I have lost faith in America (OT)

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climbski2

Mountain climber

Anchorage AK, Reno NV

Jul 14, 2013 - 11:04pm PT

If your company makes a product so crappily that it cannot afford to pay it's workers enough to live decently.. then that company should cease to exist. Because it is working against the public interest. Same as a terrorist or a criminal is working against the public interest.

If your nation is allowing imports from a place that uses a different monetary system (and not making the proper adjustment for the conversion) such that your own indigenous products cannot price themselves competitively then your government is not working for it's people.. they are working for someone else.

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber

joshua tree

Jul 15, 2013 - 12:52am PT

If your nation is allowing imports from a place that uses a different monetary system

Didn't we the people vote for this? What was it called, NAFTA?

I still don't see how if everybody is making atleast fifteen an hr prices wouldn't rise?

Hell if ur right why not raise it to twenty five an hr. then everyone would be middleclass.

Seriously

mountainlion

Trad climber

California

Jul 15, 2013 - 01:11am PT

I agree with climbski2 if your company cannot pay it's fair share of environmental regulations and fair labor costs it shouldn't be allowed to do sell it's product in the countries that do pay those costs...

we shouldn't be trying to go backwards to No regulations for the environment and the workers because of cost...

we should be moving forwards to make sure those costs reflect the true price of doing business...

...the wealthy lifestyle be DAMNED!!!

Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber

I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!

Jul 15, 2013 - 02:34am PT

it all started with the hamburger,

krahmes

Social climber

Stumptown

Jul 15, 2013 - 02:41am PT

Keep on keeping on Blue. I don't think I agree with you much, but I'm glad you fight the fight because I agree with the other side of the coin even less, though I started out 35 years ago firmly in that camp. I don't know what the answer is, but I still find some comfort in these words:

Shine, Republic

The quality of these trees, green height; of the sky,
shining, of water, a clear flow; of rock hardness
And reticence: each is noble in its quality. The love of
freedom has been the quality of Western man.

There is a stubborn torch that flames from Marathon to
Concord, its dangerous beauty binding three ages
Into one time: the waves of barbarism and civilization
have eclipsed but have never quenched it.

For the Greeks the love of beauty, for Rome of ruling;
for the present age the passionate love of discovery;
But in one noble passion we are one; and Washington,
Luther, Tacitus, Aeschylus, one kind of man.

And you, America, that passion made you. You were
not born to prosperity, you were born to love freedom.
You did not say” en masse,” you said “independence.”
But we cannot have all the luxuries and freedom also.

Freedom is poor and laborious; that torch is not safe but
hungry, and often requires blood for its fuel.
You will tame it against it burn too clearly, you will hood
it like a kept hawk, you will perch it on the wrist of Caesar.

But keep the traditions, conserve the forms, the observances,
keep the spot sore. Be great carve deep your heel-marks.
The states of the next age will no doubt remember you,
and edge their love of freedom with contempt of luxury.

Robinson Jeffers (1934)

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jul 15, 2013 - 07:47am PT

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 15, 2013 - 09:23am PT

Nice Philo!

dirtbag

climber

Jul 15, 2013 - 09:37am PT

Nah, it's more fun to bash the poor and blame them for our woes.

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber

joshua tree

Jul 15, 2013 - 11:58am PT

Zimmerman found not guilty.
After some 20+ days of court testimonys jurors find him not guilty.
After hearing this verdict people are outraged and take to the streets
All over the US. Blocking traffic causing police to shut down hyways and streets.
Toting signs with the combined sentiment of NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE!
But wasn't the justice process properly followed? Does the justice system
carry prejudice? What say you?

I wish some African-Americans would chime in..

philo

Trad climber

Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?

Jul 15, 2013 - 12:06pm PT

With Racial Roles Reversed, Three Self-Defense Cases That Went The Other Way

By Annie-Rose Strasser on Jul 15, 2013 at 9:50 am

George Zimmerman was acquitted in the murder of Trayvon Martin over the weekend, successfully using a claim of self-defense to convince six jurors that he was right to shoot and kill the 17-year-old Martin. The case centered around the question of whether Martin was physically aggressive toward Zimmerman in any way — the defense claimed that the teenager bashed Zimmerman’s head into the concrete — or if Martin was simply a victim. Ultimately, the jury decided, the prosecutors could not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin didn’t engage Zimmerman in a fight, prompting him to use deadly force in self-defense.
Self-defense cases are fairly common in the American justice system. And while in Zimmerman’s case, many feel that justice was left undone for the shooting victim — and that the boy’s race, black, and the man’s, white hispanic, were a deciding factor — the roles are often reversed; there have been notable cases in recent years where what seem to be reasonable self-defense claims by black defendants are dismissed by a jury:

Marissa Alexander:
In the middle of a domestic violence incident, believing that her husband was threatening her, Marissa Alexander fired a warning shot into the wall to ward him off. In court, Alexander tried to use a claim of self defense — specifically, Stand Your Ground, the same law that let Zimmerman walk free on the night he shot Martin before later being arrested. As ThinkProgress’s Nicole Flatow previously pointed out, “Alexander would not have needed a Stand Your Ground law to defend her action. While that law goes so far as to authorize unfettered deadly force in self-defense without a duty to retreat, Alexander used significantly lesser force that would fall under a typical self-defense claim.” Ultimately, though, it didn’t matter; her defense wasn’t as successful. Alexander, who had no prior record, was sentenced to 20 years in jail — a mandatory minimum for the crime.

John McNeil:
On one fateful night in December of 2005, a black businessman named John McNeil got a call from his son that someone was “lurking” around the backyard. That person turned out to be white 19-year old Brian Epp, a hired contractor for McNeil who had past disagreements with McNeil’s son. When McNeil got home, he told Epp, who was weilding a box cutter, to leave the property several times. After Epp repeatedly refused, McNeil fired a warning shot, which caused Epp to run. As witnesses attest, McNeil then shot Epp in self-defense, killing him. A court rejected McNeil’s self-defense claim, sentencing him to life in prison — but McNeil was lucky; his case drew a ton of media attention, and with it, calls from powerful politicians and the NAACP to reconsider the case. After six years in jail, McNeil’s charge was reduced to manslaughter and he was let free — with many caveats: He must serve out 13 years of probation, during which time he cannot leave the state of North Carolina, and he must pay $75 a month as part of his probation. Unlike Zimmerman, he will be forced to carry the charge permanently on his criminal record. And more than anything else, McNeil can’t get those lost years back; while he was sitting in prison, his mother and wife died.

John White:
The case of John White is similar to the Trayvon Martin/ George Zimmerman story, but with racial roles reversed. In 2006, black 54-year-old John White shot dead white 17-year-old Daniel Cicciaro after an altercation at White’s home. White reported that Cicciaro and several other white teens showed up at his door looking to beat up his son. White greeted the group of boys at his driveway, holding a pistol. He reported that Ciccairo “lunged” for the gun, and it accidentally discharged, striking the teenager. When the case went to trial, White characterized the group of white teenagers as a “lynch mob” and insisted he was only trying to defend his family. The jury — made up of 12 people, 11 white and one black — found him guilty of manslaughter. He served just five months in jail before his sentence was commuted by then-New York Gov. David Paterson (D).
Tags: George ZimmermanRaceTrayvon Martin

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/07/15/2297541/self-defense-zimmerman/

dirtbag

climber

Jul 15, 2013 - 12:34pm PT

Does the justice system carry prejudice?

Are you really that naive?

Dr. Christ

Mountain climber

State of Mine

Jul 15, 2013 - 12:42pm PT

But wasn't the justice process properly followed?

Since when do 6 women represent a fair cross-section of the population?

BLUEBLOCR

Social climber

joshua tree

Jul 15, 2013 - 12:54pm PT

Good philo
Seems like with the case of John White, and the other cases. The system that's in place
is good! It's the people that don't have faith in the system that blur the lines..