Blackfish - the movie (OT)

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 1 - 50 of total 50 in this topic
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 30, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
Who's seen it? Thoughts?

On a related note, tomorrow the slaughter begins again in Taiji.

#thecove
#blackfish
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Aug 30, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
The south park episode about it was pretty funny. Definitely worth a look.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
how do i find that episode?
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Aug 30, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
The episode is called whale whores. Don't know if it is online
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2013 - 07:25pm PT
http://www.southparkstudios.com/full-episodes/s13e11-whale-whores

have you seen the movie, Jim?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2013 - 07:54pm PT
Please watch this movie on CNN tonight.
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Oct 25, 2013 - 02:37pm PT
I watched it last night, didn't sleep too well, made me feel dirty to be a human.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Thank you for watching.

If you'd like to feel better about being a human than simply commit to doing something about it. Even it's nothing more than spreading the word that will go a long way. Post the following links to your Facebook page. Something like that...

I now find myself in the middle of a movement - a movement that really is making a difference.

Here's a link to my friend Shawn Heinrichs TEDx Boulder talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ez_GJtFbKls

In it he shows a clip from Mantas Last Dance. Here's the whole movie:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYRiQDJsrXI#t=26

Shawn and Hannah Fraser also did this with the Humpback Whales
http://www.bluespheremedia.com/2013/10/betrayal-activist-dances-with-whales-to-highlight-their-plight/
http://vimeo.com/76668525

As a result of taking action:
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157525n

If you have not seen the move The Cove go watch that as well.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
Watch my other links brother....


here's Blackfish
http://www.thegreatplanet.com/blackfish/

#blackfish
stevep

Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
Oct 25, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
This is Free Willy Part 3?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2013 - 04:13pm PT
Free Lolita
Free Tillicum
Shut down SeaWorld
Stop capturing Cetaceans

#thecove #blackfish
FRUMY

Trad climber
Bishop,CA
Oct 25, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
Humans mostly make me sick.

Nature thanks for bring this up even if it makes me sick.
RRad

Trad climber
Escondido, CA
Oct 25, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
While I don't agree with some of the things that Seaworld does, I wanted to point out that closing Seaworld might do more harm than good.
Consider that the Seaworld Conservation fund has donated over 10 million dollars to various conservation projects over the last decade:
http://www.swbg-conservationfund.org/goalsIssues.htm
Also consider that they have a very active sealife rescue operation that has helped +22,000 animals over the years:
http://seaworldparks.com/seaworld-sandiego/Animals/Animal-Rescue?from=Front_Page_Bottom_Promo

Interestingly, Shawn Heinrichs who gives that nice TED talk linked above, is partnered with among others: National Geographic, WildAid, Conservation International and The Nature Conservancy. Well, Seaworld is also partnered with, and has provided some funding for these exact same organizations. So, while Seaworld might look like a circus that to some extent exploit animals, they also do some serious work in endangered species conservation, wildlife rescue and habitat preservation.

nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2013 - 07:57pm PT
Edit: RRad - one comment total on this forum? Work for SeaWorld in the PR department? LOL!

There is some validity to your comments.

Zoos, etc. in part came about because we came to the rescue of many animals that were in distress. But if they really cared they would go non-profit - The Monterey Bay Aquarium as an example.

Instead they continue to capture Cetaceans and put them in swimming pools and train them for "our" amusement. I will sacrifice every good they do to put an end to that. Period.
cliffhanger

Trad climber
California
Oct 25, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
Despite some serious problems SeaWorld has done a hugely tremendously good job in promoting good will toward whales and sea mammals in general. And this has saved many many thousands (perhaps millions) of whales and sea mammals. And with Japan, Iceland, and Norway still hunting whales it needs to continue it's fine work but with greater attention to the welfare of it's whales and trainers.

The whales at SeaWorld are ambassadors seeking an end to the slaughter that is still raging in the oceans. Their sacrifices are still needed to help all whales and sea mammals. SeaWorld needs to continue to promote good will toward sea life with it's Orca program.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 25, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
I understand that that is the SeaWorld party line. It's about all they have left. After the airing of Blackfish last night on CNN SeaWorld is in a world of hurt.

Simply put Cetaceans should not be in captivity. That's the movement. I'll state again - I don't care what good they do so long as they continue to parade these highly evolved animals out as entertainment.

The killing of thousands and thousands of dolphins in Taiji is the direct result of the demand of the Cetacean entertainment industry.

They can go f*#k themselves and find some other ambassador.

edit: cliffhanger, please don't take that as a personal attack. We all have our opinions and views on subjects like this. That's where I work from.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Oct 25, 2013 - 10:42pm PT
Just watched it. I'm surprised CNN took on such an investigative piece. Sea World is starting to look pretty bad - they wouldn't even talk to the movie makers. There must be big bucks at stake here for Sea World to lie in court about their relationship with that Spanish park where that trainer was killed, and for them to be stonewalling as they are.

I think we are seeing a cultural shift. Perhaps humans are shedding some of their self-important arrogance and realizing that maybe we should treat our fellow earthlings with respect. Seriously, I hope this "movement" can eventually put an end to this pracice.

Now, rodeo, well, now that's a different story . . .
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Oct 26, 2013 - 09:37am PT
Between this thread and the tuna thread I've had an uplifting morning. Thanks guys! Meh...Humans just suck.

E and I missed the show, but we'll track it down. Uh.. yeah...The era of keeping these sea mammals in captivity really needs to die. Although I agree that shutting down places like Sea World altogether may not be good on some levels...it's simply not necessary to have a live whale there as an "ambassador". These parks can make money without having an enslaved orca performing tricks. They could drain the tanks, put in an IMAX theater showing a film of them in the wild IMO.
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Oct 26, 2013 - 10:09am PT
I have heard the Cove is pretty brutal to watch.
I stopped eating meat a few years ago. I've become too much of a wuss to watch these types of films :(

humans are awful. I can deal with doing away with most of them.
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
Oct 26, 2013 - 11:09am PT
Well, if it is any consolation, it is humans who are getting seriously mauled and drowned. They don't call them "killer whales" for nothing. It is just like keeping lions and tigers and grizzlies, sooner or later those instincts will kick in, its inevitible.

It is quite astonishing to see a person being toyed with and worse. Those trainers are completely at the mercy of those killers once they enter the water with them. You are only getting out of that tank if the whale decides to let you. They have absolute control if they want it, once you're in their element.

There is this video out there of a pack of killer whales harassing a mother gray whale and her calf. They just gradually wore them down over a period of like 5 or 6 hours. In the end, they killed the calf, ate its tounge, and left the rest.
apogee

climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Oct 26, 2013 - 11:21am PT
"So, while Seaworld might look like a circus that to some extent exploit animals, they also do some serious work in endangered species conservation, wildlife rescue and habitat preservation."

Kinda like REI is ok because they contribute to the Access Fund?

I don't think either Sea World or REI have evil intent specifically against ocean animals or the outdoor community, but the net effect they have on their respective areas of interest is weak (to say the least).

Haven't seen these movies yet...but I'll check 'em out.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2013 - 11:25am PT
The Cove is actually entertaining except for about 5 minutes of slaughter. I met the director in Mexico. He lives a mile from me. When we got those rains he got flooded. I went up to help him clean up. Brought vegan sushi. Louie is on the left.


I'm really in the middle of it now....
ydpl8s

Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
Oct 26, 2013 - 12:40pm PT
If you can watch that scene where they are slinging the baby Orca and all of the adults are staying around crying to it, without having a tear come to your eye, well then, you were probably ok with Abu Ghraib. I have read that violent murderers often have an early history of animal cruelty.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Oct 26, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
I now find myself in the middle of a movement

Hope everything comes out ok.


The slaughter of cetaceans is a horrible thing and must be stopped.
Keeping them in captivity as circus animals is heartbreaking too.
For educational purposes, there's got to be a better way.

Thanks for making a difference.


nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
This is kinda bad ass.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157530n

Watson is my hero for the day.
StahlBro

Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Oct 26, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
This is another big opportunity to reassess our relationship with the other beings on this planet. Hope is does not get wasted.

When you take highly intelligent, powerful and social animals (including elephants) out of their normal environment, where they have lived for 1,000 or 1,000,000 of years, and force them into some man-made contrivance bad things will happen to both.

We should know better by now....
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Oct 26, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
Nature, way to go! bringing this to public attention.

Even though it hurts, everyone needs to see Blackfish. Even more so, they need to study it and learn from it. Or relearn from it. As necessary.

Be the change you seek in the world.

.....

Btw, big big kudos to that Peters (trainer) - epitome of cool, calm and collected!
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Oct 26, 2013 - 07:30pm PT
I guess I was thinking about "The Cove", when I posted back a ways. The South Park episode seemed like an interesting counterpoint, although I never saw the cove.

Also, back when I was a student of the biology, there were a couple of kayakers who were lost somewhere off of Southern CA. The story was that the biologist who inspected the kayaks thought it was an orca. He wanted to avoid the backlash, so sharks got the blame.

Finally, it seems that humans are partially so successful because they'll eat pretty much everything they can, from any environment. Maybe when you're among the top of the food chain, it's nice to have something exotic every now and then.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2013 - 07:50pm PT
HFCS - thanks. I'm in a space now where I really have no choice.

Yeah, Peters was very calm. Problem is he's very outspoken at this point that keeping these animals in captivity is OK.

You'd think after almost being killed by one your mind might change. Apparently not in his case.

Jim - yeah, but I did mention Taiji.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Oct 26, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
I was working in the garage all day and actually caught all but the first 15 minutes on a repeat today. Completely soaked my hankie for sure. These films are hard to watch but everyone really should.

I revise my former statement: Sea World can completely go f*#k itself.

Looks like they are repeating Blackfish again tomorrow night at 9:00 BTW.

Edit to add: I NEVER liked those shows with dolphin and whales... even as a little kid. I was WAY more into the tide-pools where you could see critters up close and they'd let you hold a sea star. It just baffles my mind why these intelligent creatures are still held a slaves in this day and age.
gasman

Trad climber
eugene
Oct 26, 2013 - 09:56pm PT
I have always had a hard time with zoos in general but I know they are responsible for helping sustain endangered species.

I have never wanted nor seen a SeaWorld. Now, I'm really pissed at them. We know too much about dolphins (including the largest-Killer Whales to keep them in captivity. Just pisses me off.

I'm really glad I saw Blackfish and am terminally pissed.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 26, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
I'm in no way being critical but one thing I'm really trying to be mindful of is to call them Orcas.
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Oct 26, 2013 - 11:09pm PT
I'm pretty much on the same page nature. Still, I'd be proud to paddle out with the Makah to look for some grey whales. I heard they were using 50 cal. antiaircraft guns which seems less sporting, but sensible.. The stories about Orcas, aborigines, and whales are interesting too.

I never liked the disneyfication of SeaWorld. The fact that it is a publicly traded co. seems wrong too. Still, even non-profits are bureaucracies that have an interest in perpetuating their work, sometimes regardless of the results.

The subjugation of intelligent animals with complex behaviors and social structures for our pleasure is pretty jacked. Isn't that what humans do to other humans too? Some even do it under the guise of great religions.

Maybe just keep living a good life. I hope some things change, and it is good that people are concerned and willing to work for change.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 27, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
One of the things that has become clear to me recently is we have to pick our battles. It's been fisheries sustainability and now has broadened. Still related to oceans...




http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/weird-news/real-life-mermaid-hannah-fraser-swims-2641373
Jim Clipper

climber
from: forests to tree farms
Oct 27, 2013 - 10:31pm PT
Sustainability definitely seems like a worthy and less selfish goal. I'm not a vegan so I can't point fingers. Maybe if I was serious, I'd eat more bugs. Have you ever tried insect sushi?

Also, nice pictures of the mermaid girl. Did you ever hear about the woman who liked to go swimming off of a pier around Morro Bay? She was into communing with the sea lions. One day, the sea lions suddenly disappeared. Unfortunately, the man with the gray suit was in the neighborhood, and it didn't end well for her.

This guy is a trip also:

https://gregorycolbert.com/#!ashesandsnowGalleryAlt

The pictures of the whales aren't photoshopped, from what I heard.
phylp

Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
Oct 28, 2013 - 11:19am PT
Nature, maybe I missed it in this thread, but is there an non-profit organization that is working to make it illegal to use cetaceans in entertainment shows? I have always found those shows distasteful, but somehow did not take that thought one step further and ask myself if the animals are essentially being tortured by being captured and in captivity. I had no idea that they captured healthy animals, bred them, separated babies from their mothers. I didn't even realize there was more than one Seaworld. I guess I somehow had the impression that the only whales in captivity were those that had been rescued after being sick or injured somewhere. Essentially, until I watched Blackfish, I was totally uninformed about the industry. Never having had kids, I never go to these types of places.

But after watching Blackfish I feel sick at the industry practices. If there is a petition to sign that would make a difference? If there's a non-profit that I can make a donation to? I was going to try to research this sometime this week but if you have some links, please post.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2013 - 11:28am PT
phylp - thanks for watching.

I make donations to a variety of organizations. There isn't one whos mission is to specifically working to make capturing cetaceans illegal but there are number who include that in their agenda.

Louie's OPS - http://www.opsociety.org/ - is one. Donate or buy a shirt.

WildAid is another - http://www.opsociety.org/ - When I donate the Program Area I don't to is sharks. Louie and Shawn are both fighting hard to put an end to shark finning

I think the biggest way we can donate is to simply have a conversation and raise awareness.

If you stand at my sushi bar you get an ear full :)


I have a bunch of petitions that are worth signing. I'll post them here as I run across them:

http://www.causes.com/campaigns/39174-stop-the-slaughter-of-dolphins-in-peru-for-shark-bait-meat

There's a couple of these floating around and all are worth signing:
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/485/322/062/urge-nmfs-to-rectify-exclusion-of-lolita-from-the-esa-and-bring-lolita-home/
Lolita is from L pod - a resident pod in the Pacific Northwest. There is little doubt she could be introduced back to her pod and be reunited. She was caught 33 years ago. These creatures do not forget.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2013 - 11:38am PT
Another thing you can do is follow a few pages or people on facebook.

I really like these:

http://www.facebook.com/BlackberryJ27?hc_location=stream
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Oceanic-Preservation-Society-OPS/154663257894648
http://www.facebook.com/HannahMermaid


http://www.facebook.com/louie.psihoyos?fref=ts&ref=br_tf
http://www.facebook.com/shawn.heinrichs?fref=ts
RtM

climber
DHS
Oct 28, 2013 - 12:05pm PT
Started to watch it, but had to change the channel because it was making my wife cry.

I hope it comes on again, because I would really like to see the whole thing. Watching that kind of stuff does make me feel ill inside, but typically I feel even worse if I turn the other cheek and carry on as if these types of things don't happen.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
RtM - http://www.thegreatplanet.com/blackfish/
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
show this one to your wife. It'll make her cry for completely different reasons :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbh6qg8H3CY
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
Oh this is interesting.

RRad comes into this thread and makes a statement about how Orcas are ambassadors. I got to thinking.... I've never seen this person post.


No wonder!

http://www.supertopo.com/inc/view_forum.php?dcid=Ozg5Pjg6JSkl

1 post. Work for SeaWorld? Doing damage control?
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 28, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
^^^^^

That's how I roll (pun intended!)
RRad

Trad climber
Escondido, CA
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:17pm PT
Not really a good catch. I actually used to post here maybe 5 or six years ago under another name with a long lost password, don't have that email address any more and could not figure out how to retrieve the password.

Regarding seaworld, I've never worked there, but I have spent some time in the back areas where they rehab rescued animals and such, and that part of their operation is pretty wonderful. Having spent time with the rescued animals and the veterinarians and keepers that work with them I thought your comment about "closing seaworld" was a bit rash so I decided to have a look at what their conservation program actually looks like and write a post about it.

Other than that, good job pulling me out of lurking, I don't check in very often and when I do I prefer trip reports and dreaming of technicolor deserts and cool crisp high places. Even so, this forum has always been a fantastic place for me where so many amazing people come and go, a collection of stories from legends both living and dead.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Oct 30, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
Has anyone heard any evidence-based theories for the dorsal collapse? Can someone remind me... Is the dorsal collapse just in the males that are captive? Seems to me, there's no better symbolism for their plight than the dorsal collapse. Sure would be useful to have a reason (mechanism of action) for it.

Remember how cool, calm and collected Peters was with his encounter with the aggressive whale. I wonder of Brancheau might not have been so cool, calm and collected with Tilikum when she was pulled under - and a more aggressive response on her part (eg., pushing back, punching or kicking to get away; all quite normal a response) led to greater escalation in her mix-up with Tili? Just speculation. But too bad we just don't know.

The part about mixing orcas from different parts of the world, each with different culture and language, not to mention in a tiny sterile tank, rang pretty valid with me. How tragic.
RRad

Trad climber
Escondido, CA
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
Just to clarify, I never said anything about orcas being ambassadors, in fact I think it is a very bad idea to keep large intelligent creatures, especially whales, in captivity.

If they ever become critically endangered in the wild it might be a different story, at that point captive breeding programs might be the way to go. But that is a whole different discussion.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 30, 2013 - 02:36pm PT
RRad fair enough. Seeing you with one post well... easy assumption.

I understand part of the mission is to rehab animals. It's how they and most zoos got started.

But to capture Cetaceans and use them for their entertainment value is contradictory to any rehab work they might do. If there are any animals that are good candidates for being re-introduced to the wild it is the Cetaceans. Tilli would be welcome back to his pod some 35 years later. They'd remember him without a doubt.

I'll back off the close SeaWorld comment but state that they need to radically change their approach. A total and complete halt to parading Cetaceans out as entertainment is the goal while releasing those that can be released and moving the rest to open confinement to live out there days.

regarding the ambassadors comment - that was cliffhanger so I stand corrected. My apologies.

HFCS - they cite stats in the movie. Less than 1% in the wild suffer dorsal collapse. IIRC 60% in captivity. A total guess but I'd imagine it's because in the wild they can swim 100+ miles a day in a straight line. Hrydro-dynamics keep it upright. Again, complete guess.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:48pm PT
re: dorsal collapse

I don't know, I'd bet it points to an abnormal balance mentally, hormonally, or physiologically. Particularly if it's mostly or entirely male, which I thought the piece or literature said. A guess as well, but my last resort guess would be merely physical (e.g., hydro-dynamic because of the confines or whatever). But maybe though.
Outside

Trad climber
Truckee
Oct 30, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Watched the film.......nothing really that suprising besides taking the calfs away from mothers.

Yes, they take wild animals and put them in pens for entertainment, didn't we already know this since Seawold opened?

Long list of trainer incidents and a couple deaths over 3 decades, seems about right.....

I was expecting more I guess.
nature

climber
Boulder, CO
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 5, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
http://fabrily.com/Anti-Captivity

Messages 1 - 50 of total 50 in this topic
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta