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Messages 1 - 20 of total 134 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
The environmental factors that determine the fuel moisture of a fuel particle are:

Air Temperature

Moisture content of the air

Solar radiation (as modified by cloud cover)

Rainfall (amount and duration)

None of which have anything to do with climate change.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
I said it had a microscopic affect wes, but ive also well proven the fires and their behaviors/occurrences are the same as they were in 1910. And ive said why that is as well. Like it or not its all fact. To see the changes some attempt to extrapolate today would require the warming to actually start up again and go for a hundred years.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
"immanent" you say?

Spell check is a wonderful tool.

"ive also well proven.."

No, you haven't. I saw where you tried. You failed to prove any such thing.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:37pm PT
Thank you for pointing out the spelling error.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Once again your perception of reality is askew and your uninformed, arrogant insistence that you know what you are talking about turns an otherwise interesting topic into absolute rubbish. Enjoy!

Forests should absolutely be "treated." But that doesn't mean the effects of climate should be ignored. Personally, I'd like to see more Rx burns and mechanical treatments with low pressure equipment. I know from experience this equipment has very low soil compaction. Less ground pressure than a human foot print. Seems to be the way to go.

http://www.timberlinemag.com/articledatabase/view.asp?articleID=110
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
ohhhw gawrsh ,, what ever will i do with out tripe such as you post wes.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
Ron... Good post.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
you'd probably continue to stew in your own ignorance.

v you are welcome. sorry a little slow this am... didn't sleep until 7am, got up a 10am.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:54pm PT
Thanks for adding something wes. Yes those mechanical loggers have good use in some areas. But ive worked on sales where skidding was designated as a one skid per track. This tilled the soils and created the largest natural nursery of trees i had ever seen. Zero rehab, zero planting and a million regenerated trees in one winter. Thats the GOOD thing about modern techniques, there is usually one or more or a combination to work in any give locale.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
a million regenerated trees in one winter.

I thought the idea was to reduce fuel loads and mimic a more natural balance. A million regenerated trees in a winter is not natural, nor does it reduce fuel loads.
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
Just out of curiosity, who's 8 year old son of a timber industry executive wrote this?

Did they get an F?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
It WAS in the unit i speak of wes. It was a long stagnant seed/shelterwood and overstory removal sale in two units. It also had a long term thinning regime plan.


and khanom,, anything besides an insult you know,, validation as it were?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
khanom, I have no idea who wrote that. It was just the first article that popped up when I searched for Rottne CTL Holland. But I have worked with Jeff Holland and he is a good guy, doing good work that needs to be done.


Ron, please explain the natural process associated with fires that tills the soils and generates "a million trees" over winter.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
Many fires are located in vegetation with no commercial value and /or near populations with no tolerance for controlled burns. Thinning is too laborious to do on any large scale. I've thought a lot about this and conclude that really nothing will be done aside from some improvement in isolated pockets here and there.

In timber old-growth stands are the most fire resistant-- Logging circa 60s-80s pretty much took care of those however. Logging slash is the worst / heaviest fuel for fires.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Wes,, i never said anything about "natural", i simply gave an example of reforestation techniques being done by the actual cutting activities as a viable option for rehab and the like. Dont try and twist stuff..And yes that area now resembles a natural and healthy stocked stand of JP/PP. There was nothing natural about those stands i mentioned.



OTEASTD, many once told a Forester i worked under that a Helicopter salvage sale would not work and would be a loss to the district budget. It not only worked but gave $$$$$$$ to said district. Things can be done , if allowed.

There has been pre commercial helicopter sales recently on the e side. And thats PRE commercial thins.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Ron maybe talking about logging (he is old). But I'm talking about thinning along the WUI.

Credit: Dr. Christ
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_MEDIA/fsm9_045642.jpg

ontheedge, you currently work in fire/fuels don't you? I thought fire/fuels people loved thinning the areas around the WUI?
khanom

Trad climber
Greeley Hill
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Wes, I was referring to the OP
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
as Locker wud say,, ONE ADAM SIDEWALL ALERt!!!!!!!!!!!


and khanom,, still waiting to hear your experience and such.?



Heres some of mine:


Fuelwood Administrator/LEO

Timber Crew Foreman/Forestry Tech

Certified cruiser/grader/felling boss

Specialties : reforestation, small and large scale sales including EA,s, all types of thinning, burning, cone and seed collection, fulewood management, insect and disease, stand exams, land line id, LEO, fire positions from hot shots/engines/ helitack/ faller/ feeling boss/crewboss/ fireboss/ tractor boss/ rehab boss/ Base camp manager etc etc.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
The properly thinned areas look exactly like a paper company long term lease.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
TGT, that is because you are a idiot and have no idea what you are talking about... specifically size-class distributions, soil cover, and soil compaction.
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