change Obamacare, then you makes changes through the legislative process"
...

EXACTLY!!!...

The current Republican Party is an absolute ANTI AMERICAN JOKE!!!...

couchmaster

climber
pdx
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:57am PT
tioga, I appreciate hearing others viewpoints and your honesty as well, even when I don't agree with them. Always nice to have a spirited debate with all sides examined. tioga stated:
"I remain a member of Communist Party, technically. Shows how idiotic and closed-minded these "pseudo liberals" are..."

LOL, so true. They typically resort to name calling on this site as they don't have the brains to support their case (dirtbag and mechrist come to mind). But isn't the definition of truly small minded people die-hard communists who supported Stalin? There are still some in the former USSR who believe in him you know.

PS, do you live overseas or in the states? I'm curious.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Locker/Norton
2016

photo not found
Missing photo ID#324023
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 11:58am PT
Btw, 'Bammer reminds of Gorby...
Good 'ol economic collapses like to start from massive "reforms"
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:03pm PT

photo not found
Missing photo ID#324025
...

tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
One difference between communist health care system and Bummercare is that in the US you'll have to pay explicit fee if you opt out and explicit fees to enroll--and you have to do that, under the new law. In communist system, the fees were implicit and unlisted, while being deducted from every person's paycheck. Under Soviet communists, though, the majority of population qualified as "middle class", while in the US there's less and less of it...more and more of rich vs. poor. So, if you're a US middle class person you'll have to bear unfair burden under Bummercare. Also, communist health care system did not have deductibles, under 0 deductible and all 100% covered principle, unlimited hospital stay, etc. Real world healthcare is very cheap--in the US artificially inflated by criminal medical and pharma mafia. It's kind of like, say, you want to take Physics in the US college. The system tells you: you have (required) to pay $120 for the new edition of Physics textbook--while $15 old edition contains exact same info. This is how they operate here.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
My understanding so far is that you have opt out and pay, or buy insurance.
If you say it's not true, according to the actual law, I'd be happy to hear that. But I hope proving this doesn't require taking your case all the way to Supreme Court.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:17pm PT


"The system tells you: you have to pay $120 for new edition of Physics textbook--while $15 old edition contains exact same info. This is how they operate here."...

Not just here...

Taking advantage of people exists World Wide...

Manimal

climber
SLT, Ca
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:17pm PT
If your are honest about it, there are idiot kool aide drinkers on both sides of the aisle (as is evident in some of the previous posts). Conversely there are solid thinkers on both sides too. The reality is that none of us is solely liberal or conservative and this team mentality is anathema to an open exchange of good ideas. Try not to see everything through a lens and open your mind to good ideas no matter what the source. And, let the facts speak the truth they hold. Don't deny them for keeping the team's face. Ban the teams. It's not a football game, it's life we are actually negotiating.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Basically, the strategy is to fatten, poison and sicken the population (Monsanto, etc), insure and make money off all that. The insurance companies and medical and pharma industry will get great profits. Plus, more lab rats for human subject research... great stuff. Healthcare management and records processsing (outsourced to India) will get great profits too--bigger, fatter bribes for DC/local governments. Everyone wins.
In the meanwhile...worthless service economy generates nothing to pay for the care....engineering workforce is being destroyed locally...overinflated living standards...wait for the end of it all. In its current state, US is the least equipped to implement stuff like bummercare....
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:36pm PT
^Ignorant, trash-spewing lowlife like you does not deserve response from me.
Go, disappear, bye. Example of liberal-wannabe troll. I don't read or respond to idiots' personal attacks, which reflect their education level. You type your insults online... in person you'd be wagging tail like a little chihuahua coward. Anyway, ignored from now on.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
Speaking of medical system--since USSR had been brought up in this thread...
THE Doctors that worked in their healthcare system continued to provide care, holding themselves to the highest professional standard, through all stages of Union collapse. While not receiving pay, not having food to eat, they continued to provide high quality care for their patients, sacrificing their comfort, safety in many cases. NOT like the entitled, fattened off high profits, semi-professional, in-human, cold and greedy body-processing personnel that dominates US healthcare (with exceptions, of course). Before you fund them, ask what you're funding.
What a jump from THE Nurses (or Doctors) who walked 1000s of miles pulling wounded under the bullets from the battle field during WW2 in Europe, etc, receiving no profits...to the current US fat cats.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:45pm PT


"^Ignorant, trash-spewing lowlife like you does not deserve response from me.
Go, disappear, bye. Example of liberal-wannabe troll. I don't read or respond to idiots' personal attacks, which reflect their education level. You type your insults online... in person you'd be wagging tail like a little chihuahua coward. Anyway, ignored from now on."
...



Of course the above response COULD be viewed as a DODGE to Nortons question...

Hmmm...

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:50pm PT
If your are honest about it, there are idiot kool aide drinkers on both sides of the aisle (as is evident in some of the previous posts). Conversely there are solid thinkers on both sides too. The reality is that none of us is solely liberal or conservative and this team mentality is anathema to an open exchange of good ideas. Try not to see everything through a lens and open your mind to good ideas no matter what the source. And, let the facts speak the truth they hold. Don't deny them for keeping the team's face. Ban the teams. It's not a football game, it's life we are actually negotiating.

This makes entirely too much sense.
(Libertarians aren't team players)
sullly

Trad climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:54pm PT
Norton, why not lay off Tioga? She seems to have an impressive sci./engineering background and grew up in the USSR. Plus she's female with a guns blazing technique. How often do we see that here on ST?

Too many women seem to see that their sole duty here is to give written hand jobs to male posters. I spit on them (in my head at least).

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 12:57pm PT


"hand jobs to male posters"...

Put me down for three please!!!...

dirtbag

climber
Oct 5, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
Put me down for three please!!!...


Credit: dirtbag


I'm your Huckleberry, Honey.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 01:06pm PT


"I spit on them (in my head at least)."...


Please aim at your hand...

The lubrication will be GREATLY appreciated!!!...





EDITED:

Nice "Moobs"...

locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 01:18pm PT

sullly...

I actually AGREE with you and am JUST fuking around as usual...


I personally DO NOT dig complacent woman in general...(EDITED: IMHO nothing beats an independent thinking Lady with "Spit" on her hands ;-)...

I see ZERO need for ANY woman to hold back her thoughts...

tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Oct 5, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
Taking advantage of people exists World Wide...
Yes, it does. But specifically in Russia, China, India one can (at least could up to mid-2000) get a Physics, Math, engineering older textbook for few cents and use it for their class...yet (sometimes starved, financially devastated) schools produced top notch engineering professionals and scientists. No one placed ridiculous requirements to "pay up".

Now, here's one example of horrible liberal (in quotes) narrow-mindedness, witch hunting, hatred and bigotry (plastering photos of a person all over "Free" city of San Francisco...free to for hobos to sh#t on sidewalks, the only kind of freedom in that "pseudo liberal" bastion). Plastering their photos and harassing them, trying to destroy their business, because they expressed views unpopular with "liberal" majority, aka merely criticizing SF in PERSONAL blog (some of this person's views are very unpopular with me too, but why create a witch hunt?):

http://sfist.com/2013/08/19/startup_bro_apologizes_for_san_fran.php

One example of persecution of a person for their beliefs and free speech.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Oct 5, 2013 - 04:18pm PT

^^^

LOL!!!...

You FINALLY nailed a real good one and it's a beauty!!!...

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