Jornet rescued from the Frendo Spur

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 21 - 40 of total 43 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
So stop the bashing

Umm, ok, not.
johngenx

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:15pm PT
I wonder what the cost of mountain rescues is when examined in terms of all the emergency response that is performed? We respond to car crashes even though 99% are probably avoidable. Should have slowed down on that ice, etc. Firefighters respond to a house fire regardless of the reason the fire started. Again, I'm sure most fires could have been avoided.

We have decided, as a society, to band together and afford people rescue services as part of our infrastructure.

Why? It saves money. Suppose you own a house. Sorry dirtbag climbers, I know you won't identify with this analogy, but bear with me. ;-)

Suppose I want to have the fire department respond in case of a fire. I call up the local fire fighters and arrange to pay for response. But, it's really, really expensive. They have to have all these trucks and people at the ready and on and on. So, I get together with my neighbour to share the cost. Along the way, we finally decide it just makes the most sense for everyone in the town to automatically chip in a few bucks and we can all have fire response. This way we all pay, but the cost is kept very low on a per home basis.

We do this "cost sharing" with all kinds of things. Police, military, roads, water and sewage, and on and on. It makes perfect sense. Yeah, I know it's also called "socialism" and some of you might think it's evil and whatever, but in reality the best nations to live in have a TON of it, and it's what separates those amazing countries from shitholes like Somalia.

"But, he CHOSE to climb that mountain!" Sure. And all those millions of people chose to drive. They chose to live in a house made of wood with electrical wiring. They chose all those things.

When I go out, I really, really, really try to ensure that I won't need a rescue. I plan and carry gear and train and whatever else in order to be self sufficient. It's a big part of the experience to me that we have to solve our own problems. I don't count on SARS. We think "no one will come get us."

I don't like it when guys go out and cut corners and place the ability of SARS to get them as part of their plan. But, that's not enough for me to initiate a plan where rescues are user pay. In the grand scheme of our society, it's still an inconsequential amount of money and I want those services to be there in case, and I plan on it being the absolute last resort, I need them.
Deekaid

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
as per KLK post above a good one by the way, isn't there already a criteria of sorts in place? don't they fine you in Yosemite if you have to be rescued in a storm without the proper gear ?
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
if you wear spandex, then you should be well equipped, jus sayin...
Deekaid

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
you gave me a good chuckle sprock
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
It's good to know that if I slipped and twisted an ankle running up middle pal ill have Supertopo around to sh#t all over me.

If you really think he goes into the mountains thinking "oh ill just hit 911 when it goes south" you need to get off the couch.

I know. Asking a lot.
steve shea

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Maybe they did have rescue insurance. The CAF has been selling it since the 70's. I do not see any bashing. If you are in doubt about your own skills join the new AAC and purchase the rescue insurance. Todd is right. That's one very steep snow ridge and probably pretty hard by this time of the season. A deep six there would put you at the Plan de l'Aiguilles lickedy split.
steve shea

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
Good one heh heh.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
There is a simple solution. When you decide to go ultra light and start ruthlessly trimming away all that annoying safety equipment, the first thing you leave behind is your cell phone or radio. Those things weight more than a tooth brush so WTF?

Could you post this on the Matthew Greene thread? Thanks.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:37pm PT
You know damn well it's your own fault that your dick got caught in the toaster.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Sep 9, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
steve shea

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
bingo! once again, natural selection at work
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Sep 9, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
http://iancorless.org/2013/09/08/kilian-jornet-emelie-forsberg-rescued-from-mont-blanc/

A pretty good analysis of the actual events including by Jornet and Forsberg.
Basically Forsberg nearly froze to death, precipitating the call for rescue.
We estimated the conditions and we didnīt make up a plan B if we would take longer time than normal.
Useful reminder for us all.
Degaine

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 05:22pm PT
France and the US do things differently with regard to rescue. Rescues of this type are free of charge. That's the way it is, best to stop trying to look at the cost aspect through American glasses. Comments that he should pay for it really don't have their place in this discussion since that's just not how it is there.On a side note, in Chamonix (or in the rest of the French Alps for that matter), just like in Yosemite, most rescues in the summer are of hikers (often ill-equipped). Although spectacular due to the location, this type of rescue represents a relatively low percentage of rescues. Given they did not use a helicopter, probably did not cost much as well.

As to the equipment used, they clearly went too light, especially to move fast and easy on the ice section up high this time of year. That written, Kilian does have crampon-compatible running(ish) shoes:
http://www.tvmountain.com/video/alpinisme/9821-la-pepite-goulotte-aiguille-de-la-petite-verte-chamonix-mont-blanc-massif.html
Degaine

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
HT's post of EF's account does indeed get to the heart of the matter.

The PGHM would rather rescue live bodies instead of recovering dead ones, so they probably considered this call a good one (although they likely scolded Kilian for not having more gear).
steve shea

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
Rescues of what type? On foot? Maybe. I spent a long time in the Massif in the 70's. Very early on we were advised by locals to buy rescue insurance. The CAF office was the first stop in Cham for those in the know. I remember it went from about fifty to eighty USD over my time there. We were absolutely aware of French rescue costs. Things must have changed significantly. They did not say heli rescue just rescue. Also seeing helo rescues of climbers was an almost daily event not isolated at all. As a matter of fact the obit notices were posted on the Place de l'Eglise wall outside the meteo after every big weather event and the helos operated nonstop at times. The PGHM also did body evacs with the body bagged outside the bird in plain sight. Hard to miss. Then at Snells or the Biolet or the Midi pherique camping the PGHM or Gendarmerie would come in and pack up the deceased's gear. We saw this a lot. Things really must have changed. It took me awhile to ignore the helos or I never would have climbed there. They were a constant reminder of the seriousness of the sport we were involved in.

In '77 I think, not sure, there was a very tragic accident on the NF Tour Rond. The top party fell off and swept several parties below into the schrund. All were killed. It was a landmark case in France because for the first time ever a suit was brought by the families to recoup rescue costs and get money from to top group's family. Liability. It was thrown out if I remember correctly.
Degaine

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 06:09pm PT
The article (in French) says Kilian and partner were rescued on foot (PGHM walked down from the Aiguille du Midi tram's top station).

Mountaineering-related rescues represent about 20% of all rescues in the summer and 10% of non ski area related rescues in the winter. My "relatively low" statement was certainly unclear. I should have written "far from the majority of all rescues".

A lot of the helicopters/planes buzzing around both sides of Chamonix these days are sightseeing and not rescue related.

Cheers.
jgill

Boulder climber
Colorado
Sep 9, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
Otherwise it'll become boring yes

This speaks volumes. If taking a risk makes it non-boring, then rescue yourself.
Brian

climber
California
Sep 9, 2013 - 06:55pm PT
The pitches just below the top of the spur are steeper ice than the famous fin of snow leading up to the Rognon. Wouldn't have wanted approach shoes in the conditions I saw (which, I take it, were pretty typical). I mean, it's low angle ice for ice climbing; but, on the other hand, it's pretty freaking steep ice for "approach-shoeing"!

Glad they are safe. Agree with Donini that people can go for it however they wish, and also that they should not expect or depend on rescues. Also agree that people should try to be "responsible" when their actions might put others at risk (e.g., SAR, though in this case that's not really an issue).
aguacaliente

climber
Sep 9, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
It's very likely (certain?) that Jornet and Forsberg are members of one of the alpine clubs and have rescue insurance.

If you're all het up about the costs why not make it like car insurance? If you get rescued once, your premium goes up.
Messages 21 - 40 of total 43 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo Videos

Recent Route Beta