GFYS, gay marriage haters.

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Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jul 7, 2013 - 11:54am PT
doesn't that make this act immoral?


Morality can't be legislated. And it's a free country, remember?

The sooner the christian nut cases figure that out, the sooner we can start living in harmony.

If you wanna live in a country where religious morality is law, then move to Afganistan or Iran.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 7, 2013 - 11:58am PT
A moral is only in effect when there are two or more people. If two two people are having sex with a blue buttplug or a vibrating dildo, does that make it morally right for them? Sure.

We're making some progress here.


But when all the people come together and continuously vote against this act, doesn't that make this act immoral?

Yes and no. At least you acknowledge that morality is a human invention, more progress!

Yes, a society determines its morality, one act at a time. Morality at the societal level may be likened to climate, in a way. There is no single morality. Rather its a collection of behaviors, some acceptable, some not, plotted out in mendlebrot fashion. Fall within the chaotic and seemingly ever-defining and re-defining boundaries? Its moral. Fall outside that norm, its not.

Morality, like the US Constitution, is malleable and changeable. Slavery was once argued to be moral. Now, not so much. Eating pig meat was once immoral. Now, not so much. The list is rather endless. Cannibals have their own morality too, I'm sure.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 7, 2013 - 12:02pm PT
There are some common sets of morals that are legislated, it seems to me, such as don't be murdering people, or stealing their goods, etc...

Those have stood the test of time.

There used to be laws prohibiting gay marriage. Now there are two less. The Supreme Court decided the U.S. Constitution overruled those laws. Prop. 8 didn't withstand the test of time, at all. But other morality-related laws remain on the books?

DMT
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 7, 2013 - 12:05pm PT
If you wanna live in a country where religious morality is law, then move to Afganistan or Iran.

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jul 7, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
There are some common sets of morals that are legislated, it seems to me, such as don't be murdering people, or stealing their goods, etc...

I don't see those as legislated morality, but rather as constitutional protections.

We have consitutional rights, and murdering me or stealing from me infringes on my constitutional rights.

If Joe and Mark are two consenting adults who have sex with each other with a blue butt plug, how does that infringe upon your consitutional righs? It doesn't, and so it's none of anyone else's god damn business.

But... If you create legistation that tries to prevent two consenting adults from having sex with a blue butt plug, then you are infringing upon their consitutional rights.

People need to quit asking WWJD and start asking whether or not it's constitutional. Almost everything proposed by the religious right is unconstitutional.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 7, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Yes the U.S. Supreme Court agrees with that logic, SLR.

DMT
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 7, 2013 - 12:53pm PT

But... If you create legistation that tries to prevent two consenting adults from having sex with a blue butt plug, then you are infringing upon their consitutional rights.

Sure. Anyone can do what they want behind closed doors. Jus cause ur do'in it with a blue buttplug doesn't constitute meaning to call it marriage. Marriage was invented by Jesus. It's a vow between a man and a woman to come together as one exclusively for the reason to procreate. Not to better their tax situation. Lots of men and women "get together" to have sex, even with a blue but plug. But that doesn't constitute marriage! Marriage is the definition of family. Two people combineing genes to have more people. Simple. If everybody used blue butt plugs the world would be vacant in about 50yrs.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 7, 2013 - 12:56pm PT
Marriage was invented by Jesus.

So he WAS a bastard child?

DMT
RyanD

climber
Squamish
Jul 7, 2013 - 12:57pm PT
"Combining"

Edit- DMT nails it, no wonder Jesus was such a problem child, he never had a proper family.
portent

Social climber
your mom's house
Jul 7, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
Marriage was invented by the church when it was running low on funds. Not by Jesus.

Read a book, I mean a different book...
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jul 7, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
cause ur do'in it with a blue buttplug doesn't constitute meaning to call it marriage


I'll concede that to you.

So we'll make marriage a non-legal religious ceremony with no legal standing, and it can take place in the church.

We'll call the legal ceremony "civil union" and open it to all consenting adults.

Everyone's happy. Unless the church's covert plan is deny constitutional rights to non-christians.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
So, my friend is very Christian, she works for the church. I wrote to her, asking her thoughts on this topic, because I care deeply about people's rights.

This was her reply, I think it's worth reading.

I had to laugh when I read your message. I have a *LOT* to say on the subject, but I'll try to keep it short here! This is a topic that is very dear to my heart. Unfortunately Brandon, the Christian church has not only gone along with, but been the perpetrator of many of the gravest injustices in our history, and have used the Bible to back up their actions. This breaks my heart, because while the Bible does have 6 verses that speak against homosexual behavior there are over 600 that talk about Christians' responsibility to the poor. What would the world be like if Christians focused our energy there??? And furthermore, I don't think the Bible can be divided up and picked over for the verses that say what the reader wants it to say (like it was in the argument FOR slavery, for example). The fact is, the Bible is a book written by many authors over hundreds of years. The fact that there can be any continuity at all or universal message is kind of astounding, and is what makes me care about the Bible and want to take it seriously. But there *IS* a universal message, and it is LOVE GOD AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. That is the single story of all of Scripture, so if we're not doing that, we are NOT taking the Bible seriously. So those 6 passages that mention homosexuality (that weren't even talking about consensual, committed homosexual relationships--those didn't exist at the time. What DID exist what the abuse of young boys by older men, which I believe is what those verses were prohibiting) should not have more importance than the message of LOVE that we are all called to. In fact, the Bible teaches that God IS love, so I can't see why anyone thinks that God would frown on any two people who love each other!

And a postscript;

PS: There are a lot of Christians who think the way your friends do, but there are also a LOT of Christians who are leading the call for equal rights and inclusion for the LGBT community! I'm not the only one!
Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
Jul 7, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
Wow, Brandon, I'd like to meet your friend. I have read the old and new testaments numerous times, and she has got it right.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 7, 2013 - 01:39pm PT
Ur friend doesn't know the bible very well

So those 6 passages that mention homosexuality (that weren't even talking about consensual, committed homosexual relationships--those didn't exist at the time.

Romans 1:27. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of women, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful........

Oblivious consentuality! Do you want more?
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 7, 2013 - 01:51pm PT

We'll call the legal ceremony "civil union" and open it to all consenting adults.

This is the only thing that makes sense that anyone here has said.

And I agree! This would conclude their tax problems. And allow all the legal rights , allowed
in the Land of the Free.

Now, the matter of adoption. You can't agree on bringing this huge confusion to a 2,3,4,5,6....
yr old child!
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
The fact is, the Bible is a book written by many authors over hundreds of years. The fact that there can be any continuity at all or universal message is kind of astounding, and is what makes me care about the Bible and want to take it seriously. But there *IS* a universal message, and it is LOVE GOD AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. That is the single story of all of Scripture, so if we're not doing that, we are NOT taking the Bible seriously.

Does this not make sense to you?

And, don't give me that BS where you say that you love your neighbors but still feel that they are going to hell. That's not loving your neighbor, that's personal condemnation and probably a sin.

Your born again, cherry picking attitude to religion creeps me out, and is a huge part of what is wrong in America.

Edit;

Ur friend doesn't know the bible very well

Those are fighting words, man. How very un-Christian of you. You don't know her, but she has been a devout Christian her whole life. She has based her life and work around her religion. Shame on you.
Wade Icey

Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
Jul 7, 2013 - 02:13pm PT
now, a Red, White and Blue buttplug is another issue entirely...
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jul 7, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
No we won't concede the word 'marriage' to the soul domain of the churches, sorry.

DMT
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Jul 7, 2013 - 02:34pm PT

Those are fighting words, man. How very un-Christian of you. You don't know her, but she has been a devout Christian her whole life. She has based her life and work around her religion. Shame on you.

See this is how wars start. I only know her by the words you posted. Which were not correct.

I showed you the correct meaning.

Is it wrong to be bold in the Truth?

Look at ur OP title. Those are fighting words. Hopefully without emotion you can learn something here?
Dr. Christ

Mountain climber
State of Mine
Jul 7, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
Marriage has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with two CONSENTING ADULTS choosing to be miserable together for the rest of their lives.



I'm still contemplating the ramifications of Jesus being a bastard child. My understanding is that Mary cheated on Joseph with this dude named Jehovah or the Holy Spirit or both. Since Mary remained a virgin, we can only assume a turkey baster or similar apparatus was involved. Apparently Mary and Joseph weren't married yet, because Jesus invented marriage (according to one of the dumbest posters here), so was it really cheating?

Anyway, it is clear that Jesus had at least 2 dads and many people think he turned out just fine.


(despite what the village idiot dumbfucr says, there is evidence that the institution of marriage has been around for 10's of thousands of years, if not millions.)



So those 6 passages that mention homosexuality (that weren't even talking about consensual, committed homosexual relationships--those didn't exist at the time.

dumbfucr:
Romans 1:27. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of women, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful........

What in Romans, or any other bible passage, indicates they were EVER talking about committed homosexual relationships? Learn to read you idiot.
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