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Messages 1 - 20 of total 79 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
The environmental factors that determine the fuel moisture of a fuel particle are:

Air Temperature

Moisture content of the air

Solar radiation (as modified by cloud cover)

Rainfall (amount and duration)

None of which have anything to do with climate change.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
"immanent" you say?

Spell check is a wonderful tool.

"ive also well proven.."

No, you haven't. I saw where you tried. You failed to prove any such thing.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Once again your perception of reality is askew and your uninformed, arrogant insistence that you know what you are talking about turns an otherwise interesting topic into absolute rubbish. Enjoy!

Forests should absolutely be "treated." But that doesn't mean the effects of climate should be ignored. Personally, I'd like to see more Rx burns and mechanical treatments with low pressure equipment. I know from experience this equipment has very low soil compaction. Less ground pressure than a human foot print. Seems to be the way to go.

http://www.timberlinemag.com/articledatabase/view.asp?articleID=110
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
Ron... Good post.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:53pm PT
you'd probably continue to stew in your own ignorance.

v you are welcome. sorry a little slow this am... didn't sleep until 7am, got up a 10am.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 04:56pm PT
a million regenerated trees in one winter.

I thought the idea was to reduce fuel loads and mimic a more natural balance. A million regenerated trees in a winter is not natural, nor does it reduce fuel loads.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:03pm PT
khanom, I have no idea who wrote that. It was just the first article that popped up when I searched for Rottne CTL Holland. But I have worked with Jeff Holland and he is a good guy, doing good work that needs to be done.


Ron, please explain the natural process associated with fires that tills the soils and generates "a million trees" over winter.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
Many fires are located in vegetation with no commercial value and /or near populations with no tolerance for controlled burns. Thinning is too laborious to do on any large scale. I've thought a lot about this and conclude that really nothing will be done aside from some improvement in isolated pockets here and there.

In timber old-growth stands are the most fire resistant-- Logging circa 60s-80s pretty much took care of those however. Logging slash is the worst / heaviest fuel for fires.

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
Ron maybe talking about logging (he is old). But I'm talking about thinning along the WUI.

Credit: Dr. Christ
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_MEDIA/fsm9_045642.jpg

ontheedge, you currently work in fire/fuels don't you? I thought fire/fuels people loved thinning the areas around the WUI?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
The properly thinned areas look exactly like a paper company long term lease.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:19pm PT
TGT, that is because you are a idiot and have no idea what you are talking about... specifically size-class distributions, soil cover, and soil compaction.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
Most pulp from paper comes from south eastern forests that grow like weeds. Pretty sure they are straight up feller-buncher operations in rotating crops.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:27pm PT
Hi I'm Chief Tidwell. Our plan to prevent catastrophic wildfires is to log the forests and sell all the big trees for the labor necessary to bulldoze the understory into giant slash piles.



Its SUCH A DEAL!!!11111

DMT
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
Dingus, how do you propose we get rid of the built up forest fuels that used to naturally burn every few decades?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
^ improper size-class distribution and undoubtedly excessive soil compaction. I'm sure you guys did the best you could, but they can do better nowadays. Looks like many of the ~50 year old scars you can find all over the NF in the area... and nothing like areas than burned naturally.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:37pm PT
Dr Christ I don't have a magic plan, sorry.

But taking out the biggest and best trees in payment for a clean up operation should not be the first arrow taken from the quiver. I can see it's use at the wildland/urban interface. But I am unsympathetic to the 'log it before we lost it' impulse.

These unprecedented fuel loads as a result of a century of fire suppression?

I don't believe a lot of the self-serving hype I hear. Follow the money, FS solutions always seem to include a 'sale.'

When all you have is a hammer, every tree gets nailed? When all you have is a sales contact, every tree is a log.

DMT
Timid TopRope

Social climber
'used to be Paradise, CA
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
Some of the most densely forested land here in Butte County is on private land owned by summer home owners and rural lifestyle types (equity refugees from cities/suburbs plus a smattering of third generation hillbillies). What they all share in common is their love of densely overgrown forests that they value as privacy screens.

Most of the private timber lands are either borderline clear-cuts with a few seed trees or NFS lands that get quite a bit of tree harvest and fuel reduction/thinning.

My observations lead me to believe the biggest threat to fire fighters and fire fighting are on the lands with private residences. Maybe and I mean maybe, five percent of rural home owners thin the trees on their land. Should they be forced to?
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
And build that nice comfortable home of yours in suburbia USA.

I think you mean "and ship raw logs (and jobs) harvested on public lands to Asia for substantial private profit"
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:43pm PT
And as for my "motives" ive sweated, bled, and damm near died FOR and in the Forests we enjoy. I think on them often and its from the heart. No more motive than that, have I..

Cool. I want you to remember your words next time you decide to paint Ed H or Chiloe with the same 'self-serving' brush.

Follow the money....

Well???

Somehow you're different? Your government agency was different? Your world was a different world? Your forest service was immune to corruption but the EPA is not?

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 6, 2013 - 05:46pm PT
Chief I don't have billions to house. California doesn't have billions to house. The United States doesn't have billions to house. North America doesn't have 'billions to house.'

Let Canada house the world, they seem intent on selling their national resources to over seas bidders.

DMT
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