Mammoth topography in regards to Visions (FindMattGreene)

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pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 16, 2013 - 02:51am PT
Great job!

I am wondering how many people searched this weekend, and where.

Also hope this info in such a concise form can be shared with those on the ground.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 16, 2013 - 03:02am PT
One more thought.

There must be a Mammoth Lakes Business Association, Chamber of Commerce, etc.

Also, Yosemite and even that town in Nevada with possible sighting -

Can the Find Matt Greene poster (and/or video)be sent to them?

They can then send to all their members.

I can do this if you want.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 16, 2013 - 03:09am PT
Thanks, Pacarockhound!

I hope people familiar with the area (and/or with the dreams and visions) can look this material over, add other areas, and correct any errors before it's shared with others.

Regarding sharing this with people on the ground, I think it's only effective to share this sort of material with those who are open to it. After all, this set of criteria emphasizes dreams and visions as strongly as practical things, which is a little weird and experimental.

Also, different people may quite reasonably weigh different features differently. For instance, if you rule out all areas without snow, you're back with the Ritter Range area and with any places Matt might have gone on the way (as well as any more distant places with snow he might have gotten a ride to).

But maybe some of the areas I mentioned could be the basis of some non-technical searches...
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Sep 16, 2013 - 03:17am PT
That's a very impressive organization of a lot of miscellaneous ideas, LA Hiker. If only the thread dealing with purely material clues were that organized!
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 16, 2013 - 03:21am PT
Thanks, Jan!

In fairness to the other thread, I think I must say that SplitPants has made amazing compilations of info from that thread and other sources (timelines, info known, gear, etc.), but at the moment they're rather far down in that thread. (I can put in some links tomorrow -- right now must conk out.)

Some of SplitPants's compilations are based on Tiffany's excellent collections of info. Kellydoesntclimb has created and regularly updates a map of places of interest; others have annotated maps as well. Cragman's reports are wonderful and moving documents, and HighTraverse has drawn search areas onto Tom Cochrane's panoramic aerial photos. Not to mention much sound logic, good reasoning, caring and positivity by a host of others, and most important, the patience and perseverance of Matt's family and friends during a very difficult time.

We have a lot of talent and passion here. I hope we can find Matt!
Jan

Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
Sep 16, 2013 - 03:51am PT
Yes, many people have contributed a lot of valuable information. Some have even commented that it was too much information. That's why I like what you did. It's concise enough it's not overwhelming.
cookzie

Social climber
Pennsylvania
Sep 16, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
I came across this today and thought that it matched one of the psychic's visions...the one about the couple from a different era.

http://www.highsierratopix.com/community/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3627

"...I was there in 1973 to climb Ritter and Banner (did Ritter via the west face hence the route through the Ritter Lakes). Glacier Pass is very easy (class 1 to 2), although you pass this ominous gravesite on the way up "Here lies Conrad and Anna Redenbacher". I didn't know what that was all about until reading Allsup's excellent "Missing in the Minarets". Apparently they were a couple killed in 1934 on the east face of Banner (whose bodies, like Starr's, were found by Norman Clyde). I vividly remember Catherine and especially Ritter Lakes as having been the most beautiful lakes I had ever seen up to that time. Unbelievably deep blue. Walking from Catherine around the corner to the Ritter Lakes was trivial--mixed talus (not particularly hard as I recall) with some easy bedrock--all class 1 to 2 stuff."
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 16, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
That is fascinating. I will pass that info onto my friend who had that vision of the couple....

In terms of searching for Matt------I guess this could mean several things.

1. He hiked past this grave
2. He ran into trouble near this grave
3. .......?

Noteworthy: "the unbelievable deep blue....."

**
AND, most important - has this gravesite area been searched??????**

East face of the Minaret....? edit: rather, east face of Banner
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 16, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
Is this the area where gravesite is?

This is from a post on searching the minaret glacier that Cragman wrote awhile back:
//
As I was driving down south this morning, I was thinking of where my next area of search might be....and since my left foot is gonna hinder me for the next couple of weeks, perhaps there is a team that might be keen on searching this particular spot.

It would be the shoulder just below the direct east face of Clyde Minaret and above Cecile Lake, wrapping around to the north, ending at the south side of the main gully that I climbed into below the glacier.

If Matthew came in via the Red's trailhead, with the intent of gaining the east glacier, he may have traversed this area. Cup and I simply did not have time to include it in our last foray posted herein, other than to glass it with binoculars.

It should be implicitly said that this area should only be searched by people with a strong climbing background!!!! The area is not overtly steep, and is mostly 2nd to 4th class, but there is LOTS of loose talus and scree, making it VERY dangerous!

If anyone is interested, I would be glad to talk more with you about it...leave a message here and I will PM ya.

Thanks,
DR Italic Text//

Has anyone searched here yet?
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 17, 2013 - 12:15am PT

My psychic friend who had the vision of the couple from the 1930s being buried did another meditation this afternoon and this is what she got:


MATTHEW GREENE


9/16/2013

A meadow, waist-high grass, dry, straw-like; a few trees, maybe Oak. I thought of snakes in the meadow grass here, hard to see them... remembering Wendy's “Snake” River... might he have been bitten by a snake?


A stream nearby or running through or at the edge, of the meadow, maybe near the trees. Is that stream called "Snake" something? Is this the same stream where I saw the red vehicle trying to cross? The dirt road dips down to the creek bed and crosses it. The wheels of the vehicles roll through the water of the stream to cross.

A Cafe. He ate there. I got the taste of dill pickles-- he ate them before he left. May have left from there to hike. Did he like dill pickles? Cafe is in a forested area, or among trees... a campground?

Perhaps a medium could contact the Redenbachers, the couple who died there & were buried there in the 1930's. I picked them up during my last meditation. I think they may have helped Matt after he passed, or are at least aware of what happened. --Gwyn
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 17, 2013 - 01:48am PT
I just ran across this post from Friend Lost in Mammoth thread, aug 25th
from Tiffany I think-----I hadn't seen this before

Pretty sure Head gasket blew around July 4th; had to wait for holiday to pass to get car into shop. Confirming w my parents. Can you say longest repair ever?

It was so much time, I think he did anything and everything to pass the time. His friends did say all his clohes were clean, folded, organized like he'd just done laundry. No doubt preparing to leave town.

Ok, going to go off on a tangent here. Not sure if none believes in psychics. I don't usually bother with them but when there are no other clues, well, several of us did touch base with them. About the only interesting one was the following:

-She feels to look within a mile radius of where his car is. (That would have been the garage where it was being fixed.) She sees a walkway/road with a rail of some sort, from there if you look over it, there is water. She feels he fell, didn't get severely injured from the fall but needed help and didn't have reception. Feels he was bit by a snake in his calf and he may be in a ravine. She said she had seen this over and over. If she sees anything additional she will call me.-

The other thing that has been bugging Matt's friends is that all the evidence seems to indicate that Matt spent the day of the 16th in town. We saw that he “liked” and commented on an article on Summitpost on a topic that indicated he was just killing time. His laundry was clean and folded. He went to Rite Aid. His campsite was paid for that night. So we assume that he went off for a day hike on the morning of the 17th. His phone records show that he spoke to the garage on the 16th and was told the car would be done on the 18th. The confusing thing is that Detective Hornbeck and Bill Green said that his calls at 8:12 and 3:09 on the 16th were from town (according to the ping off the tower) and the 4:30-4:35 calls to/from the garage were pinging from on top of mammoth or north of there. Which makes no sense. Why would he be in town all day and then go up to mountain.



------------------------------------------------------------------------



So, Andrea (one of Matt's friends that went back out), has been keeping in touch w Donna (driver out there who was super helpful) and they've been relaying back and forth.

One of the possibilities discussed was Earthquake Vault: in a MSG from Donna: "Just got back from a hike up at the Earthquake Fault with a friend. Spent a hour and a half there. Mile from town, ravine, railing, no water, no snakes. You can get cell phone reception there just a bit North, East of the mountain. Hiked along the rim. Did not go into the bottom. Parts of it are very steep and cant get into it, at least someone my age cant but someone younger could go down in there and check it out. Might be a bit dangerous. Funny thing is that there is a trail my friend said that goes from Shady Rest Campground directly to the Earthquake Fault. Don't believe much in psychics, but I'm thinking I may change my mind here. "

One of Donna's friends also said, "If he did stay in town and the first psychic is accurate, then he could have walked up the bike path on Lake Mary Rd. Once you get up toward Tamarack, there is a rushing creek that is a big drop down into a ravine and I think a railing. Maybe the cell phone ping from the mountain would occur if he were up there?"

So everyone, take that for what you will. Wanted to share; might be easy quick places to search and prove psychic right or wrong.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 17, 2013 - 02:09am PT
Pacarockhound,

Thanks for reposting that. Tiffany and Donna's messages are why I included the Earthquake Fault Trail in my list of places. But I hadn't noticed the part about Lake Mary road, the ravine, and the railing. Though it sounds like a very well-traveled area, it would probably be worth double-checking. Maybe Donna has some thoughts on this.
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Sep 17, 2013 - 04:04am PT
... there is a trail ... that goes from Shady Rest Campground directly to the Earthquake Fault.
Not so.
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 17, 2013 - 04:42am PT
Perhaps a wording problem? Maybe a road rather than a trail? I believe the speaker lives in Mammoth Lakes and is basing that comment on first hand experience?
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
extraordinaire
Sep 17, 2013 - 05:10am PT
Agreed - you could get there by different roads etc, but the statement as was posted is fairly misleading (wrong).
Hikesfortheview

Social climber
Sep 17, 2013 - 09:13am PT
I am a different Donna, not a bus driver and I didn't go to the Earthquake fault.

I believe I explained, in the early days of the FB page, that there is a bike/walking path that is paved that goes up to the Lake Basin. It's right along the road, so a smart way to go if you want to try to catch a ride with someone going fishing.

There are several fences along the way protecting travelers from the steep drop off.

Another way up to the Lake Basin is the dirt trail that starts at Sherwin road and heads by Mammoth Rock. (this is where the other type of old fence is, the barb wire/old wood.

All of the trails are very well traveled but not much early early a.m. If Matt went off trail or fell off trail, he could be missed.

I don't think Mammoth Lakes has snake issues at the elevation we are at.

Question? Did Matt have a flashlight with him? If he did, you know he left early. If he didn't, that is questionable.

Here is a link and photo (I hope) of Lake Mary road with the bike path beside it http://www.mammothtrails.org/trail/8/lakes-basin-path/

The Earthquake fault is not in this area but if you use that link you can have a better understanding of the trail system around Mammoth.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 17, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Hi Donna,

Thanks for clarifying and for the link to the Lakes Basin Path. The fence in the picture that came up in that link looks a bit like the other one Tyler saw -- not the one near where Matt was falling but the one where he was standing on a broad path or road looking at the mountains.

I didn't realize that there are two different Donnas involved and that it was the other one who went to the Earthquake Fault!

Based on this map of the "Blue Diamond" cross-country ski trail system, it looks like (if one wanted to) one could get to the Earthquake Fault area from Shady Rest using an long and very roundabout bunch of trails -- am I reading the map right? But as you indicate, it would make a lot more sense just to take the road.
http://www.cityconcierge.com/mammoth-lakes/community/Maps/bluediamond.jpg

Regarding whether Matt had a flashlight, I agree that without one, he wouldn't have gone walking before dawn. But it's my impression that if Matt had planned to spend the day hiking or climbing, whatever time he left, he would have taken a flashlight. It's one of the 10 essentials -- many experienced hikers routinely carry a light in their pack, just in case. (For me, it's a headlamp.)
scooter

climber
fist clamp
Sep 17, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Maybe we could/should combine this thread and the Mazzy Star thread into a cat lovers/collectors thread?
pacarockhound

Social climber
Escondido CA
Sep 17, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
Good information Donna! The photos of that bike path next to the road also goes along with Gwyn's vision of a "wide road".


LA Hiker, what do you think of Gwyn's vision of the 1930s couple, and the fact that there was a couple buried on the east face of banner ------- I think I read that right.

Do you know if anyone has searched the east face of banner?
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 17, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
Pacarockhound,

Based on giantbrookie's post in this High Sierra Topix thread, I've been having a hard time figuring out which side of Banner has the Conrad and Anna Redenbacher gravesite (Edit: it should be spelled Rettenbacher), and whether that is also where they died (which seems likely but not certain). I bet this would be clearer to climbers and hikers familiar with the area.

Regarding whether the east side of Banner has been searched, it appears that the answer is yes, to some extent. Here's a link:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2218277#msg2218277

Alpineholydog also went near there:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2220020#msg2220020

That guy David with the great photo essay went close to there on his climb up Ritter -- he apparently has some photos of the east side of Banner. I think some of Cragman's searches took him near that area but would have to double-check when I have more time.

Also, if Gwyn later said she thought the spirits of the Redenbachers may have been helpful to Matt or aware of his situation, does that mean he necessarily had his accident on Banner? Though her vision definitely makes one pay more attention to that area.
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