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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Thanks RGold. This is the scenario I envisioned, but couldn't find a pic. Any manufacturer using 'keeper' methods that allow easy biner attachment to the rubber only should change their design.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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To his family and friends
From halfway around the world please know we too were inspired and are grieving with you.
Perhaps he passed the test that life sometimes seems and was called home early.
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snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
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that is a crap design
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
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True enough Aspendougy. True True True.
I lost a climbing partner and friend, young Pat Savageau (fr Ann Arbor & Santa Cruz, age 21?) back about 12 years ago. Terrifically bright and talented in many ways.
With other people, not me, he was doing a climb in the Needles here in CA and got to the anchors. I think it was On Thin Ice. He then lowered off only to find he hadn't even finished tying in at the start. So So sad.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
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RIP young Tito.
And for all those saying "no no no, we can't talk about the accident itself" those who knew him way better than us already are:
Eric Hörst
We've been off the grid climbing in Ten Sleep Canyon, WY for a couple days and we just heard the horrible news of Tito's passing. For my non-climbing friends in Lancaster, Tito was in many ways Cameron's Italian counterpart as their climbing achievements have paralleled each other the past 3 years. Sadly, this accident was totally avoidable--a tragic equipment screw up & failure. RIP Tito. http://climbing.about.com/b/2013/07/06/italian-climbing-child-prodigy-dies-in-french-accident.htm
Robyn Erbesfield-Raboutou
Buddy check every time kiddos including your gear! RIP Tito Traversa. So sad and totally avoidable.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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I've again updated my post on possible ways this tragic failure could have happened, this time with a video demonstration someone posted. See http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2175804&msg=2176075#msg2176075.
It seems far better to have all this information in one place rather then spread throughout the thread in different posts. My apologies to anyone who commented on the original post and whose comments now seem out of whack with the current material.
I might add that although the information is speculative, it represents things that could really go wrong, whether or not they were the exact things that actually did go wrong in Tito's tragedy. For this reason I consider it valuable to disseminate.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say all... oh my, i am way to late to everything, these last days...
my condolences and prayers to the family and loved ones...
this is so very very sad, :(
very sad to hear this...
prayers to all that were involved, :(
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SeanYang
Mountain climber
Portland, Oregon
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It is a very sad to learn Tito's passing. This however is not the first time this type of rubber keepers has been involved in a climbing death. In June 2010 at New River Gorge, a female climber fell from an anchor because Both biners on her personal anchor system were accidentally clipped off the slings. The rubber keepers actually kept the biners on until she leaned back (to be lowered?) and the biners and rubbers were torn off the slings.
This can happen (though with low probability) if BOTH biners are accidentally clipped off the sling -- as if one is to remove a biner from a sling, leaving only the rubber holding the biner and sling together.
Sean
http://www.rockclimbing.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2348797;search_string=petzel%20rubber%20accident;#2348797
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SeaClimb
climber
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As a father of several kids who climb at astronomic levels, we became aware of the accident last week and knew it wasn't going to end well. Our situation was somewhat sobering. We were at the US Youth Nationals and here we were watching some of America's best youth climbing their young hearts out.
When we learned of Tito's passing, it staggered my 13 year old son. He broke down, crying, devastated, destroyed for the day. It brought myself, my wife and many parents there to their knees. Here we were, in this situation, watching these youth (some are our own childrent)crushing and so full of life and passion.
We have friends overseas right now who are native French speakers and the scenario described in the local French newspapers is the closest to the situation shown in the video. We traded text after text and i kept insisting it couldn't be this way. I was thinking it was the alpine draw issue/trapped biner with strands clipped/daisy pocket tearout problem. In fact Petzl warns of this issue on their site. They kept saying no...its even dumber/simpler than that. RandI has a decent writeup of what may have happened.
We conversed with other parents ALOT. None of them grasped what was being explained. This video shows this possibility. While not confirmed that this is actually what happened it is plausible.
I MADE THIS VIDEO with my wife to explain what was possible to do after my sons finished climbing for the day. We tried several different makes and only this style could actually hold enough weight to withstand rope drag and clipping, hanging, etc. It surprisingly held 10-15 pounds or so. The dogbone had to be inserted just so for it to do this.
I am so devastated by this. As i type this, i am preparing to leave for France this morning with my own boy.
Peace to everyone involved. It will be hard to find and reconcile. Hopefully the ultimate sacrifice that Tito unwittingly made will serve as a warning to triple check everything everytime all the time. Perhaps the point of his life crushing 5.14's at such a young age was to raise his visibility? Struggling to find some type of meaning in what is so utterly devastating and terrible and meaningless....
Rudy
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Rudy. hopefully this tradgedy will raise awareness that regardless of the grade number that kids climb they are still kids.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Those long rubber retainers, like the one in SeaClimb's video, seem like the most likely scenario. Still, there have been accidents using the Petzl device with the rubber string keeper.
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Why stop at helmets? Helmets are a start, but a helmet wouldn't have saved this kid.
I was thinking more along the lines of.. making pre-inspection of all personal gear (harness/rope/draws) mandatory prior to any formal competition. I'm surprised liability issues don't mandate it already.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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A crude translation:
The risks, as in all sports, are there. Falling in free climbing is expected. At most, though, you can break an ankle. You can not and you should not die.
I wonder where the father got this concept of climbing, that it's safe and someone must be to blame for the accident. The sense of security in sport climbing may be a little dangerous in itself.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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For once, I agree with you, Ron.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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This helmet talk is ridiculus.
Two things had to go wrong for Tito to die. One, he didn't recognize an error. Two, a qualified adult was not supervising the climbing.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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This is a translation from the climbing school's home page.
The causes and unfortunately we know why so much atrocity has condensed into an error so trivial and so devious as to deceive even the most experienced climber
I'd have to disagree.
Tito is gone. Certainly not us to communicate it to the world. The news crowd the columns of all the newspapers: the front page, on the local news in the sports pages. Even the journalists know sdoganare dismay at such a loss that goes far beyond the loss of a life. Tito's death also brings with it the bitter taste of defeat and betrayal of who we love the most. How can climb in the second millennium kill a child? The causes and unfortunately we know why so much atrocity has condensed into an error so trivial and so devious as to deceive even the most experienced climber. This episode will be for the whole movement scalatorio a huge setback. Tito will forever be a symbol of high hazard and risk of our sport, forgetting what this child had accounted for all. Tito was life, new hope. Tito was the seed that just climbing in young people was the sap and oxygen throughout the movement, and we hope you can still find it.
Many mass media these days are turning into poison Tito. It has unleashed a ruthless hunt for the culprit who is looking for a new victim, forcing us to never forget that if you can identify a culprit, this is already a victim of the events of July 2. If the priority is to cry a sample in less, if the imperative is to look for the culprit to give explanation to the tragedy of Titus and his parents, let us remember that for all those who remain this episode will be a wound that will never stop bleeding.
A painful thought we want to turn to parents, private forever of their oxygen, which can possibly find in the lives of other people, in which the bodies of Titus will return hope.
A thought also address present at the time of the accident sunk in the dark and all of us, emotionally involved in this affair, that we look stunned, unable to find words. We will come back to climb for a period we pay more attention to our material and perhaps justice will give us an answer, but would like this to come later.
The urgency is to lock ourselves in a painful silence that can accompany the peace that only Tito has found.
Hello, little Titus.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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From Morgan's link:
(google translation) Improper installation of slings used by Tito Traversa
The rubber retainer:
Incorrectly assembled:
Correctly assembled:
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