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Messages 1 - 48 of total 48 in this topic
nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 15, 2013 - 02:43pm PT
I was at the gym today and it was on the tube. It was growth, growth, and more growth. People really don't get it, do they? More isn't better, better is better.
Economics are just fascinating.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jul 15, 2013 - 02:48pm PT

I personally wouldn't know...

I base my life 100% on the FOX News channel...

JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 15, 2013 - 02:54pm PT
Economic growth is quite good to those who experience it, and is certainly the main reason why so many people get to do things such as climb, rather than spend 18 hours a day subsistence farming.

John
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 15, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Economic growth is quite good to those who experience it, and is certainly the main reason why so many people get to do things such as climb, rather than spend 18 hours a day subsistence farming.

John


Is there any progress on getting rid of stupid regs that protect the 'Delta Smelt'?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jul 15, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
I was at the gym today and it was on the tube. It was growth, growth, and more growth. People really don't get it, do they? More isn't better, better is better.
Economics are just fascinating.

- Sent from my iPhone

Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 15, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
How else do we have another corrective crash without the preceding bubble of growth?
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 15, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
How else do we have another corrective crash without the preceding bubble of growth?


Easy. Create a communist model where everybody is the same (except the rulers), and the economy is perpetually flat.

That's good, right???
nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2013 - 03:07pm PT

I personally wouldn't know...

I base my life 100% on the FOX News channel...


yeah, sure you do....
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Jul 15, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
Infinite growth is required for capitalism. That's why it will ultimately fail. In spite of all our crap, the U.S. rates low on most happiness scales...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 15, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
Infinite growth is required for capitalism.

Is there any successful society that doesn't adhere to that?

That's why it will ultimately fail. In spite of all our crap, the U.S. rates low on most happiness scales...


Compared to who? Why do so many strive to come here from their shitholes? Why haven't you sought to go to these havens of heaven on Earth?
nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
if things go on as they are this will be a shithole too.
dirtbag

climber
Jul 15, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
Infinite growth relies on infinite resource use.

Yeah that's a sustainable model for 7,000,000,000 + people.
nevahpopsoff

Boulder climber
the woods
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2013 - 04:22pm PT
my point exactly.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 15, 2013 - 04:25pm PT
It will be sustainable once the Rich 1% realize that the rest of us are in fact...edible!

If Ouch were here - I would expect a picture of barbequed Bluering with an apple in his mouth!
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 15, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
Infinite growth relies on infinite resource use.

Yeah that's a sustainable model for 7,000,000,000 + people.


If you don't use and optimize a "resource", it stagnates. Why are they called resources?

And what resource allows you to live with a f*#king computer? Easy to sh#t on capitalism from your keyboard, hypocrite!

Meh...
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 15, 2013 - 04:40pm PT
Bluering Carbonara is on the menu!
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Jul 15, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
Growth, or at least exponential growth (is there a difference), is mathematically unsustainable:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=umFnrvcS6AQ

This lecture is well worth the hour spent.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 15, 2013 - 06:47pm PT
We could sure use a man like Herbert Hoover again..!
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jul 15, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
THINK GLOBAL, SHOP LOCAL?




IE, BUY SH#T MADE IN CHINA AT YOUR LOCAL WALMART.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 15, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
Oh pooh on buy local American made.

American Industry had incentive to build local when it's primary reason for being was to feed the voracious appetite of the largest population surge in our history - the Baby Boomers. Industrial growth followed population growth and all had jobs and all prospered.

Now that wave has passed, the Boomers spend relatively little money and the subsequent Generations are fewer in raw numbers and have no interest in developing massive industrial public projects.

Instead, countries like Brazil, India and "gasp" China are where the action is at these days. They have the booming populations of younger upwardly mobile populations wanting the gadgets and gizmos of the world. They are building the infrastructure of what a developing nation requires and it follows that companies that previously built the backbone of America are relocating to where the new backbones are being built

Industrial and Manufacturing money follows need and the need is no longer enough within our own borders to support such industries.

Which is why 35 percent of my investment portfolio is in developing markets!

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 15, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
I don't know if this is on topic or not..

But why is it that every President somewhere in his speach touts;

"WE ARE THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH!"

Where does this audacity come from? Is this what we the people want to hear from our leader? Is this how Americans should feel about the rest of the world? Aren't we all
descendents from these other country's. Then if we are truely Great, shouldn't we
reach out with a humble helping hand, instead of a ruling iron fist?

Why don't the voters have any say in foreign diplomacy or foreign aid?
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
It only makes sense if you have one of these -

US of Fukin A baby!
US of Fukin A baby!
Credit: Ricky D
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
christians are the scum of the earth and its high time we stop catering to their intesests in burning other people at the stake
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
well now that depends rSin - are you a witch or a newt?


What you should really be asking is why are there helmeted black men running at me from the ESPN sidebar on the right of the forum page?
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
Ricky D...Those are young Domincan hotties......Clean your screen...!
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:24pm PT
I'm pretty sure they are black guys wearing helmets - I think I might need a gun.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
Quick...I'll go get my sister and a flashlight....
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
Infinite growth relies on infinite resource use.

Yeah that's a sustainable model for 7,000,000,000 + people.


If you don't use and optimize a "resource", it stagnates. Why are they called resources?

And what resource allows you to live with a f*#king computer? Easy to sh#t on capitalism from your keyboard, hypocrite!

Jesus Christ blurring

Ya think it's about time ya stopped pickleling your brain everyday yet?
Seriously ...
You're done to a couple brain cells here brother ...
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 15, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
good people everyone on the interest are just find and happy with africans getting raped murdered and sold down the the river to trim 5 bucks off the cost of the product their going to throw away tomorrow when the next commercial tells em to
Nohea

Trad climber
Living Outside the Statist Quo
Jul 16, 2013 - 01:40am PT
Ok so lets see who the Economically challenged people are.

Do you have 8 months of expenses in liquid holdings?

Do you have any credit card or consumer debt?

Do you have a will and your assets legally distributed by your choice?

Do you have retirement savings that are significant for your age?

Me? 1. Yes 2. Zero 3. Yes 4. Yes

CNBC is a great resource, Econ rocks! They are tv so so their goal is viewers but like the wsj they get some interesting guests.

I've considered buying Cramer's Rec's but when it's your money, you tend to do more research.

I enjoy a few of their programs.

Free markets are what the world needs.

Edit: let me repeat for possible penetration. I do not buy anything b/cuz cramer says so. He is irritatingly entertaining. CNBC is entertainment but you can learn a fair amount from them.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Jul 16, 2013 - 06:48am PT
There are a bunch of studies that show that listening to Jim Cramer is worse than throwing darts at the newspaper.
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 16, 2013 - 06:52am PT
I've considered buying Cramer's Rec's but when it's your money, you tend to do more research.

So much for YOUR credibility!
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 16, 2013 - 07:12am PT
and so goes the lot of us...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 16, 2013 - 08:08am PT
Bluering Carbonara is on the menu!


enjoy!
dirtbag

climber
Jul 16, 2013 - 09:15am PT
Blurring you are a delusional fascist prick. I'm not shitting on capitalism. I'm shitting on the notion that unrestrained growthand unfettered resource consumption is sustainable. That's a fookin fact. Duh.


Maybe you should put down the bottle.

Edit: go ahead and pickle your last few brain cells. Maybe then you'll be too stupefied to vote.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Jul 16, 2013 - 09:23am PT


"But why is it that every President somewhere in his speach touts;

"WE ARE THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH!"

Where does this audacity come from?"
...




I agree!!!...

I fuking HATE this, "America is the greatest country and people in the world"!!!...


BULLSHI!T!!!...

We're NOT the greatest!!!...

We're just one of the GREEDIEST...





MikeL

climber
SANTA CLARA, CA
Jul 16, 2013 - 11:08am PT
Sure. No doubt, . . . capitalism is due for a major tune-up, maybe even an overhaul. Ditto for economics. Ditto for democracy. (Is there really any doubt?)

It seems to me that people prefer polar extremes, . . . or at least they take extremes to heart as a child to a mother's breast.

Capitalism vs. socialism. Leadership vs. followership. Profit-maximization vs. social responsibility. Free will vs. determinism. Centralization versus decentralization. Conservatism vs. liberalism. Science vs. religion. As Jan has noted elsewhere, there's no middle ground available, there's no sense of compromise, and there's no "little bit of this and a little bit of that." We feel We Must be consistent in our views--otherwise we'd expose ourselves as ignorant, stupid, or uneducated. We must hold monolithic views.

Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

How can any one theory or single perspective allow us to see truth, the good, or the beautiful?

Life--and the things that one constructs in it--are all projects. One builds, experiments, amends, substitutes, tears down, and rebuilds, and again, and again.

There's nothing really wrong with a little bit of this and a little bit of that, is there?

It takes a nuanced mind to navigate and work with the gaps between what we think and what we experience.

Nuanced minds enjoy humor, absurdity, and ambiguity.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
Jul 16, 2013 - 11:40am PT
Nuanced minds enjoy humor, absurdity, and ambiguity.

Hear, hear! Now a few random thoughts on what I've read on this thread:

1. I'm curious about how people decide where the U.S. stands on "happiness." I frankly don't even find happiness a worthwhile measure, compared with, say, contentment.

2. I don't think there's ever been a serious debate about whether our resources limit population. The debate over the Malthusian hypothesis asks whether resources regulate population, i.e. whether our population fluctuates in correlation with fluctuations in resources available.

3. Capitalism depends neither on a constantly-rising population nor on a constantly-rising use of resources. Capitalism depends on scarcity, since it is a method of allocating scarce resources.

4. Heavily socialized economies, in contrast, suffer when their populations of earners do not grow, because those earners must pay for increasing numbers of non-earners.

5. There are an awful lot of trolls on ST.

;>)


John
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 16, 2013 - 11:46am PT
"But why is it that every President somewhere in his speach touts;

"WE ARE THE GREATEST NATION ON EARTH!"

why?

because if a candidate or President did NOT say that, the opposing political party would jump all over him accusing him of being unpatriotic

ya gotta wrap yourself in the flag to get elected, and don't forget the flag lapel pin
Gary

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 16, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
4. Heavily capitalized economies, in contrast, suffer when their populations of earners do not grow, because those earners must pay for the non-earners.

Fixed that for you, John!
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 16, 2013 - 12:43pm PT
John E, you silly, only animals are smart enough to let resources govern
fecundity - how else to explain population increases of homeric proportions in
places like Somalia, Niger, or Mali?

As for the problem of increasingly top-heavy demographics it isn't a problem
when the population is literate, hard-working, and pays their taxes. Case
in point - Japan. Not too many elderly homeless in Japan. Not too many
elderly in the soup lines in Norway, Germany, or Switzerland, despite their
dependence on capitalism. Wait, I don't think any of those countries even
have soup lines.

ps
In order to help the homeless I propose that the food being refused in
Pelican Bay be distributed to the homeless in SFO.
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Jul 16, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
the people purchase the extremes ONLY when the market doesnt bring them the choices in between that their demanding...
goatboy smellz

climber
Nederland-GulfBreeze
Jul 16, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
Capitalism is better than all the the other alternatives.[/fact]

Even though it stumbles and contracts every generation on hopes and fears, it usually learns from its mistakes and through regulation and reform comes back stronger.

Regarding limited resources capitalism has great capacity to create renewable resources through recycling, copper, iron, paper; even turning our landfills into gases that can fuel factories and cars.

Capitalism is freedom and will continue to truck along.
Just look through kickstarter.com and imagine the possibities.



rrider

climber
Mckinleyville, Ca
Jul 16, 2013 - 05:04pm PT
Bigger, Faster, More Money, and More Power. Oh And A Little Mess And Collateral Damage Which We Will Worry About Later. That is what seems to drive the “highly evolved” successful humanoids on this rock. Here are a few of them in action:

http://youtu.be/3J4HHNX8WxQ

so proud
jghedge

climber
Jul 16, 2013 - 06:08pm PT

Speaking of CNBC, I haven't seen talking heads annihilated by a guest this completely in a while (if ever)

rottingjohnny

Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
Jul 16, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
Those talking dick heads are lite on fact and heavy on opinion while barking up the wrong tree...
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Jul 22, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
Consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.

How can any one theory or single perspective allow us to see truth, the good, or the beautiful?


Ah, the quintessential Libertarian. Always bitching about both sides and directing people to an unattainable "middle-ground", without offering paths to get there.

This is what I hate about f*#king Libertarians! Always whining, no path to solution.

Rand Paul is the only wise Libertarian who understands that to get a Libertarian Prez, you need to run as a Repub, who is reasonable. And STFU about social issues, they don't matter!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 22, 2013 - 07:45pm PT
The only reason to watch it will soon be gone.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/out_networking_WzsI8m8BuXdBz2UrGNbLKP

The money honey is going to bail.
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