Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

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tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
Maybe Verizon has more info about this, but we can't tell it from the log we have.
LAHiker, it fully appears that this data (on phone being turned on and off) is purged by Verizon, as they don't store it, unless its few days from the date in question, unfortunately. So, no luck on this line of search.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Tioga,

Thanks. Yes, I'd feared that the phone's on/off info would no longer be available.

I have a question regarding the library records. Chief Watson says that Detective Hornbeck checked with the library and found the following:

During July, there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com. Other sites accessed include mountain project.com, climbing arc.com, and super topo.com. Unfortunately, the Library cannot determine who accessed the sites. They don't check the ID of computer users and have no way of knowing who is online at any given time.

What do you think is meant by "wireless client"? Would this mean a library patron using a wireless device such as an iPhone, or do you think it would include access to the internet using the PCs in the library as well as WiFi? Or is it not clear what was meant?

The reason I ask is that as far as I know, Matt's phone didn't have internet access and he was in the library to use the PCs...
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
LAhiker- I read that to mean the Library's network of workstation clients are connected wirelessly.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
Thanks, MGuzzy! I just called the library to confirm (and also to find out whether the library has WiFi, for my own info if I go to Mammoth Lakes).

The patient, overworked woman said that the library does have WiFi and confirmed that the PCs are connected by some kind of non-commercially available wireless network, though she implied that wasn't her area.

Because I'd explained why I was calling, she also volunteered that someone had called to try to see if Matt might have printed anything out, but that thousands of people print things out there, so that info would not be easy to find.

She wished us luck.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
@mguzzy- By "his timeline", I meant the amount of time he had consciously and subconsciously planned for his activity on the 17th. Matt seemed like the type to plan and coordinate around all the variables (daylight, transportation, weather, etc), just like a flight plan when I go flying. Combined with his car not being ready the evening of the 17th means he probably wasn't in a hurry or rush. It also sounds from other people's comments that if his progress was falling short of his plan or nightfall, he'd turn around before rushing ahead to his goal (nicknamed "get-there-itis" in aviation...cause of many accidents). But I'm second guessing someone I don't know, and could be way off-base.

BTW, is your screen name short for Motoguzzi? Cool if it is!
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
@kenish- Go it.
BTW-My screen name is not specifically related to the bike, but I was living in Europe as a kid when I got the nickname.. so I'm sure there was an element of that in there as well. on a similar note, is your Screen name related to the pastry?
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:35pm PT
Also, the sites that sell anything, like gear, books and accept credit card numbers--like, say, mountainproject--are more likely to be the ones to store any kind of info on which ip accessed which page, for a length of time (in case there's credit car fraud or security breaches). If they do store logs for access of pages, say "(location name) climbing info" page was accessed on the 16th, from Mammoth library ip, from their log, this could be helpful in guessing the route chosen. A lot of times, these logs will contain internet provider intermediary ip addresses instead though (even that could be helpful)... just a small chance of additional info gained.

With tracking what was printed, I assume it's impossible since they don't require user accounts to access library computers.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
@mguzzy- Cool on your screen name. Mine is just a mashup of my first/last names. BTW, I edited my previous post after you responded.

Also, I'm working on posting to the best spot on MTBR.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
@Kenish & Tioga.. I'll throw another one in there.. how about Horseman groups. I thought I remember that there used to be guided horseback trips between Mammoth and Yosemite. Do they still do that? Anybody have contact with those horse back forums?

Yes according to Tiffany, Ron and Jeg, Matt was a very thorough and safe climber. He seemed to have the healthy perspective that the mountain will always be there and not push a summit if the conditions didn't warranted it.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 03:00pm PT
Yes, I think there're horse and mule/pack rides to Yosemite...but aren't they quite expensive (would be reflected on his weekly cash withdrawal or card statement)?
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
I'm not saying he took one... I'm sure Matt would rather carry the mule than be carried by one, just for the sport of it... But that others that do that may have seen something out of place to them.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
:) yeah, pretty sure he'd rather carry the mule
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
Posted to mtbr.com forums- General, Socal, and Norcal with a link to the FB page, and asked anyone with info to respond on FB. But I will check MTBR for replies, too.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Sep 11, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
@mguzzy & LA – “During July, there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com. Other sites accessed include mountain project.com, climbing arc.com, and super topo.com”.

-so we know Matt accessed summitpost in july from the library, therefore we can confidently say this 1 person was Matt. Correct?

“Unfortunately, the Library cannot determine who accessed the sites. They don't check the ID of computer users and have no way of knowing who is online at any given time.”
This does not matter – because we know that 1 person was Matt.

Therefore, if we cross check that IP address from the library with climbing arc.com, ST, and mountain project we will know what he looked at and may have responded to. Split and me should be able to do this. ~ron
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
^^^ @tdg-

That is probably not a good assumption. The library computers seem to have a hardwired connection; if true, wireless accesses are through personal devices (iPad, smartphone, laptop, etc). Matt didn't own a laptop, and his phone was not a smartphone, correct?

Mammoth Lakes is a hiking, fishing, climbing, running, and cycling destination. Access to outdoor/wilderness websites by the general public is much more likely than at a typical library. Many visitors don't have WiFi access where they are staying, so it's likely they would go to the library for access...Matt being one example.

The accesses to the websites very well could have been Matt...but far from certain.

The idea to ask the website owners to look through their access records is good. There are several complications...most websites have a service "host" their sites. The websites should be contacted first, but may not have easy access to the logs. (Contact them through "about us" or "Contact us"...you can also do a "whois" inquiry to find out the registered owner of any URL). The other issue is the IP address of the library and computers in the library. Depending on how the library and ISP configure and secure their network, the ISP may change every time a new browsing session opens.

Definitely worth pursuing but pointing out some hurdles in the pursuit.
Supermama

Social climber
pa
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
Hi all,

Just got in from work and read posts to get caught up. Couple of things stood out...I agree with Kennish, I don't think he was in a hurry because the car place was not in a hurry to fix his car. He was always on the go like I am, so I would be bored and want to do something....

Tiffany and Ron... aside from climbing and running, did Matt have any other hobbies?

I did check some of the other forums earlier on, but no Matt Greene in any form in the search engine. Did he use a code name? Maybe if we each took a web site to research, it wouldn't be so overwhelming. I spent hours one day looking. One of the sites you couldn't view without a password.

The detective is looking into the emails, however the phone could be subpoenaed as well. That's how they caught my stalker a few years ago. Ron and Tiffany would have to do request that from the police.

Just a thought...if my phone is out of a reception area or off, I do not receive emails until I turn it on or am back in an area of reception. I have a data phone, though.

Let's hope the Morales come through with some information as well. I don't know that we will be privy to the info though.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
RE library access:

Kenish, are you positive that library computers have cable connections and not wifi? Note:

The patient, overworked woman said that the library does have WiFi and confirmed that the PCs are connected by some kind of non-commercially available wireless network

Therefore, if we cross check that IP address from the library with climbing arc.com, ST, and mountain project we will know what he looked at and may have responded to. Split and me should be able to do this. ~ron

Ron, on most of the sites it should be easy to tell what Matt responded to (if you can gain access to their logs). Because if he responded, he was logged in, and if he was logged in, then the database will have his user id associated with his responses.

Adding to what Kenish said: if Matt looked at pages but wasn't logged into the sites, in order to isolate which pages he looked at you'd need to confirm that he was the only user looking at the sites from the library at the time (since the library doesn't track the traffic of individual computers).

As Kenish said, the IP of a given user's browsing may change frequently, but I think it's unlikely -- especially if the computer stayed online.

Some possible ways to get further data [apologies for redundant information]:

 much website software tracks the last login time of a given user. It may also track the IP address from which the user logged in.
 the software may also track the pages viewed by a logged in user. Unlikely, but possible.
 If he was not logged in but was the only user at the library viewing the sites, then the site's access logs may give clues (as Ron suggested).
 Mountain Project profile?: http://www.mountainproject.com/u/matthew-greene//107615103?action=personalpage&
 Summitpost profile?: http://www.summitpost.org/users/mattgreene/40605.
 Possible post from Jul 16?: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=408661&type=vote_comments&discussion_id=473067#473067

From the Summitpost profile page:

A Few Words: NOTE FROM SUMMITPOST ADMIN: We have checked Matt's account to check PMs to see in any info might be found to aid in the search. Unfortunately no information of any kind was found. The correct last login date for Matt is July 16.
Ikat

Social climber
Carson City
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Thanks ex-stzzzo

I had been looking at that Summitpost profile, too.

His post on July 16 is sort of odd. It isn't really pertinent to the geographic area, and it was an old article from 2008. I get the impression of a guy in the library trying to burn off time, not having too much to do.

If I read his profile correctly, he is listing 93 places in the Summit Register list, but none of these appear to be associated with this summer's trip.

There has got to be away to search the Library PC files to see what was being searched for that afternoon. There won't be a hundred people searching. It would take some sort of access priviledge and time. Shoeleather time in the LE world. Unfortunately I'm not currently in the area and have other distant committments, but I'd be willing to search the computer a couple of hours if I could. I'm doing it here at work already.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
^^^ Stzzo- Sorry, you're correct. I misread the library employee's comments to LA Hiker. So, it may have been from an internal library computer or a personal device brought into the library. It's still uncertain whether it was Matt or someone else.

Usually public access computers log off automatically after just a few minutes of inactivity. That protects against a new user hitting the "back" button to snoop on previous user(s) activity. My local library has signs emphasizing the need to log out. I'd expect the IP addresses to change often..especially if the library uses software to block ads and cookies.

@ikat- I recall a few weeks ago that the library clears out browsing history every evening. That would be expected SOP for public access computers. The drives could be forensically searched because files aren't completely erased, but requires legal intervention and the library allowing removal of the hard drives. 7 weeks have gone by and the chance of latent data still being there diminishes with time. The "erased" data is free disk space available to overwrite new data, and eventually that will happen.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Usually public access computers log off automatically after just a few minutes of inactivity. That protects against a new user hitting the "back" button to snoop on previous user(s) activity. My local library has signs emphasizing the need to log out. I'd expect the IP addresses to change often..especially if the library uses software to block ads and cookies.

Sure, but logging off in the browser is not the same is resetting the internet connection & getting a new IP. Only investigation will confirm, but it's highly likely that library computers either:

 Route through a router that uses one external IP for all computers on their network.
 A stay "online" and keep IP addresses for long periods, in spite of user activity.

And I don't mean to hijack the thread to talk about typical LAN configurations, only to say that I think it's more likely than not that a library computer would maintain an IP for a while.

Couple of odd things about summitpost...

 The MattGreene profile page says "Last Active: Sep 11, 2013".
 There's a user "MG13" who joined on Jul 16 and has posted only one post: http://www.summitpost.org/users/mg13/107266, http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/post929627.html#p929627
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