retro bolting- colorado

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goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:25pm PT
Climbed 5.12 last month Bob, and if I fold my dick in half its only 6 inches.

While we are at it, how many 14er's have you skied?
How many miles can you swim in open water?
I'm up to four.

Seriously I gotta get back to work, toodles old man.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
Eric wrote: While we are at it, how many 14er's have you skied?
How many miles can you swim in open water?
I'm up to four.

We are not talking about those activities here...are we?

Nice try macho man.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze

Jul 24, 2013 - 11:59am PT
Dude, you're foaming at the mouth and not even quoting me but Blahblah.

Seriously settle down before your heart assplodes.
The majority of the Sport Park was top ropes set up between the '70's and early '90's. I climbed them with Mark Kelly, Oxana Medved, and Anita Allen.

Tell us your version of the Sport Park?
Tell us your version of Tonnere Tower and what it was like before '92?

In addition Tarbuster and I climbed a bunch of stuff just here and there in that canyon that Roy spotted along with Stich over the years that wasn't worth reporting to you or MP because we could care less about reporting it to the masses, wild thought I know but we did it for fun, not spray or adulation.

I'm not here to judge but remember when we retrobolted those top ropes in the South Platte on rappel just because we wanted to climb right now. Remember that toprope I pointed out to you that became a fat bolt climb the next month.

Tell us your version of climbs lead in the South Platte?
Tell us your version of the Sport Park?
Tell us your version of Tonnere Tower and what it was like before '92?
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:28pm PT
Great post Jake.

goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
You're ignoring my questions Bolting Bob.

Edit, Ron I'm very gentle and caring in real life.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Go back to work Eric...do something productive.

Eric...what is with the name calling? I don't have to answer any of your questions...I called bullshit on your post...and it was.


What I have done in climbing in Colorado and many other places in pretty common knowledge. Never sneaky...I always put it out there.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
The "FA party owns the route" is a bygone artifact from a different age, particularly when it comes to public land.

Retrobolting is not exactly the same thing / topic.

The FA's permission is not necessary. Get that through your heads. The FA party DOES NOT OWN THE ROUTE. They never did.

Yall decided for yourselves to follow this or that ethic / rule. The only appeal was and is an appeal to your conscience. "The FA party owns the route" does not appeal to younger climbers conscience.

You fundamentalists best find a new appeal, the old one is failing / failed.

Got any other arguments to impose your wills on future climbers?

DMT
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
Edit, Ron I'm very gentle and caring in real life.

...in real life sometimes . A community of people that (for the most part) are not anonymous and share interests... that's kind of like real life.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
Also I would always ask permission to retro-bolt a route...too many of mine have been but I still seem to live through it. :-)

That's all I wanted to see. Thanks Bob.

Chris should have made the effort.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
Chris should have made the effort.
I believe you are still making assumptions, yes? Do you have any idea what efforts he did or didn't make, and have you seen the route in question?

My perceptions on this episode are colored by a ST thread about bolts being added to routes at Suicide. Unless you had seen the routes and the added bolts at issue (I did), you really had nothing to say other than general yap-flapping, at least as applied to those routes.
General comments about retro-bolting may or may not be interesting, but that's not the same thing as commentary on a specific route.
JLP

Social climber
The internet
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
"The FA party owns the route" does not appeal to younger climbers conscience.
It was a dirty POS relic nobody cared about until today. CW and MS are hardly "younger climbers".
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 24, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
I believe you are still making assumptions, yes?


I suppose. As are you?

Seems reasonably clear from Chris's MP post.

Reportedly freed by Thom Byrne in 1988, Archangel remained largely ignored until 2013. If Byrne freed it, his ascent was extremely bold.
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
Bob, you are the one as guidebook author ignoring my questions.
Show us where those bolted route are in the old guide and maybe you will gain some credence.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:25pm PT

I suppose. As are you?
I don't think it's reasonably clear at all what happened--I suppose that's an "assumption" on my part, but let me add a little more.
I have a copy of Rossiter's 1997 Upper Dream Canyon guide (and I've been at least an occasional UDC visitor since around then, not that that is super relevant).
Archangel is listed in that guide as requiring 13 QDs, which doesn't make any sense if there were only a couple bolts. Also, the guide shows an incomplete project to the right of Archangel; the bolts that Chris found could have been from that project.
Rossiter was apparently somewhat involved with Archangel; he added some bolts on an easy approach pitch with "Thom Byrne."
Perhaps Rossiter and/or Bryne intended to bolt Archangel, but never got around to doing so, but Byrne had aided or toproped it or something or other before then.
From Googling, Weidner is a 14 sport climber and 13 trad (Eldo) climber; if he's skeptical that the route was ever really freed, I may trust his skepticism, especially if the only reason to think it was freed was some cryptic info from an old Rossiter guide.
I've never heard of "Thom Byrne." I'm sure there were plenty of very good old-skool Boulder climbers whose names I don't know, but I think the whole affair is anything but "reasonably clear."
the kid

Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
wow. ok my post made it to 80.
now can we quit the name calling and ego bashing and who climbs how hard.
how about we just talk about this route and the effect it has on the overall aspect of the sport.

Does the FA party own the route- in some ways no, and in a lot of ways (wait for it, wait for it) damn right we do. We put in the work, paid for the gear or bolts, put our asses on the line and opened it up for everyone to ENJOY!
So, it comes down to a simple lack of respect when this happens without anyone asking the FA party if this would be cool.
A bunch of years ago i was doing a slide show in So Cal. some climbers came up to me and raved about Bikini Whale- how they loved the route and really wanted to lead it but were too scared and would only tope rope it. They asked really nicely if bolts could be added. I said yes because it was a top rope first and i lead it, on sight, ground up old school. I got the rush, the experience i wanted from the route and was happy to open it up to the masses.

This was not the case with Cookie Monster and we know that story well.

So stop the name calling and bashing. if you can't have this discussion with respect and decency then don't chime in.

Im not name calling or bashing Chris for what he did, just asking the questions, why and what good does it do to bring the route/sport down to your level when climbing used to be about stepping up to the level of the route you desire to climb.
kurt
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
but I think the whole affair is anything but "reasonably clear."


I didn't say the whole affair was reasonably clear, only that it was reasonably clear that Chris didn't do the homework.

Having your doubts is one thing, but bolting up something that is listed as someone else's FA without finding the facts is a different thing.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
I am willing to bet $100 that there will be no convincing evidence that the route bolted by Weidner was ever led free, prior to his bolting.
Edit--actually let me change that, no bet (don't feel like arguing with anyone about terms)--
If anyone presents convincing evidence that the route was led free, I will donate $100 to the 501(c)(3) charity or ST charity recipient of his/her choice.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
Kurt...you didn't ask Chris...you posted this "retro-bolting-Colorado under an assumption. You knew exactly what kind of reaction this would bring on.

Then you have most people wanting to hang Chris by the balls without even knowing the full story. Lame in my opinion.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
Eric wrote: Show us where those bolted route are in the old guide and maybe you will gain some credence.


I don't need your acceptance on anything Eric. Do you understand that?
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 24, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
If anyone presents convincing evidence that the route was led free, I will donate $100 to the 501(c)(3) charity or ST charity recipient of his/her choice.


In this case shouldn't it be Chris presenting evidence, other than his "assumption" that it wasn't led free?
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