Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 40 of total 40 in this topic |
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
Right now, we are in pretty deep doo-doo with this fire.
The fire split, with the southern fork now breaching into the valley west of Red Rock last night - we could see active flames from our place in the Southwest.
The northern fork has breached over the ridge between Griffith and Charleston peaks...an area full of awesome high mountain meadows and 2000 year old Bristlecone pines. Really bummed about that.
The fire index is off the charts due to the record high temps, so the fire isn't even laying down at night that much. Added to that, it's in a wilderness area, so no dozers, trucks, or even chainsaws. Right now it's hard to say if it's going to go into Lee canyon, Kyle canyon, or both.
And all the big bombers are tasked in AZ and so far there hasn't been any news of one getting released, so we have a couple helos and a SEAT for aerial.
On top of all that, the plumes and smoke are driving me nuts, like an old war horse :-| I thought I was over the "I wanna go kill it" phase of my life.
Guess not.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Added to that, it's in a wilderness area, so no dozers, trucks, or even chainsaws.
I hope you are wrong about that. Fighting fires is specifically exempted by the Wilderness Act. If managers are taking the position of not allowing the above,they should be fired, right now!
PROHIBITION OF CERTAIN USES
(c) Except as specifically provided for in this Act, and subject to existing private rights, there shall be no commercial enterprise and no permanent road within any wilderness area designated by this Act and, except as necessary to meet minimum requirements for the administration of the area for the purpose of this Act (including measures required in emergencies involving the health and safety of persons within the area), there shall be no temporary road, no use of motor vehicles, motorized equipment or motorboats, no landing of aircraft, no other form of mechanical transport, and no structure or installation within any such area.
SPECIAL PROVISIONS
(d) The following special provisions are hereby made:
(1) Within wilderness areas designated by this Act the use of aircraft or motorboats, where these uses have already become established, may be permitted to continue subject to such restrictions as the Secretary of Agriculture deems desirable. In addition, such measures may be taken as may be necessary in the control of fire, insects, and diseases, subject to such conditions as the Secretary deems desirable.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
Yeah Riley, they are super tough. You don't get to be 2k years old without getting hit by lightning or fire a time or 20, haha.
It's going to take forever for the meadows to regenerate though, and in most cases all that comes back is fire weed to fuel the next one even more. We were supposed to do a training hike to Griffith on Sunday but that's not going to happen for sure. Once this burns out I will get up there and take some photos.
Ken, thanks for adding that. My information is a bit outdated, and comes from when I was a wildland smoke eater 12 years ago. Looks like things have changed.
That being said, even if they could use saws, the fire is now on an extremely steep hill side in heavy timber with a ton of ladder fuels. I think it would be pretty dangerous to even attempt a line up there.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
The "10&18" should always apply, eh?
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
Hey WML,
Right now I don't have a link for you, sorry. My info is coming from a Red Cross IC that I know personally, and my personal knowledge of the area.
Right now the SAR team I am on is on standby, we may end up going to the mountain in some form of a support capacity.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
Nope, Red Rock SAR.
|
|
bmacd
Trad climber
100% Canadian
|
|
Horrible news, such a beautiful area. Is it into the town site up there or just up high on ridge line. I was up there several times last year. Those bristlecones are amazing on the ridge between Charlston and Griffiths.
All those homes in that valley... Omg
|
|
Deekaid
climber
|
|
Any news on the cause? The Bristlecone Pine Forest of the White Mountains was the site of one of several of what I consider supernatural experiences in my life. A pretty powerful place.
|
|
Deekaid
climber
|
|
Nice briefing, thanks.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Here's the direct link to the USFS fire page for this fire.
http://www.inciweb.org/incident/3481/
Current status (12:20 today)
Basic Information
Incident Type Wildfire
Cause Lightning
Date of Origin Monday July 01st, 2013 approx. 12:00 PM
Location Fire location is one mile from Kyle Canyon
Incident Commander Marty Adell
Current Situation
Total Personnel 422
Size 10,935 acres
Fuels Involved
Pinyon Juniper
__Fire Behavior
Extreme fire behavior, long duration crown runs, spotting and rapid rate of spread.__
Significant Events
Fire continues to exhibit extreme behavior. Current command: Great Basin IMT 7 Type II Team (Marty Adell). Future command: Rich Harvey's Type I Team.
Outlook
Planned Actions
Trout Canyon community: access with escort. Kyle & Lee Canyons: Access with escort, residents only.
__Growth Potential
High
Terrain Difficulty
Extreme__
underlines are mine.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
Drove out to look at the east side and south side of the fire today. Still very active but they now have 4 breaks in place to quarter the fire. The incident will go to Type 1 tomorrow.
4 heavy helos, 3 heavy tankers and a VLAT (DC-10) are now on the fire. Buddy of mine shared some video of a close in VLAT drop today that was pretty awesome, haven't figure out how to get it off FB or I would post it here.
The terrain continues to be a major obstacle, and the fire has been making crown runs in Kyle Canyon with small spot fires hitting the Rainbow housing division last night. The crews managed to deal with those.
Right now the concern is that the fire may break over into lower Kyle Canyon in the next 24 hours. If that happens I'm not sure what they will do - the fire is already burning down into Kyle from the top, and there is only one road in and out of there.
Slightly lower temps and lower winds seem to be helping the fire return to normal behavior - when I saw the south face tonight it was laying down. Hoping for the best.
Edit to add, I could have just clicked the link lol. My info was taken from friends on scene and personal observations.
If I still had my card, I could be up there right now. Won't happen again, going to get it back next year.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
That Bison smoke cloud... it's burning good!
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
Bison doubled in size. Now at 17,000+ and still only 15% contained.
Good thing those NV fires are only a one day affair.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
heres a wierd one,, our surface winds here at moundhouse are from the west 20 mph or so right now,, but the colum from the bison fire now bends to the west all the way into N tahoe area.. strange..winds aloft are heading west..?
It is called "coupled fire atmosphere dynamics." It is affected by increased air temperature, which leads to drier fuels, which leads to higher temperatures when it burns... regardless of what you say or believe.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
Glad you are stuffing animals Ron. Keep up the good work.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
Hmmm, NEVER experienced a fire of this magnitude? I wonder what could be going on... other than climate change, because we all know that is a hoax... and air temperature has ZERO effect on fire behavior.
Pretty sure they have been doing fuels treatments out there within the last decade, and I assume NV is a bit more aggressive with their fuels treatments than the Lake Tahoe Basin.
So if it isn't climate change, I guess it must just be bad luck. Oh well, can't do anything about that.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
"fuels management" in the Pine nuts ROFLMAO!
Apparently being flat out Rong makes you ROFLMAO. That's awesome, because you are Rong more than anyone else, so you must be having a ton of fun.
Several fuels treatment projects going on in the Pine Nuts over the last decade.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
Sorry WML, I just can't stand it when people spread misinformation... over and over and over and over... without correcting them.
I also think it is important for people to know what land managers are actually doing to reduce wildland fuels, like fuels treatments in the Pine Nuts. Too many idiots complain when they see trees cut down (like along Emerald Bay Rd), when in fact it helps the forest and protects humans if done correctly.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
Ron, it isn't my fault you are always wrong. Why do you get so up tight when you are wrong? I thought it made you laugh?
I don't really pray, but FWIW I also hope I never meet you.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
I'm hoping this thread gets back on topic, which is the Carpenter One fire in Las Vegas. If you want to talk about the Bison fire, or keep up with your Intardnet love fest, start another thread please?
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
Great Vegasclimber... way to keep it on topic... offering exactly no new information...
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
Go smoke a bowl, Wes.
I'm the nicest person on ST, so it's ok if I tell you to chill out and let this thread get back on topic.
|
|
climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
|
|
So
How bout them Mets?
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
Happy to add new info if you like, "Dr."
Right now the fire is sitting at just under 20,000 acres, making it the largest wildfire in Southern Nevada history (as far as they have been keeping records at any rate.)
The fire is continuing to advance and is within 1/4 mile of the Kyle Canyon "Rainbow" housing subdivision, but is being held at that point thanks to several back burns and aerial attack. Spot and crown fires are continuing to be an issue.
The active, eastern edge of the fire has moved into several lower-fuel areas which is providing the divisions with opportunities to get a handle on it. Here is a map of the burn area for you. That good enough?
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
And still only 15% contained. 100+ temps. Brutal!
(also, nice post deletes.)
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
|
Morning update for Carpenter One.
Yesterday, the fire jumped the Kyle Canyon Road, and one commercial structure was reported as destroyed. From what I can tell on the map, the only 2 structures in that area were the police substation and a horse corral. Information this morning has put the total number of burned structures at 6, in the Prospect Ranch area. The fire, combined with down canyon winds, made a fast eastern push last night that increased the size to over 25,000 acres.
It's hard to tell what the situation is at the moment, as the news reports are spotty and often inaccurate as usual. Prospect Ranch is at the extreme east end of the Charleston arm of the fire, and I would think it much more likely that it was Harris Springs Ranch that burned, as it was pretty much surrounded last night. Time will tell.
Winds shifted overnight from SE to NE, which has brought super heavy smoke and ash into the valley. This may help the Rainbow housing area, but hurt the southern arm of the fire, which is burning close to the highway that connect Vegas and Pahrump.
They haven't been updating the Inciweb site that well, but the IC team is holding a news conference tonight and we should get more information then.
|
|
phylp
Trad climber
Millbrae, CA
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
|
Thanks for the update, Vegasclimber.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
|
I fought a fire in Utah back in 1994 when temperatures reached 102F. Crews from back east were brought in to help. Turns out most of them had never been 1000 feet above sea level... the fire was at 6500+ feet. They were used to humidity... there was none. The IC had a hell of a time trying to figure out what to do with them.
With 1000+ people, 25,000+ acres, and 100+F temps, keeping the rest of us informed is not their top priority.
I hiked that area pretty extensively when I lived down there with an injured finger. It is brutal.
Those folks are well south of the seventh ring of hell.
(According to inciweb, Bison is now bigger... but obviously that could be due to the ability to update the information.)
|
|
the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2013 - 06:34pm PT
|
Google the "geomac viewer" which shows fire perimeters. It's a neat tool if you're into fires. Sorry no link, maybe someone can post it.
|
|
Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
|
|
|
Jul 10, 2013 - 07:05pm PT
|
I usually avoid anything with MAC in the title (no offense to CMac), but the GeoMAC viewer is cool. Way nicer to see the satellite imagery as the backdrop.
Looks like Carpenter I hasn't yet hit the name brand Charleston spurt crags... has it?
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2013 - 12:09am PT
|
Most of the primary sport areas are up Trail Canyon, which is a mile or two north of the fire line on the other side of the housing developments. The other main area is Robbers Roost which is a lot further away.
Unfortunately the fire is running along the top ridges near Mt Wilson...if the wind pushes from the west it does have a chance of getting into the Red Rock canyon system. I could see live flames on the ridge line tonight.
Trying to wrangle myself into a volunteer position this weekend, so I am hoping to be able to get some info from the IC crew. I fought a fire in Trout Canyon in 2000? I think, that they really thought was going to do what this one did.. Just got a lucky break on the winds for 2 days and got a decent line in.
|
|
crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2013 - 01:12pm PT
|
Is that Calico Basin in the foreground?
Wow...what a shame.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
|
Yeah, I was afraid that was going to happen. No access back in there either. Dammit.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
|
AS of last night, all the trail closures were the ones that start on Charleston anyways, it's a bit on non news. Bristlecone Trail, Griffith Peak, North and South Loop and Cathedral trails are closed. But you can't access the trail heads anyways.
The trail into (edited)Lovell Canyon has been destroyed, and it was only a few years old. Awesome hike in through pinyon and oak, to a wide meadow and springs. The news is already playing the "It will never recover" line.
Unfortunately that might just be the case. I seriously doubt they will do much rehab or replanting, based on what I have seen on other desert fires in the past. I hope I'm wrong.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Jul 11, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
|
Ugh! Report I got recently was they had opened the loop, but the trails are closed. Either way, this sucks.
The rain and the lower temps and the humidity are causing the fire to lay down a bit, give em hell boys and gals! They should be able to make some serious inroads today if the winds stay down, and we get more rain and not much lightning.
Here is the latest map release from the incident:
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2013 - 12:27am PT
|
Light to heavy rain, overcast conditions and high humidity gave the crews today a much needed chance to attack the fire directly, resulting in a containment jump to 43%. Mop up operations have begun in some areas of the fire. The main heat source concern is in the far eastern edge of the fire along Kyle Canyon Road.
I attended a public meeting with the IC team tonight, and they said that one of the primary points right now is getting in to the eastern edge of the fire that is west of Red Rock Canyon. They have about 6 miles of line to cut in heavy timbered, high fuel areas. If the weather holds for another few days as the met report says it will, there is a very good chance they will be able to create that line. A helipad is being created to allow them to lift teams into this area to begin work, hopefully tomorrow.
|
|
redrocker
climber
NV
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2013 - 02:22pm PT
|
Vegasclimber wrote:
The trail into Fletcher Canyon has been destroyed, and it was only a few years old. Awesome hike in through pinyon and oak, to a wide meadow and springs. The news is already playing the "It will never recover" line.
Hey VC,
The only Fletcher Canyon/Fletcher Trail I'm aware of is on the north side of SR-157 at least a couple miles west of where I understand the fire jumped the road.
I can't find any info reporting fire reaching Fletcher.
|
|
Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
|
|
|
Jul 12, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
|
Hi Red,
The hiking trail that I am referring to is one that is North of the highway that goes to Pahrump. Perhaps I have the name wrong. I will see if I can find the burn map that showed that area again, it showed that the fire had burned up to the edge of the ranch that is out there.
Edit to add, I did indeed have the wrong name, I meant Lovell Canyon. Original post has been edited for clarity.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 40 of total 40 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!