Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 45 of total 45 in this topic |
rnevius
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 7, 2013 - 11:04pm PT
|
Does anybody know who was the first person to use the word "booty" to describe found climbing gear? Climbing is the only place where keeping found gear seems to be an acceptable practice. When was the first time you heard the word?
I first heard "booty" while climbing with a reserved, older fellow when I first started trad climbing. He talked with a soothing voice, and I never heard him raise it. Until...in the middle of a lead he yells down "AHA!!! BOOOOOTYYYY!!!" and proceeded to sing a pirate song for the rest of the pitch.
Booty...is a wonderful thing.
|
|
ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
|
|
"AHA!!! BOOOOOTYYYY!!!" and proceeded to sing a pirate song for the rest of the pitch.
I didn't know we ever climbed together, ha ha
|
|
mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
Must have been some other reserved, older fellow. :)
|
|
johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
|
|
It was back in the 70's, my partner dropped his girl. I said "nice booty, mine now".
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
The Booty Rulze as I was taught them about 1982.
#1 Any gear that you leave on a climb due to lack of skill, persistance or sack is booty once you give up on retrieveing it and leave the crag for the day. You get a 12hr reprive if you announce your intentions to recover your gear but you do need to be at the base of the cliff at first light. Get drunk and sleep in will result in your gear becomming booty.
#2. Gear left due to inclemant weather or conditions is booty as a lack of skill was involved in the decisions that you made. You were not fast and strong enough to beat the weather or you made a poor decision regarding the weather or conditions.The mtn beat you and therefore your gear becomes booty.
#3 Any gear left in a rescue or accident resulting in real (not imagined) injury is not booty and shall be left at Rock and snow/IME, the Mountainere etc. to be returned to the proper partys involved. The booty game is supposed to be fun. once someone gets really hurt it is not fun anymore.
#4 If you lose booty do not be a whiny little bitch about it. Asking for your booty to be returned is very bad karma and results in a huge loss of face. If the booty hounds offer to return your lost booty and you accept you lose major face. The proper response is. " No,You keep it, you guys earned it." If they offer to return the booty and you refuse and offer to let them keep the booty and they then, insist that, "No you go ahead and take it back we have pleanty of gear." You may then accept the return of your booty gear. You will still lose some face but not too bad. At this point you need to offer them a libation to ease the shame.
The current trend of not even attempting to recover your own lost gear and headding straight home to whine and cry on the internet demanding the return of your lost booty is absolutly pathetic and shamefull!
|
|
tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
|
|
and Tradmanclimbs nails it!
|
|
whitemeat
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
|
|
speaken of booty! If yall want a blue camolot... it be on a detached flake, a very popular route, the flake resembles footware, and it is WAY up there! good luck!
ps: where have you been ryan? it seems you disapeared!
|
|
Trad is Rad
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo California
|
|
I was just about so ask the same, seems as though whitemeat beat me to it.
but seriously where have you been man?
|
|
ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
|
|
That was a great explanation tradman and is some of what led to my nickname, since I was such a booty hound.
You did forget one thing:
#5 It is mandatory once you do retrieve gear that you think might be booty to give the booty call as loud as you can (BOOTY, BOOTY, BOOTY), thus letting everyone in ear shot know the fact that you just got some booty AND giving the previous owners a chance to dispute the claim. (read #3)
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
Black velvet canyon april 1986. We camped right at the mouth of the canyon at the end of the jeep road back then. There was a stock tank w/ good water 100m from the camping area. Accoustics being the way there are in the caynon word got out that there was fixed friend @ the crux of Triasic Sands. The foot race was on in the morning. We got beat by some cali or maybe Oregon? dirtbags in an old really tiny red Honda civic. They couldn't get it and we were hot on their tails. They did leave a Nice FAT roach behind a hueco crimper on every pitch;) None of us could get the cam free but it was a great climb none the less. That evening back at camp the West coast boys declared their intentions. Back up the next day with the proper wrenches to take those Friends apart and BOOTY :)
|
|
kaholatingtong
Trad climber
Nevada City
|
|
speaking of booty... someone needs to go up bears reach with the proper accoutrements and score some serious booty right now. damn near a sport climb at the moment.
|
|
BrassNuts
Trad climber
Save your a_s, reach for the brass...
|
|
Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! Scoring booty is the best, it can turn a good day into a great day :-) The 5 rules of booty above are spot on, although several are lost among many of the younger/internet crowd fer sure. The Booty call is a must!
|
|
couchmaster
climber
pdx
|
|
The Booty Rulze @ 1982 with Ammons addition is a good list. Haha! Good stuff.
#1. Any gear that you leave on a climb due to lack of skill, persistance or sack is booty once you give up on retrieveing it and leave the crag for the day. You get a 12hr reprive if you announce your intentions to recover your gear but you do need to be at the base of the cliff at first light. Get drunk and sleep in will result in your gear becomming booty.
#2. Gear left due to inclemant weather or conditions is booty as a lack of skill was involved in the decisions that you made. You were not fast and strong enough to beat the weather or you made a poor decision regarding the weather or conditions.The mtn beat you and therefore your gear becomes booty.
#3. Any gear left in a rescue or accident resulting in real (not imagined) injury is not booty and shall be left at Rock and snow/IME, the Mountainere etc. to be returned to the proper partys involved. The booty game is supposed to be fun. once someone gets really hurt it is not fun anymore.
#4. If you lose booty do not be a whiny little bitch about it. Asking for your booty to be returned is very bad karma and results in a huge loss of face. If the booty hounds offer to return your lost booty and you accept you lose major face. The proper response is. " No,You keep it, you guys earned it." If they offer to return the booty and you refuse and offer to let them keep the booty and they then, insist that, "No you go ahead and take it back we have pleanty of gear." You may then accept the return of your booty gear. You will still lose some face but not too bad. At this point you need to offer them a libation to ease the shame.
#5. It is mandatory once you do retrieve gear that you think might be booty to give the booty call as loud as you can (BOOTY, BOOTY, BOOTY), thus letting everyone in ear shot know the fact that you just got some booty AND giving the previous owners a chance to dispute the claim. (read #3)
With the advent of the internet and new climbers who were not initiated into this thought process, it can be difficult to see the wheedling and pleading that occurs online where folks step up to beg for their gear back that they pussed out on.
|
|
rnevius
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2013 - 11:12pm PT
|
whitemean and the Hunter! I've actually moved out of SLO. I'm living in Placerville. Been climbing a lot in the South Lake area! Great rock up here. Hoping to head to the Valley in a couple weeks.
Missing SLO!
|
|
rnevius
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2013 - 02:49pm PT
|
RE: Bear's Reach being a sport climb. Made a pre-sunrise solo assault on it and spent 2 hours on the wall.
Booty recovered: 1 offset stopper, 3 regular BD stoppers, 2 TCU's (one is unusable), and a mangled #3 C4v(unusable).
That's only about 1/3 of what's up there, too...but good luck with the rest of it.
I only placed 4 pieces of my own gear on the whole route (not counting belays). It was that packed with gear. Ridiculous.
|
|
pc
climber
|
|
Sorry but this booty business is bogus...
There should be a place designated at the base or top of each climb where booty is deposited for some reasonable period of time. Gear lost and found.
If it's not recovered in that time, then fine, it's "yours" to keep.
Where else in "society" do folks profit so readily from others' misfortune?
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
Where else in "society" do folks profit so readily from others' misfortune?
Stockmarket, hospital, lawyers office, car shop, should I continue?
|
|
rnevius
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
|
Misfortune? You act like gear getting fixed is something that just happens. It's this same mentality that causes gear to get left in the first place.
It's up to the leader to place gear properly. If a piece walks...it's up to the team to get that piece out. If they give up...
At this point, I don't think it's even appropriate to ask for your gear back. If, however, someone did, I'd likely give it back.
|
|
pc
climber
|
|
Bullsh#t.
Your post is just an attempt to justify your thievery by gathering like minded folk/thieves.
|
|
rnevius
Trad climber
San Luis Obispo, CA
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Sep 9, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
|
I never even asked about the morality of "booty." The original post was mostly a history question.
Thievery? As soon as I pulled the gear, I searched multiple forums and the board at the Leap to try to find the original owners. I'd happily return it to anyone who described it to me. Based on the different marking styles on the gear I pulled, that's 4 different people. I spent a few hours on the wall getting this gear out. It was obvious from a few of these pieces that the owners simply abandoned them after a lack of effort to get them out. It's clogging up the route like trash.
Like I said, I don't believe in stealing gear. I'd return it if someone asked for it. But honestly, if it was me who lost the gear, I would have put everything I had into getting it out. If I couldn't, anyone else who could would more than deserve it. Stop trolling.
Oh wait...forgot I was on the taco...
|
|
surfstar
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
|
|
Bullsh#t.
Your post is just an attempt to justify your thievery by gathering like minded folk/thieves.
So we should leave it there like the trash it is?
How about the guy who rummages through our garbage for cans and bottles? Is he 'stealing'? Maybe I was gonna go through there and pick them out before the trash truck comes along - I mean they're my property still, right? Even though they reside in the garbage can!?!
Picking up trash [abandoned gear] is not stealing.
Oh wait, pc - I get it. You're the politically correct troll.
|
|
aguacaliente
climber
|
|
I know f-all about booty (the gear kind), but it seems to me that cleaning your gear is an intrinsic part of the climbing process, so not being able to do it is a climbing oops rather than a mental lapse like losing your sunglasses. Hence the booty ethics.
It's not like lost and found. Hopefully most agree that when you forget something in the parking lot, or even at the base of the wall, it's not booty, it's just lost and should be returned to the owner.
|
|
Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
|
|
Anyone against the "booty" ethic of climbing hasn't climbed long enough. I've found gear, and I've fixed gear only to return and found someone with more time/tools/experience got it out. Good for them! I take "booty" and try to use it to improve anchors, or in some other way benefit the climbing community. In general, I think we should strive toward having clean lines to climb, and part of that is removing others' gear sometimes. Always leave it better than you found it, if at all possible!
Josh
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
I used to have the lost and found clause in my booty rulze. just too busy to search for the origional that i posted to neclimbs or Neice , taco stand or RC.noob god only knows how long ago.
Sh#t that is obviously lost in the parking lot etc is Not booty.
|
|
bjj
climber
beyond the sun
|
|
|
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
|
#1 Any gear that you leave on a climb due to lack of skill, persistance or sack is booty once you give up on retrieveing it and leave the crag for the day. You get a 12hr reprive if you announce your intentions to recover your gear but you do need to be at the base of the cliff at first light. Get drunk and sleep in will result in your gear becomming booty.
#2. Gear left due to inclemant weather or conditions is booty as a lack of skill was involved in the decisions that you made. You were not fast and strong enough to beat the weather or you made a poor decision regarding the weather or conditions.The mtn beat you and therefore your gear becomes booty.
#3 Any gear left in a rescue or accident resulting in real (not imagined) injury is not booty and shall be left at Rock and snow/IME, the Mountainere etc. to be returned to the proper partys involved. The booty game is supposed to be fun. once someone gets really hurt it is not fun anymore.
**
I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but I spot a pretty obvious hypocrisy here with #3. Why should you be allowed to get your gear back after an accident, if you are not allowed because of #1 and 2? All 3 situations arise from (according to your logic) the same common denominator. Not being strong / skilled / mentally tough enough and getting in over your head.
What if you get injured because of the weather? Does that fall under the guidelines of 2 or 3?
The booty game is supposed to be fun? When is it ever fun to have to not only retreat and admit defeat, but to have your gear you worked hard to buy get picked over by the jackals the minute the "rules" say it's ok? Only sounds like fun for one side.
Rebuttal?
|
|
Brian Bauer
climber
|
|
|
Sep 12, 2013 - 06:05pm PT
|
This sh#t is ridiculous. I'm not sure where the confusion is. The 5 rules posted seem like common sense to me. Obviously if something is just laying in the parking lot, someone forgot it. Don't be a thief. If someone left a piece on a climb, stuck, (and there was no accident involving a bail), then it's up for grabs. Period. My only gotcha is if you're following a party on a super easy climb. I recently climbed behind a party on Deception at the leap. The follower left like 4 nuts that were in no way fixed...but she was obviously new at cleaning gear. It would be dickish to score those...
|
|
Brian Bauer
climber
|
|
|
Sep 12, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
|
An anchor built for a safe rescue, by you or another party, is pretty obvious...
If you're on a trade route and you find this, do some research. If you think you're new routing...it might be less obvious, but still do some research...
|
|
The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
|
|
|
Sep 12, 2013 - 06:37pm PT
|
|
|
ElCapPirate
Big Wall climber
Reno, Nevada
|
|
|
Sep 12, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
|
I recently climbed behind a party on Deception at the leap. The follower left like 4 nuts that were in no way fixed...but she was obviously new at cleaning gear. It would be dickish to score those...
Nice Brian, I've actually returned quite a bit of gear in this scenario. I've even free soloed routes that the follower couldn't get the gear out, just so I could hand them their gear at the top of the route. Good karma.
|
|
AE
climber
Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Sep 20, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
|
Every old timer knows full well the risks of abandoning gear, and that is essentially what booty is - abandoned! I can't measure the gall of someone too inept to remove their own gear, who then expects some stranger will go to extra trouble and effort, only to be obligated to return said equipment!
It used to be a point of pride to be able to extricate stuck nuts, that might have been in place for weeks, or even longer, never mind merely being able to always remove everything your party placed - which sometimes involved lowering the leader, to take out the very piece he/she had inserted. Even that represented sort of a tacit dual embarrassment, for the leader to have placed gear too solid for their second to deal with, and for the second, to feel incompetent at removing anything the leader had set. Speed ascents be damned - I've spent more than an hour working on a single piece, and then not always successfully. Of course, cams changed everything, since they tended to get really, really stuck, but also represented a huge chunk of change that makes leaving one a real event.
One may show good form, and use discretion in returning gear either from rescue or accident scenarios, and sometimes to rank beginners, so as to display how the gear was not as stuck as they imagined. Swallowing one's pride, having to see someone else score your gear, should be taken as a lesson, rather than attacking those who work to keep the crags clean of junk.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
|
Sep 20, 2013 - 09:24pm PT
|
If the 2nd can not clean the gear yet the leader intends to rap the route and recover the gear it is NOT booty untill the party retires for the day and admits defeat. Cleaning this gear while following the party and returning it is fine and does not cause an honor debt or loss of face for the party that did not have a chance to attempt recovery. If on the otherhand they do rap the rt and can not recover their gear and give up on the attempt to recover the gear then booty rulze apply.
The booty game is supposed to be fun in the event of a real rescue it is not fun anymore and for many very obvious reasons any gear left in the course of the accident and rescue is NOT booty.
annother item worth noteing. Work gear is not booty. Example I left a directional biner 2 weeks ago while rapping in to replace a bad bolt. that is Not booty
|
|
RyanD
climber
Squamish
|
|
|
Sep 21, 2013 - 12:08am PT
|
One may show good form, and use discretion in returning gear either from rescue or accident scenarios, and sometimes to rank beginners, so as to display how the gear was not as stuck as they imagined. Swallowing one's pride, having to see someone else score your gear, should be taken as a lesson, rather than attacking those who work to keep the crags clean of junk.
This is a great post.
We booty'd these kids 3.5 camalot on ancient art that they couldn't get out when they rapped & saw em' in the campground & have it back, they had a bong & smoked us out & gave us a bunch of nugz for later. That was cool. I sure would like to find a nice 3.5 camalot tho.
|
|
Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
|
|
Sep 21, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
|
We interrupt this serious discussion to show minor booty from yesterday. In a horizontal placement, it wasn't stuck or fallen on. The location suggested prudent retreat when a leader did not like the next runout.
|
|
the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Sep 21, 2013 - 09:29pm PT
|
Someone complaining about booty is probably someone who has lost more gear than they've found.
I've bootied gear and called to the people above asking if they left it and I gave it back. But I wouldn't fault someone who kept it in that scenario. Basically I'm going to keep it if I don't know who the owner is and it's one piece here and there. If I found a few pieces like a bail anchor with cams I'd post a note, but if I extract a piece I'm not going to spend time tracking down the owner.
A lost and found is either a weak troll or a dumb idea. Yeah leaving Gear unattended is sure to remain there for the rightful owner LOL. If you find or extract gear you at the new rightful owner you just need to make a reasonable attempt to find the previous owner. Which for a stuck cam to me would be calling out to the nearby parties but for a whole rack in a parking lot or a rescue situation would be every thing I could do to get it back, notes, Internet postings, etc.
|
|
mr p
Big Wall climber
eastside ca
|
|
|
Sep 29, 2013 - 03:43pm PT
|
Errett. I am off to the booty garden late70s early 80s=the base of the prow
|
|
Evdawg
Trad climber
Sacramento/S. Tahoe
|
|
|
Sep 30, 2013 - 02:29am PT
|
I was once doing a short arm-bar offwidth, pulled on a hold that turned out to be part of a giant loose block that was only visible by a tiny micro fracture in the rock. The rock smashed my arm pretty bad and I took a fall on the #6 C4 below my feet. I went to the hospital to get it checked out, very small fracture, contusions, nowhere near as bad as it could have been.
Point being, I was a little biotch and marked an X at the base of the wall with some tape, and wrote my number on the tape, hoping someone might get curious and offer to return the #6. Anyway, later after my mind settled I figured it was barely different than graphite to most eyes, so I went back the next day and rapped the thing with my arm in the sling and got my damn cam back. (Also finished dropping the block the rest of the way)
|
|
mushroom
Trad climber
USA
|
|
|
Sep 30, 2013 - 04:18am PT
|
I believe it was Pass the Pitons Pete who proclaimed:
Your 'worth' on the wall is equal to booty gained less gear left behind.
|
|
rolo
climber
|
|
|
Sep 30, 2013 - 04:35am PT
|
In the early 1990s in the Paine Towers two major new routes in the east face of Torre Central were hugely helped by major booty, although it is hard to tell what qualifies as booty... One of the routes honors that "gift from god" in it's name. It was hard to be too sympathetic for the party that suffered the damage. It was the Spanish duo that was infamous for spending months working on a route in El Cap with fixed ropes, for opening a new route in the Naranjo de Bulnes at an 8-meter-per-day rate while on live TV, for climbing a route in three separate sections on the southeast face of Fitz Roy and claiming it as a continuous ascent, etc. Those that found the booty did not know nor expected that the spaniards had hoped to go back to their project and route cache, which had appeared very much abandoned. The scene at basecamp when spaniards showed up must have been quite something.
|
|
Paul Martzen
Trad climber
Fresno
|
|
I left a small stopper on the first pitch of the Grack Center on Glacier point on Saturday. I am hoping that maybe PC will go and get it for me. I am sure you other schmucks will just keep it. It is really worth a lot to me, probably $4 or $5, and it will only take an hour or so to figure out how to get it out.
In my defense, I thought it was an ok placement, but my inexperienced second jerked on it a bit. I sent my nut tool down to her, but that did not help. None of the 3 or 4 groups following got it out either. I tried to clean it on rap and was surprised by how deep it was. "How the heck did it get down there?" Of course I have a bad memory, so maybe I put it down there. It was totally stuck. I worked on it long enough to get it loose so it would wiggle, but I could not maneuver it out of its position. Its a real puzzle.
I worked on it awhile till I realized, I was not only leaving junk on the route, but clogging the rap route. So I left it and went on down and then went on to lunch and did not get back despite intentions to maybe scramble up and work on it some more despite the 4 other parties waiting to climb the 5.6 route.
There was big blue stopper on the second pitch if somebody has the skills and tools to get it. It was completely loose and I could move it back and forth several inches at least. But it was deep and without my nut pick I could not change the orientation to find the right path to get it out. With other parties lined up below, I could not work on it very long.
Sometimes the pleasure of booty is being able to solve an extrication problem that somebody else did not solve.
Which brings me to a question. What methods are people using to remove really badly stuck and mangled cams? Hacksaw blades? Chisels?
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
For clean up i use a cordless sawzal with a long metal blade. Some lady bitched me out for cleaning her mangled cam this way that had been stuck for a month @ my local crag.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 45 of total 45 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!