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John Mac

Trad climber

Littleton, CO

Aug 22, 2013 - 01:28pm PT

My recommendation would be to try to keep things as simple as possible and then incorporate things like tagging later if needed.

Good luck with your trip.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Aug 22, 2013 - 01:38pm PT

At the very least tagging a bag up is going to cost you 45 minutes. In my three solos, 60 or 70 pitches, I've actually needed to tag to get more gear probably once, maybe twice. On my next solo I'm thinking that I'll tag only the haul line and haul kit and eliminate the "tag bag" altogether.

If you eliminated it completely, you would have to lead off the anchor with the haul kit and haul line. It would save you a ton of time and maybe quite a bit of agony (see my Iron Hawk TR).

MattF

Trad climber

Bend, Or

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2013 - 02:10pm PT

Hmm... So would you just leave the rest of the lead line stacked in a rope bag on the anchor, but the end would be free? As you lead the rope pulls out of the bag, and when the end of it pulls out of the bag, it would just dangle there? Or would you clip the haul line to the end of the lead line so that you could pull up the haul line?

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Aug 22, 2013 - 02:18pm PT

Either way. I think I'd go with it being tied to the haul line (which would be in its own bag). That way you aren't dragging the haul line any more than you need to.

John Mac

Trad climber

Littleton, CO

Aug 22, 2013 - 03:07pm PT

This might help with the process. I'd highly recommend spending some time doing some shorter routes getting your systems dialed in. If you aren't able to do that, at least practice at a crag or two.

Summary of my sequence:

1. Tie the lead line and the haul line together. You end up having a single length of rope about 120-140 meters long. Its called continuous loop in big wall jargon. All it really means is that you aren't climbing with the weight of the haul line off the back of your harness.

To reduce even more the weight you can add a smaller diameter cord between the lead line and the haul line, like 80 - 100 feet of 7mm, with the haul device, etc. Just means less weight but another thing to manage.

2. Attach Lead line to anchor and incorporate screamer

3. Attach haul line to haul bag.

4. Stack ropes perfectly into a double whammy haul bag or two separate haul bags. I LOVE the Snake Charmer by Fish! Edited to change the name!

5. Attach lead line to solo device (highly recommend silent partner) from the anchor. Test and double test. Take entire rack or what you think you need.

6. Lead the pitch using about 6 foot long loops (klemheist knots) to stop the rope from snaking down to the anchor. A couple a pitch should be adequate.

7. Get to the anchor and pull up the rest of the lead line up and attach to the anchor. Almost by magic the haul line is available. Set up hauling system but don't engage cam.

8. Attach haul line to anchor with a knot.

9. Rapp down haul line.

10. Release bag

11. Clean anchor and jug lead line

12. At Anchor - do mini haul to get enough slack to feed haul line through pulley or pulleys, cam, etc.

13. Haul and attach bag using a adjustable daisy

15. Reset the anchor, stack the ropes

16. Force yourself to eat, drink and enjoy the experience.

miwuksurfer

Social climber

Mi-Wuk

Aug 22, 2013 - 03:35pm PT

I don't know if "aid" and "ninja" go together. They seem rather antonymonous.

MattF

Trad climber

Bend, Or

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2013 - 03:35pm PT

Thanks Mark - got it.

John - Thanks for the description. Thats exactly how my understanding of it goes. I like step 16. :-)

I've been practicing at the crag, but its been a bit contrived to get 2 pitches in on 80' single pitch routes. Going to go this weekend and solo a 4 pitch route on the Monkey out here at Smith, so that should be a much better real test of all the systems, and should give me a chance to get into much more of a rhythm.

Miwuk - Hah. Love that... antonymous. How about solo aid senseis?

Russ Walling

Social climber

from Poofters Froth, Wyoming

Aug 22, 2013 - 03:37pm PT

4. Stack ropes perfectly into a double whammy haul bag or two separate haul bags. I LOVE the double whammy by Fish!

The Double Whammy is actually our portaledge... what John is talking about is the Snake Charmer.

And as if by magic, you can see it right here!!!

http://fishproducts.com/catalog/big_wall.html

matty

Trad climber

under the sea

Aug 22, 2013 - 03:55pm PT

I love my double whammy!

Still going strong 12 years later

John Mac

Trad climber

Littleton, CO

Aug 22, 2013 - 04:00pm PT

Yes, I meant the Snake Charmer! Best rope bag ever made.

ms55401

Trad climber

minneapolis, mn

Aug 25, 2013 - 01:38pm PT

good posts here. I'd really like to see your final gear checklist, if you have that sort of thing documented

Paul Brennan

Trad climber

Ireland

Aug 26, 2013 - 02:12pm PT

one thing to be wary of when using the continuous loop system is the risk of the knot (where the lead line is connected to the haul line) getting jammed while climbing and stopping you cold. Its happened to me twice in around 30 or 40 pitches. Be sure to stack the ropes carefully, and if it looks like you're going to be climbing past "v" constrictions, its worth tying the haul line to the back of your harness rather than using the loop.

Mark Hudon

Trad climber

Hood River, OR

Aug 26, 2013 - 02:20pm PT

I would poo-po Paul's comment above if I hadn't experienced my many "what the F*#k" moments on Iron Hawk last year.
If I really didn't want to "tag" or even trail the haul line, I think I'd still tag up the knot and haul kit.

MattF

Trad climber

Bend, Or

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 26, 2013 - 09:29pm PT

Yeah, makes sense.

One question I have (unrelated to the continuous loop) is how essential a swivel is. I don't have one, and I seem to be having a very hard time borrowing one. Are they really worth the $40?

Rhodo-Router

Gym climber

sawatch choss

Aug 27, 2013 - 10:10am PT

from years back:

"My best advice is this: Take an extra days worth of food and water, and on the day you wake up saying to yourself "this f*#kin' sucks, I'm bailing", it'll be about the second or third day maybe, just take the entire day off, chill in your ledge, watch the swallows and falcons and other climbers and just generally enjoy the peace and the view. Maybe fix a pitch or two above the ledge if you get bored. " [not me]

This is fantastic beta.

My 2 cents:

Get some pants with big pockets,so you can carry food with you at all times. The biggest crux for me has been self-care, the largest component of which was nutrition; ie stopping to eat. You will go more slowly than you think, and skipping out on meal breaks will feel like an easy way to make up time. Don't do this.

Find a camera that will fit into one of those pockets, lest all your documentation take place at bivies. Boring.

Don't skimp on gloves.

Do not go up under constraints of time.

Gu/power-spooge nice for bonky moments, to get you through a tough hour. Protein and fat in the morning for all-day go power. Sippable water is more efficient than the periodic guzzle/piss cycle- run a camel bak. Put some ultrarunner goo in it.

Highly specific rack beta for each pitch is nice, if it doesn't spoil the adventure for ya. Carrying a giant rack is kind of a bummer.

Stick to the plan. Most clever technical improvisations end up wasting time unless very carefully thought through.

Lightweight nylon butt seat nice for sorting/stacking intervals at anchors, will save wear and tear on hips & legs.

Comfort ingestibles make the whole thing go down a lot smoother. Pick your pleasure, and don't skimp on it.

Steep is good! Avoid haulbag nightmares with good route selection. [Oh well]

"Ah, how interesting! My __ is twisted about my *(^*(, thus preventing me from @@#$#$@." Enjoy the inevitable problem-solving.

Here's the link to that thread:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=166901&tn=0&mr=0