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Sep 10, 2013 - 12:38pm PT
Ron wrote, "They DIDNT write their reps saying hell no. On that you may rely.."

You're wrong there. My brother and I both wrote our reps saying "don't do it"

And we're both fairly left dems.

Not sure where you're getting your info from but none of my dem friends want to drop bombs...

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Sep 10, 2013 - 12:39pm PT

"Obummer has had this planned since his red line speech Locker"...

Due to my ignorance I was not aware of this...

Can you PLEASE post conclusive PROOF of your above statement???...


Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Sep 10, 2013 - 12:53pm PT


you sort of skipped right by my simple request for PROOF of something you sounded very certain of...




Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:05pm PT

Additional War is most likely about to be avoided due to President Obama and company...

But again, that means NOTHING!!!...


Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
This thread has been "Ron'd". Think about it: we are debating US foreign policy with Ron, with Werner chiming in.

Can there be a more useless activity?

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:17pm PT

"They're reduced to condemning an American President for threatening to use military force against an Islamic dictator for gassing 400 children to death 300 miles from Jerusalem."...

I'd bank on it that if there were a Republican in office currently that they would be fuking jumping all over it calling for WAR...

Such fuking hypocrites!!!...

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
patrick compton

Trad climber
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
This thread has been "Ron'd". Think about it: we are debating US foreign policy with Ron, with Werner chiming in.

Can there be a more useless activity?

Lol. yes!

An equally useless activity is reading Rong's 'ethical' thread bombs. boltz iz bad, trad was only good in the 80s... blah, (fart)

there is no discussion with El Ronito. He iz rite, all da time!

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:28pm PT

"I find that using a handgun as a deterrent to crime is much more effective if criminals actually believe you are willing to pull the trigger."...


Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:29pm PT
I'm glad no American Bombs are falling on Damascus. President Obama electing to not throw deadly rocks over the fence is encouraging... for the moment.


Sep 10, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
This recent action by the Soviets is noteworthy in that, it at least seems, we were in a bigger bind than were they. In light of this it is worth the time to read Frank von Hippel's account of how nuclear reductions were achieved during Gorbachev's term in office. von Hippel discusses how the technical and governmental people in Russia worked with their counterparts to explore the options available.

It is just possible we can benefit by modifying somewhat the thought processes we adopted during the cold war.

Based upon the horrific struggle conducted by the Soviets at Stalingrad to defeat Hitler's 6th army, the destruction of their land, and their twenty million dead provides the rationale for their forming buffer states and suggests, now that Stalin and Khrushchev are both dead, that the people over there are not anxious for more war. My neighbor was just over there expecting to see people courageously enduring a poverty and a discouragement not seen anywhere else. He found people pursuing the good life much as it is pursued here.

These are trends we would be foolish to ignore completely.


Social climber
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Now that this has been handled via diplomacy the echo chamber will be screeching that we need to bomb Syria.

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Sep 10, 2013 - 01:59pm PT

"Go to the smaller cities or any rural area, and one will definitely see people courageously enduring poverty."...

True here as well...

Only we do it while eating Twinkies and rolling the isles of Wal Mart...



Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Sep 10, 2013 - 02:02pm PT

"Ahem,, Locker,, since when do "deterents" do diddly?"...

Have you been paying ANY attention to the News???...


you're KILLING me over here dude!!!...


Trad climber
Sep 10, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
Some people have the old cognitive dissonance running strong, front and center. If more folks could only kick their own asses I believe CD would go the way of polio.... frikkin partisan hacks.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 12, 2013 - 12:28am PT
Putin today in the New York Times, op-ed...

Putin warns the UN could suffer the same fate as its precursor, the League of Nations, if "influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization".


Are some things true even if George W. Bush believed them?

Thomas Friedman

Sep 12, 2013 - 09:26am PT
After diplomatically spanking Obama and Kerry by allowing their misuse of words to trap them in to something other than what they wished, the leader of Russia weighs in on this conflict.

Published: September 11, 2013

MOSCOW — RECENT events surrounding Syria have prompted me to speak directly to the American people and their political leaders. It is important to do so at a time of insufficient communication between our societies.

Relations between us have passed through different stages. We stood against each other during the cold war. But we were also allies once, and defeated the Nazis together. The universal international organization — the United Nations — was then established to prevent such devastation from ever happening again.

The United Nations’ founders understood that decisions affecting war and peace should happen only by consensus, and with America’s consent the veto by Security Council permanent members was enshrined in the United Nations Charter. The profound wisdom of this has underpinned the stability of international relations for decades.

No one wants the United Nations to suffer the fate of the League of Nations, which collapsed because it lacked real leverage. This is possible if influential countries bypass the United Nations and take military action without Security Council authorization.

The potential strike by the United States against Syria, despite strong opposition from many countries and major political and religious leaders, including the pope, will result in more innocent victims and escalation, potentially spreading the conflict far beyond Syria’s borders. A strike would increase violence and unleash a new wave of terrorism. It could undermine multilateral efforts to resolve the Iranian nuclear problem and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and further destabilize the Middle East and North Africa. It could throw the entire system of international law and order out of balance.

Syria is not witnessing a battle for democracy, but an armed conflict between government and opposition in a multireligious country. There are few champions of democracy in Syria. But there are more than enough Qaeda fighters and extremists of all stripes battling the government. The United States State Department has designated Al Nusra Front and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant, fighting with the opposition, as terrorist organizations. This internal conflict, fueled by foreign weapons supplied to the opposition, is one of the bloodiest in the world.

Mercenaries from Arab countries fighting there, and hundreds of militants from Western countries and even Russia, are an issue of our deep concern. Might they not return to our countries with experience acquired in Syria? After all, after fighting in Libya, extremists moved on to Mali. This threatens us all.

From the outset, Russia has advocated peaceful dialogue enabling Syrians to develop a compromise plan for their own future. We are not protecting the Syrian government, but international law. We need to use the United Nations Security Council and believe that preserving law and order in today’s complex and turbulent world is one of the few ways to keep international relations from sliding into chaos. The law is still the law, and we must follow it whether we like it or not. Under current international law, force is permitted only in self-defense or by the decision of the Security Council. Anything else is unacceptable under the United Nations Charter and would constitute an act of aggression.

No one doubts that poison gas was used in Syria. But there is every reason to believe it was used not by the Syrian Army, but by opposition forces, to provoke intervention by their powerful foreign patrons, who would be siding with the fundamentalists. Reports that militants are preparing another attack — this time against Israel — cannot be ignored.

It is alarming that military intervention in internal conflicts in foreign countries has become commonplace for the United States. Is it in America’s long-term interest? I doubt it. Millions around the world increasingly see America not as a model of democracy but as relying solely on brute force, cobbling coalitions together under the slogan “you’re either with us or against us.”

But force has proved ineffective and pointless. Afghanistan is reeling, and no one can say what will happen after international forces withdraw. Libya is divided into tribes and clans. In Iraq the civil war continues, with dozens killed each day. In the United States, many draw an analogy between Iraq and Syria, and ask why their government would want to repeat recent mistakes.

No matter how targeted the strikes or how sophisticated the weapons, civilian casualties are inevitable, including the elderly and children, whom the strikes are meant to protect.

The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded.

We must stop using the language of force and return to the path of civilized diplomatic and political settlement.

A new opportunity to avoid military action has emerged in the past few days. The United States, Russia and all members of the international community must take advantage of the Syrian government’s willingness to place its chemical arsenal under international control for subsequent destruction. Judging by the statements of President Obama, the United States sees this as an alternative to military action.

I welcome the president’s interest in continuing the dialogue with Russia on Syria. We must work together to keep this hope alive, as we agreed to at the Group of 8 meeting in Lough Erne in Northern Ireland in June, and steer the discussion back toward negotiations.

If we can avoid force against Syria, this will improve the atmosphere in international affairs and strengthen mutual trust. It will be our shared success and open the door to cooperation on other critical issues.

My working and personal relationship with President Obama is marked by growing trust. I appreciate this. I carefully studied his address to the nation on Tuesday. And I would rather disagree with a case he made on American exceptionalism, stating that the United States’ policy is “what makes America different. It’s what makes us exceptional.” It is extremely dangerous to encourage people to see themselves as exceptional, whatever the motivation. There are big countries and small countries, rich and poor, those with long democratic traditions and those still finding their way to democracy. Their policies differ, too. We are all different, but when we ask for the Lord’s blessings, we must not forget that God created us equal.

Vladimir V. Putin is the president of Russia."


Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Sep 12, 2013 - 10:39am PT
Putin is a master politician. This article is really interesting for quite a few reasons.

Just one of which is he makes a great point about the importance of the UN and the risks of it becoming impotent and how that could destabilize the world.

Interesting that he carefully avoids the counterpoint such that those nations with veto power can cause the same problem when they shield other nations from proper repercussions. I'm not arguing for a strike on Syria. But Russia China and even the US have a habit of shielding their buddies egregious actions by Veto, (Israel anyone?)

Both issues have the ability of making the UN a laughingstock.

Anyway this is a very unusual move and it seems the issue is pretty darn more serious than even I thought if Putin feels the need to talk directly to us.
Forrest B.

Trad climber
Sep 12, 2013 - 11:08am PT
It is serious. As stated before by others this is not about WMD's. It's about gas, and power. Putin kicked the Rothschilds and their chronies to the curb, paid off all IMF debt, and took control of his country and it's finances back from the Banking and coorporate oligarchs, as well as banning all GMO products. The powers that be do not like this, and are basically waging war on Russia. Syria is about natural gas. Taking Russia's profit center away. Russia is not our enemy. He is fighting our enemy, and is a voice in the world for progress against the oppresive tryrants in the banking world. Hungary followed suit, and Iceland is on a rampage arresting all sorts of Rothschilds chronies, and brining them to justice.

Everything we do is in the interest of the Zionist, and the financial kabals, and the price of ebt to the american people. Debt is our Tyrant. Russia, Hungary, and Iceland have all dealt or are dealing with their Tyrants. We should too.

Not to mention it is clear now that Assad most likely did not use any WMD's. Putin, is reaching out for good measure. He is trying to enlighten the American people to stand up, for what is right.

Obummer and his goons are puppets, and all you supporters are just idjets.

Sep 12, 2013 - 11:14am PT
Forrest B. gets it completely.

NYT stupid puppet news organization which only fools follow them.

NYT is no better then fox news.

Americans are so brainwashed ......

(only 1 in ten here have a brain)
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