Mammoth topography in regards to Visions (FindMattGreene)

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Hikesfortheview

Social climber
Sep 17, 2013 - 09:13am PT
I am a different Donna, not a bus driver and I didn't go to the Earthquake fault.

I believe I explained, in the early days of the FB page, that there is a bike/walking path that is paved that goes up to the Lake Basin. It's right along the road, so a smart way to go if you want to try to catch a ride with someone going fishing.

There are several fences along the way protecting travelers from the steep drop off.

Another way up to the Lake Basin is the dirt trail that starts at Sherwin road and heads by Mammoth Rock. (this is where the other type of old fence is, the barb wire/old wood.

All of the trails are very well traveled but not much early early a.m. If Matt went off trail or fell off trail, he could be missed.

I don't think Mammoth Lakes has snake issues at the elevation we are at.

Question? Did Matt have a flashlight with him? If he did, you know he left early. If he didn't, that is questionable.

Here is a link and photo (I hope) of Lake Mary road with the bike path beside it http://www.mammothtrails.org/trail/8/lakes-basin-path/

The Earthquake fault is not in this area but if you use that link you can have a better understanding of the trail system around Mammoth.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 17, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Hi Donna,

Thanks for clarifying and for the link to the Lakes Basin Path. The fence in the picture that came up in that link looks a bit like the other one Tyler saw -- not the one near where Matt was falling but the one where he was standing on a broad path or road looking at the mountains.

I didn't realize that there are two different Donnas involved and that it was the other one who went to the Earthquake Fault!

Based on this map of the "Blue Diamond" cross-country ski trail system, it looks like (if one wanted to) one could get to the Earthquake Fault area from Shady Rest using an long and very roundabout bunch of trails -- am I reading the map right? But as you indicate, it would make a lot more sense just to take the road.
http://www.cityconcierge.com/mammoth-lakes/community/Maps/bluediamond.jpg

Regarding whether Matt had a flashlight, I agree that without one, he wouldn't have gone walking before dawn. But it's my impression that if Matt had planned to spend the day hiking or climbing, whatever time he left, he would have taken a flashlight. It's one of the 10 essentials -- many experienced hikers routinely carry a light in their pack, just in case. (For me, it's a headlamp.)
scooter

climber
fist clamp
Sep 17, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Maybe we could/should combine this thread and the Mazzy Star thread into a cat lovers/collectors thread?
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 17, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
Good information Donna! The photos of that bike path next to the road also goes along with Gwyn's vision of a "wide road".


LA Hiker, what do you think of Gwyn's vision of the 1930s couple, and the fact that there was a couple buried on the east face of banner ------- I think I read that right.

Do you know if anyone has searched the east face of banner?
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 17, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
Pacarockhound,

Based on giantbrookie's post in this High Sierra Topix thread, I've been having a hard time figuring out which side of Banner has the Conrad and Anna Redenbacher gravesite (Edit: it should be spelled Rettenbacher), and whether that is also where they died (which seems likely but not certain). I bet this would be clearer to climbers and hikers familiar with the area.

Regarding whether the east side of Banner has been searched, it appears that the answer is yes, to some extent. Here's a link:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2218277#msg2218277

Alpineholydog also went near there:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2220020#msg2220020

That guy David with the great photo essay went close to there on his climb up Ritter -- he apparently has some photos of the east side of Banner. I think some of Cragman's searches took him near that area but would have to double-check when I have more time.

Also, if Gwyn later said she thought the spirits of the Redenbachers may have been helpful to Matt or aware of his situation, does that mean he necessarily had his accident on Banner? Though her vision definitely makes one pay more attention to that area.
Hikesfortheview

Social climber
Sep 17, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
Here is information about the grave mentioned above

http://www.stanford.edu/~galic/rettenbacher/deadends.html

It leads to this which is very informative about accidents in that location

http://www.stanford.edu/~galic/rettenbacher/accidents.html

There are other interesting old graves in Mammoth. One is the Gibbs (in the meadow below Mammoth Rock) and Townsend, in Historic Mill City off of Old Mammoth Road on the way to the Lake Basin. I have walked by Gibbs and Townsend on numerous occasions so thought anyone interested/able to communicate has options. I have enough trouble communicating with live people but I won't question any effort to find answers.

While I was searching around for info I found this article.
http://www.forensicmag.com/articles/2007/01/case-number-03-0929-murder-mammoth-lakes#.UjjI8RzXOpp
Interesting for a few reasons. It's by Shady Rest, it points out that in 25 years Mammoth only had 3 murders (Foul play VERY unlikely compared to hiking accidents as stated above) plus the detective on this case sounds amazing. He has since retired but that article led me to this one. Wow.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/03/can-this-dog-solve-the-black-dahlia-homicide.html




LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 17, 2013 - 07:46pm PT
Donna, thanks for the links!

It looks like I was spelling Rettenbacher wrong. From the same website you found, this page has the index:

http://www.stanford.edu/~galic/rettenbacher/index.html

Apparently that website is deliberately vague about the location of the gravesite, but other sources say it's North Glacier pass and that the Rettenbachers were found "on a glacier at the base of the northeast face of Banner Peak" and that they were buried about a quarter of a mile away in a meadow.
http://www.examiner.com/article/high-sierra-is-final-resting-site-for-young-couple-after-early-climbing-accident

Edit: Despite what the article says, it looks like the Rettenbachers are buried in or near North Glacier Pass, to the northwest of Banner.

Here's a report from a trip to Mt. Ritter that passed the grave:
http://www.theradioroom.org/LkCatherine/LakeCatherine.htm

Paul Dostie does sound like an awesome detective -- it's a bummer he's retired.



pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 17, 2013 - 11:33pm PT
I'm back.

I'm going to ask Gwyn to look over recent posts. I am going to look them over now too.

LA Hiker , true Gwyn sensing the Rettenbackers around doesn't necessarily mean it was the same place, as the spirit world is everywhere...

that mention of their grave in the meadow-------that sounds like Gwyn's description of tall grass or plants......

Wonder what would happen if one of you contacted that retired detective? maybe he could help unofficially? I wonder what he thinks about his dog being a help or no at this point.

All the references to banner I have seen have been northeast. Nothing due east. Edit: after reading the links above, it sounds like the Rettenbackers fell from the east side of Banner but were buried at the foot of the west side of Banner Peak.---in a meadow -

-
Has that area been searched?
How far is that from Shady Oaks campground?
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Sep 18, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
Blue Crag and impromptu patriarchal cross ...
Credit: T H
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 18, 2013 - 06:22pm PT
Pacarockhound,

Reading the reports carefully, I agree that though the Examiner piece says the Rettenbachers died climbing the east face of Banner, it appears that they died climbing the west side of Banner from near Lake Catherine. They fell from one of the buttresses of the mountain on that side down onto the glacier on the west side of the peak.

It looks like they were buried 1/4 mile from the glacier, near North Glacier Pass. (Note that that's to the northwest of Banner, not to the east. It would have made no sense to carry their bodies around to the other side of Banner -- it's extremely rugged terrain!)

As to whether the area has been searched, I think mattyj's search looked down that side of the mountain:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2206829#msg2206829

I think a fair amount of people climb Banner Peak from the Lake Catherine area, but am not sure. Another question is whether, on a day hike, Matt would have gone that way. To me, it seems to be the long way 'round. I guess he might have fallen in that direction even if he had come up another way.

Finally, the area around Banner, like the rest of the Ritter Range, is very far from the Shady Rest campground. It is 10 miles from the campground to Agnew Meadows, the closest trailhead to that area. That's why people think Matt had a ride to the trailhead. I think it's around another 10 miles to the east side (the near side) of Ritter and Banner (and some of that involves climbing rock or glaciers and hence is slow going) -- others can correct me here. I'm guessing it's longer to Lake Catherine.

The map that Kellydoesn'tclimb has been working on may be helpful:
https://mapsengine.google.com/map/viewer?mid=zH95mGu2yK0M.k0POTplcpetE
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 18, 2013 - 11:56pm PT
Thank you LA Hiker for the clarification.

I have been looking at maps of Mammoth until I am cross-eyed and still can't get a sense of it. Kellydoesn't climb's map shows locations on top of locations on my computer, so that doesn't work.....

I do, however, live 15 minutes from Old Route 395 and I am tempted to hop in my car and drive straight there! (But can't due to work, etc.)

So.........I did look up the two gravesites in Mammoth and will pass on that info to Gwyn, should she want to contact them. One of gravesites is for father and son, and the other is for a woman. So the image she got of a couple in the 1930s had to be the Rettenbachers.

I read a lot about the Rettenbachers written by Galic from Stanford. I am thinking of contacting him....No one knew the Retttenbachers were missing for 10 days also!

I am curious about the last phone call from Matt possibly being at Mammoth Mountain, the evening of the 16th. Has that ping been traced yet (or whatever the jargon is)?

I have friends who were in Mammoth last week (I didn't know it til I saw them today.)They said they saw no Matt Greene posters anywhere......is there someone who could put some up in Mammoth?
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 19, 2013 - 07:31pm PT
This is response from Harv Galic, who so thoroughly researched and wrote about the Rettenbachers, who died hiking Banner Mtn in the 1930s.



Wendy, I am painfully aware of Matt's disappearance. I came back from
the Sierra yesterday, and I can tell you that the 'missing' posters
are everywhere: at trailheads, national park's enter/exit stations,
forest service ranger station, etc. Actually, I was climbing in the
Minarets (which would be an area of high interest to Matt, and close
to his last known location) in the last week of July. At that time
Matt's disappearance was not yet known, but I didn't see anything
suspicious. However, that means nothing. Even if hundreds of people
were to comb the Minarets, they could still easily miss finding any
clues.

Interesting vision/meditation by your friend, but there was no coffin
in the Rettenbachers case. Their bodies were placed in two simple
canvas bags and buried together in a very shallow grave.

For the sake of family and friends, I wish there is a closure to
Matthew's case, and soon. However, the first snow may come to the
Ritter Range and nearby high mountains as soon as this weekend.

-Harv

The coffin imagery not matching doesn't really bother me. I interpret that as Gwyn's unconscious wishes, or how they would have been buried by their family if they had known.......
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 28, 2013 - 07:50pm PT
I spoke with Gwyn today to see if she has received any more info from the Rettenbachers regarding Matt's disappearance or whereabouts.

She told me her 8 year old grandson invited her to a drumming circle last week and they were all asked to give a prayer for someone. She said she sent Matt loving energy and light, and surrendered to spirit, asking that the Great Spirit be with him and guide him (did I mention she is a Choctaw Indian?)
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Nov 10, 2013 - 12:10am PT
Credit: T H
Todd Quinn

Trad climber
Oceanside, CA
Feb 5, 2014 - 11:11pm PT
Hello to all, my name is Todd. I want to thank everyone for pulling together your thoughts on where to look for Matthew Greene. I share Matt's story with professional SAR teams and I learned about a special team in Arizona called Find Me. The group is currently trying to help find Doc. Hugues Bellevue missing in Mexico. Kelly Snyder the founder is ex-DEA and he bridges Law enforcement and Psychics together to solve murder cases. Find Me can help bring psychics back to the search to find Matt. The focus group of psychics produce results and different teams can start coming together.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Mar 13, 2014 - 08:58pm PT
Good ideas!
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2014 - 11:10am PT
FWIW, I did reach out to Find Me and give them all I had and they agreed to look into it, but I really haven't heard from them since.

I had another psychic reach out to me and again, knowing nothing of the area, just wanted to pass it along:

"The pacific crest trail
obsidian dome
devils postpile
I feel this is where u need be looking.I feel his leg is hurt again.He is warm,because he is not near the surface.
he says racebikes and parasailing and red flannelette and bandana,and his bed in ground ,buried under the fire.and .,in a circle/middle.,tallest/highest trees and longest ravine,.and coyote,sheepland..also high look high,and landmark with time.burnt trees whose ben?and rob?
devils pass canyon. geen car tyres."

Thanks anyone who is still in touch. The searches will resume soon and hopefully we can get some closure this summer.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Jun 2, 2014 - 04:12pm PT
Thank for this! I hope progress can be made soon...Devil's Postpile seems to be coming up in several places lately.....
Mtnmun

Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
Jun 2, 2014 - 04:20pm PT
I hiked through there a few days ago. Burnt trees are prevalent south of Devils Postpile. Talked to a night hiker who was accosted by a mountain lion over the weekend. A thrown rock and her dog scared it off. Do not hike here at night. There was a Matt Green poster at the trailhead.
T H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Jul 26, 2014 - 10:25pm PT
Crystal Crag
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