Do I need a bear canister?

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Onewhowalksonrocks

Mountain climber
In the middle of the ocean
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 18, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
I am planning on do some back country travel out of Yosemite next week. Do I have to use the bear canister or ??. If you think I do, how can I get one without spending $90.

Can you rent me one?

Can I buy yours?

Give me some ideas ST
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
Yes...take one.

And you can rent one at most sports shops.
Onewhowalksonrocks

Mountain climber
In the middle of the ocean
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
I don't want to pay the $95.00 deposit.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
Then put together an old fashioned hang. . . with a rock bag and some stuff bags. . . you can make all that yourself.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
You can hang your food then.....but you may not get your Wilderness Permit...some offices require you to have a canister.
Byran

climber
Yosemite
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:09pm PT
I know they're required in Yosemite and they rent them at either wilderness center for $5. They take down your credit card info as a deposit, but they don't charge anything to it unless you don't bring it back. Other places that I've backpacked, they weren't required and we didn't use one and haven't had issues yet. On the one hand they're bulky and add some weight to your pack, but on the plus side you can sleep easy knowing your food will be there in the morning.

And yes, in yosemite I've had a ranger stop me on the trail and ask to see my bear can in addition to my permit.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:10pm PT
but you may not get your Wilderness Permit...some offices require you to have a canister.

Even if you're NOT in YOSE?

?

Like. . .does the INYO make you have a canister?
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
They do if your itinerary includes entering the park boundary...like out of Mono Village.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
The canisters are pretty rad. . .but. . . knowing how to rig an effective hang is invaluable. I think everybody should know how.

HA. . . kinda like knowing how to rig a rap with biners and understanding a hip belay. . . can you say:

OLD DAD?

:-)
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
I CAN.....I are one!!!!

: )
John M

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Ekat.. do you think a properly rigged hang would thwart the bears in the grand canyon of the Tuolumne? I think most of the time a hang works because the bears don't have that much experience, whereas the bears in some areas of the park seem to know all the tricks, and how to defeat them.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:41pm PT
If ya can't rig a hang to outsmart a bear.....ya best stay home.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Aug 18, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
John M is correct. Experienced bears (like those in the big Yosemite camping areas have learned how to get bagged food out of trees.

But the real question is why do you want to put a bear in a cannister?

Eric
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 18, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
A hang just slows 'em down a little.
Use one of my flamethrowers and yer probs are over.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 18, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
Hard tellin' these days, Moosie. . . but. . . I've spent an inordinate number of days in YOSE backcountry and I've never been hit.

The closest I ever came to gettin' it was on the backside of HalfDome, doin' ground and summit support for Blanchard when he did the first one day on the Regular Route. . . but. . . I rigged it so my Sigg bottle was the clapper of the bell, inside my cookpot, which hung right below our food. . . and when the sneaky SOB started reefin' on the tree, it CLANGED like nobody's business and I got up, made all kinds of noise with my whistle, threw rocks at the big ass rodent and WON THE GAME.

Bear in mind (HA, pun intended) . . . I didn't crawl in my bivy sack until I had my arsenal completely set up from head lamp and whistle right down to a PERFECT pile of rocks and sticks! AND. . . even though it was a no fire zone, I laid a perfect fire and had it ready to light in case I needed to fully get into it.

The fire was the last thing I came up with. . . I had less than half a copy of TheJoyLuck club out there and I HATED that book. . . so I used it to lay the fire.

Didn't have to light it.

And I took it all apart, schlepped out the crumpled pages and flicked the kindling back into the woods.

But. . . dood. . . I was ready to defend that food. . . I knew Blanchard was going to be one hungry mother father after that solo!

:-)

I will add. . . canisters are pretty rad. . . but. . .nothin' beats having rigging skills and backcountry smarts.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Aug 18, 2013 - 05:28pm PT
$95 sounds pretty cheap for a canister capable of holding a bear.
I assume it has air holes.
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Aug 18, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
Yosemite bears are smart. They will get your food and you'll be headed home hungry. Get the canister. You can get a Bear Vault Solo for $67. Enough for 3-4 days and it makes a nice stool.
Credit: crankster
AlpiniPete

Social climber
HA!...social. right.
Aug 18, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
I walked a section of the JMT two weeks ago that began in Inyo NF and ended in Yos. You will definitely need a bear can to be issued a back country permit for either area (and initial in agreement to "practicing adequate food storage" or some such). Developed campgrounds and car-camp sites will generally have permanent, steel bear boxes. Most ranger stations will rent bear cans for a nominal fee, as mentioned above.
Truthfully you'll more likely appreciate the protection from squirrels, marmots, and other species of mini bear. Although I chatted with one lady who, while camped in Lyell Canyon, had a bear wearing some electronic jewelry remove her pack from under the downed tree where she "secured" it and drug it around the meadow until it got bored. Needless to say they are quite habituated in popular areas. From a bear's perspective, a bright orange, ultra light pack is nothing more than an easily see-able, smell-able, ziplock bag full of untold goodies.
John M

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
Hey Ekat.

I have had a few bear encounters myself. :-) Most of the time I was able to run them off. I have been bluff charged twice for getting to close to bears in the back country. I walked smack dab into one on a dark night when I was out without a flashlight. We both about jumped out of our skins. haha.. I didnt' realize it was a bear until it got out from under the trees into the starlight. I have never lost my food to bears either. So I was just asking your experience. I hear people say that hanging works if properly done, but I just don't really know because most of the stories I hear are of people able to scare the bears off. I have seen some bears that didn't scare.

In the grand canyon of the Tuolumne a friend and I were camping back in the days when they strung wire in the trees for people to hand their food from. This was about 1977. We strung our food and this bear scampered up the tree and started banging on that wire with all of his weight. It was quite impressive. Our food bounced all around and I believe that we were pretty lucky that it didn't come down. Thankfully we followed the rules and balanced the weight fairly evenly. But one bag was still slightly heavier and it started working its way lower. Once it got to its lowest point the bear climbed down and swatted at it. He missed by less then a foot. The reason I tell this story is that we hit him with a number or rocks and he just swatted at them and went about his business. It wasn't until a few other people showed up and helped that we were able to drive this bear off. If I had been alone I don't think that I could have driven it off. So thats part of why I am not certain about hanging food in the park. It often seems like it partly depends on being able to drive a persistent bear off. At least from the stories that I have heard. I have also hung food and gone off for the day and came back and had no problems. But these were in places far from the more habituated bears.

eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 18, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
MoosieMan. . . I, too, have seen bears that wouldn't scare. . . one, in particular, was REALLY FRIGHTENING. It was up at Tamarack (Lakes Basin in Mammoth) and twin two year olds were terrorizing the place. . . my golden retriever heard them coming and I ran out with a whistle to chase them off and one of them fully charged me. . . SCARED THE SH#T OUT OF ME.

Thank goodness I was only about 10 feet outside my cabin and knew exactly where I had to run.

DANG!

aguacaliente

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
Use the dang canister. It is for the bears' good, and yours. Even if it's a small chance that your hang isn't good enough or the bear is too smart for you and gets your food, (1) it sucks to lose your food and have to go home, (2) now the bear is more conditioned to see backpackers as a source of food, and will cause more problems in the future.

The permit office will rent you a canister for about $5, they make it cheap to encourage people to use them.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Aug 18, 2013 - 06:56pm PT
Hanging is ok except for the fact black bear can climb trees and anywhere worth being in the sierra wont have trees taller than 10 feet.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:00pm PT
A few years ago we're were hanging out in the TM campground one night. The bear locker was open and we were sitting maybe 30 or so feet away, facing it. The next thing we know, there's a bear on top of the locker and she's reached down and got my Trader Joe's insulated bag! We're yelling and throwing stuff at her. My son will always remember me throwing a beer can at it. It was empty so that was kind of a joke. My friend was throwing rocks to try to hit her back. He's a crappy pitcher and threw a wild pitch that skated off something on the ground and hit her in the face. That drove her off. TJ's bag was recovered with only a bit of bear drool.

Ends up she had lost her cub and was apparently wigged out in some way by that. Well known to the rangers. The next morning, she went to town on a group from Google that obviously had not been camping before and were not that savvy with food (or other camping skills). But her move on them was particularly aggressive: she grabbed a box of energy bars from the picnic table while they were right there (had their backs turned). My son enjoyed watching her eat breakfast in a nearby glen. Hope she made it far and away from us touristas. I'm not so sure though.

How did her cub die? Number one reason for bear deaths in Yosemite: Hit by a car. Go slow on that TM road folks and help our the bears. Plus what's the rush? More time to enjoy all the treats up there!

Eric
jstan

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
Yellow Yellow reportedly, has been teaching her technique to other bears. She will teach campers also, but they have to pay her a fee.

Bear-Proof Can Is Pop-Top Picnic for a Crafty Thief
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/25/nyregion/25bear.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


By LISA W. FODERARO
Published: July 24, 2009
NORTH ELBA, N.Y. — It was built to be impenetrable, from its “super rugged transparent polycarbonate housing” to its intricate double-tabbed lid that would keep campers’ food in and bears’ paws out.

Multimedia

Graphic
Smarter Than Your Average Bear
Enlarge This Image

Nathaniel Brooks for The New York Times
A BearVault that was breached by a bear.
Enlarge This Image

Nathaniel Brooks for The New York Times
Campers in the Adirondacks are warned to beware of bears.
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The BearVault 500 withstood the ravages of the test bears at the Folsom City Zoo in California. It has stymied mighty grizzlies weighing up to 1,000 pounds in the backcountry of Yellowstone National Park.

But in one corner of the Adirondacks, campers started to notice that the BearVault, a popular canister designed to keep food and other necessities safe, was being compromised. First through circumstantial evidence, then from witness reports, it became clear that in most cases, the conqueror was a relatively tiny, extremely shy middle-aged black bear named Yellow-Yellow.

Some canisters fail in the testing stage when large bears are able to rip off the lid. But wildlife officials say that Yellow-Yellow, a 125-pound bear named for two yellow ear tags that help wildlife officials keep tabs on her, has managed to systematically decipher a complex locking system that confounds even some campers.

In the process, she has emerged as a near-mythical creature in the High Peaks region of the northeastern Adirondacks.

“She’s quite talented,” said Jamie Hogan, owner of BearVault, based in San Diego. “I’m an engineer, and if one genius bear can do it, sooner or later there might be two genius bears. We’re trying to work on a new design that we can hopefully test on her.”

His company and New York’s Department of Environmental Conservation have cautioned campers in the Adirondacks against using the BearVault because of its vulnerability here. There have been no reports of the BearVault being regularly broken into anywhere else in the country.

Bears and campers do not usually interact, and when they do it is usually over food.

Four years ago, New York State began requiring overnight campers to use bear canisters in the eastern High Peaks, a sublime wilderness favored by backpackers and black bears alike. Several national parks, including Yosemite, also require canisters.

Before they used canisters, campers often stored food in bags, typically hung from cables slung between trees, which inadvertently made for one-stop shopping for bears.

“They had learned that when they saw a bag in the air, there had to be a rope someplace and they learned to bite or slice the line,” said Neil Woodworth, executive director of the Adirondack Mountain Club, a conservation and recreation group.

The number of “negative human-bear interactions,” according to the Department of Environmental Conservation — mainly incidents in which bears approached people looking for food — dropped to 61 last year in the eastern High Peaks from 374 in 2005. But, of course, there was a problem with the solution.

BearVaults, one of several canister brands, are favored by many backpackers because they are light and can be opened with bare hands; most others require a coin or screwdriver. Like other brands, BearVaults must pass the zoo test, in which bears are given a certain amount of time to try to break into a canister filled with food.

Similar to a childproof medicine bottle, the BearVault 350 and 400 models can be opened by pressing a tab that allows the camper to screw off the lid. But reports began coming in from campers a few years ago that BearVaults were being broken into. State wildlife officials began suspecting Yellow-Yellow, one of a number of bears they have tagged and tracked as a way of studying the behavior of the more than 5,000 bears roaming the Adirondacks.

In most BearVault break-ins, Yellow-Yellow’s radio collar indicated she had been in the area. Eventually, campers began spotting her from afar rifling canisters. There have been no reports of her threatening anyone.

So last year Mr. Hogan introduced the 450, a two-pound cylinder costing about $60, and a larger version, the 500, each with a second tab. On them, a camper must press in one tab, turn the lid partway, then press the second tab to remove the lid. “We thought, ‘O.K., well, one bump didn’t work so maybe two bumps will thwart her,’ ” he said.

But Yellow-Yellow figured that lid out, too.

Last month, her achievements were noted in an article in Adirondack Explorer. And she now appears to have apprentices; campers have reported seeing other bears getting into their BearVaults.

“Yellow-Yellow seems to be the most adept at defeating it,” said David Winchell, a spokesman for the Department of Environmental Conservation’s Region 5, which covers the High Peaks. “Certainly, she is the most commonly observed in the area when it’s happening.”

It is not certain exactly how Yellow-Yellow plundered campers’ Italian sausages and granola bars, but she apparently depresses one tab with her teeth, turns the lid, uses her teeth on the second tab, and then opens it. At the Adirondack Mountain Club’s High Peaks Information Center here, where campers can rent canisters, an example of a defeated BearVault is on display: a bear’s teeth have left deep gouges in the hard plastic lid, as though it were putty.

“I don’t think she’s twisting it with her paws,” said Chuck Bruha of the Mountaineer, a camping-goods store in nearby Keene Valley. “We think she’s biting the lid and twisting her whole head.”

Ben Tabor, a state wildlife technician who has tracked Yellow-Yellow, said the evidence on the canister supports that theory. (He watched her tackle a BearVault two years ago, although he was too far away to determine her method. ) He doubts, however, that she has out-of-the-ordinary intelligence. “I don’t think she’s smarter than most bears,” he said. “I think she’s had more time to learn.”

Mr. Tabor emphasized that Yellow-Yellow, while tenacious with the BearVaults, is shy around people; she runs from them. He worries that her prowess could lead to pressure to kill her. In 2006, the agency had to kill a 350-pound black bear that had cornered campers with food inside their lean-tos, although no one was hurt. “It would be ridiculous for us to remove Yellow-Yellow at this point,” Mr. Tabor said. “She’s not bold. She doesn’t charge. She steals food but runs away when confronted.”

Mr. Hogan is working on a prototype of a new model, the 550, for next year. State officials have agreed to test it by filling it with aromatic food and depositing it on Yellow-Yellow’s turf. “She’s the whole reason we’re doing this,” he said.

NutAgain!

Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:06pm PT
Sometimes it's impossible to hang food well enough. I've had bears climb the tree, out the branch, and reach down to slice open the bag and then consume the contents in spite of our charging, shouting, smashing metal sierra cups we were banging them so hard trying to make noises.

Sometimes there is not a branch that is tall/strong enough to hang food away from the trunk, away from the ground, away from the branch itself. Sometimes it's not possible to hang a rope between two trees and then hang food from the middle. If you are going above treeline, bear canister is the only sure thing. If you have no canister above treeline, try to avoid popular camps. Even if you hid stuff in the rocks, other smaller critters will attack it.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
I've heard of bears sending cubs up trees to get hung food off of smaller branches.

I've also heard of one who climbed up, got on the branch and just let his weight break the branch, dropping everything on the ground.

Reminds me of an old joke: What's the difference between a black bear and a grizzly?

If a black bear is chasing you and you climb a tree to escape, it will climb the tree and eat you.

If a grizzly is chasing you and you climb a tree to escape, it will push the tree over and eat you.

Yes, I know it's extremely unlikely that black bears would eat humans. :-)

To round it out the bear theme, here is one of my all time favorite commercials:

eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
This came up in another thread. . . but I used to work with a guy on the INYO who put all of his food in dry bags and kept it under water. It was a trip.

Obviously, you couldn't get away with it in YOSE, since there are regulations requiring canisters. . . BUT. . . I tried it one time (on the INYO not YOSE) with some stuff I wanted to keep cold. . . and it worked.

It was brilliant.

eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
HolyShizzle. . . that John West ad is THE VERY BEST!

It was the very first video we watched on the IICi when we got it. . . the lightning fast MAC operating at a blazing 25 megahertz!

:-)

I needed tranquilizers with that thing. . . it was a rocket ship!
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
I've heard of bears sending cubs up trees to get hung food off of smaller branches.

exactly what happened to me once upon a time. The dang cub fell out with branch and all. All the whistles and pounding on Sierra Cups...ha...Momma, cub and twin gave us the finger.

Regarding other food safety thread. We are also trying out the odor proof bags this time

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=80250&msg=2204767#msg2204767


Susan
TheMaster

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
You don't need a bear canister generally speaking in Inyo. There might be a few places here and there where you are "required" to have them. Mostly they are "recommended". Personally, if they said I HAD to have one before issuing the permit, I would go elsewhere. I have NEVER used a bear canister and never will. Learn how to hang. If no hanging available, put the food outside your tent with a couple of pots and pans on it. Great alarm. IF the bears come along they will wake you up and you scare them off. Been doing this for 40 years and only had to scare a bear off twice. NEVER had any food taken.
Fletcher

Trad climber
The great state of advaita
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:27pm PT
Hey eKat, glad you like that one! Sometimes I'm just wandering around and think of it and it makes my day.

That dry bag idea is a cool one. Reminds me of this:

In non bear can required areas, what I sometimes do with food storage is try to hid the food odor as much as possible. I saw a program a long time ago that took place up in some part of Alaska (grizzly country fer sure) where there were no trees. You are a gazillion miles from BFE so how to store food. This guy had everything bagged up in indivual sealable plastic bags then organized things into larger plastic bags. He then put everything in a duffle, and that duffle in another larger duffle, and then that into yet another duffle. Then he hid the whole thing in the brush. The idea was that assuming the bear didn't stumble on it (I understand they have relatively poor eyesight), this setup makes it hard for them to smell it (they have super good senses of smell).

So my takeaway for the Sierra has been to work a bit harder to bag things up and try to eliminate smell, no matter how I store food other odor emitting items. The hope is they'll never realize it was there in the first place.

Above treeline, there ain't no hanging and if yer up there, you may be climbing which means that last thing you want is more weight with a cannister. What I've done in the past there is to bag everything up well and then stuff it into a deep crack (yeah you gotta have a deep crack handy in the first place). It should be deep enough that your arm can't retrieve it, but a long stick, trekking pole or ice axe can. Still, this might not keep out the gnawing critters.

Oh heck... my next trip I'm just going to fast! Really go lightweight. Food? Food? We don't need no steenkin' food! Har har!

Eric
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
Yeah. . . that dad's voice on the John West ad KILLS ME. . .

At the river mouth. . .

HA!

A N D . . . I worked at Wilson's Eastside Sports in Mammoth (was the ski tech) and we were the only place to buy climbing gear so lots of backcountry rangers would shop in there. A few of them had special climbing gear hangs for above timberline. I got to see some photos of some really crafty hangs out on faces with just a dicey solo move or two.

I LOVE PROBLEM SOLVERS!
Ward Trotter

Trad climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
I've heard of bears sending cubs up trees to get hung food off of smaller branches.

That happened to me at Merced Lake several years ago. I hung my bag with a long pole on the cable , but I hung it too close to the tree. A Mama bear sent her cub shimming up the tree where the cub was simply able to reach out and tear the bottom of my sack ,allowing all my food to fall to the ground. My torn grub sack was still pathetically hanging from the cable next morning.
Gene

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
Yosemite bears are smart. The smartest of the smart are the bears that carry quarters.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Aug 18, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
We are also trying out the Opsaks this trip. Supposedly sniff proof

From Loksak line of products <br/>
From Loksak line of products

Credit: Loksak website

http://www.loksak.com/mobile/opsak/

Susan
Crazy Bat

Sport climber
Birmingham, AL & Seweanee, TN
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:02pm PT
I was in Yosemite in July. A ranger there was tellling us that they now have a bear that has learned that they have a bear that has learned to fling the cannisters off a cliff, where it breaks. He/she then goes to the bottom of the cliff and pigs out.

My brother was telling me that he went to Alaska recently. Their take was way different. They piled the food in a pile, put the pots and pans on it, then kept a riffle close. Of course they are dealing with grizzlies, and planned a warning shot.
TheMaster

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:06pm PT
They piled the food in a pile, put the pots and pans on it, then kept a riffle close.

See my post just above.

I agree, the pots/pans alarm system works better than any of the rest.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
In Alaska all we had to do was rack a round of solid shot into the 12 gauge.
They know what that means.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
My current research on bear deterring is on Polar Bear rifles filled with the right kind of buckshot/rubber bullets to warn them off but no intent to greviously harm or kill. Planning a Northwest Passage next year assuming global warming continues to cooperate. Apparently traditional bear spray is a ha ha to the Polar Bears

Interestingly enough my research indicates that they are strongly recommended to be carried in some parts of the passage. And I felt burdened by bear cannisters.
Guess I'll have to get cozy with my local firing range.

Susan


Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
Susan, just use a Very on the Whiteys, with a high cal backup.
TheMaster

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:31pm PT
Personally, I find the requirement to obtain a permit to go into the wilderness revolting.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:35pm PT
Susan,

Yack with me before you go regarding bears in the arctic. Jonathon Waterman also had his share of run ins when he kayaked the NW Passage over two summers. His book about it is great. You have to read it.

We conversed back and forth a bunch when he was writing his book about the Arctic Refuge.

I'm not sure about polar bears. They are pretty curious. Actual attacks on humans are rare, but I always recommend the 12 gauge with slugs. Bring along some bird shot and maybe you will be able to snarf some waterfowl.

Here is my setup:

Credit: BASE104

The concoction is one part tang to 3 parts soy protein. A buddy of mine invented it and we call it Soylent Orange. It tastes like orange sorbet, and works well. Breakfast of champions.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
Rangers have stopped and asked to see my canister, fwiw, and also ticketed a friend of mine who had an uncanistered bottle of booze on the top of his haulbag @ the base of Liberty Cap.
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
Personally, I find the requirement to obtain a permit to go into the wilderness revolting.

I agree. If they want a permit, it ain't wilderness anymore.

The only exception was Cabeza Prieta NWR. You had to sign your life away because it is covered with military debris like unexploded things that go boom.

I won't go there anymore. The illegals have trashed it, and the border patrol is everywhere. I bet Ed would want his remains to be relocated. It is covered with empty plastic water bottles.

You get to walk through parts of the Barry Goldwater Gunnery Range. That is kind of cool.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:42pm PT
From a few days ago, while on search....note the cannister. Very nice that you can go all day, get to a bivy after dark, and not have to worry about hanging the bag.

Worth every dollar, IMHO.

Credit: Cragman
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
Yes you need one.

You can usually rent them from the rangers where you get your permit. I know they have them at Wawona and the interagency center at Lone Pine.


Be a man and get your own. They are awesome. I use my Bear Vault even when there are no bears. In the snow you can sit on them.

TheMaster

climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
I just thought of something. Poop in them during the day, store the food in them at night, and bury the whole thing somewhere before you hike out. Hmmm, I think I have just changed my mind about getting one.
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Aug 18, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
A bear canister saves the time it takes to setup a tree hang. Not to mention the lost sleep when a bear starts swiping at your bear piñata at 2AM.
abrams

Sport climber
Aug 18, 2013 - 10:30pm PT
Once you got a bear in a canister you should think twice
about letting it out as one park ranger found out.

http://forum.xcitefun.net/sudden-bear-attack-on-a-man-t41318.html


Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 18, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
Susan, just use a Very on the Whiteys, with a high cal backup.

Hmmm. Those guys will attack helicopters. Anything less than a tactical nuclear weapon is pointless.

Face-to-face with a white bear was probably the most memorable moment of my life.
Onewhowalksonrocks

Mountain climber
In the middle of the ocean
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2013 - 01:22am PT
So, No one around has one to loan or rent.

I am not going to bring my tent. Which I don't like to carry. But, maybe ??
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 19, 2013 - 02:09am PT
Face-to-face with a white bear was probably the most memorable moment of my life.

Ditto, although being kissed by a deer was right up there.
SCseagoat

Trad climber
Santa Cruz
Aug 19, 2013 - 02:13am PT
Face-to-face with a white bear was probably the most memorable moment of my life.

Oh .... More than enough reason to stay on board!!!!

Mark, will definitely chat up with you about the beta of NW Passage! Thanks
Soylent Orange
. Looks like its sitting on the bear canister with a rifle behind it??? Is that the offering to the bear to stay outta the canister....kinda carrot and stick stuff?

Susan
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Aug 19, 2013 - 02:44am PT
So, No one around has one to loan or rent.

Am not trying to be rude, but why would anyone want to loan/rent equipment, that's replacement value is at least $70+, to someone they don't know, who is not willing to pay a deposit? Plus, hooking up to give/send it to you and get it back involves time and effort.

There are lots of services already available. Your gas getting there is many times more than bear canister rental.

If you want to rent light, look here - http://www.wild-ideas.net/rent-a-bearikade/
aguacaliente

climber
Aug 19, 2013 - 02:51am PT
You can rent a bear canister from ranger stations that issue wilderness permits, some REI stores, and maybe other outdoor stores.

If you're willing to carry the bear canister, the rental cost should be a minor issue. It's much less than gas or food money.

I understand that wilderness permits are annoying, but get on a popular trail in the Sierra and you understand why they are a good idea, to keep people from loving the place to death. On an unpopular trail or at a less-crowded time, like after Labor Day, the permits become a non-issue since they don't fill up.
TheMaster

climber
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:08pm PT
I understand that wilderness permits are annoying, but get on a popular trail in the Sierra and you understand why they are a good idea, to keep people from loving the place to death. On an unpopular trail or at a less-crowded time, like after Labor Day, the permits become a non-issue since they don't fill up.

Understood. Most of the places I go are so remote I never see anybody else but I am STILL required to get a permit. I usually arrive late at night for a before dawn start and how many ranger stations are open then? None. And very few have drop-box systems. The other thing is, why do I pay? If they need to control quotas do they have to ream me also? I entered at a NP trailhead once and the darn permit cost $15! AFTER paying $20 to enter the stupid park. Give me a break. I think we should do a mass protest and all refuse to get permits. Don't carry ID with you and, if asked, your name is Mickey Mouse. Send the ticket to Disneyland.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 19, 2013 - 01:16pm PT
Then put together an old fashioned hang. . . with a rock bag and some stuff bags. . . you can make all that yourself.

Hanging doesn't cut the mustard anymore. Bears are smart.

The point of the bear canister is not to protect your food from the bear. No. Nobody cares if you lose your food and ruin your trip.

The point is to protect the bear from your food. A fed bear is a dead bear. Rangers don't like shooting bears. If a bear gets your food, they should make you personally shoot the bear.

The canisters work.
Sewellymon

climber
.....in a single wide......
Aug 19, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
I use an Ursack- but when in Nat Parks I am breaking the law and could be tooled.

http://www.ursack.com/

There is something called the "PCT Hang" which is a technique purported to be fairly bear- resistant.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 19, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
No hang is bear resistant in this day and age. The PCT thruhikers like to kid themselves, because they're too lazy to carry a can.
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:05pm PT
How about a beer canister?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2004-08-18-beer-bear_x.htm
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Aug 19, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
A lazy thru-hiker?

Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Aug 19, 2013 - 05:23pm PT
They think Ray Jardine is the greatest thing since canned beer.

So maybe they do need a beer canister.
dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Aug 19, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
Preventing bears from associating people and available food is the idea.
Recent occurrences of bears seeing people as 'food' is way up.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bear-attacks-raise-safety-concerns/story?id=19993374


"The Michigan Department of Natural Resources is actively searching for the black bear that attacked Abby by setting bear traps and has plans to kill the bear after it is caught."

http://www.kake.com/news/national/headlines/Bear-Attacks-On-The-Rise-Raising-Safety-Concerns-220111141.html

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