Missing friend in Mammoth Lakes area

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Messages 1801 - 1820 of total 2324 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
LAhiker- I read that to mean the Library's network of workstation clients are connected wirelessly.
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:14pm PT
Thanks, MGuzzy! I just called the library to confirm (and also to find out whether the library has WiFi, for my own info if I go to Mammoth Lakes).

The patient, overworked woman said that the library does have WiFi and confirmed that the PCs are connected by some kind of non-commercially available wireless network, though she implied that wasn't her area.

Because I'd explained why I was calling, she also volunteered that someone had called to try to see if Matt might have printed anything out, but that thousands of people print things out there, so that info would not be easy to find.

She wished us luck.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
@mguzzy- By "his timeline", I meant the amount of time he had consciously and subconsciously planned for his activity on the 17th. Matt seemed like the type to plan and coordinate around all the variables (daylight, transportation, weather, etc), just like a flight plan when I go flying. Combined with his car not being ready the evening of the 17th means he probably wasn't in a hurry or rush. It also sounds from other people's comments that if his progress was falling short of his plan or nightfall, he'd turn around before rushing ahead to his goal (nicknamed "get-there-itis" in aviation...cause of many accidents). But I'm second guessing someone I don't know, and could be way off-base.

BTW, is your screen name short for Motoguzzi? Cool if it is!
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
@kenish- Go it.
BTW-My screen name is not specifically related to the bike, but I was living in Europe as a kid when I got the nickname.. so I'm sure there was an element of that in there as well. on a similar note, is your Screen name related to the pastry?
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:42pm PT
@mguzzy- Cool on your screen name. Mine is just a mashup of my first/last names. BTW, I edited my previous post after you responded.

Also, I'm working on posting to the best spot on MTBR.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 02:55pm PT
@Kenish & Tioga.. I'll throw another one in there.. how about Horseman groups. I thought I remember that there used to be guided horseback trips between Mammoth and Yosemite. Do they still do that? Anybody have contact with those horse back forums?

Yes according to Tiffany, Ron and Jeg, Matt was a very thorough and safe climber. He seemed to have the healthy perspective that the mountain will always be there and not push a summit if the conditions didn't warranted it.
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
I'm not saying he took one... I'm sure Matt would rather carry the mule than be carried by one, just for the sport of it... But that others that do that may have seen something out of place to them.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 04:27pm PT
Posted to mtbr.com forums- General, Socal, and Norcal with a link to the FB page, and asked anyone with info to respond on FB. But I will check MTBR for replies, too.
tdg119

Social climber
Northampton, PA
Sep 11, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
@mguzzy & LA – “During July, there was only one wireless client who accessed summitpost.com. Other sites accessed include mountain project.com, climbing arc.com, and super topo.com”.

-so we know Matt accessed summitpost in july from the library, therefore we can confidently say this 1 person was Matt. Correct?

“Unfortunately, the Library cannot determine who accessed the sites. They don't check the ID of computer users and have no way of knowing who is online at any given time.”
This does not matter – because we know that 1 person was Matt.

Therefore, if we cross check that IP address from the library with climbing arc.com, ST, and mountain project we will know what he looked at and may have responded to. Split and me should be able to do this. ~ron
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
^^^ @tdg-

That is probably not a good assumption. The library computers seem to have a hardwired connection; if true, wireless accesses are through personal devices (iPad, smartphone, laptop, etc). Matt didn't own a laptop, and his phone was not a smartphone, correct?

Mammoth Lakes is a hiking, fishing, climbing, running, and cycling destination. Access to outdoor/wilderness websites by the general public is much more likely than at a typical library. Many visitors don't have WiFi access where they are staying, so it's likely they would go to the library for access...Matt being one example.

The accesses to the websites very well could have been Matt...but far from certain.

The idea to ask the website owners to look through their access records is good. There are several complications...most websites have a service "host" their sites. The websites should be contacted first, but may not have easy access to the logs. (Contact them through "about us" or "Contact us"...you can also do a "whois" inquiry to find out the registered owner of any URL). The other issue is the IP address of the library and computers in the library. Depending on how the library and ISP configure and secure their network, the ISP may change every time a new browsing session opens.

Definitely worth pursuing but pointing out some hurdles in the pursuit.
Supermama

Social climber
pa
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:06pm PT
Hi all,

Just got in from work and read posts to get caught up. Couple of things stood out...I agree with Kennish, I don't think he was in a hurry because the car place was not in a hurry to fix his car. He was always on the go like I am, so I would be bored and want to do something....

Tiffany and Ron... aside from climbing and running, did Matt have any other hobbies?

I did check some of the other forums earlier on, but no Matt Greene in any form in the search engine. Did he use a code name? Maybe if we each took a web site to research, it wouldn't be so overwhelming. I spent hours one day looking. One of the sites you couldn't view without a password.

The detective is looking into the emails, however the phone could be subpoenaed as well. That's how they caught my stalker a few years ago. Ron and Tiffany would have to do request that from the police.

Just a thought...if my phone is out of a reception area or off, I do not receive emails until I turn it on or am back in an area of reception. I have a data phone, though.

Let's hope the Morales come through with some information as well. I don't know that we will be privy to the info though.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
RE library access:

Kenish, are you positive that library computers have cable connections and not wifi? Note:

The patient, overworked woman said that the library does have WiFi and confirmed that the PCs are connected by some kind of non-commercially available wireless network

Therefore, if we cross check that IP address from the library with climbing arc.com, ST, and mountain project we will know what he looked at and may have responded to. Split and me should be able to do this. ~ron

Ron, on most of the sites it should be easy to tell what Matt responded to (if you can gain access to their logs). Because if he responded, he was logged in, and if he was logged in, then the database will have his user id associated with his responses.

Adding to what Kenish said: if Matt looked at pages but wasn't logged into the sites, in order to isolate which pages he looked at you'd need to confirm that he was the only user looking at the sites from the library at the time (since the library doesn't track the traffic of individual computers).

As Kenish said, the IP of a given user's browsing may change frequently, but I think it's unlikely -- especially if the computer stayed online.

Some possible ways to get further data [apologies for redundant information]:

 much website software tracks the last login time of a given user. It may also track the IP address from which the user logged in.
 the software may also track the pages viewed by a logged in user. Unlikely, but possible.
 If he was not logged in but was the only user at the library viewing the sites, then the site's access logs may give clues (as Ron suggested).
 Mountain Project profile?: http://www.mountainproject.com/u/matthew-greene//107615103?action=personalpage&
 Summitpost profile?: http://www.summitpost.org/users/mattgreene/40605.
 Possible post from Jul 16?: http://www.summitpost.org/view_object.php?object_id=408661&type=vote_comments&discussion_id=473067#473067

From the Summitpost profile page:

A Few Words: NOTE FROM SUMMITPOST ADMIN: We have checked Matt's account to check PMs to see in any info might be found to aid in the search. Unfortunately no information of any kind was found. The correct last login date for Matt is July 16.
Ikat

Social climber
Carson City
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
Thanks ex-stzzzo

I had been looking at that Summitpost profile, too.

His post on July 16 is sort of odd. It isn't really pertinent to the geographic area, and it was an old article from 2008. I get the impression of a guy in the library trying to burn off time, not having too much to do.

If I read his profile correctly, he is listing 93 places in the Summit Register list, but none of these appear to be associated with this summer's trip.

There has got to be away to search the Library PC files to see what was being searched for that afternoon. There won't be a hundred people searching. It would take some sort of access priviledge and time. Shoeleather time in the LE world. Unfortunately I'm not currently in the area and have other distant committments, but I'd be willing to search the computer a couple of hours if I could. I'm doing it here at work already.
kenish

Gym climber
Orange County, CA
Sep 11, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
^^^ Stzzo- Sorry, you're correct. I misread the library employee's comments to LA Hiker. So, it may have been from an internal library computer or a personal device brought into the library. It's still uncertain whether it was Matt or someone else.

Usually public access computers log off automatically after just a few minutes of inactivity. That protects against a new user hitting the "back" button to snoop on previous user(s) activity. My local library has signs emphasizing the need to log out. I'd expect the IP addresses to change often..especially if the library uses software to block ads and cookies.

@ikat- I recall a few weeks ago that the library clears out browsing history every evening. That would be expected SOP for public access computers. The drives could be forensically searched because files aren't completely erased, but requires legal intervention and the library allowing removal of the hard drives. 7 weeks have gone by and the chance of latent data still being there diminishes with time. The "erased" data is free disk space available to overwrite new data, and eventually that will happen.
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:20pm PT
Usually public access computers log off automatically after just a few minutes of inactivity. That protects against a new user hitting the "back" button to snoop on previous user(s) activity. My local library has signs emphasizing the need to log out. I'd expect the IP addresses to change often..especially if the library uses software to block ads and cookies.

Sure, but logging off in the browser is not the same is resetting the internet connection & getting a new IP. Only investigation will confirm, but it's highly likely that library computers either:

 Route through a router that uses one external IP for all computers on their network.
 A stay "online" and keep IP addresses for long periods, in spite of user activity.

And I don't mean to hijack the thread to talk about typical LAN configurations, only to say that I think it's more likely than not that a library computer would maintain an IP for a while.

Couple of odd things about summitpost...

 The MattGreene profile page says "Last Active: Sep 11, 2013".
 There's a user "MG13" who joined on Jul 16 and has posted only one post: http://www.summitpost.org/users/mg13/107266, http://www.summitpost.org/phpBB3/post929627.html#p929627
LAhiker

Social climber
Los Angeles
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts and expertise. If there's any way we can find out what Matt accessed on the 16th, that would be great. I gather from what people are saying that that may be difficult, so I hope that there's progress in getting access to Matt's email and in interviewing the Morales family.

One caution re my conversation with the library employee. Her response did seem to confirm MGuzzy's interpretation that the library's computers were connected by a wireless network and thus that the "wireless carrier" referred to by Detective Hornbeck could have involved Matt's activity on a PC and not wasn't just someone else coming in there with a laptop or smartphone.

But because I know very little about this area, I didn't know how to confirm it by asking for details or how to probe further about it. The employee was kind of busy and it might not have been her area either. So if further info is needed maybe someone who is more knowlegeable can talk with library people (and especially whoever handles the computers and internet there) under more relaxed conditions. Maybe SplitPants has already done just that.

And maybe Detective Hornbeck can clarify what he thought was meant. Because he's presumably very busy, I wanted to get see if the library could answer my fairly basic question.

I do have a question about this. How did the library tell that someone had accessed those sites? Presumably not by looking at "history" on their PCs, because apparently that's deleted at the end of each day.

Would they looked at or searched a log of all internet connections made by the library? If so, and assuming that the log includes connections made on the PCs and not just by Wifi, could they search it by date and time? If so, maybe they could see if a bunch of mountaineering sites were accessed on July 16th, at around the time Matt was there. Also, if they know that the sites were accessed, would the library's log also have info about which pages were accessed??
mattyj

Mountain climber
Truckee
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
I hate to sound harsh but in addition to the hypotheticals and speculation mentioned by Cragman, there is a lot of re-hashing of existing information going on in this thread. Which is fine if there's something new to add/discuss, but blindly having the same conversations over and over only succeeds in lowering the signal to noise ratio.

On SummitPost and IPs, specifically:

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2211399#msg2211399

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2195321&msg=2211475#msg2211475

Forensically searching the library computers for deleted browsing information was discussed to death upthread. All arguments about how technically possible it may be or might have been a month ago aside, that ship has sailed.
SplitPants

Social climber
LA
Sep 11, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
All,
Thanks for all of the info and ideas. We are working on obtaining information from the library network admin. We will know more regarding the follow up/results late Friday. So perhaps we can change the topic to something else like areas to search or something along those lines?

Thanks and keep your fingers crossed:)
MGuzzy

Trad climber
Orangevale
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:41pm PT
LAHiker- I do have a question about this. How did the library tell that someone had accessed those sites? Presumably not by looking at "history" on their PCs, because apparently that's deleted at the end of each day.


I don't know what kind of networking equipment they have at the Library but even simple routers will maintain a log of all the internet traffic that goes through them. And they could have a very simple yet secure private wireless network where only the workstations in the Library are allowed access (probably by only allowing the MAC addresses of the workstations). Newer Dual band routers can share guest access to the internet and still allow an internal private WiFi network. But given this is a municipality it will have more advanced equipment.
Just guessin'
CyDuke

climber
Sep 11, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
Don't know if this will be of any benefit, but here is a link to quite a few high res images of the Ritter Range area. Some pics are very close up, other are area scenic shots. There are also a handful of videos. (There are 5 pages of images, the videos are on page 5). These pics were taken a week or two after Matt was last seen, but I am not sure of exact date. Image names say July, but the blog post says August. It was after the fire had started because there are some pictures of the distant smoke.

Anyway, I looked at pictures for any kind of clue, but didn't see anything. But, this may show what the conditions were like at the time. I don't know how much of a difference a week or two could make, maybe not much, maybe a lot. And it also might eliminate some areas that have to be searched on foot??? Not sure, I know there is also a lot in the area that is not captured digitally.

The pics are captivating. Really something. I did not try to make contact with owner of these pictures to see he came across anything unusual (hat, crampons, backpack, etc).

http://hikenhi.smugmug.com/Davids-Hiking-and/Mount-Ritter-July-2013
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