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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
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i hustle it out in less than an hour.
more than 200 would be robbery.
im the only logger in town that
shows to jobsites in a prius.
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ruppell
climber
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Jul 14, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
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Dishnetworks pay there guys about 15 an hour so 200 is more than fair. As far as the handyman law goes it would seem that it may or may not apply here. You in fact have to have a license to install cable or sat equipment in Cali. So you have a guy doing unlicensed work for less than 500. I've never heard of anyone actually calling in an inspection for a sat install so to me it's a grey area.
Either way not getting paid sucks. I'd just keep sending the invoice in hopes that it eventually gets paid. If not small claims is an option but it would hardly be worth the time.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 14, 2013 - 02:56pm PT
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hey there say, norwegian....
what rankin said in this quote, seems fair, though i don't
know about these things:
Norweigan, don't engage in any form of self-help like removing the dish. In California you only have to be licensed for projects valued at $500 or more for labor and materials. You have legal recourse, but it will probably not be needed. But just so you know, California does handle small claims in their general court system, which do not require, and in fact prohibit lawyers from appearing in court. http://www.courts.ca.gov/selfhelp-smallclaims.htm
My advice, although I am not your attorney (disclaimer, haha), is to write a tasteful demand letter addressing the issues to the client. Good luck.
you should go back, with at least TWO folks in buisness suits, (as witnesses) (do you know any legal-work type folks that would go with you)
and take them a nice note saying that you really need your pay for your family's food, and that you may have to take them to the small claims court, if not) ... thus, you have two witnesses that you were cordial and
and needfully wanting your DUE pay...
this might help, but going alone, from now on, may not be good... they could 'turn on you'... :(
do the police ever escort someone to property, when has to collect a bill and has had no success? *just curious, as some folks may fear for their safety and ask for 'back up' and this might help the folks know you are serious... or--oooops, they may have issues with the police and we sure don't want them to start something bad, :(
oh well, just ideas....
but no matter what, you can be serious, but still be a gentleman...
next time, yes, ask for HALF down, first... :)
or even 3/4, if you fear they won't pay...
or, DO HALF the job, then, do the other half when the rest of the pay comes... (oh no, just remembered--you would have to go up the tree again... not too good, then) :(
will be praying... i have had the most wonderful surprises, THOUGH not always right away, about folks paying me for work done, when i thought they'd not pay... i just kept pleading my case with god, though, ...
however, a few asking and reminders, were done, before that, as well...
you were CORRECT to do that...
let us know how this turns out...
edit: ooops, did not know if it would be worth the trouble or not, for
the small claims court... just saw the post, above... :)
wow, if i had the funds, i'd give you a 'lesson learned' bonus-help...
:)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jul 14, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
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Cragman...If i remember correctly , the sheriffs will serve small claims paper work...? This guy on the crew owed someone money and the sheriffs served him...? RJ
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 14, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
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hey there say, cragman...
oh my, well, i just mentioned, it, as, when i had to get something from my house, back when my now-ex was bothering me, i was afraid to go there, so i called the police, and they DID go there and wait for me, to get what i needed...
so, i thought they might go, just to see that no harm came, while someone approached another about a past-due bill... '
well, i tried, :) would not work, i reckon?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 14, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
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hey there say, cragman... oh, no, it was before divorce... i just needed clothes to spend the night somewhere...
:)
anything more, like if i wanted furniture, etc, they could not let me do that...
this was in south texas, though... too...
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Scole
Trad climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 14, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
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Years ago I took a client to Patagonia to climb Fitz-Roy. I got 50% up front for the trip. We were down there about 4 months.
Before getting on Fitz-Roy, I insisted we do a warm up, the Irish Route on Aguja Poincenot. We climbed to the shoulder and bivied, where said client proceeded to drop his mittens, then his pile pants, the stove repair kit, and finally most of the food. With no food, no mittens, and inadequate clothes he wanted to descend, although we were almost to the summit.
A week later we started up Fitz-Roy in fine weather. We climbed to the Brecha de los Italianos, then started up the Franco-Argentine, but again fear got the best of my partner and we retreated in perfect conditions.This scenario, with slight variations, repeated itself several times over the next couple of months until our time was up.
My client, assuming that since he hadn't summited anything after several months, determined that he did not need to pay me for my time. Twenty years later I have still not seen a penny of the remaining balance, and never expect to.
I learned a lot on that trip. From that point on every international trip I guided was cash up front.
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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Jul 14, 2013 - 03:48pm PT
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Attempt one more time being nice and let them know it is the final attempt before DISCONNECTION and LEGAL ACTION...
Small Claims Court $60
Sheriff Fee for serving papers $30
Court Fee to enforce Judgement $60
Sheriff Fee for serving papers $30
IF they have a bank account you MAY be paid if they don't already have legal claims that take precedence over yours (child support or liens)...
I think you disconnect and remove the equipment and sell it to cover your losses...
Collect the FULL fee upfront in the future (anyone who can't afford $200 can't afford to make payments IMO...
STFU anybody who thinks it is their business to be mean about stuff that isn't their business!!
Good luck Norwegian
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Gene
climber
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Jul 14, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
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Weeg,
Was this a handshake deal or do you have something in writing?
g
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Anastasia
climber
Home
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Jul 14, 2013 - 03:55pm PT
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I would show up in person and asked for some arrange payments, or trade. You can have them hauling trash for you to work it off.
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mountainlion
Trad climber
California
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Jul 14, 2013 - 04:12pm PT
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Weeg I just thought of this wich may be a solution...
I contacted the Dept. of Labor in Cali for one of my wife's friends and my wife also (both are nurses who work in family homes--my wife's friend was in the country illegally)...
they were stiffed and not paid wages for taking care of an elderly client...
They filed the claim at the Dept. of Labor (santa ana for Orange County in So Cal)---FREE---a hearing date was set (wich the other party did not show for)--they called them and had them send a check for TWICE the amount owed...the check was sent to the Dept. of Labor and mailed to us by the Dept. of Labor---best part was listening to the Lady on the phone...she was shaking like a leaf when the Labor Commissioner was talking to her...let her know she had been sent a notice to appear and NO she couldn't reschedule but she could come right NOW with the money or she could mail it but that she would be penalized since she didn't show...she agreed to send the check and he informed her it was a crime to lie to him and not to cause herself any additional trouble by not sending the check...
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BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
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Jul 14, 2013 - 04:17pm PT
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If you are a contractor, file a mechanic's lien on them. It shows up on any background check, and they won't be able to work again without paying the lien or going to court over it.
Small cases are usually quite simple, particularly when the person who didn't pay doesn't show up at the hearing.
Small claims court around here is piss easy and doesn't require an attorney most of the time.
A lien will go straight onto their credit rating and put it in the toilet. If they pay, the lien is satisfied and they are released from it.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 14, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
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hey there say, mountainlion.... wow...
thanks for sharing... i will keep this in mind, just in case other folks
every ask...
here's hoping this goes well...
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2013 - 04:34pm PT
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you all just gave me more than 200 dollars
worth of advice.
of course im not going to pay you,
but as gesture of thanks i'll
refrain from striking down
low-quality prose on your climbing forum,
for say, 2 weeks.
i just called the guy again,
and gave me the dance.
i listened, then waited my turn.
after a bit of silence,
i told him i knew that i'd never see the money;
i told him i have two young children pawing at my wallet;
and i asked him how it feels to lay your head upon
that end-of-the-day pillow and realize in your heart
that you amount to nothing?
he didn't respond.
but he didn't hang up.
i just uttered cheers, and let go of that episode.
no sweat.
actually what im sweating today is excess column
surchage upon an under-ground concrete tank,
with only 14" of soil separation.
thanks for your input.
i'll do better with my client management next time
(i've composed an invoice with some basic stipulations
like 1/2 of payment is due before i climb,
and the remaining is due within 30 days, and such.)
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froodish
Social climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 14, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
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From a different field of work, but perhaps still useful (and entertaining!)
http://vimeo.com/22053820
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Jul 14, 2013 - 05:01pm PT
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"should i collect 1/2 before stepping in the tree?"
Yes..
Yes you should. I don't do ANY work without 50% up front these days. Way too many flakes since the recession and it's the fastest way to weed them out. Nice thing about being UN-liscenced.. you can actually do that. No honest person will even blink an eye. Anyone who tries to talk you into no deposit is probably out to stiff you.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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Jul 14, 2013 - 05:10pm PT
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I think that if it has gone this long before you had your first non-payment, that's pretty amazing. But, all business people experience the issue at one point, usually early on, and then develop systems in which to protect themselves best as possible.
I don't know your business, but I would think that when making the appointment, it would be appropriate to quote the price and tell them the payment methods you accept. And then ask "How would you like to make payment?"
If you accept cards - process it that day, before you do the work. Well, so long as you are very reliable and don't do things like not show up when you contracted(not saying you do that).
If it is cash, then you probably do need to wait until finished to collect, just out of the natural way things occur. But the client has been made aware that payment is expected then. MOST will have it ready. MOST people aren't shady. IF you are finding yourself often dealing WITH shady people,it is not "them" that has the problem. There is something within our which draws us to those types.
If they don't have the payment(forgot to go to the bank, etc.) tell them politely, "I can understand how that would happen. What amount can you make?" Accept it, ask about the balance, write a receipt and include "Balance of xxx to be paid xxx."
If it is checks - you may want to consider accepting credit cards instead.
If you send invoice, have a schedule of payment timing and a late fee policy stated on your invoices. And stick to it. When they are late - add the extra charge.
Out of the 10 years I ran my dog walking service, I only had one client not pay part of their amount owed, and looking back, it was quite obvious that I allowed it to happen. Still, I politely sent her invoices that included requests for payment, and NEVER was unprofessional, threatening or any other negative thing. I ended up getting small payments until it seemed the $50 left just wasn't going to happen without my being diligent. At that point, I had invested enough that it wasn't worth persuing, and I let it go.
Never berate, threaten or try to intimidate. You DO want your clients to refer you, right? It ain't going to happen if you give them the shakedown.
After al while, most business people learn to take note of the signs a person is sketchy, and....have in place a system in which you get the money before work begins. Or, they recognize the client isn't "their type of client" and turn down the work. Like I said - MOST people are honest and genuine in their intent. You can build a business on that type of clientele, and disregard ones you feel might be troublesome.
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Magic Ed
Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
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Jul 14, 2013 - 06:39pm PT
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I had one deadbeat pay me after I told him I'd made a doll that looked like him and I was going to start sticking pins in it.
Another time I actually called a dame, disguised my voice and impersonated an attorney who was making a courtesy call before filing a small business claim. Had my check the next day.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Jul 14, 2013 - 06:45pm PT
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Nor, you had an agreement for less than the statutory minimum requiring a license ( in CA). You can sue them quite legally in small claims asap. It usually works.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jul 14, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
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I almost never bill. Ill go to the bank with a client if I have to, I'll drive em there or wait till they dig out a check. I just smile and play nice in person till paid. I also discuss the cost ahead of time and mention that I only take cash or checks and specifically ask is that ok?
Course most of the jobs I do are in the $50 to $300 range and take me anywhere from 30 mintes to half a day. So most folks pay as soon as finished.
I have had a very few bounced checks. Only one of which I never got paid. usually I call them then call a second time then I stop by if it comes to that. After that it's not worth the effort and I figure karma is a bitch and I wouldn't want to be them. Cause that kind of person makes enough trouble for themselves.
Now if it were a 50k job I'd be all over their ass and not real nice about it after a while. Kinda like Cragman.
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