Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

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Messages 1841 - 1860 of total 2360 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:26pm PT
Tiffany/Ron Is there any chance you can ask the person that sent the 2:53a Text for even a rough estimate of the time he sent it? it would help to bracket when Matt's Cell phone was turned off.

For example the last message Matt received on the 16th was at 8:34p PT, that would be 11:34p ET. So we know his cell phone was on at that time. If Matt's friend sent the text before midnight then we would know the Cell phone was off by 9pm PT and in line with his normal pattern.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
Thanks Chief Watson.. In the previous many many pages, that is the only tangible clue possibility..
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Since Matt didn't expect his car to be ready until the 18th, his "timeline" would be dusk on the 17th since the gear inventory doesn't suggest an overnight. On the 17th, sunrise was 0548, sunset was 816pm, and twilight ended at 847p. There was a quarter moon so a flashlight would be required after that. Matt seems like the type who took all that into account in his plans, along with transportation back to the campground.

Something that didn't occur to me is posting to mountain biking forums. Mammoth is crawling with MTB riders during the summer (me included). MTBR.com has a national audience, and the other is So Cal Trailriders. Terrain and laws exclude MTB from the wilderness areas, but a rider may have met Matt in town, on a shuttle bus, or at the campground. I will post a link to the "find Matt" Facebook page on both. There's similar forums for the Bay Area but I don't know the MTB "scene" there...does someone subscribe to one up there or have a friend who can post?

I don't fish, but a post on the appropriate fishing forum(s) might be good...there's quite a bit more presence in the back country compared to mountain bikers.

Hoping that retrieval of Matt's emails provide clues that increase or decrease the probability of different search areas or scenarios.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Thanks, Chief Watson, for the update. Looks like I was wrong -- sounds like the Morales family has not been previously interviewed. So I hope they provide lots of useful information!

Thanks for the library information. I did have one question (maybe I or someone else here can contact Detective Hornbeck directly). You say that “there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com.” Do you mean that the library has WiFi and there was only one person who accessed that site using a wireless device such as an iPhone? As far as I know, Matt’s phone did not have internet capability, (please correct me if I'm wrong) so he would have accessed the internet using the library's PCs, not through WiFi. Or do you mean that the PCs in the library connect to the internet through the library’s WiFi and that there was only one person who contacted that site, whether on a PC or through WiFi?

Edit: Apparently though the library also has WiFi, the library's workstations are connected through a wireless network, so that might have been all that was meant.

Also, is it possible to tell what dates people accessed those sites using the PCs at the library? (I had thought that info was lost, but if it's possible to tell which sites were accessed, maybe not...) We know Matt was in the library on the 16th. I think that climbing sites that were accessed in the last days before Matt disappeared, and especially on the 16th, would be of special interest. We know Matt posted something on Summitpost on the 16th, but we don’t know what other sites he looked at, which he might have used to plan his activities on the 17th. Knowing that might help narrow things down.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
The "last person who texted Matt" still, to this day, didn't check his cell phone account/bill for the exact time he had sent it at? This is way off.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
The last person to text Matt either no longer has that phone and/or is no longer using that cell phone provider.. that is what I recall. But yes it makes me scratch my head as well. I used to be with Verizon and once I ported my number away from them I no longer had access into my acct on their website.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:14pm PT
On the 17th, sunrise was 0548, sunset was 816pm, and twilight ended at 847p.
I want to add that back in mid-July it was getting light pretty early before official sunrise time in the Sierra, at 5 and I think even before that one didn't need to use a flashlight, there was so much light it wasn't possible to sleep even.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
Please see this Verizon document that gives sample tables provided in response to phone record search warrant/to LE:
http://cryptome.org/isp-spy/verizon-spy.pdf

Text message data table contains "time sent" field, so this is possible to determine for even old text messages on the receiver side.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:22pm PT
@Kenish those would be good groups to follow up with... I agree.

I don't know what you mean by "his 'timeline'"? Matt's last confirm-able known interaction with anything was the text message that he sent at 8:09pm on the 16th of July. There was no communication from anything that was associated with him after 2:53a on the 17th of July.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
Tioga-Text message data table contains "time sent" field, so this is possible to determine for even old text messages on the receiver side
That is correct, but we are operating with information that has not been acquired through a subpoena. And we may never be privy to that information. It would sure be nice to know though. It would be another piece of the puzzle.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
I think Verizon is open about it's policy about not requiring subpoena if LE contacts them and they believe there's a valid reason to examine records--had seen this info posted somewhere on VZ site (not in regular "survellance" situation, but missing person, etc situation). These records would be standard forms used by VZ, generated by software.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
MGuzzy, I agree that it’s important to know that Matt (or someone) turned his phone on at 2:53am on the 17th, and it would be great to know exactly when the text was sent so we know when Matt's phone was off or unreachable.

Looking at Matt's movements on the 16th: According to the phone records, Matt was in town during mid-afternoon (spoke for 24 minutes with his parents, apparently saying the car would be ready on the 18th but that the garage might string it out later).

Then his last communication for which we have a location was on the afternoon of the 16th, when he called the repair shop at 4:29pm (1 minute) and 4:35pm (2 minutes), from the direction of Mammoth Mountain (perhaps from near the main lodge). I wonder what they told him in those brief calls, and whether the person who answered the call could even answer his question. (Maybe to confirm it would be ready on the 18th, or to see if it might actually be done sooner?)

After those calls on the 16th, Matt sent and received texts intermittently between 4:40pm and 8:34pm, apparently with friends in Pennsylvania, and according to Tiffany, everything seemed fine. I had assumed that the final couple of texts sent/received were from his tent, but you’re right that he could have been elsewhere. (Doesn’t seem the type to be into night life, however.)

Finally, while it looks like Matt turned his phone off within a certain range of times each night, our evidence on when he typically turned it on is less clear. As I’ve said before, the only reason we know his phone was on at 2:53am that morning is because it received a text from the night before, which registered at that time. On many other days, the only evidence we have of the phone being on is from late afternoon, yet Matt may well have turned on the phone earlier in the day, or even in the wee hours of the morning. Unless he made or received a call or text, we can’t tell whether his phone was on or off. (Maybe Verizon has more info about this, but we can't tell it from the log we have.)
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:33pm PT
If I recall they will comply completely with LE.. so we'll need to be patient while LE does their job. There was a some discussion of the procedures and avenues LE has upthread. The family would need to file a subpoena if they wanted to proceed independently of LE.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
If I recall they will comply completely with LE.. so we'll need to be patient while LE does their job. There was a some discussion of the procedures and avenues LE has upthread. The family would need to file a subpoena if they wanted to proceed independently of LE.
This info (message sent time) is definitely not hopelessly lost, even if sender had lost their account. And well, yes, kind of a lot of coincidence--lost account and no info on text message content...
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
LAHiker.. that is exactly it. If we get a time that text was sent, then we know it was waiting to be received by a phone that was not on (connected to the cell network) during that time frame.

Tioga- We are in agreement, Yes that information is there somewhere and with access to Verizon Logs it would be obvious. So for now all we can do is ask the person involved about their recollection.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
I wonder if these climbing sites accessed could be willing to retrieve their server logs (the logs might be no longer available, depends on their setup) as to access from Mammoth library. If Mammoth library uses dynamic ip that changes after router is rebooted, their ISP will likely still have record of what ip was used (by the library) on July 16th. I mean if they were willing to help out, without search warrant.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
LE probably already has the data on message sent time, as it should be a part of standard form...I assume they probably deemed it to be not really relevant though.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
Maybe Verizon has more info about this, but we can't tell it from the log we have.
LAHiker, it fully appears that this data (on phone being turned on and off) is purged by Verizon, as they don't store it, unless its few days from the date in question, unfortunately. So, no luck on this line of search.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 01:58pm PT
Tioga,

Thanks. Yes, I'd feared that the phone's on/off info would no longer be available.

I have a question regarding the library records. Chief Watson says that Detective Hornbeck checked with the library and found the following:

During July, there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com. Other sites accessed include mountain project.com, climbing arc.com, and super topo.com. Unfortunately, the Library cannot determine who accessed the sites. They don't check the ID of computer users and have no way of knowing who is online at any given time.

What do you think is meant by "wireless client"? Would this mean a library patron using a wireless device such as an iPhone, or do you think it would include access to the internet using the PCs in the library as well as WiFi? Or is it not clear what was meant?

The reason I ask is that as far as I know, Matt's phone didn't have internet access and he was in the library to use the PCs...
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
LAhiker- I read that to mean the Library's network of workstation clients are connected wirelessly.
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