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Jul 4, 2013 - 01:59pm PT
i think you need a permit to sleep at the base of the climb, actually...

the permit is issued for free

i seem to remember the climbing ranger (ben doyle) say this

Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
Jul 4, 2013 - 02:58pm PT
Credit: briham89

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 4, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
"I was in NO mood for getting tooled and I admit kind of cranky."

That was probably at least half the problem, right there, donchathink?

Trad climber
Jul 4, 2013 - 03:14pm PT

That is why I called this post a " poor communication between LEO and climber".

I realize it takes 2 people to form an argument-whatever.

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 4, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
Maybe slightly tangential but a few years ago the wife and I hiked the High
Sierra Trail from Sequoia to Whitney. It was late September so we saw
virtually nobody until we got to Whitney. Just before Hamilton Lakes a young
Ranger overtook us which, given our ages and our loads, wasn't anything to
crow about. She asked to see our permit in something less than a warm-hearted
manner. Since it was in the top pocket of my pack I had to dismount my 58
pounder to get it. She then told me it was supposed to be displayed on the
pack. All I did was stare at her. Then she asked if we were headed to Kaweah
Gap. "No we're going to climb The Wings." OK, I only wanted to say that.
"You just read our permit itinerary, where the hell else are we going?"
OK, I didn't say that either. She lookes up at the few little cumulus building
above the crest and launches into a yer-gonna-die discourse. I replied,
"It is pretty obvious to me that the lapse rate and moisture levels really
aren't sufficient to produce any meaningfull build-ups." This went right
over her head as she continued her smarmy condescending lecture.

"Look, sweetheart, as a former Naval officer, pilot, and alpinist for 40 years,
I'd put up some serious money that my weather eye is a damned sight keener
than yours so why don't you just save your breath?"

Where do they get these people?

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 4, 2013 - 03:21pm PT
Fair enough. Still, threads like this always open the floodgates of 'All NPS-USFS-BLM-LEO's are TOOLS' Krap®. Very predictable, very distorted, and always a waste of threadspace.

Have a great 4th of July!
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Jul 4, 2013 - 04:26pm PT
apogee reminds me of that "democrats are republicans that haven't been mugged yet" thing.

There are 3 kinds of rangers;
those that are highly competent and professional and respect climbers as much as all visitors
those that are less competent but have no desire to climb
those that are less competent and resent the climbers ability to go places they'd like to

Sounds like this ranger might have been the latter.
The trouble lies with those that forget that they are public servants and begin to see themselves as public masters.

Of course there are gray areas, and people are complex, and then there are the Lobos.

(OK, maybe just one of those.)

Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
Jul 4, 2013 - 04:36pm PT
Careful with your assumptions, TV.

Social climber
Jul 4, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
Had a similar experience on the way up, a ranger trying to understand what it was we were doing. I was surprised that it was that difficult to describe that we were doing the NW face, and bivying on the wall. He asked for a permit for our 'campsite,' and I was told since we weren't bivying at the base (only on big sandy) we didn't need one. He said we needed one any time we camped in the wilderness. Yada yada yada, but I was super nice and so was he so it kinda just ended with him saying "have fun, get one next time."

You'd think they'd know more... but it's all good in tha hood.
2 l l

Sport climber
Rancho Verga, CA
Jul 4, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
They Have to cart off all the dead bodies laying like cord-wood at the base, which might explain where theyre coming from.

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jul 4, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
I was in NO mood for getting tooled and I admit kind of cranky.

The ranger was non-confrontational and wished you a pleasant farewell although it was likely you had camped w/o a permit.
He did a good job dealing with an "cranky" park visitor, imo.

I think the more important issue here is the example we set for our children.


portland, Oregon
Jul 4, 2013 - 05:29pm PT
Last year for father's day my daughter and I did Snake Dike. We got to the top around noon and hung around, napped and explored the top for a while. By the time we were headed down it was a zoo of descenders. At the bottom of the cables a ranger was checking permits and generally griping about the giant pile of abandoned gloves. When he asked to see a permit I explained we had come up via “Snake Dike”. He responded politely and wished us a good day, despite the crazy scene. You never know what you are going to get.

But last August on the Wonderland Trail around Rainier my wife and I got to see the whole gamut of ranger attitudes. One ranger got mad at me for not displaying the permit on the outside of the tent. That trail has to be at least as regulated as Whitney. We saw more than one ranger per day. I know its hyperbole, but it seemed like there were more rangers than hikers. It seems very strange that these people have the job of walking around the wilderness checking for permits that are issued free to wilderness users who for the most part want conservation of the resources more than they do.

Mountain climber
In the middle of the ocean
Jul 4, 2013 - 11:13pm PT
I was in Yosemite last summer. I was hit by a car as I rode my bike. I just wanted to go to my camp site. Then a ranger came by and next thing I know 5 rangers were giving me the once over. One of the first rangers was nice, however the boss was a king size a-hole. I finally told all the rangers present that I did not anything wrong I would only talk to the nice guy. They looked at me in great surprise and left. Yes they left, the nice one gave me a ride to my site and told my camp mate what happen. Then asked if he would keep an eye on me since I had a head injury.
Jebus H Bomz

Peavine Basecamp
Jul 5, 2013 - 01:09am PT
Wilderness is becoming more and more Disney-fied. That's why I only climb at the gym. It's too much of a scene outdoors.
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