Rim Fire, The Beginning

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10b4me

Ice climber
Soon 2B in Arizona
Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 5, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
http://www.sfgate.com/news/science/article/USFS-Hunter-caused-huge-wildfire-near-Yosemite-4789447.php[/quote

hb81

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
The only legal hunting allowed at the time the fire started Aug. 17 was archery for bear and deer.

Is that really a thing people do? Wow.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
Is that really a thing people do? Wow.

You must be a city dweller.
bobinc

Trad climber
Portland, Or
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
The killing is only part of it... the grilling is the real event.
Bad Climber

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
I'm all for hunting, but who are these FREAKIN' morons? A huge fire was started in our neck of the woods a couple of years ago by some in-bred dolt deciding that using an electric pipe cutter in high, tinder-dry grass was a good idea. He had a bucket of water nearby in case anything got out of hand. Thousands of scorched acres and many blackened homes later, it was under control. Another moron, this time at the controls of a plane, decided to buzz his buddies place in the mountains int he same area. Long story short: dead pilot, MASSIVE wildfire.

We are never safe from idiots.

BAd
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Sep 5, 2013 - 04:45pm PT
I've spent a lot of time back in that part of the Stanislaus alone. I always wave, smile and keep going. Some of those people are f*#king scarey as sh#t. Old meth labs in rusting trailers, hunters giving me the stink eye while armed. Although, this was before the Murphy ranch became Indian land. Never happened upon a grow though.


Too bad, I liked it out there.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Sep 5, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
what do you expect from people who kill the animals just for fun..
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Sep 5, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
how do you like your cheeseburgers?
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Sep 5, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
What do you expect?
Indeed.

http://articles.latimes.com/2005/nov/18/local/me-cedar18

"Martinez, who works for a home developer, had begged Benitez for leniency, saying that he panicked when he became separated from his companion on a deer hunting trip in the backcountry of northern San Diego County."
TrackerTodd

Mountain climber
CA
Sep 5, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
This is a total bummer, I have seen many campers and hikers building campfires in the back country all too often. Alexey, why do you assume the hunter was just doing this for fun? Every hunter I know hunts to eat not for sport.
John M

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
Turns out the media got it wrong. The person was "hunting" for a new climbing area.


Those damn climbers. Always screwing things up for everyone else.
Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
Todd, I never hunted, and honestly know very little about this.
But assume that the time where people hunting for food is over.
I am talking about hunters for whom hunting is hobby, not profession. And I am guessing that main goal is not to bring meat home for hungry family , but successfully chase and kill wild animal.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
You eat meat, you can't disparage hunters. Hypocrisy at it's best. Any hunter worth his salt eats what he kills. Drive a car down the road squashing insects as you proclaim vegetarianism, mow your lawn chopping its denizens to pieces, there is no escaping the act of taking life, at least in this existence.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:16pm PT
Alexey, many people where I live hunt, and they all hunt for food, not trophies.

It's reckless behavior to have a fire when you shouldn't.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:18pm PT
You eat meat, you can't disparage hunters. Hypocrisy at it's best.

Ridiculous.

Most hunters disparage other hunters, and you know it. Hunters don't put meat on my table. Your typical 'hunter' comes from some city or surburban center, hunts a handful of days per year, within 10 minutes of the nearest road. Some of them 'hunt' from the window of their vehicles using spotlights. I have seen them at work.

So defend hunters all you want. You are standing shoulder to shoulder with drunks and poachers, along with the ligit and serious hunters (a minority of 'hunters')
T
rophy hunters should be required to eat what they kill. All of it.

DMT

Alexey

climber
San Jose, CA
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:28pm PT
I see the difference between the choice : go to store and buy the meat or go to the forest and kill the deer.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
Or do neither. Yeah, I know, the bug thing, so what, it's about minimizing your impact on other life.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
Unless you're a vegetarian or vegan, you have no grounds for disliking hunting. I don't know anyone who hunts for huntings sake, they hunt for food.

I'm sure there are losers out there who kill just because they can, but I don't see it where I live.

Again, an illegal fire is reckless and inappropriate.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Sep 5, 2013 - 07:52pm PT
There is a huge well established deer hunting community in many parts of the country.

In Western PA, where I grew up, there was no school on the first day of deer hunting season. Too many boys would take the day off, so the schools would invent a holiday that always coincided with opening day.

Never took to hunting myself, but my brother and other family members were quite serious about it. And it not easy - it takes skill and hard work if you want to have any level of success.

Every deer hunter I knew ate the animals they killed.

Ya gotta remember, there ain't much else to do in these places. I never even heard of rock climbing until I was in college.

You are standing shoulder to shoulder with drunks and poachers [...]

Kinda like stoners and grid bolters?

A story about my people:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0077416/plotsummary?ref_=tt_stry_pl
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:00pm PT
Unless you're a vegetarian or vegan, you have no grounds for disliking hunting.

Bullsh#t. Most hunters are hacks. They don't eat their kills.

MOST.

DMT
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
Well, I disagree. I live in an area where hunting is common. Every hunter I know has a freezer in their garage where the deer goes.

Cheers,
Brandon
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
Most hunters are hacks. They don't eat their kills.

I'd wager good money you are wrong. Now it is a given that few, if any,
utilize their kills as completely as a Native American would have BITD
but that is another story.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
I live in California with 33 million other idiots.

DMT
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
I saw Anthony Bourdain eat a warthog rectum that had been just thrown into a fire.



I think Dingus is wrong about "most" but there are far too many poor examples of gun owners.

And Kos is another story (but those Deer Hunter plot summaries were weak sauce).
QITNL

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:13pm PT
If a climber had set this fire, I'd be irate right now. I'd demand that we, as a community, acknowledge a climber was responsible, apologize for his irresponsibility, and demand every member of our community fully understands the consequences of their actions.

I'd scrape off all the BD stickers from my car before I drove through Groveland and I wouldn't be parading my rack around town. I'd stop posting climbing topics on hunting forums.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
my experience is that their
'big boy' facade is just that.

the stink eye,
the big trucks.
the guns.
the gruff stare.

all a front intended
to paint a handsome picture.

i've gone fist to fist with
stupid f*#k's and when the
sweat hits the brow these
boys are cowards.

im a coward, too.
and i've gotten me asse handed to me more than once.

but these guys, the stupid hick mother f*#kers that
plague my hometown are mere dilutions of real men.

i make a habit of it to call them on their
shite show and once in a while i get sparks
of their display and when we stand face
to face, the fail is not mine.
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
Taking life is part of being human. Deny it all you want, but you're lying to yourself if you think otherwise. Squash spiders, poison ants, drive a car, you're killing. Spray wasp spray, mountain bike down a trail, take a fukin walk in the woods, it's the same thing as pulling a trigger..Everything has every bit as much right to be here as any of us do. That's not the truth? Someone shoots a deer, butchers it, tans the hide and eats what remains through a winter, and that's cruel? Again, how do you like your feedlot-raised, hormone-injected cheeseburger?
Leggs

Sport climber
Tucson, AZ
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
A Forest Service statement gave no details on how the illegal fire in a remote canyon of the Stanislaus National Forest had escaped the hunter's control on Aug. 17. Because of high fire danger across the region, the Forest Service had banned fires outside of developed camping areas more than a week before the fire started.

Perhaps this "discussion" can turn a corner and involve the topic of "banned fires outside of developed camping areas", a very serious issue, instead of a pissing match about hunting/hunters/vegetarians/vegans/ and what they eat?


~peace
julton

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:38pm PT
Focusing on the trigger and looking for blame is a natural human reaction. The forest was primed to burn and if it hadn't been a hunter a couple of weeks ago it would have been someone else or something else before long.
ruppell

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
We are never safe from idiots.

That about sums it up. I know stupid hunters and I know stupid climbers. In this case it happened to be the former.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
I thought climber rescues were the highest sort of irresponsibility that taxpayers had to burden?

Silly me.
QITNL

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
It might be polite to lay off the cheeseburger and grilling jokes, at least out of respect for the ranchers in the area.

Hundreds of California cattle feared hurt, dead as massive Rim Fire scorches region

Cattle ranchers cope with losses from Rim Fire

Some of those cows woke me up many a morning.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
They don't eat their kills.

What do they do with them?
sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
They are offered up to Satan, of course. Hunters are evil, drunk people unlike factory farm workers, who are compassionate and kind.
GLillegard

Social climber
Oregon
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
A broad stroke to paint Hunters into a majority of drunks and poachers. If your point of reference is the Eastern Sierra's from Bridgeport north thru the 395 corridor, throughout Ebbets Pass at hwy 4 and the Sonora Pass then yes when deer season opens the hoards from So Cal and the Central Valley descend for their weekend of hunting and the craziness ensues. This is hardly representative of Hunters as a whole. Just another activity pushed to ridiculous extremes by Suburban population pressure.

My experiences in Northern Nevada, Western and Central Oregon , Idaho, and Eastern Washington have been by far more positive in interacting with hunters, and their numbers have by many fold far exceeded anything I have ever seen in the Sierras. They hunt for the challenge and the Meat. It certainly is part of the rural life, so we just end up with another culture clash.


Ignorance or stupidity is not exclusive or excluded from any group. Someone went to the mountains and bad Judgement combined with bad luck made for a disaster. It has happened before and will happen again.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 5, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
+1^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
They are offered up to Satan, of course. Hunters are evil, drunk people unlike factory farm workers, who are compassionate and kind.

That must be why In-N-Out burgers are so tasty.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
A broad stroke to paint Hunters into a majority of drunks and poachers. If your point of reference is the Eastern Sierra's from Bridgeport north thru the 395 corridor, throughout Ebbets Pass at hwy 4 and the Sonora Pass then yes when deer season opens the hoards from So Cal and the Central Valley descend for their weekend of hunting and the craziness ensues. This is hardly representative of Hunters as a whole.

Its a numbers problem you face. Consider hunting within 100 miles of any and I mean any major metropolitan area in the U.S.

I grew up hunting. I went to hunter safety course starting at age 10, when I got my first hunting permit. This was in north western New Jersey. There, its all hunt club stuff. My dad owned land, allowed the Raretin County hunt climb to use it and thus we had access to all the club lands.

This was in 1970 and the flood of idiots from the city, with guns, would commence on opening day. I know of two times our f*#king house got shot!

From there I lived in rural Tennessee. On opening day the flood of morons with guns from Nashville, would commence.

Its the same across the country. The problem is? These city-bred hunters far out number the countrified one. Sure there are 50,000 competent hunters in Montana, or whatever the number is. NYC alone cancels out Montana with thousands of idiots to spare.

Sorry.

No longer my burden, I gave up hunting at 18, or I gave up hunting animals I should say.

DMT
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:09pm PT
"A broad stroke to paint Hunters into a majority of drunks and poachers."

Well, 'broad strokes' is what we do best here at ST. From Burning Man to Liberals to Conservatives to GunNutz to Christians, you are either in one box or another. 'Cuz black & white is so much easier to understand, and provides so much more argumentative fodder.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:14pm PT
Ahem,,, having been in the USFS/LEO field, i had the occasion to do many hunter checks during the seasons in both NV and CA.


By FAR, California had way more incidents of the following, based on my personal experience afield.


Accidental shootings

Waste of game

Hunting wrong areas/zones

Spotlighting

Shooting in congested areas

poaching


LEAVING HOT CAMPFIRES unattended.

Guernica

climber
right there, right then
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:18pm PT
Some of the deepest and most profound experiences I've had have been bowhunting, far eclipsing anything from the rather contrived pursuit of climbing.

So screw you negative nellies!

(But actually yes, most hunters do suck.)
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
I know of two times our f*#king house got shot!


Our house was shot once that I recall and the guy who owned it before us actually was shot himself while in the backyard.

Where I lived in western PA you had to use a shotgun with a slug for deer. It limited the range and helped limit collateral damage.

sandstone conglomerate

climber
sharon conglomerate central
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:26pm PT
This ain't a ted nugent thing. f*#k that dude.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:34pm PT
I was raised hunting and fishing and ill die hunting and fishing. I never caused a wildfire, but ive burned thousands of acres.
klk

Trad climber
cali
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
don't think the beginning matters much.

would we feel better if it'd been lightning?

those lower-drainages are choked with brush and ladder fuels and non-commercial timber. mechanical thinning isn't feasible, and control burns are dicey in that terrain, even if the USFS was fully-funded, and the local congressman, business owners, second home owners, ranchers, SPI, tourists, and climbers wouldn't whine constantly about the smoke.

we were unbelievably lucky. could've easy been lightning and the same result.

if they hadn't held the line on the 25th and 26th, and it had blown up north fork, we could've lost a whole lot of that lower 108 corridor. the best thing about this fire is that it could help to create an environment in which control burning is more accepted (and funded) in the sierras.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:47pm PT
Good post Klk.

And yes, there will be some positives come out of this. Slow to realize, but positives.

90% + of the wildfires set by man are accidental. From the hikers that thought they had put the campfire out, to the hunter who thought the same.

Mostly the un familiar to the woods types - that fail to properly clear the "duff" from around a campfire, or they throw dirt on it to bury the fire thinking that will put it out. ( it doesnt it just makes it an oven.)

The Siege of 87, California's greatest fire event on record was all lighting caused. 1200+ fires in one massive system of thunderheads.

For that fire, the crews did EXEMPLARY JOBS for you all.. Everyone in that area should be proud we have those type pf people around. It wasnt just luck that saved more structures than lost. It was some BALLZ UP actions and a crap load of GRUELING work. My old crew the Silver State hotshots are there and have been for a long while. I know THEY want to see this bastard out.
QITNL

climber
Sep 5, 2013 - 09:51pm PT
I grew up in Iowa & Oregon, hunting doesn't bother me. What bothers me is the lack of regard for personal responsibility.

Always pointing the figure at everyone else: Mexicans, blacks, Muslims... now we're reminded that Californians are on that list, let's jump to another conclusion. Obama, of course, can't forget him.

This is all I need to hear - if one single hunter could say something like this - feel free to copy and paste:

"Hey, I'm a hunter and I'm sorry to hear a hunter caused the Rim Fire. My friends and I try to hunt in a safe and responsible manner. We try to do what we can to make sure all hunters behave this way."

I'd say "Hey, thanks - that's really good to hear. If it were a hiker or climber who started the fire, I'd say the same thing. Since they figured out the fire was human-caused, the same applies to every human being."

I'm better off talking to a rock than someone who doesn't understand the basic concepts of personal responsibility. I don't get it, maybe they didn't teach that to little boys who grew up before me.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
Man,, i hate to say it but your quite full of yourself. So me as a hunter should APOLOGIZE to YOU? Me who FOUGHT FIRE all over your state. Me who has given support and info here to the efforts of understanding about fires fuels as well as issuing regards to all the affected?? Me who PAID MY DUES times ten, should now apologize because a california hunter accidentally set the woods ablaze?

And if your comparing hunters to Alquay-duh types or mexican gang members well,, yur just off by a landslide.


Howbout this,, ill apologize as a hunter if you apologize for the MASSIVE AMOUNT of California smoke ive inhaled the last two weeks.
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:01pm PT
Most people who drive up here straight from the city are deathly afraid. We had one lady in frickin' tears because she came the "back way" (a perfectly nice dirt road). They really believe the stories of rednecks and guns and meth labs. They actually believe this sh#t.


Please, go on believing this.





ps. Ron, maybe you should move to Alaska, where men are men and women are mighty scarce.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:05pm PT
Maybe you should THANK me for keeping yur asses from burning long ago. When i was DOWN there on fires.;-)
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
I don't eat what I hunt.

I let em all go, nice and gently, each and everyone of em... alive and happy.

Even that 25" Brownie the other day.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:14pm PT
For the most i catch and release to Chief. But i loves me some yellow perch, bluegill, and crappie as well as smaller bass. I only eat trout off the camp fire.
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
You two should hook up. You'd be like the cutest couple evar
The Chief

climber
From the Land of the Mongols
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
Now Wahoo is a different story. So are Small/Big mouth and Brim. All on the fly.

Secret Beer batter recipe and Olive Oil.


Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 5, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
What is with you K.. Your like a badger these days.

I dont fly fish Chief.. I spent 10 yrs tournament bass fishin though..Om all about EFFICIENCY..;-)
Michelle

Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
Sep 5, 2013 - 11:21pm PT
Thanks klk, I was about to post the same thing!

Pretty much 95%of the time I don't see people back there.
TrackerTodd

Mountain climber
CA
Sep 6, 2013 - 12:03am PT
I would rather go into the forest and kill the deer Alexey ,this way I know where my food comes from and DMT all hunters I know are not hacks at all.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 6, 2013 - 12:10am PT
Cool, tracker todd. Peace.

DMT
Srbphoto

climber
Kennewick wa
Sep 6, 2013 - 12:13am PT
the carrot screams as loud as the pig, you just haven't learned to hear it.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 1, 2013 - 01:14am PT
looking Northeast from the "Rim of the World" turnout on Rt. 120 going into the Valley on 9/20



and in the Park, also on Rt. 120, at a place where the fire jumped the road...

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Relic MilkEye and grandpoobah of HRKRNH
Oct 1, 2013 - 03:29am PT
Ed,,A perfect picture of a drastically over stocked man made stand that thinned by one of three means. The SDI spacing of those pines should have been about 20 feet minimum.
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