Potential DEATH with SILENT PARTNER by RockExotica

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Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 21, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
I have used the Silent Partner on big walls before, and I know how to use it properly. Now, I have just bought a new rope (Beal Tiger Unicore Golden Dry, 10mm) and before I launch to climb a big route with it, I thought about testing it with my Silent Partner at home. Guess what; it does not work! I mean the drum locks but the rope runs through the clove hitch with very little resistance (30lb) and it does so even if I increase the speed of pulling (always making sure that the drum is locked). Yes, I have taken every care to make sure that I install the rope correctly - I have the manual in hand. WHAT IS GOING ON HERE? Does the Silent Partner works only with old ropes? I am totally disappointed, because I bought this new rope especially for using it with the Silent Partner. This is a VERY SERIOUS SAFETY ISSUE.

Any feedback welcome.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:43pm PT


"Any feedback welcome."...























































"Yer GONNA die!!!"...

Sewellymon

climber
.....in a single wide......
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:44pm PT
slightly OT but i have the same thing going on with my old Soloist.
Not working on new, skinnier, slick rope. Was an ooops to find out 1/2 way up a pitch...
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
How much weight did you put on the rope when you tested it?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:51pm PT
he mentioned,, 30 lbs...

agree,, YUR gonna die!
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
Was that how much weight he used or how much resistance when he was pulling on it? I'm pretty sure mine wouldn't lock with any rope with only a small (30lb) load, it took a lot of force to lock it off. I don't have it anymore but that's how I remember it.

If a clove hitch works with the rope then the SP should work right?
Vulcan

Sport climber
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:56pm PT
No you are not going to die. You tested it first.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
I never understood why the rope would run with the drum rolling but not run when the drum stopped anyway. Good thing you tested it.
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
If a clove hitch works with the rope then the SP should work right?

That is the idea. Does a clove hitch on a 'biner slip with your new rope? SPs have many, many, many hours of successful lab and successful real-world testing but perhaps a new thin rope with silicon coatings may not be the best choice for soloing.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 21, 2013 - 03:59pm PT
Dressed myself in green, I went down unto the sea.
Try to see whats goin down, try to read between the lines.
I had a feelin I was fallin, fallin, fallin,
I turned around to see,
Heard a voice al callin, lord you was comin after me.



rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 21, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
Back the silent partner up with a squirrel suit and you should be good to go...
Ian Jewell

climber
Jul 21, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
there should be a scoring system for " YUR GONNA DIE ! "

first utterance , obviously , also stylish execution , extra points if the guy actually dies ( ? , maybe not )

however you slice it, FACT : LOCKER IS THE TRUE CHAMPION !!!!
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jul 21, 2013 - 04:08pm PT
"Potential DEATH with SILENT PARTNER by RockExotica"

"Inability to properly use equipment" might be a more accurate title.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 21, 2013 - 04:16pm PT
Hail to the Locker, forecaster of death...
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jul 21, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
they dont call em "silent partners" fer nothin.. U die, they dont talk..
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 21, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
good one ron,
we should call 'em capone
from now on.
maldaly

Trad climber
Boulder, CO
Jul 21, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
Defective Rope
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2013 - 04:55pm PT
Dudes, take it easy :-)
1) I know how to use the device, all right?
2) The rope is not "skinny" - it is a 10mm rope, and the SP is supposed to work with 9.8mm and even thinner ropes (according to manufacturer).
3) Yes, the rope is very slippery because it is new out of the box. My feeling is that it will work just fine with the SP after I take it to the crag a couple of times (top rope, rappel, just use).
4) The fact that the clove hitch works with a rope on a biner it does not mean that it should do so, necessarily, also on the thick drum of the SP.
5) Someone forgot Newton's 3rd law: "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction." Asking whether I applied a stronger pull is a fool question. I wrote: I tried a faster pull but the resistance (after the drum is locked) did not increase sufficiently (max 40lb). THIS IS A SERIOUS FAULT.
6) With used ropes (I tested a 9.9mm and a 9.0mm) the SP locks completely, perhaps after a little slippage (I mean after the drum is locked), no more than 1ft max.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 21, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
Alrighty, then. . . I sent this link to Blanchard and here's his reply:

I just tried my SP on a Beal 9.8mm 'Golden Dry' that has been used one day (6 pitches of trad granite, one rappel). It locks up just fine. It 'slips' about 2 or 3 inches as the clove hitch tightens up, similar to what all ropes do.

Don't know if that helps, but. . . there ya have it.

Kath
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Jul 21, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
Test your rope with a clove hitch on a pull up or weight lifting bar or something then, out of curiosity.

Asking about force of pull is logical. Clove hitches work with friction and increase force = increased friction and then it locks. I wasn't sure if you tested it by dropping a 30 lb weight or if you just pulled on the rope and it felt like 30 lbs of resistance while slipping. The force that momentum transfers to the rope when it catches a fall is a whole lot more than the force of pulling on a tensioned rope. Pulling a rope "faster" doesn't increase the force on the rope much, it just increased the centripetal force within the silent partner, but it was already locked so it really wasn't doing anything.

Just trying to get a clear picture of what's going on, nothing too "foolish" here ;)
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 21, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
I remember almost dying from Blanchards silent but deadlies...Dude was strung out on the Tamalax and rapid fire cuppings...RJ
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 21, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
^^^^^^ Yer Killin' Me ^^^^^^^

You guys were on a FARTING DIET, as I recall!

You'd make me go to town for TEN GREEN BURRITOS from Del Taco. . . although Blanchard always stood on the premise that it wasn't WHAT he ate. . . it was HOW HE ATE IT. . . meaning inhaling. . . everything!

HILARIOUS!

briham89

Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
Jul 21, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
What a stupid title for this thread....
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 21, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ I think I have to agree ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
Gunkie

Trad climber
East Coast US
Jul 21, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
Gee, I only tested the SP with my falling body. And I'm still here for some strange reason.
Ben909

Trad climber
toronto
Jul 21, 2013 - 09:10pm PT
All devices work differently with different ropes and a manufacturers diameter doesn't really tell you much about this. Beal has really soft ropes and looser sheath. In any case, if you are holding the destruction book in front of you, you will note that you have to climb with an insane jiggery pokery of backup knots clusterf*#ked to your harness which will undoubtedly save you in the event of any unforeseen slippage.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 21, 2013 - 09:15pm PT
i checked my rope,
a 9.7 x 70 mammut.

right out of the bag,
into the silent partner.

it seems like i have
more trouble with it tightening
(due to rope weight) than
failing to tighten.

i've taken some falls on the device
and it never let go of the knot.

the o.p. seems to be looking
for faults and thus set himself (herself?)
up to find them.

the silent partner is very safe,
and quite fun.

one word of caution:
be conscious of how you rack your gear,
nuts on a gear loop adjacent to the device
can get sucked into the system
and thus delay it's engagment
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 21, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
ou have to climb with an insane jiggery pokery of backup knots clusterf*#ked to your harness

totally, man. way clusterfuk
Credit: Norwegian
Credit: Norwegian
Credit: Norwegian
Credit: Norwegian
i really love looking at meself on the internet
Ihateplastic

Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
Jul 22, 2013 - 02:22am PT
I remember almost dying from Blanchards silent but deadlies

Hitler's Death camps had NOTHING on Mark! I spent too many nights in tents, etc. with that guy and know first hand.

Mark once borrowed a Chouinard Foamback cagoule from a mutual friend. He used it no more than an hour or two. The thing NEVER recovered and had to be burned at the stake.
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2013 - 03:54am PT
I just tried my SP on a Beal 9.8mm 'Golden Dry' that has been used one day (6 pitches of trad granite, one rappel). It locks up just fine. It 'slips' about 2 or 3 inches as the clove hitch tightens up, similar to what all ropes do.

That helps, thanks. Perhaps I forgot to say that I love my SP. As any other partner, once it disappointed me, but our relationship is solid. I think that I figured out what was wrong even before Blanchard's response. The waterproofing coating of a brand new rope makes it very slippery. This effect is MUCH reduced once the rope has been used a little. I would recommend a series of full-length rappels with a figure-of-eight device before using it with the SP. By the way, the proper functioning of the SP relies on rope-to-rope and rope-to-drum FRICTION. If any of the two (or both) friction coefficients is too low, e.g. due to a slippery rope, the clove hitch will slide infinitely regardless of the character of the pull.

PS. The title was intentionally "stupid" so as to attract immediate attention.

PSS. Many knots, Norwegian, yet none of them seems to be a proper back-up, LoL
Credit: Ibex
Stevee B

Mountain climber
Oakland, CA
Jul 22, 2013 - 04:14am PT
Hold up, Norweigan, lets get back to that insane Bertha you posted. So good.
Always strange to me how 1978 was such a hit & miss year but such a great year for Bertha.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 22, 2013 - 08:05am PT
Over the years, we've seen some interesting methods by which to manage the rope. . . I, personally, LOVE the way Weeg does it. Blanchard and I came up with a rope bag idea, too. . . it's kind of a big chalk bag (for lack of a better descriptor). . . and it hangs sideways, clipped in to the back of your harness with Fastex buckles. You just flake the rope into it and it feeds out from there.

Creativity abounds!

:-)

PS. The title was intentionally "stupid" so as to attract immediate attention.


You could have been a little less dramatic!


stich

Trad climber
Colorado Springs, Colorado
Jul 22, 2013 - 08:38am PT
What? No one is going to even have POTENTIAL DEATH here? I guess everything has at least some potential for death, even chicken sammichs. Hey, ask Momma Cass.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 22, 2013 - 08:40am PT
^ ^ ^ ^ HA. . . I actually gave thought to starting a thread with some kind of smarty pants line about potential death by something benal, but decided not to!

:-)
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Jul 22, 2013 - 08:50am PT
What Steve B said that particular Bertha brought tears to my eyes! They look so Happy, everyone grateful one of them in the video. They're sharing magic! I saw them a lot, in that time frame, lots of life memories tied with that era.
My sp has never let me down!! brand new ropes are slippery even just to belay with, in any device. Reassuring that real blinny did that test though. Great work all! Kumbya 'n shit!
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Jul 22, 2013 - 09:13am PT


I use the Petzl Micro Traxion, and have a problem with it locking open when I pull in rope near the crux. What also freaks me out, though not as much, is I am afraid of getting something stuck in it between the cam and the rope rendering it useless.

Have you called the manufacturing engineers who signed off on it yet? That would be an interesting conversation, he should be freaking out by now.

I guess you have two choices: 1.) use a slightly warn and sticky rope.

[BTW I used a rope with a gri-gri in a chute full of white powder. The gri-gri got stuck so bad from a the little bit of powder in there, similar to chalk, but more slippery, that it would not work. In other words, what your rope is like has a lot to do with it, and if it is wet with an old rope or wet and a new rope, that would make for an interesting test as well. You should do that.]

2.) Get a machine shop to take it apart knurl some new test wheels and put it back together again with a lock nut and bolt rated for high strength. When I say knurl I am actually talking about making waves in it rather than abrasive points. If you go too far it will cut up the rope.

Using a slightly warn rope vs. a new rope in this system is obviously a factor. In this kind of system there would be one for new and one for old ropes. I don't think I like the idea of using slippery new ropes for anything related to soling in the kind of system your using now even if it works.

What happens when used or new ropes are wet in your system?
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jul 22, 2013 - 09:38am PT
The problem isn't your SP...it's your rope. You need to break that puppy in proper.

First of all...always mark the center of your rope. The bright orange spray paint that surveyors use works great....just don't spray any more than 6 inches of rope....you'll just waste paint.

Then...

Tie in and climb a White Fir tree on a REAL warm, summer day, then rap using a Figure 8 device.

Once down, flake the rope out into the ashy remains of an old campfire.

Then go do a nice long ridge climb....maybe North Ridge of Conness. Once you top out, stay tied in and trail the rope on the way back to Saddlebag.

When you get to Saddlebag, tie the rope to the bumper of your car and drive down to TPR for a cold one. (Be careful if any cars are coming toward you....if they drive over your rope, it may get damaged)

When you get home, coil that bad boy up and let your dog use it is for nap time.

Now your rope is broke in!

And now, no more worrying about the SP....problem solved!

I'm pretty sure this is all covered in the manual....but you gotta RTFM!!!!

DUH!
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 22, 2013 - 10:54am PT
Reassuring that real blinny did that test though.

Yeah. . . he's a swell guy. He doesn't come to TheTaco anymore, but as long as I'm still here, he gets word of SP yammer as soon I as do.

And. . . about breaking a rope in. . . hell. . .just drag it behind a front end loader for a mile or so!

:-)
LilaBiene

Trad climber
Technically...the spawning grounds of Yosemite
Jul 22, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
Note to Self: Stop reading these @^$&*! Q&A threads, lest Self gets all freaked out and decides to run away...Monty Python-like.
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 22, 2013 - 01:28pm PT
Mark once borrowed a Chouinard Foamback cagoule from a mutual friend. He used it no more than an hour or two. The thing NEVER recovered and had to be burned at the stake.

Ya know. . . that's still a standing joke around these parts!

:-0 YIKES
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 22, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
Thanks for this thread, despite some peoples' quibbles with its title. I, too, use and love my SP, but I'd never had occasion to use it on a brand-new rope. Now I know why I shouldn't.

John
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 22, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
I'm with you, John. . . it's a good thread.

It's a good reminder:

EVERYBODY SHOULD TEST THAT SUCKER EVERYTIME THEY USE IT. . . NEW ROPE OR OLD.

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Jul 22, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
crag you son-of-a,
why'd you send the o.p.
up a piss fir?

you could skip the foul sap
and just take
6 dehydrated-like bright
orange bladder movements
on your rope
and that should right and proper
break it in.

Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2013 - 05:09pm PT
I just tried my SP on a Beal 9.8mm 'Golden Dry' that has been used one day (6 pitches of trad granite, one rappel). It locks up just fine. It 'slips' about 2 or 3 inches as the clove hitch tightens up, similar to what all ropes do.

I have a lot of respect for the lad who devised the SP, yet my respect would had increased (rather than decreased) if he had at first admitted the problem. Yes, AFTER SOME USE (not clear how much) the rope works with the SP, but how about right out of the box? Can Mr Blanchard tell us if he tried that, too? I hope that everyone gets this message, and that's all I want. The SP is great, but be aware that it can fail with slippery ropes, in particular with brand new, waterproof-coated ropes.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jul 22, 2013 - 05:19pm PT


I find the rope to be useless, unless I tie knots...
Baron Weasel

Trad climber
England
Jul 22, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
I have used Unicore ropes for caving and they do handle differently to other ropes. I'd suggest contacting Beal and Silent Partner to give them a heads up about your experience as it is in their interests to look after their customers (as dead ones spend way less money...)
eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 22, 2013 - 05:24pm PT
I have a lot of respect for the lad who devised the SP, yet my respect would had increased (rather than decreased) if he had at first admitted the problem.

He'd never heard of the issue until I sent him your post yesterday at which time he immediately went out to his shop and ran the test he reports in that post.

He had nothing to admit!

I repeat - your post was the first he'd ever heard of this issue.

Plus. . . he has nothing to do with the manufacture of the Silent Partner, never did.

If you have issues you should contact Rock Thompson of Rock Exotica. He's the one manufacturing them.

Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2013 - 05:31pm PT
eKat,

I did what you say before I posted anything at Supertopo. I will let you all know when I hear back from Rock Exotica. I did not mean that Blanchard is by any way responsible, but as he run to defend the SP he could had as well admitted the problem first. Anyway, my respect for him is still very high :-)

RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jul 22, 2013 - 06:34pm PT


Heads up with ur new rope, if u are belaying with a Grigri it will probably want to slip thru that as well. Just a heads up so you don't have to blame it on petzl when it happens.

New ropes are slippery should be the title of this thread.

Small companies have enough struggles without bullshit like this.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jul 22, 2013 - 06:39pm PT

EVERYONE THROW AWAY YOUR USELESS "SILENT PARTNERS"!!!...

They're DANGEROUS and your rope IS going to slip...

then...

















































"Yer GONNA die!!!"...

eKat

Trad climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
Jul 22, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
, but as he run to defend the SP he could had as well admitted the problem first.

In the interest of clarity, I will repeat, your post yesterday was the first we'd heard of this issue.

It's impossible to admit a problem you are unaware of.

?

Kath over and out

Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Jul 22, 2013 - 07:03pm PT
I had a brand new rope last year when I soloed Iron Hawk using a Silent Partner. It held first try in my many tests and held four or five falls on the route itself.
It was a 10.2 Metolius Monster rope.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 22, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
Ihateplastic...don't fret about the cagoule..There is a class action lawsuit being filed against Osha and includes anyone whoever was exposed to toxic gasses in close quarters with Blanchard...RJ
mucci

Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
Jul 22, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
I have never used a SP, yet somehow I have garnered enough information to know KNOTT to use a brand new rope.

Makes perfect sense to me.


Todd Eastman

climber
Bellingham, WA
Jul 22, 2013 - 11:24pm PT
My fouled foamback hung above the kitty litter box to freshen...
WTF

climber
Jul 22, 2013 - 11:46pm PT
What would Weld It and Burt Bronson do?
Cragman

Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jul 23, 2013 - 12:01am PT
^Each other.
ocasals

Trad climber
Madrid
Jul 23, 2013 - 12:48pm PT

I use a 10mm Beal Tiger, golden dry (not unicore, bought arround 2009). I use it only to solo climb and it worked well from the first day (from "out of the box"). I only have "hand-tested" it, without takeing any real hard falls. I allways make some test pulls before starting a climb to make sure everything's ok, and I don't recall it ever slipping.

Hope it was of some help!
DaveT.

Big Wall climber
Mammoth Lakes
Jul 23, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
Lets see a pic of your set up please. I've used mine many, many times on all types of ropes. I've had similar problems with 'hand' testing it- back it up and take the whipper, then report back to us. The clove must dynamically lock up, or it will slip. Quit hand testing it, and actually test it? Mine has never failed me, and yes, I have fallen on it many times with many different types of ropes
DaveT.

Big Wall climber
Mammoth Lakes
Jul 23, 2013 - 01:20pm PT
You're probably setting it up correctly, just give it a whip to see if it locks. Clove hitches are much more likely to snap tight with a dynamic loading, and this device needs dynamics to properly activate.

Good luck!

I've only had my self belay fail once, while rope soloing a 11a with a 9.1 rope through a very well-used gri gri. I went to the back up knot, 30 feet later.
Deekaid

climber
Jul 23, 2013 - 01:38pm PT
Good post, as usual, from Dave T.
My experience has shown the same as what Dave is saying, although his is vastly more extensive than mine. I am also pretty sure he doesn't use the 50 clove hitch backup method.
Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jul 23, 2013 - 02:12pm PT
Dave is right on, pulling by hand is no "test", no surprise you can't get a new slick skinny to lock in that scenario. My SP has never failed to lock on any rope in an actual fall.

OTOH, I've done similar to DT on a gri-gri...went 15' and stopped about 8" off the ground when the newish rope wasn't loaded quickly (slipping down a less than vert face) and just kept sliding through.

You seem hell bent on implying there is some design flaw or something, and calling for someone to "admit" something. Yet, in 20 years, you are the only person I've ever seen claiming this "problem", and somehow the rest of us who own it have never experienced this so-called "problem".

Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
No, I am NOT saying that there is anything wrong with the SP. It does what it is designed to do, and it is a great device. Just forget about your own experiences and listen, if you wish. The blocking of the clove hitch relies on friction (rope-to-rope and rope-to-metal). Very simply, a brand new, slippery rope (mine is 10mm, Unicore, Golden-Dry) does not seem to provide enough friction... And yes, the blocking performance does depend on acceleration / speed. However, MY HOME TESTING, PULLING BY HAND, SUGGESTS THAT VERY SLIPPERY ROPES TEND TO SLIP ENDLESSLY. Therefore, ALL I WANT TO SAY IS: Do your own tests before you go climbing. Until further testing, tomorrow am leaving for a climb with my SP (2500ft, 5.9) but I am taking my old rope :-)
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Jul 23, 2013 - 05:13pm PT
When I first got my SP I tested the sh#t out of it.

I rigged a seperate toprope that I tied into short of the ground on overhanging terrain.

Then I took all kinds of falls on it it, Rigged right, rigged wrong .. did everything I could think of to make it fail.

Till I understood it and trusted it.

Offhand it sounds like this is just one rope that might not be best suited for the SP.

But i'd like to see you test it in a real fall with backup and see what happens..

I am curious


Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
I did the same when I bought mine, years ago :-)

But since I was the first (and the only one so far) who reported this problem, I will do a realistic fall-on-the-SP test to see what happens and I will report back to you here, provided that I will come back from the previously-mentioned climb (I will be away until Saturday). In the meanwhile, if anyone else has access to a brand new, Unicore, Golden Dry rope, please try to do the same basic test that I did, which is also suggested in the SP manual.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jul 23, 2013 - 08:44pm PT
Risk nothing, fear everything!

Credit: pud
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2013 - 04:15pm PT
I am coming back to report that after taking that brand new slippery rope on a big alpine route (2400 vertical feet of sharp granite) now it functions just fine with the SP. Yet, the question remains: is it safe to use a brand new slippery rope with the SP? I did not have the time to do a proper test simulating a real fall. Be cautious and do your own testing if you plan to use the SP with a brand new rope (mine was a Beal Tiger Unicore Golden Dry).
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Aug 14, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
Ibex, you are on here bad mouthing the Silent Partner for quite some time now, but you have not even taken the time to rig it up and jump off with a spot or pad under you so that you can see that even with new ropes it will lock off? WTF?
I have taken the time, and a clove hitch WILL lock up on a Silent partner, new rope or not. Do yourself a favor and the rest of us, and delete this thread by deleting your first post.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Aug 14, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
Over at Mountain Project, the first rule of posting is: Don't be a jerk.
Melissa

Gym climber
berkeley, ca
Aug 14, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
In my experience w/ the SP, the drag of an old rope & it's tendency to seize when pulling slack was more annoying than using a new rope that feeds well but wouldn't catch on a pull test. If you want a device that let's you "take" on the rope, use a gri-gri. I want to use the SP if I'll need to free climb for a stretch and don't want to deal w/ my device at all. In my relatively limited experience falling on it, it seems to give a plenty hard catch when the moment arises.

Before I climbed outside w/ my SP for the first time, I went to the gym, got 2 belayers...one for a TR and one to be my anchor for the SP, and I led a backed up pitch on the SP and then fell on it a couple of times and did the butt-friction lower described in the pamphlet. That's a better way to test its ability to grab your rope.

(But of course, use back up knots and maybe run your weigh catcher sooner to avoid back-feeding w/ a slippery rope.)
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2013 - 03:50am PT
The SP has been and it still is an awesome device. I have used it extensively (probably more than most of you, guys) and I will continue using it.

I posted this topic because I noticed that its functioning is problematic when using extra slippery ropes. IN THE MANUAL (PAGE 14) IT IS WRITTEN: "GIVE IT A SHARP, QUICK TUG. THIS ACTION WILL SHOW YOU HOW IT LOCKS". Yet, with an extra slippery rope it does not lock! I experimented with a brand new Beal Tiger Unicore Golden dry 10mm. If concerned, go and do your own testing.

Studly: You can keep the WTF for your self! I bought that rope and the next day I had to use it, I am sorry. Now I have time for further testing but I do not have a brand new, slippery rope anymore.







Deekaid

climber
Aug 15, 2013 - 10:10am PT
many have made their own tests and are not concerned ...thanks though.
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
If you are part of the many, and if you please, can you share with the rest of us the details and the results of your tests? I have done my own fall tests in the past, but here I refer particularly to brand new ropes with dry coating. Have you and the many understood this important detail?
Studly

Trad climber
WA
Aug 15, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
Have you even once Ibex jumped off on a new rope and tested the Silent Partner? It appears you have not, even after being told repeatedly that is what is necessary to alleviate your fears. You jumped to conclusions just by hand pulling the rope. With a slippery new rope with dry treatment, it generally won't lock up with a hand pull, but only with a fall that generates some speed, and with the correct rope orientation as in actual climbing.
sangoma

Trad climber
south africa
Aug 15, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
Ibex , you had better send me you're SP and a brand new slippery rope so that I can do some extensive testing for you , we don't want you falling on you're head , now do we ?

PS, make that a blue rope pls.
Abram

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Aug 15, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
I think the point is that starting a thread with an incredibly sensationalist title like "Potential DEATH with SILENT PARTNER by RockExotica" is not cool, when you haven't even bothered to confirm the validity of a pretty grave accusation that you're making. SPs are safe, reliable, and pretty much foolproof. If you're going to say otherwise, bring some real evidence!
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 15, 2013 - 05:15pm PT
Ibex, give it a rest. If anyone strapping on an SP actually needed this 'warning' they shouldn't be rope-soloing to begin with. And on SP the audience of people who would give a damn about the topic probably run more solo yardage in a season than you will over the course of your climbing career.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
Aug 15, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
I hand tested my brand new Silent Partner with a brand new Metolius 10.2 Monster rope successfully a dozen times before I took it out on the rock and did a jump test. It easily locked up in the hand test. My rope was not a dry rope and was thicker that Ibex's but it is similar. I would have had the same concerns as his if my hand tests had failed.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 16, 2013 - 02:54am PT
Sure, but if a rope did fail that hand test, would you question the SP or the appropriateness of that particular device/rope combo? And wouldn't you just try a different rope?

I use a 9.9mm NE Glider with my Eddy and arrived at it after some trial and error. Calling an impedance mismatch between a solo device and any given rope a "VERY SERIOUS SAFETY ISSUE" is more than a little over-the-top as is relentlessly pushing the issue as such.

Again, anyone who can't figure out - if a given rope is slipping through their solo device - that they then need to try another, definitely shouldn't be rope-soloing to begin with.

Better would have been a simple statement, minus the hysterics, that the combination of an SP and a 10mm Beal Unicore appear to be sub-optimal.
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 10:30am PT
I agree that the topic title may have been too much. Yet, for safety issues too much emphasis is better than not enough emphasis. In any case, despite all reassurances that Studly tries to put forward, I find quite alarming that the hand test fails and I don't give a damn about any guesses that "it will" lock in a real fall. I asked him very directly: what are the details and the results of the tests that he mentioned, there was no response on that. Mr Studly, I ought to tell you that the human hand can pull with an acceleration greater than the gravitational one. Moreover, even school kids know that between two solid mediums higher relative speed does not mean greater friction. Do not talk about physics if you understand too little of it.

You seem to refuse reading before answering:
I bought that rope and the next day I had to use it, I am sorry. Now I have time for further testing but I do not have a brand new, slippery rope anymore.
Deekaid

climber
Aug 16, 2013 - 11:03am PT
You appear to be the one with the reading issue. People have stated over and over that they have tested it with new slippery ropes. It isn't worth restating and you seem pretty trollish.
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 16, 2013 - 12:52pm PT
I have made my point clear,
and I am happy to leave it here.

If you can, please point to one of the previous 81 responses
that clearly states that someone (himself/herself) has tested
the SP with a rope that did not pass the hand test and he/she
has found that it actually locks in a real fall scenario.

NO ONE has said this so far.





Deekaid

climber
Aug 16, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
you and the hand test jerk harder and faster that's what she said... I'm done now Chicken Little
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Aug 16, 2013 - 05:57pm PT
I have nothing to add except that I was playing hookey the other day and after the days climb was over, had to hike back down to the base and there was Studly about to fire off on a solo climb. Now I wish I'd taken a photo to add to this thread or at least payed attention to what he was using or how he was tying in......

Anyway, good luck with the device Ibex, your title to this thread was overly dramatic, but if it keeps even one person out of the dirt cause they exercised extra caution and testing with what ever device they choose, then what the heck. I've tried most of the devices out there and really don't care much for any of them.

To all, not saying anything folks don't know already, but a gentle reminder that cold weather will retard your Silent Partner, and may totally disable it. Retard, heh heh.....

Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 16, 2013 - 08:22pm PT
i got an idea.
i'll start a silent partner beauty thread,
to counter this utter bullshite
that spilled out in some un-called for tear-party,

and we'll give blanchard and shipoopi and the other
brave designers that gifted us this great device
their due-positive-credit.
tioga

Mountain climber
pac northwest
Aug 16, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
Ibex, I'm not a mechanical engineer, I a computer engineer (had to take enough physics though) and I recently done a lot of test engineering: what you say sounds very alarming--1) it takes only ONE failed test to uncover a problem... It doesn't matter if 100,000 tests pass and 1000 users are happy. Often, it take many, many successful tests before the failed one 2) If the device doesn't have sufficiently clear manual for the average intended user to operate it correctly or isn't designed to be easy enough to operate, by average user, under WORST expected conditions...it shouldn't be on the market, simply. (I'm against climbing with mechanical aids/devices in general, but this one sounds quite alarming). Don't see why people argue against your post. I don't trust this new mechanical crap. Next thing there'll be what...electronics in those?
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2013 - 03:49am PT
Tioga, I do not line up with you. The Silent Partner is ingeniously designed, and it is the best solo-belay device out there for the people who need one. I have done most of my solos without a rope, but when I need to self-belay, silent is my partner and it will always be. Yet, remembering of Karl Popper, what you say that "it takes only one failed test to uncover a problem..." is definitely true. There are always some naive disbelievers... Deekaid, go and aid your deek with a fast jerk.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 17, 2013 - 06:23am PT
Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the device. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the rope. It's simply just a sub-optimal pairing.
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 22, 2013 - 09:55am PT
It's simply just a sub-optimal pairing.

According to Shakespeare, it is as you like it, but only for you.

Do you believe what I said, that the SP hand-test failed regardless
of how fast and strong I pulled? If yes, then WHY do you conclude so
easily that it is a minor issue? I have no personal interest, here.
Just asking.
kaholatingtong

Trad climber
Nevada City
Aug 22, 2013 - 10:30am PT
wait, your telling me .... IM GONNA DIE? original.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 22, 2013 - 10:32am PT


^^^

"Yer GONNA die!!!"...

;-)

Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2013 - 04:12am PT
...your test indicates nothing other than perhaps you should use a different rope.
That is exactly what I have been saying, dude. If you and other users like, we can chatter here eternally, but the bottom line is, to say it one last time: "do not use the SP with a brand-new, waterproof treated rope (extra slippery) without testing it first up to your own standards". My standards require that the rope should function with the SP at least as described in the manual (hand-pull test). Please leave it here.

Enjoy your solo voyages,

Ibex
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 23, 2013 - 09:46am PT


"My standards require that the rope should function with the SP at least as described in the manual"...


Very unreasonable standards...

The nerve of some people!!!...

Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2013 - 05:39pm PT
Either you can justify what you are saying, or that is nonsense.
Why do you think that my requirement is an "unreasonable" expectation
from a rope? If your brake pedal feels spongy, will you keep driving
as normal without checking the brakes?
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 23, 2013 - 05:56pm PT
kev

climber
A pile of dirt.
Aug 23, 2013 - 07:11pm PT
You know if you keep it up the only partner you will have is your silent partner. If you're so freaked out don't use it.
Norwegian

Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
Aug 23, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
would you kindly cease the senseless banter?
please refrain from the unwarranted slander?
Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2013 - 06:58am PT
If you're so freaked out don't use it.
I am not at all freaked out. All my ropes work perfectly with the SP.
Simply, one of them failed the hand-pull test when it was brand new
and slippery. Keep that in mind, and that is all about it.
Thanks for reading.
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Aug 25, 2013 - 10:27am PT
Jeezus f*#king christ.. you guys are still here going round and round about this?. Everyone's repeating themselves over and over at this point.


Just go climb something and get the hell away from this thread.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Aug 25, 2013 - 10:50am PT


"Jeezus f*#king christ.. you guys are still here going round and round about this?. Everyone's repeating themselves over and over at this point."...


I consider that NORMAL around here...

;-)



Ibex

climber
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 25, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
I try to end it, but you are working against.
Please rest in peace, all of you :-)
Febs

Trad climber
Northern Italy
Nov 26, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
Ibex... have you got any reply from Rock Exotica? You wrote "I will let you all know when I hear back from Rock Exotica" so I'd really know what was the official answer to your concerns.

If a super new skinny rope can actually be an issue with the SP, I simply think that the manual should be updated accordingly.
That manual covers plenty of things in accurate detail - as it should be for any climbing device, especially a solo one - and this info would be an important addition. After all, if the manual is not touched since decades as it looks (other than to replace "wren industries" with "rock exotica" on the cover, I mean) it would be simply fair and necessary to update it considering that probably single ropes as super-coated as the one you tested did not exist at the time the SP was engineered and released.

Just thinking.

Oh, by the way: Yer gonna die!!!
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