I have lost faith in America (OT)


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Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2013 - 12:35am PT
John, in a school like that I guarantee good outcomes!

As for Vicor, he is a sage. In history. Sowell in philosophy. You should apply to Hoover in Economics. You'd fit right in.

Victor is a master editorialist. You operate on the same level.

Cheers, John!

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 12, 2013 - 01:18am PT
^^^ rsin, that was a really insightful post. except that last line?

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 12, 2013 - 01:26am PT
rsin, i think ur werk here could be described as a job..
but im not sure what ur retirement would be?

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
Jul 12, 2013 - 01:33am PT
Bluering, ya whiner, quit your belly-aching. Turning my stomach, ya wingnut.

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 12, 2013 - 01:40am PT

two sides are stacked up trying to toppel an idol

that's the oldest storyline go'in

go back to tell'in me somp'in i don't know

Jul 12, 2013 - 01:43am PT
One who loses faith in America is a traitor to the whole planet, universe and to ones own self .......

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 12, 2013 - 02:01am PT

Billionaire Koch Brother Claims Eliminating Minimum Wage Would Help the Poor

yea and hes got bill moyers greet'in the crowds. Oh how money blurrs the vision.

and talk'in about vision. what's with the big titted ads next to our text? We can't show'em, but they can?

can i say; i have faith in irony?

charlie rose for president! think about it....
Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Jul 12, 2013 - 04:48am PT
I simply believe Christianity is gentleness

Whoa Craggy, no offense, but have you looked at history?

The Crusades? The Christian crusaders were at least as vicious as the Muslims. The Christian crusaders would slaughter at will.

According to historians, Saladin, when taking over the Levant, said to let people live their own religion.

From Wikipedia:

His reportedly noble and chivalrous behavior was noted by Christian chroniclers, and despite being the nemesis of the Crusaders, he won the respect of many of them, including Richard the Lionheart who led the Third Crusade; rather than becoming a hated figure in Europe, Saladin became a celebrated example of the principles of chivalry.

The Inquisition? A blot on the Vatican at the time.


Organized religion (Christian, Islam, Judaism etc) is there for one purpose, to serve the leaders. IMO.

True humanity is gentleness, with or without religion. But IMO religion gives people an excuse, I suppose without religion humankind would find another excuse to persecute others, to take over lands, to take over riches.

Religion can also be beneficial, giving people hope. I had an aunt in Seattle that prayed so much, her cancer went into remission for years. But that is the power of the mind. To cling onto something, a belief.

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 12, 2013 - 10:39am PT
reminds me of Steve Martin's "Atheists Don't Have No Songs" (". . . the 'he' is always lower case. . .").

Steve Martin needs to expand his horizons.

Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
Jul 12, 2013 - 10:43am PT
As for Victor, he is a sage.

OK, that's the funniest thing I've read on this thread. VD read Frank Norris' The Octopus and came to the conclusion that Norris was sympathetic to the railroads. LOL!

He's either a dimwitted moron or a prostitute. No insult meant to prostitutes.

Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
Jul 12, 2013 - 11:16am PT
Christian Gentleness.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#310593

That's cool Blue you keep bending over you'll eventually get it.

photo not found
Missing photo ID#310594


Trad climber
June Lake, California....via the Damascus Road
Jul 12, 2013 - 11:27am PT
Like any other ideology, there have been lots of awful things done under the banner of Christianity. Man's fault...not God's.

And again, my Christian values are exactly that...MINE...based on the way I interpret God's love for all of us. It is HIS heart that teaches me that...

LOVE...never fails.

It doesn't bother me if others do not embrace these things....however, I find it sad when others ridicule me for these things, which mean so much to me.

Social climber
Joshua Tree
Jul 12, 2013 - 11:33am PT

Finally something we can agree upon, I too experience great joy when I cometh.
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
Jul 12, 2013 - 11:44am PT
You can blame the downward spiral directly on Conservatives, and the Conservative Supreme Court.

Bush vs. Gore: the initial coup
Citizens United: the sell off of America to the Fascists
Killing the Voting Act: rigging the system for the final takeover

Does anyone think that voting in More Republicans will fix our race to the Bottom, especially now with the Tea Baggar faction with Ted Cruz as the new golden boy. They are going full steam backwards.

I don't care what you think of Obama, but he is in a war against these people, and they are winning.

The Only way is to vote in More Liberals that will do Congressional action against these damaging policies.

And a More Liberal Congress will also steer the President back to reality.
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
Jul 12, 2013 - 11:45am PT
I have all those same things without a imaginary friend.

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Jul 12, 2013 - 11:48am PT
And many Americans have that imaginary friend sans the values.

Jul 12, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
There's no imaginary friends except the ones one makes up.

All my friends I've met and are real.

What kind of bullsh!t are you guys projecting and making up again now?


Trad climber
Lander, WY
Jul 12, 2013 - 12:06pm PT
I subscribe to this quote form a letter of George Kennan from 1984:

"One's relations with one's country, like the relations amoung intimates, are always complicated; but I conceive myself to have loved my own...I am now inclined to see my country much the way that I see Russia (in the historical sense): namely, as a politically unsuccessful and tragic country, but one capable of producing out of its midst, from time to time, remarkable literary, artistic, and musical intelligence, politically helpless and always vulnerable to abuse and harassment at the hands of the dominant forces of the moment."
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jul 12, 2013 - 12:09pm PT

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 12, 2013 - 12:13pm PT
Dean's "imaginary friend" is OK with me. So is Dean. Even though I don't have one. He's got as much right to his beliefs as I do to mine. Even though atheism is the only true belief (irony/sarcasm/self mockery intended)

You can blame the downward spiral directly on Conservatives, and the Conservative Supreme Court.
Let's go back a little further to Reaganism when the Religious Right was allowed and enabled to start inserting Their Christian Religion into American politics and governance. In direct violation of the 1st Amendment. (We've had this debate before. Some time ago on the atheists (or was it the Christian) thread I debunked the claims that Jefferson meant the 1st Amendment to be interpreted liberally.)

The 1st Amendment came about precisely because the Colonies and the first united states contained all religions, including significant numbers of Jews, and other non-Christian religions. They had seen and were watching the divisiveness in Europe over religion. Protestant England vs Catholic France/Italy for just one example. Many of their forefathers had come here precisely to escape religious persecution. In their wisdom they decided the Constitution should have a guarantee of religious freedom and the only real way to enforce that was to Keep ALL Religion out of government.

In God We Trust only became our "motto" when Eisenhower was pushed there by the anti-Communism (atheist Communists) sentiment whipped up by Joe McCarthy.
"In God we trust" was adopted as the official motto of the United States in 1956 as an alternative or replacement to the unofficial motto of E pluribus unum, adopted when the Great Seal of the United States was created and adopted in 1782.
So please tell me, in WHOSE God do we trust? This is precisely the problem.

Remember E pluribus unum? From many comes one. Including religious/non religious.
We have strayed from that basic understanding and it will take us some time to get back. I do believe this country is intelligent and diverse enough to find it's way again. Perhaps not in my lifetime.

So hang in there bluey, we are all being tested.

quotes from Wikipedia
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