Tito Traversa, 12, Fighting For His Life

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Messages 101 - 120 of total 208 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2013 - 01:15pm PT
JL wrote: Attempts to eliminate all risk from climbing is logical but also a move in removing all adventure and seriousness from the sport. It's a very tricky business, and another reminder that attempts to reduce climbing to merely physical movement is probably impossible so long as Old Man Gravity is out there.



I agree for a adult making his own choices...for a 12 year old in a group setting, every piece of gear, harness and rope should be checked by a qualified adult.

Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2013 - 01:18pm PT
Rgold wrote: I truly believe we need to find constructive ways to put fear back into the climbing experience. It isn't a tennis match.

Isn't that a choice a person should make and not a community of climbers?


There are thousands of routes with a high pucker factor still waiting to be done.


This was 12 year old kid out with a group of other kids and adults. The adults f*#k-up. Period.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Jul 9, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
Rgold wrote: I truly believe we need to find constructive ways to put fear back into the climbing experience. It isn't a tennis match.

Isn't that a choice a person should make and not a community of climbers?

In principle, yes. But "the community," whatever that is, can try to make sure people realize what the choices really are. I'm not at all sure everyone involved fully realizes the choices they are making, and the standard disclaimers, "climbing is dangerous..." seem to have little or no effect.

There are thousands of routes with a high pucker factor still waiting to be done.

Sure, but I don't see what that has to do with the issues at hand. The problems we are speaking of are the ones that occur when no "pucker factor" is apparent.

This was 12 year old kid out with a group of other kids and adults. The adults f*#k-up. Period.

But, if true, why exactly did the adults f*#k up? Contemplating this brings you right back to my comments.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2013 - 01:26pm PT
Richard...5.11/5.12 r/x is pretty easy to figure out, at least to me it is. The adults in the group blew it a child lost his life. Really sad.

Maybe see you in October for the reunion.


Richard wrote: But, if true, why exactly did the adults f*#k up? Contemplating this brings you right back to my comments.

Checking the equipment/quickdraws.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
Jul 9, 2013 - 01:30pm PT
Looking forward to that Bob. Be well.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2013 - 01:34pm PT
I'm doing great Richard...looking forward to seeing everyone. Hope you doing well too?
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 9, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
When I took the driver's ed. course in high school, I had a total nutcase for a teacher. All he did was scare us. The whole curriculum was about the different ways to die in a car. I thought it was a waste of time since all that stuff should be obvious. Well, I was only 16.

When I learned rock climbing I had no one to teach me and there was no gym or even a real climbing area nearby. I found a book, Learning to Rock Climb, by Michael Laughman, starring this really burly looking lady who posed for the pictures. Then I got piece of goldline, maybe 5 biners and started drafting my friends as belayers. I had no clue at all but I was aware of that and of the responsibility I was taking on. As time went on, it seemed I was always doing the leading and climbing with people who had less experience. Pushing your limits as a trad leader is a very conservative way to learn, and served me well.

Now you can just take a lesson at a gym, plug into a gri gri, and go for it. The beginners today start in a different place and learn totally different things. Plus the social scene is like a party, instead of gathering up the courage to do an onsight lead, that's scary.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
Don wrote: Now you can just take a lesson at a gym, plug into a gri gri, and go for it. The beginners today start in a different place and learn totally different things. Plus the social scene is like a party, instead of gathering up the courage to do an onsight lead, that's scary.


This kid was 12 years old...with adults in the party. Comparing the way you learned and "your courage" has nothing to do with this situation.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:19pm PT
The kid was warming up. 8 of 12 Draws failed. Courage? You're a tw#t.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:21pm PT
Sorry, did not mean to offend anyone. My point was only that there is a more serious attitude toward trad climbing than sport. Peace.
michaeld

Sport climber
Sacramento
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:29pm PT
Credit: michaeld
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
Quote HThis was 12 year old kid out with a group of other kids and adults. The adults f*#k-up. Period.ere

The brain, especially the frontal cortex involved in decision making and judgement, is not fully developed until 25 years of age.
12 year old kids have absolutely no business climbing without supervision - obviously ..

That's how the adults f*#ked up... for those asking the question.


Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
I almost died several times in my first few years of climbing (age 17). Unfinished knots due to migraines brought on by dehydration, rock fall, pulling gear, improperly threaded belay devices, etc. We had no adults to check anything... just some beer, weed, and cid. We lucked out.

People get way too lazy at sport crags these days. I've seen so many people start tying their knots, then do something else, then discuss beta for 3 min, then finish their knots. The whole time I am on high alert, watching them like a hawk until they finish the knot. I'm the stressed out jackass who points out they should ALWAYS finish tying or untying their knots before doing anything else. "Yeah, I know..." then they send their 5.14 whatever. I also check every fixed draw as I clip it... I've found several with webbing worn 3/4 of the way through from rubbing on the rock that people were still taking whippers on... they had no idea. I replaced them.

This is really sad. It was a simple mistake with horrific consequences. This sport has horrific consequences and it is easy to make simple mistakes.
darkmagus

Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
the frontal cortex involved in decision making and judgement, is not fully developed until 25 years of age

Winning answer.
Winning answer.
Credit: darkmagus
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:34pm PT
Dr.Christ wrote: This is really sad. It was a simple mistake with horrific consequences. This sport has horrific consequences and it is easy to make simple mistakes.

Do you have any idea what happened in this situation?


The kid was 12 years old with adults in the group.

What really sad is the climbers here comparing their (trad background) to this situation. Makes me ill.
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:40pm PT
Yeah, I have some idea of what happened in this situation, but I wasn't there so I don't know exactly. I don't think it helps anything to assign blame at this point, other than for others to learn from the mistake.

If someone gets hurt at the crag, I generally blame everyone in the area... which is why I usually leave areas that take on the casual party scene atmosphere typical at many crags... especially if younguns are around.

I think those comparing it to their trad experience are just too deeply rooted in their "trad is way more pure/serious/extreme/real than spurt climbing" mentality... which always makes me ill, regardless of the context.
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:53pm PT
The kids was given faulty quickdraws from a adult who was in the group. He was with his climbing group...the adults blew it this one. He was 12 years and didn't have to die.

The only good that can come out of this is that these people who are with these kids should be qualified and should have a checklist to check all gear before the kids start to climb.
WBraun

climber
Jul 9, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
There's no way around it.

Bob D'A has it right.

A 12 year old kid is under the supervision of adults.

There's no way around it .....
Bob D'A

Trad climber
Taos, NM
Jul 9, 2013 - 03:03pm PT
"7/5/13 – Tito Traversa, an Italian climber who just turned 12 years old in April and had already climbed several 5.14 sport routes, has died from injuries suffered in a ground fall at the French crag Orpierre. According to the website of the French magazine Grimper, Traversa was lowering off a 5.10+ route he had climbed as a warm-up when eight of the 12 quickdraws on the route failed, sending him on a ground fall of some 25 meters (82 feet). After three days in a coma in a nearby hospital, Traversa died from his injuries.

According to Grimper, the young climber was using quickdraws that another member of his group had recently purchased. The report indicates that the person assembled the quickdraws incorrectly, passing the clipping carabiner solely through the rubber-band “keeper” attached to the draw, instead of through the full-strength loop of the quickdraw. Unfortunately, the eight bad quickdraws were placed in the upper half of the route that Traversa climbed, and no one noticed the error in time.

Traversa did his first 5.14a at age 10 and had completed many more extremely difficult routes, including his fourth 14a just two days before his accident."
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 9, 2013 - 03:04pm PT
I'm not arguing with you D'A. At this point, what do you hope to accomplish by assigning blame? Obviously other adults should learn from this mistake and obviously adults are responsible for the kids they take climbing... but pointing the finger at the adults involved in this incident may just result in them pointing a gun to their heads... I know I probably would if a kid died on my watch.

another member of his group had recently purchased

And if that other member was a 12-year old as well... you think hashing out who is to blame on the (impersonal and often harsh) intardweb is going to help them overcome the loss of Tito and the associated guilt they may feel?
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