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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 1, 2013 - 02:20pm PT
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[Click to View YouTube Video]
Love is love, screw what you think the bible tells you.
Marginalizing people isn't gods way, period.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
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Andrej, is that you?
Good try.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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yeah f*#k those radical spiritual folk.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Some years ago when I was studying Clinical Pshcy the whole gay question kept coming up and it was quite surprising to see the take people had who were terrified or revolted by gay mariage and so forth.
Without exception, those against all things gay, when pressed to actually explain their convictions, all insisted that there was no such thing as a God-created gay person. God only made us straight folk.
Tha is: Gay people - while the more gracious detractors allowed that they too were God's children - were in fact all perversions of the basic straight article. Some even believed that they were naturally made gay, the poor f*#ks, but in fact they were simply mistaken about their own identity by way of abuse, demonic leanings, lust, and a dire infatualtion with the old corn hole etc. These leanings could in some cases be corrected by way of gay reeducation classes, where a gay identified person could come to know Lord Jesus and get his true (straight) identity back.
So the long and the short of it is that at a fundamental level, most if not all gay detractors are in total denial that so-called God-created, natural born gay folks are real or even exist. They totally deny the possibility. Meaing the gay thing is a perversion of the one true straight template that God determined long ago, that in fact gay folk don't know themselves or their own natures, and need to be "set straight" by religious whackos masquerading as truth mongers and children of God.
And Jesus wept . . .
JL
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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O.k., I can live with that. The Bible is wrong. Fags have everything figured out.
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Blue by you. Do you believe that God created gay folks ("fags")? Or are they totally mistaken about who they are?
JL
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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You happy now, homos? Now STFU! Leave me alone with the homo bullshit!
I really hope you get it someday. What an idiot you were.
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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I for one have seen 3 gay guys that were once straight that went back to being straight and 2 are now married to women. Dont know where they figure into this equation.
There's a difference between overt sexual behavior and the "feeling" of an attraction to one's own gender. You NEVER truely know what's going through someone elses mind.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Farouk sighting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is back, yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!'
I have a sling for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
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Farouk is Moosedrool, aka Andrej.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 05:47pm PT
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Nope.
Just speaking my mind. :)
And, Farouk IS Moosedrool, or so he says.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Awesome video.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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When did Farouk frame moose Brandon? I think he is messing with you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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McCfly
climber
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Well it's confirmed.
The usual suspects that continually turn my stomach on a regular basis with their extreme right wing political views just confirmed for me that I should trust my gut.
When I read a thread and I react to the words of another that do not quite align exactly with mine I try my best to put things in perspective and remember that much is lost in translation from a afar and online and not everyone thinks like i do or should. I try to remind myself that just because someone does not have the same the same exact belief and value system as me that it does not make them a bad person. I do my best to think they just seem worse than they are.
Well so much for that approach I am done with it, finished! clearly quite a few around here are bad people, very bad people, rotten to the core. You know who you are and just know that anyone with half a sane mind feels you are deserving of nothing more than the hate and intolerance you preach.
Even god himself has no time for your intolerance and hate. It is just your pathological deranged mind that allows you to believe that the bible or Jesus or any other dam thing would justifies your ugly ugly simple little minds.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Mcfly, Farouk means you no harm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He's just trying to learn from us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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When an equal rights issue hinges on the millennia-old writings of delusional xenophobic desert wanderers, it should be pretty clear which side to be on.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
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Awesome video.
Thanks Mark, I thought so as well.
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John M
climber
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So the long and the short of it is that at a fundamental level, most if not all gay detractors are in total denial that so-called God-created, natural born gay folks are real or even exist.
:I don't believe that I am in denial. I just believe that reincarnation exists. So does Karma. I don't believe God created people to be Homosexual. Because of reincarnation, most people with Homosexual desires experience this from a young age, and thus believe that they were created that way. I believe differently.
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dirtbag
climber
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Boo hoo hoo. The homophobic marginalizers are whining about being marginalized themselves.
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John M
climber
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Hey Dirtbag. I hope you aren't talking about me.
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John M
climber
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Cool. Just wanted to make certain as you posted right after me.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 06:25pm PT
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Ron gets right down to the basic argument.
If you're gay, you're born that way. It's not your choice, you're wired to like dudes (or chicks if you're a woman).
I'm straight, but this intolerance I see every day bothers me as much as racism.
Nigger and faggot are common words where I live, and I despise hearing them.
Intolerance makes me angry, and it takes a lot for me to be angry.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Blue by you. Do you believe that God created gay folks ("fags")? Or are they totally mistaken about who they are?
God created man and woman. They both both chose to abandom Him.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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O.k., I can live with that. The Bible is wrong. Fags have everything figured out.
Seems like Evolution would say its wrong also. Afterall they are taking a pledge not to procreate.
And what about Nature? Homosexual sex certainly is not natural.
Why havnt we ever seen animals having homosexual sex?
Seems like most if not all male animals become "aroused" from the scent of
a "dripping hole" and must be concluded by "connecting the dots". In my 50
yrs of walking around, I've witnessed quite a few spieces of animals "having sex"
And I've NEVER seen a male animal stick his penis into another animals'
"pooh hole". Have you?, and what about female animals, how would that work? I quess monkeys could do it since they know how to use sticks for tools?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 06:35pm PT
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That doesn't bother me, I like seeing people being happy and in love.
What's wrong with love?
Should people who are infertile be denied marriage?
Edit;
And I've NEVER seen a male animal stick his penis into another animals'
"pooh hole".
My dogs have proven your claim invalid.
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McCfly
climber
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Donkey Dick yup that was me:
If I remember correctly I posted that in reaction to the "usual bible thumping extreme right wing juvenile" stance on yet another topic. You all can dish it out but you cant take it.
It was meant as joke and if it was taken any other way by anyone you might try to relax. Then think about taking the pole outa that uptight mean spirited ugly bigoted ass hole of yours. Ow weight secretly you like a finger in the taint don't you ;)
You all are worthy of nothing more than the hate you exude. By the amount of teeth MOOSE has left and thick aged skin that only hard hard life of struggle can create ow yeah and where beer drinking falls on his list of priorities I would say life has not been all that kind to him and rightfully so. Most of you right wingers that preach intolerance and hate seem to fit this bill well. Kinda a kawinkydink don't ya think.
You get what you give in this life fact, hate breed hate, anger breeds anger. You are a miserable bunch of sad sacks.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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What's wrong with love?
Should people who are infertile be denied marriage?
I disagree with it, but think it should be legal. Like early-term abortion.
Just do not tell me I have to accept it as something 'normal'.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Awwww Dingus! ...not twin brothers gobble-kissing
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Just do not tell me I have to accept it as something 'normal'.
That's fine, just don't tell me I have to accept your thinking as something 'normal'.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 06:46pm PT
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Just do not tell me I have to accept it as something 'normal'.
Just accept it.
I'll say it again, love is love. It needs no restrictions or boundaries.
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John M
climber
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You get what you give in this life fact, hate breed hate, anger breeds anger
This is true, unless and until someone makes a conscious decision to break the chain.
You are a miserable bunch of sad sacks.
GFYS, gay marriage haters.
same ol same ol.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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So the long and the short of it is that at a fundamental level, most if not all gay detractors are in total denial that so-called God-created, natural born gay folks are real or even exist.
:I don't believe that I am in denial. I just believe that reincarnation exists. So does Karma. I don't believe God created people to be Homosexual. Because of reincarnation, most people with Homosexual desires experience this from a young age, and thus believe that they were created that way. I believe differently.
There you have it. The entire anti-gay argument in a nutshell. They are not actually arguing against gays. They're saying in no ucertain terms that they don't actually exist in nature, but only in the person's head.
That, ladies and gentlemen, is denial of biblical proportions.
JL
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Just do not tell me I have to accept it as something 'normal'.
Just don't tell us we have to accept your idiotic drivel as something other than narrow minded homophobic bullsh#t.
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John M
climber
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Its not denial. I see clearly that many homosexuals feel that they were born that way. In one respect, they were. But not as a source of the Creator, but as a source of choices and experiences from previous lifetimes. The problem is that we don't clearly remember our previous lifetimes. This is in part due to the karmic buildup on this planet.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Where ELSE could it be from John, other than the "Mind"?
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WBraun
climber
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There are the "senses" then higher is the "mind" still higher is the "Intelligence" and still higher is the "soul".
Where John is coming from requires one to have experience with all of the above .....
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John M
climber
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What I am saying is that I believe in a Creator. I also believe that the Creator did not create us to be homosexual. Choices and experiences have led people down that path. And then over lifetimes it becomes an ingrained experience which causes one to feel that they were born that way. This is due to the inability of most to remember their previous lifetimes.
Edit: The scriptural teachings on reincarnation were done away with in the Christian religion in the 4th century.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 07:09pm PT
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Where ELSE could it be from John, other than the "Mind"?
Seriously?
I want to diss you so badly right now, but I won't, because I'm better than that.
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Tricouni
Mountain climber
Vancouver
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Happy Canada Day!
Here gay marriage ( and divorce ! ) is legal. I teach loads of kids from 2-mum families and have had the pleasure of teaching the sons of a 2-dad family ( much more rare )
They're just families. Just like man/woman + kid families. No better; no worse. Full stop.
Bang on, Tami! They're just people, like all of us on this thread.
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John M
climber
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The animal kingdom along with the physical Earth out pictures the human condition. Animals were not created to behave in such a manner. Just as they were not created to prey on each other. That is a result of the predominance of mankinds choices to turn from God and thus create a world where one must wrest their sustenance from the weeds and the thistles and from each other.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
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Classy, Ron.
I like women and equal rights, you got a problem with that?
And John, my dogs hump each other all the time.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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John M, your silly religious views are just as irrelevant as all the others.
If being gay is just a choice, can you tell us when did you decide you didn't like sucking cocks?
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John M
climber
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You don't read very well Wes. . But congrates on the Doctorate.
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John M
climber
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And Wes.. you may not have formally joined a religion, and it may not exist in writing, but your beliefs are a form of religion subscribed to by many. So trying to belittle me for my beliefs by labeling them religious is .. silly.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I see nothing, Dingus...The NSA has rendered me back on dial-up
(Nice outfits, though. Hopefully, they don't fly United) :-)
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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no such thing as a God-created gay person. God only made us straight folk.
So god isn't the most powerful omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent thing in the universe, what is? I mean, didn't it create everything in heaven and earth? Seems like they're cutting off god's balls to spite it's face....
And if god hates gays so much and it can wipe them out with just a blink of an eye, then why hasn't it? And if it hates gays so much, what does that say about the innocent children born with horrific debilitating diseases and people dying early who have done unbelievable good without asking for recognition? That's how it shows love!? I've got all these questions, why can't god answer them if it's omnipresent?
[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHmTqoLjlXo]
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John M
climber
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And John, my dogs hump each other all the time.
I'm sure that they do. As I said. Animals out picture the human condition. That condition is a direct result of choices made by humans combined with what we were originally created to Be. We were not originally created to be homosexual.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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DMT just has a huge crush on Jennie.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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What can I say, you have excellent taste.
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John M
climber
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So god isn't the most powerful omniscient/omnipresent/omnipotent thing in the universe, what is? I mean, didn't it create everything in heaven and earth? Seems like they're cutting off god's balls to spite it's face..
In the beginning was God. And God was all that there was. Then God created the heavens and the earth and populated the Earth with man, a being made in God's image. God then gave man dominion over the Earth and all there on, including the beasts of the land and of the sea. And God saw that it was good.
Then man denied God as creator and thus man fell out of grace, and all of creation that exists today on Earth stems from mans decisions.
We were created to be more of God. To do that we were given many of the powers of God, even the power to abuse life. Which we did. That abuse has led to mans current condition.
Thus, God did not create mans current condition. We did.
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WBraun
climber
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WTF is this guy
Looks like a c*#k eater for sure ....
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 07:35pm PT
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Love is awesome and I support it in every way, shape, or form.
Long live love!!!
All you haters can GFYS!!! It bears repeating.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Sucks that John M keeps taking a dump in this thread.
At least WB is here to clean it up.
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John M
climber
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All you haters can GFYS!!
Brandon, I think you are a good guy, but this is such a funny statement. You are angry with people for being hateful, so you are hateful towards them. What does that say about you?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 07:43pm PT
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Well, christian fundamentalists will be christian fundamentalists, no matter how wrong they are.
I feel sorry for them. If there is a god, they will be judged poorly on account of their bias.
Edit; I'm a kind human, but intolerance raises my ire. There is no place for it in my life, and there should be no place for it in anyone's life. There I go again, telling all of you how to be kind, my bad.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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If DMT is Jennie
It's true Sully...Dingus even has the Happy Valley Twang down...when he's not southern drawling...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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By Patricia McBroom, Public Affairs
BERKELEY -- The level of male hormones in the womb can influence an unborn child's future sexual orientation, according to new research from a University of California, Berkeley.
Marc Breedlove, professor of psychology, also found that higher levels of these male hormones, or androgens, can create a greater than normal tendency for both males and females to develop a homosexual orientation.
"There is no gene that forces a person to be straight or gay," said Breedlove, who studies the biology of sexual orientation. "I believe there are many social and psychological, as well as biological, factors that make up sexual preference.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
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This has turned into such a fun thread!
Separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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Who cares what people do and who they love. I consider myself a bit religious but chose to not adhere to beliefs that do not gel with reality. Also, all those that hate for or against something like gay marriage can GFYS LOL. Hate on either side of the argument is just that...HATE.
Also, divorce attorneys are salivating. I think it is OK to hate attorneys though.
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Gene
climber
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Why does every discussion about gays and marriage remind me of the bickering nonsense usually confined to 6th grade homerooms?
If you oppose gay marriage, don’t marry anyone of your gender.
If you support gay marriage, marry whomever you want.
Simple.
Carry on.
g
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WBraun
climber
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This has turned into such a fun thread!
Separating the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
You've done nothing.
You don't have clue what's going on.
You just think you do.
This gay and hetro argument stuff is bottom feeder garbage and stupid.
Real knowledge is much higher than that .....
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
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You've done nothing.
You don't have clue what's going on.
You just think you do.
Really, Werner?
I'm a kind, caring individual.
It seems that you are as well.
Why are you busting my chops?
Just because?
Whatever your reason, I still think you're an excellent human.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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hahahaaa... WB's not a human.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
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1 Bedroom Apt. / Condo Rental in Phuket, Thailand
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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This gay and hetro argument stuff is bottom feeder garbage and stupid.
Real knowledge is much higher than that .....
Can't argue with that.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Where ELSE could it be from John, other than the "Mind"?
Seriously?
I want to diss you so badly right now, but I won't, because I'm better than that.
Easy, Brandon. The silly poultroon who dashed that off is refering to another thread where all-or-nothing thinking has some of the followers by the short hairs and they can't see anything but machinery out there. It's no fault of their own, I have come to believe. They were simply never given to qustioning their own thoughts, as if everthing was true so long as they thunk it.
For instance, it's almost certain that sexual orientation is a brain stem, instinctual and involuntary response the same way the us straight folk yearn poon. Meaning sexual orientation is not an idea or belief of persuation nor yet the residue of a past life. It's part of a person's genetic make up.
An all-or-nothng thinker will take that and reason that ALL human behavior and subjective processes are perforce genetically driven. This, we now know, is in psychological/cognitive science terms, a thought distortion. Much as those who think a gay person would "choose" that lifestyle for the simple pleasure of being help up as a faggot, deamon, and rotton no-good delusional perv by all the geniuses on this thread, whose guiding light are excerpts from the 2,000 year old part of the bible known as the Old Testiment. But in typical all-or-nothig thinking, and given the vast differences between the old and new testiments, a fundamantalist would have to believe that the bible is entirely true, or entirely false, in a literal away. Had they ever actaully done biblical hermaneutics, they'd soon realize that primne biblical chapters like Song of Songs were never literal documents to begin with. But no one is acusing these people of being nucanced thinkers, or thinkers at all - and we can easily see why.
JL
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I feel sorry for them. If there is a god, they will be judged poorly on account of their bias.
Yea, Bias toward the sin. Not the sinner. I don't hate any person for having homosexual sex acts. I get along fine with most of the "gays" I've met. Jus like I've met alot of nice people that were thieves. And even a couple of murderers. Other than that one instance of killing someone, he was a great guy. So do I hate all murderers and thieves? No just the mind-set
that brought them to commit these deplorable acts.
I hate stealing, but I love giving
I hate killing, but I love procreating
I hate buttholes, but I love pussy
You can call me a hater. But don't forget to call me a lover too..
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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I hate buttholes, but I love pussy
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It's got to be a indicator of my immatrity, but soon as I see that whacky sh#t I start laughing my ass off.
I can't get my mind around buggery nohow but to each his own.
JL
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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I can't get my mind around buggery nohow but to each his own.
Well said. I personally, couldn't agree more. I believe that that being "gay" is all nurture and zero nature. The thought of intimacy with another dude makes me want to puke. Yet, as far as the gay marriage issue is concerned, just because it isn't my lifestyle choice, I think that people should have the right (not any church or the Government) to choose what they want for themselves.
A bar patron who frequents the bar that I manage, showed me this...
He's a self professed flamer and a funny MF too. Laughed my ass off.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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, I think that people should have the right (not any church or the Government) to choose what they want for themselves.
Hear,Hear, I Agree! Afterall we do live in a country that was started by men running away from suppression. They were so inspired they wrote down a page of words and meanings
inwhich we are still trying to aspire to today. Some of which are; "We are all endowed by our
Creator with certain inalienable RIGHTS, among those rights are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness." and, " All men are CREATED EQUAL" and " the sanctimony of MARRIGE shall be between a man and a woman through wedlock". These are words put together to propose a meaning. Written in 1776. Some 4000 yrs before that, the Creator
used words like " one man and one woman shall leave their parents and come together in a MARRIGE to become as one united. In order to procreate and start their own family".
Now these are all just words. But words come from the heart. And we can hold these words up and try to deciefer their meanings. OR we can jumble them up to make them mean what we want..
I'm more pissed off with our language... I can care less what you wanna do in the bedroom!!
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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If some of you guys had a brain, you'd be dangerous.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Gary, Sorry but i started with ur first box " nuclear family". And none of what's written there is in my bible. my Genesis 2:24 sez; "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. 25 and they were both naked, the man and his wife, and we're not ashamed.
I don't believe ur cut-n-paste on Marrige to be very trustworthy.
Do you believe that stuff?
Or did you think I did?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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The fact that this thread even exists... Lets raise a glass for being on the right side of history.
Live, love, and have empathy. Elevate your consciousnes.
Spent the weekend at a wedding with my (new) aunts, married with 2 kids. The most amazing children I'd met. Absolute respect and love in that family.
Peace!
(P.s. - I don't want to picture any of YOU having sex, either. People are so much more than their sexuality.)
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BobLoblaw
climber
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"And what about Nature? Homosexual sex certainly is not natural.
Why havnt we ever seen animals having homosexual sex?
Seems like most if not all male animals become "aroused" from the scent of
a "dripping hole" and must be concluded by "connecting the dots". In my 50
yrs of walking around, I've witnessed quite a few spieces of animals "having sex" And I've NEVER seen a male animal stick his penis into another animals'
"pooh hole". Have you?, and what about female animals, how would that work? I quess monkeys could do it since they know how to use sticks for tools?"
This is a completely ignorant statement. Homosexual sex is pretty common in nature, especially among other primate species. As a biologist, I've personally seen it dozens of times while working on a monkey research project. Female bonobos perform a sexual act together called "GG rubbing" that's so common a quick Google search would probably give you 10+ papers on it. You're already on the internet, maybe use it to inform yourself before stating things that are patently false.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Why would u need the Internet for info when U got 1 book with everything u need to know.
As usual, Jim B is on point:
Hilarious...
A bunch of straight dudes arguing about what being gay is like !
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Fish Boy
Social climber
Squeamish
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To the people who suggest same sex coitus only occurs in the species homo sapiens and not other species and drawing the conclusion that therefore it is unnatural, you are completely wrong.
Here's some dumbed down wiki information for you...scroll down to read about several species homo sexual behaviours. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexual_behavior_in_animals
Research indicates that various forms of same-sex sexual behavior are found throughout the animal kingdom. A new review made in 2009 of existing research showed that same-sex behavior is a nearly universal phenomenon in the animal kingdom, common across species
One species in which exclusive homosexual orientation occurs is that of domesticated sheep (Ovis aries). "About 10% of rams (males) refuse to mate with ewes (females) but do readily mate with other rams.
Even if you believed that homo sapiens were the only species to exhibit this behavior, why would it therefore be deemed unnatural? Does a trait have to be found in more than one species to be natural? Where is the logic in that?
Even if homosexuals cannot reproduce together, it doesn't mean that evolutionary theory would decrease the occurrence of homo sexuality. Not all members of a species have to reproduce in order for them to be natural or normal. Billions of ants don't reproduce, however they have a very obvious evolutionary selection process occurring. Lot's of heterosexual homo sapiens are born without the ability to reproduce.
Genetics and the influence that our world has upon them is very complex, don't attempt to understand it without attempting to do some research.
And throw away your f*#king bibles....
(BobLoblaw beat me to it two posts above!)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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And throw away your f*#king bibles....
Hey now!!!
You should burn em instead. Great firewood, and can you imagine the landfills otherwise?
:)
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Fish Boy
Social climber
Squeamish
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Homo sexual behavior includes intercourse, as does hetro sexual. It also includes all other forms of intimacy that homo sapiens and many other social creatures exhibit.
Try not to simplify the issue.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^ you ought to back and reread ur wiki link
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Fish Boy
Social climber
Squeamish
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This part?
Such behaviors include sexual activity, courtship, affection, pair bonding, and parenting among same-sex animal pairings.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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It's clear that much of the opposition to gay marriage is based in religion. In the US particularly, it seems that the common theme in the "No" camp is some variation on "God intended marriage to be between one man and one woman."
In fact, the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that that is the only ground for opposition. Have any of you heard other arguments? Or of opposition from non-religious people?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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^^^^ couldn't have said it better.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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I think all marriages should be dark & dank.
If you have to be happy & gay so be it.
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John M
climber
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Actually based in suppressed homo-erotic urges coupled with peer pressure and bag-of-dirt ignorance.
This is just mean and ignorant. There is no peer pressure on me, except from people who believe like you. Most of Christianity rejects the teachings on reincarnation and my own family labels me a heretic. My life would be so much easier if I just changed my beliefs.
You think highly of yourself Dingus, and sneer at those who believe differently from you. And when you don't have an argument, then you resort to insults. Its beneath you.
I thought better of you too GDavis.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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This isn't paper or plastic, it's human rights. There is no 'opinion' on it and the crucible of time will show it.
I grew up to it a few years ago. Will you, or do you cling to tired and dead dogma?
I am ignorant on many topics - that's why I learned to listen to others.
Go tell my aunts they shouldn't be together. Go tell a grown man what he can and can't do. To their face. If your 'opinion' is plausible and respectable.
It is rooted in hate and ignorance. Lots of times I'm screwing around here for a chuckle. Real talk - go look someone in the face and say what you think here.
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John M
climber
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No Dingus, I didn't like you saying that I have suppressed homosexual desires. Thats a typical low insult. Do you enjoy being insulted?
And I don't hide behind my religious beliefs. How is it hiding if I am standing here stating what I believe and subjecting myself to your insults?
For your edification, I have a number of homosexual friends. They know what I believe. I don't try to force my beliefs on them and they respect me for that. I also don't hide my beliefs, which they also respect. Something you could learn.
You have expressed in the past that you don't like people who jump to labels, yet that is exactly what you do with anyone who states any religious belief which goes contrary to what you believe. . Unless its some wishy washy unconditional nonsense. Then you just ignore it. But when someone challenges you, then you resort to insults. Thats pretty low.
The only thing that you have are insults. They don't and won't serve you well.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I'm all for rational discussion. Why are you against gay marriage?
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John M
climber
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It is rooted in hate and ignorance. Lots of times I'm screwing around here for a chuckle. Real talk - go look someone in the face and say what you think here.
So is your opinion of me. Rooted in hate and ignorance. You resorted to insults and you don't even know me.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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"So is your opinion of me. Rooted in hate and ignorance. You resorted to insults and you don't even know me."
I have no idea who you are nor did I single you out. The ego inserted yourself.
For the life of me I can't remember a discussion you and I had.
Ill be in the tuolumne meadows campground most July. I'd love to get to know you and have a discussion there. I literally grew up in chat rooms and understand the dynamics perhaps differently as it appears everyone interprets bland text on their own accord.
My family is very religious and I love then very much. Many of them have been helped by it. That doesn't mean religion sets the standard for 'morality.'
Have your own interpretation of the bible, live your own life as an example.
But let others live THEIR life. The bible has no more answers for how to be a good person in 2013 as Harry potter.
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John M
climber
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I'm not necessarily against gay marriage. I believe that it is wrong in the eyes of God, but I'm not certain that God wants me to try and force his/her beliefs on anyone. But I also know that because it is wrong, that there are consequences, and if I don't speak up about my beliefs, then I am in essence, condoning these kinds of behaviors. Consequences that the entire world has to pay for. Ignorance as an excuse only works for so long. There is Karma to be paid. We will all be paying that Karma back shortly. The cycles of time are here.
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John M
climber
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Dingus, I know how to take a joke. My gay friends have jokingly called me a fag. I understand a joke.
Are you saying that you were joking? Because its not easy to see that.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Ah, the westboro approach.
The karmic equation is irrational. If you fear another sodom and gamorha I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.
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John M
climber
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I don't understand your implications Greg. What do you mean by "the westboro approach". To me those people are truly misguided and at times cruel.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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We were created to be more of God. To do that we were given many of the powers of God, even the power to abuse life. Which we did. That abuse has led to mans current condition.
Thus, God did not create mans current condition. We did.
Not buying it. I still posit that if your god created everything and yet we somehow were able to create something (aberrant behaviors, etc) beyond it's control, then god isn't the ultimate power. In fact, we're more powerful than it.
Alternately, you're saying that god, acting as a parent, gave us a bent fork and said, "don't stick that in the electrical outlet or I'll be mad!" Sounds like pretty neglectful parenting in my book.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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It's ok, dingus. Some think sexuality is black and white. Just like good and evil.
Even gender is grey. If you don't get that, you need some new friends :)
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John M
climber
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I don't fear the future Greg. I am concerned about what is coming. Mostly because I believe that it is coming, and yet few are even ready to listen, and thus will pay a heavy price.
If you fully believed that something was coming down the pike. Yet you also knew that most people would not listen, and would heap scorn on you for having that belief, then what would you do? I believe that the cycles of time have turned, and this worlds Karma is about to hit. Specifically in December or January. If it doesn't happen, then you can heap scorn on me all that you want and I will take it.
I have been debating starting a thread on prophecy. I'm just not certain that I want to subject myself to the scorn that people like you and Dingus will heap on me.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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God made SIDS :)
People killed by Satan in the bible - 13
People killed by God - 2million+
But it's ok, they were having gay sex.
Satan gave us the apple and wanted us to draw our own conclusions. He tried to feed a fasting Jesus and didn't do sh#t to Job.
Hail satan!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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"I don't fear the future Greg. I am concerned about what is coming. Mostly because I believe that it is coming, and yet few are even ready to listen, and thus will pay a heavy price. "
Then go wear a sandwich board in Times Square.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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It is rooted in hate and ignorance.
Still, if you don't think ol' time religion plays a role in all this then you've never been in the grip of its theism as a worldview. Or you have no real life experience knowing someone who has.
It remains one of the strangest queerest things of all - how people can hear a religious devotee (a bluering or Cragman or John M or Klimmer) tell them straight up to their face it's their religion or it's what God says that motivates and directs them - yet they dismiss this as NOT REALLY the cause (of their ideas or ideation or their attitude or their behavior).
Perhaps it is the "curse of knowledge."
.....
I have been debating starting a thread on prophecy. I'm just not certain that I want to subject myself to the scorn that people like you and Dingus will heap on me.
Not to mention HFCS. ;)
Believe me, I see through you like glass.
Get your head out of the bronze age. Take some science courses. Educate yourself.
P.S. I don't care how old you are, either, as long as you're of the voting demographic. No free passes for old men who vote. If you vote, then you should require of yourself to adapt, to upgrade, to discard outdated beliefs that are impediments to progressive, informed, functional democratic rule.
Btw, your posts above are just a half-step from claiming homosexuality and other bible-based abominations are the cause of earthquakes, disease and such. Clearly you have a faith in bronze age desert dwellers and their literature. But where is your evidence-based faith in 21st century modernity. Sad.
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John M
climber
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Everytime this topic comes up, the same men will rush to assert their masculinity. As if the very topic of gay marriage is some threat to their hormonal balance.
Here you go again with the judgments and the labels.
Its a silly argument because you post on the same threads. Its also silly because you claim to dislike judgmental people.
God says to judge not, lest we be judged, but if we do judge, then to judge righteously. We can of course disagree what is righteous. That is what we are doing here. What I don't understand if how you can't see your own hypocrisy.
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John M
climber
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Then go wear a sandwich board in Times Square.
More insults.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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What I don't get is that the Pilgrims came here to escape religious persecution.
Or did they come here just so they could be the persecutors?
Actually, I think we all can agree that America's true religion is the Pursuit
of the Holy Buck. If that is so then gay marriage is good for business,
well, if you're a florist or a home furnishings retailer. But it will also
be good for the accountants and lawyers who run this country so why are they
holding things up? Oh, wait, a lot of those lawyers work for the guvmint
which doesn't want to lose all that tax income from the newlyweds' joint
filing status.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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You walked right into that one :)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Can you guys take a break from insulting each other for a minute (or, not insulting in Dingus' case) and help me with my question? I'd still like to know if there is opposition to gay marriage that isn't based in religion.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Couldn't care less, mate. You brought it up. No need to drape your protective religious mantle over the actual subject matter here - gay marriage haters. If you fit that bill, then you wear the damned hat, and wear it proudly. Stop hiding behind this religious bullsh#t.
Exactly. Hate is hate and should never be tolerated. It should be squashed immediately. It should never be allowed to get its foot in the door. It allows people to do evil, all in the name of some f*#ked up religion. Or ideology.
F*#k that sh#t.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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If you want non-religious reasons not to change the definition of marriage, maybe you should ask the Chinese or Russians, not suoertopians.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Ghost, I've met my share of homophobe atheists.
Thanks. Do you know what their reasoning is?
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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I'd still like to know if there is opposition to gay marriage that isn't based in religion.
That's a very interesting question, especially if it is backed up by actual data.
I think the main driver in all of the gay bashing is fear, as though homosexuality is contageous, and all you have to do is tempt some folk and they'll generate spontaneous gay lust and get straight to clam bumping et al. This is really another iteration of the "there is no such thing as a natural gay person, it is all by choice."
It would be interesting to find out what the data says per sexual orientation being choice as opposed to a native, involuntar response, which certainly seems to be the case with me. I never choose to like girls. It has always seemed the most natural thing to do.
The problem with most of the anti-gay folk is that they violte the number one rule about something or some one: If you want to know the truth, start by asking a bunch of questions from the people involved so you have some first hand, empiracle info. On the other hand you have the gay detractors who ask no questions and instead inform the queer who he or she really is, but doesn't know. These are the folk who have no interest in learning anything new, and instead look only to bolster their current understanding, seeking no new information or experinces, rather allies who can back them up.
This was hugely at play in another thread I was on and it was sobering to see so-called adventurous folk willing to repeat the same route, so to speak, but totally unwilling to go into brand new terrain - thour they would speculate endlessly about what had to be there, based on their own projections.
And that's how I largely see the anti-gay crowd - that it is largely fear and projections, evidenced by the totaly lack of questions since their mind is already made up what the truth is. So here you have a closed cognitive loop, and only powerful and direct experiences can hope to change such a rigid mindset, something particular to older folks "lost in the matrix," and strangely proud of it.
Not everyone wants to look at things with rigorous and fearless honestly.
JL
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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That's to funny.
"the westboro approch" misguided & sometimes cruel.
No down right EVIL.
Anyone that would do what they do in front of a fallen American soldiers family, at his or hers funeral is sick, a traitor, & EVIL.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Having two parents of two genders is the circumstances under which humans have lived for many generations, so it is arguable that the biological development of a child's brain has evolved to respond better to this environment.
DUH! It is THE reason that we've lived for so many generations!
It is America's greatest shame that we have so many unwanted children. One would think that as "smart" as we are, we would hold up our children as our Greatest commodity. And the brightest light for the future. Instead, just in the last year we killed over 600,000 kids before they were able to take their first breath. And how many hundreds of thousands have been left at the adoption door? This IS the root to the disintegration of America.
Dissolve the meaning of family and it's morals, and what do you have left?
The last black eye was putting wife's in the workplace. Having both parents
going to work and leaving the kids with a sitter. Has only taught the children that money
is more important than family.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Bob Loblaw's law blog sums up the essence of the religiously based homophobic opposition to same sex marriage.
http://bobloblawlawblog.ytmnd.com/
Those who think homosexuality is all nurture and no nature need to get out more. My next door neighbors growing up had 2 boys, about 12 months apart. I was 5 years old when the oldest was born. They did everything together. By the time the oldest one was 5 it was obvious he was gay and the younger one was not. He would play with my sister's hair rather than play catch... now he is a very well paid and well known hair dresser, and in a committed gay relationship.
I asked my old (gay) boss when he realized he was gay. He said since as early as he could remember he knew he was attracted to boys, not girls. He asked me if I had ever or would ever suck a cock. I said there is no way I could... unless I committed myself to yoga for at least a year. He said something along the lines of "that is how you know you are not gay and how I know I am." The thought of going down on a woman was as repulsive to him as sucking a c*#k is to (most) heterosexual males.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I think most gay bashing is the result of suppressed homo-erotic urges
Again, this is ur judgemental opinion of how I feel? Thanks. But NO!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Having two parents of two genders is the circumstances under which humans have lived for many generations
BULLSH#T! Countless children have been raised without fathers and/or mothers around and turned out just fine. The vast majority of human history consists of children being raised in the structure of the extended family or tribe, often in polygynic or polyandric marriages. You live in the fantasy world of familialism, sold by the religious conservatives in the west to narrow minded fools. Take an anthropology class... there is a great big world out there you apparently know nothing about.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You live in the fantasy world of familialism, sold by the religious conservatives in the west to narrow minded fools.
Thanks for ur judgemental opinion! But again lies!
I was raised by one or less parents. I'm preaching from the pulpit of experience!
And I wouldn't call it narrow minded. I'd call it being focused.
To be narrow minded ur view comes from living on just one side of the tracks.
Have you ever even been in our neighborhood?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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The vast majority of children in human history were NOT raised by "two parents of two genders." And certainly NOT "THE reason that we've lived for so many generations!" You are absurdly misinformed.
I was raised by one or less parents. I'm preaching from the pulpit of experience!
So was I. In fact, I can't think of anyone I grew up with who had "two parents of two genders..." and I grew up in Utah. You are spewing from the pulpit of ignorance. Your experience says absolutely NOTHING about how most children were raised throughout history. Your claim about familialism being the reason for so many generations is absurdly ignorant. The "traditional" Merkin family structure was pushed HARD in the 1950's... leading to the highest divorce rates in the country.
To be narrow minded ur view comes from living on just one side of the tracks.
One side of the tracks... hell, we couldn't even afford tracks.
Have you ever even been in our neighborhood?
I don't know. Where is your neighborhood?
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McCfly
climber
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A large % of those that frequent the Taco are such a sad sad bunch.
Ignorance is bliss I suppose but how do you all live with yourself for real. I like to think as delusional as we all can be at times that we all know when our sh#t stinks. If that is the case you far right leaning guys must have a huge huge ache deep down in your souls stuffed so far down it is lost...
I am sorry for the pain you all live with. Carrying around that kind of baggage is a full time job. I will pray you all that you find a better way and some piece.
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drewsky
climber
Seattle
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Thank you for posting those pictures sully. From some of the opinions voiced here, it's clear there was need for a reminder that gay people ACTUALLY EXIST and can be actual caring human beings. Who would have thunk it?
I share the idea posited by a few others here that fear is the driving force behind all bigotry, homophobia obviously included. It seems to manifest itself in a variety of ways. Those who wear their hatred on their sleeves feel threatened because of their own insecurities. Then there are those who fear deific punishment(or 'Karma', in this thread(?!)) for alleged transgressions (homosexuality, for example); fear compartmentalized. I like Largo's concept of the 'all-or-nothing' thinker; it's a hallmark of that type to always fall back on a rigid foundation that changes for naught but cataclysm.
It's interesting to me that the choice vs. instinct (or what have you) debate is still raging. Though it's widely accepted by those capable of rational thought that biology is part of sexual orientation, the naysayers will simply switch gears from ranting about people 'choosing' to transgress 'nature' to ranting about the unnaturalness of the actual biology. Nothing changes: the thinking remains one-dimensional. Rather than falling to discrete possibilities, sexual orientation exists on a spectrum, which is even harder for the hoopleheads to process.
Eventually it might even be accepted that having free choice in our sexual preferences is natural and healthy, while our orientation will be somewhat set from a very young age. In that mythical world, it would be alright to 'swing both ways' without this obsession over gay or straight, or in other words possess freedom over our sexualities without fear of reprisal. Of course, by that point racism won't exist either and we'll have traded global conflict for the collaborative exploration of space.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I will pray you all that you find a better way and some piece.
Who is it that you pray to Mcfly?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Having two parents of two genders is the circumstances under which humans have lived for many generations, so it is arguable that the biological development of a child's brain has evolved to respond better to this environment.
My reading comprehension is just fine, the above is complete bullsh#t.
Kos is right... don't take a class... wallow in your own ignorance and make sh#t up... just like he does. I'm sure some idiot on here will agree with what you way, regardless of the truth.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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It was quite the education seeing one of those. I mean,,, a SAWZALL????
He Ron, there was this one time Steve Grossman took a sawzall to my meat. Of course I froze it first so there was no pain, so don't worry. I've got some pictures if you'd like to see them.
Locker edit
It was a 15 pound chunk of meat from a critter that ate hay! Sorry. couldn't resist
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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How about the Bible Ron, which isn't just accessible to children but rammed down their throats from a very early age?
Does requiring a woman to be wed to her rapist for the rest of her life disgust you?
Deuter 22:28
“If a man meets a virgin who is not betrothed, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are found, then the man who lay with her shall give to the father of the young woman fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife, because he has violated her. He may not divorce her all his days.
How about the infanticide... is that as disgusting as Trannies, vesties, lesbos and Gays?
Hippocrap
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Ron, FWIW, I spend a TON of time in front of a computer... connected to the internet... I even look at porn. I've been looking at internet porn since 1992.
I have never seen the stuff you describe. Just sayin...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
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Hahaha...Ron's going to be so butthurt by that comment.
Largo and Drewsky have made some very rational observations. Thanks.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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I'm sorry you are so confused and/or a fuking idiot Kos. What part of that statement suggests it has anything to do with science or scientific data?
ITs THERE! on FREE sites that anyone can enter
I don't doubt your claims Ron. My point is, some of us DON'T enter... or ANALize it... as much as others.
(ha dingus)
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dirt claud
Social climber
san diego,ca
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Ah... anal-curious are ya? Shall we get you a tutor?
You gonna lend him yours Dingus?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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you DONT wanna look but you do any how
you don't really understand how this internet thing works, do you?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Sorry to interupt this usefull dribble
Because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became FUTILE in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Therefore God
also "gave them up" to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies
among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served
the CREATURE rather than the CREATOR, who is blessed forever. For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is
AGAINST nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting.
Apostle Paul said this to the Roman Empire 2000 yrs ago. Describing how God merely
"gives them up" to their own way of thinking.
I can't imagine a more sad picture then seeing God turn His back on one of my bothers.
The Good News is Jesus Welcomes Everyone with Openarms!!
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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and jesus wept!!
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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... the 'all-or-nothing' thinker; it's a hallmark of that type to always fall back on a rigid foundation that changes for naught but cataclysm.
--
Learning through crisis. Not a sound strategy. It might be interesting to contrast the relative fossilization of one's beliefs and convictions with their age. I sense that a lot of the rank words on thise site is the fruit of foggy gloom.
JL
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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charles i'm not attracted to you but i have seen largo around malibu..
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
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I can't imagine a more sad picture then seeing God turn His back on one of my bothers.
And,
The Good News is Jesus Welcomes Everyone with Openarms!!
Aren't you contradicting yourself there? The holy trinity is one, right? So one third has turned it's back on fags, another third welcomes everyone with open arms? Everyone means everyone, right?
What does the Holy Ghost have to say about this? It obviously is in a position to cast the deciding vote.
Anyway, I don't prescribe to your religious discrimination anyhow. I shouldn't even justify your passive aggressive marginalization with a response.
The only religious organization I have any openness to is the Episcopal church, for accepting Gene Robinson.
Edit; Charles, think what you want, I'm simply voicing my support for a group that is being discriminated upon. No more, no less. It's all about equal rights, IMO.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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What does the Holy Ghost have to say about this? It obviously is in a position to cast the deciding vote.
I've already spoken.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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I can't imagine a more sad picture then seeing God turn His back on one of my bothers.
I can. It is a picture of people living in the 21st century who still think the 2000+ year old passages of desert wanderers are still relevant.
But only some are relevant... not the one's about a man owning a woman because he raped her (there goes the women's vote)... or the one about killing children because the voices told you to... or about eating certain foods...
Just the one's about virgins giving birth, zombies rising from the dead, and homosexuality being wicked.
Lucky that @&%%XZ@#*&!X POS was gone. I would have shot him dead at 10 if my Bro in law didnt kill him with a punch first
Why is that lucky? It would seem far luckier if you had found him and prevented him from doing it to someone else.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Pedophiles are pedophiles. Homosexuals are men attracted to men. Most pedophiles live lives of quiet desperation posing as heterosexuals because their proviclivities would get them killed if found out, as it should. I was tagged at 4 by a pedophile for a solid year. He ended up dying of AIDS, leaving a wife and 2 children behind. Of course I let his wife know in an anyonymous letter I sent while he was gasping his last. If the disease hadn't taken him out, I would have without a second thought. He needed to suffer, to have his family turn his back on him at the last possible moment, as I planned. I play my enemies like a fukin game of chess... Don't equate homosexuality with pedophila, mr. Anderson. The two aren't even in the same ball park.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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everyone knows that the 2+ minute old passages of internet misfits is so much more relevant.
I do not agree entirely, which is to say, I do not exactly disagree.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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He needed to suffer, to have his family turn his back on him at the last possible moment, as I planned. I play my enemies like a fukin game of chess...
Interesting.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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I chose not to be gay because I can't party hard enough and I hate disco.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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High fructose, if he was standing in front of me right now, I'd cut his heart out and peel the scalp from his skull. Mr. Anderson can appreciate that, with his Choctaw heritage and all....
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2013 - 06:49pm PT
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Ron, as Sandstone Conglomerate pointed out, there is a vast difference between homosexuals and pedophiles.
Like apples and oranges, dude.
Nobody here but you is talking about pedophiles.
Pedophiles are vile, gay folks are just like you and me.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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So as not to pollute Ron's thread about stuffing animals, I will repost here...
Ron Anderson:
I found out that i have just mounted the WRONG BEAR
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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If I wanted to taxidermy a pedophile, say on the toilet with his pants down which is how the f*#ker used to get me, how much for that diorama?
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yedi
Trad climber
Stanwood,wa
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"Was just referencing why i would never choose to be gay"
Sounds like this is part the fuss. Don't think you have a choice. A lot of folks just can't seem to get past this.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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I'm busting your balls dude. I would have liked a scalp though. I'd frame that sh#t. Mr. Anderson isn't a bad guy. Pedophilia will make you crazy though, and the fags are harmless. Like I said, this f*#k died leaving a wife and 2 kids. I should have taken him out, but didn't. Maybe I'm no better....
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WBraun
climber
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226 posts
Proves you're all gay and way homo .....
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Mr. Braun, living legend replied to my post. Sir, I am honored...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
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Every time I start an OT thread, it's because I truly care about the discussion we should have regarding the issue.
Largo has posted some great points, the detractors have been very vociferous in their counter points. Not necessarily concise or effective, but hey, you get an A for effort.
This thread has run it's course. It's time to remove it and let people argue about different things.
Maybe we can talk about climbing? I'm interested in what's new at the Sierra Buttes. I've heard that a lot of new stuff is being done there. Anyone? Bueller?
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
sharon conglomerate central
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Brandon, don't delete this thread. We're all just humans struggling with the complexities of existence. I hate it when threads are deleted. It's f*#king silly.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Brandon, don't remove it dude.
We all have to live together, everyone is entitled to their own opinions.
Who really cares if two dudes or two chicks get married? They're not f*cking you. They will pay the same taxes as you. They're not going to make straight marriage illegal. Some people aren't comfortable around homo's. Deal with it, they're human too.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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It's time to remove it and let people argue about different things.
Brandon, haven't you figured out by now that it doesn't matter what is
being argued? It's all about the journey, not the destination, Grasshopper.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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You read the dross on this thread and you wonder: What do people really want? To be right? Sure. To feel like things are knowable, and to remove the grey areas with certain, definitive answers? Probably. To defend their own tenuous positions? We all do that.
I think truth is pretty low down on the scale. And I also think dishonesty is rampant here - meaning people posit opinions and beliefs as simple facts without knowing any such thing.
For instance, imagine if someone could verify, without a shadow of a doubt, that being queer was either totally Nature, or totally Nurture. And everyone had to vote without knowing the answer. If you were wrong, you die. If correct, you get a million bones.
How many would vote for nurture? Meaing that sexaul orientation is totally our own conscious choice. For instance, if Fruity wants to go plough Marlow, say, and decides that the Wild Side is what's happening, he can simply decide to do so and never mind what his instinctual impulses tell him. They are not operate here. It's what he decides. Right?
They did this thought experiment with the OJ trail many years ago, with all those folk "certain" OJ was innocent. But when it came time to bet your life on it, the flanker might have been guilty after all . . .
Same here. People just sound off with stuff they don't even believe - at least not willing to bet there life on it. Can't blame them, but why insist that you "know?" Makes a liar out of otherwise decent but quite possibly aging (rapidly) folk.
JL
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I have no clue to the answer of nature/nuture, but rather I find the question obsolete. Whether I was born loving the mountains or I found a mountain community... it's where I am. The path is secondary to the location. Maybe some would attach shame to the idea of someone choosing to be homosexual, as if there were anything wrong with that.
That's the problem. The idea that it matters which is right.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
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They will pay the same taxes as you.
If I were gay and married to a dude, that wouldn't be true.
That was the whole premise of DOMA going to the Supreme Court.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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JL, I would not bet my life on anything without knowing at least a guess about the odds of winning or losing. The idea of voting when someone else knows the truth but won't tell me is sort of stupid. I would vote to kill that guy instead.
Dave
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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And you found your peace Blue. That's fine.
Don't tread on other people's peace. If being a man, in love with another is what makes someone most happy, let them.
If two women want to raise a child, let them. I know one who was raised his who life with two mothers, he's fine, for the most part.
I know another who I was really close friends with who's mom would sleep around with any dude that paid attention to her, but when she decided to go lesbian, she committed to one partner, and they've been together ever since. That child, my friend, isn't damaged by the gay.
They will pay the same taxes as you.
If I were gay and married to a dude, that wouldn't be true.
That was the whole premise of DOMA going to the Supreme Court.
DOMA was ruled unconstitutional.
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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If I were gay and married to a dude, that wouldn't be true.
Can you elaborate? I assumed that a married gay couple would get the same stupid marriage tax penalty that I get being married to a person of the opposite sex.
Do current civil unions not cause people to have a tax penalty? I think that there is discrimination against straights inf that is true.
Stupid tax laws. Someone always pays less than me.
Dave
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2013 - 08:23pm PT
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To the best of my knowledge, the DOMA suit was brought by a woman who had to pay $300k +- in estate taxes when her spouse died. She was legally married in NY State, but since the Federal Government didn't acknowledge her marriage, she was subject to federal estate laws as a single woman.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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that is correct
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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To the best of my knowledge, the DOMA suit was brought by a woman who had to pay $300k +- in estate taxes when her spouse died. She was legally married in NY State, but since the Federal Government didn't acknowledge her marriage, she was subject to federal estate laws as a single woman.
And now she's gonna be back to baller status.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2013 - 08:37pm PT
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Nope. The change of legality isn't retroactive. Again, to the best of my knowledge.
I'd be stoked if I were wrong, but I don't think I am.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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You get a tax penalty for being married? Can't wait to tell the gf!
bluebawler, sounds like you had some difficult and confusing times in your past. I'm glad you (think) you have found something that makes sense and fills that hole, even if it is the 5000 year old silly jibberish of desert wanderers.
There is plenty of evidence pointing to Jesus being gay.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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JL, I would not bet my life on anything without knowing at least a guess about the odds of winning or losing.
That's not the bet. You want a sure outcome, whereas the game is to go entirely based on what you feel is true. Knowing the odds is cheating, and if you have to shoot the betmaker, you're simply not one of strong convictions, but like to play the safe odds. Pretty normal, really.
And it's not about being wrong or right per the nature or nurture question, it's about finding out what is true, if there is such an answer.
My sense of this is, based on being around scands of gay folk in the lit and entertainment field, is that a genuine fruit is born that way. That's what they all say. Or what I've heard in passing, anyhow. A bisexual, often mistrusted by gay people, is commonly viewed as a kind of any-port-in-a-storm fencde sitter. But these are wrinkles I am only slightly knowledgable about. Never studied it.
But it does make me curious just how correct folks are who swear gays simply decide their orientation - saying this is a meaningless question in no wise makes the question go away. That's magical thinking. I don't know a single gay person who has ever said thy choose to be gay, given the rejection and shame. But again, I'm no kind of expert. Just guessing like most everyone else.
JL
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Sounds like another good reason to get rid of the estate tax.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Hankster, it WAS a non-issue (as far as I know) UNTIL the bible thumping homophobes started pushing sh#t like DOMA and Prop 8.
You mean death tax Chaz.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Hank, it sure ought to be a non-issue. But just think back to the last election campaign when the then-frontrunner for her party's nomination said that gay marriage was the most important issue facing the country.
How do you even begin to have a rational conversation with someone like that?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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when the then-frontrunner for her party's nomination said that gay marriage was the most important issue facing the country.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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I'd hit that ^
I have a thing for crazy bitches.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Largo said My sense of this is, based on being around scands of gay folk in the lit and entertainment field, is that a genuine fruit is born that way. That's what they all say. Or what I've heard in passing, anyhow. A bisexual, often mistrusted by gay people, is commonly viewed as a kind of any-port-in-a-storm fencde sitter. But these are wrinkles I am only slightly knowledgable about. Never studied it.
I think that viewpoint is a bit antiquated. The LGBT community refers to itself as such because it is embracing all 4. They are saying that gender identity and sexual attraction are varied and acceptable.
I'd hit that ^
I have a thing for crazy bitches.
Probably want to take it easy on the misogyny in the anti-gaysogyny thread.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Number 1 I didnt choose my sexual interests. They kinda snuck up on me and I just started chasing girls around the playground and being a nuisance. Later on in my teens I got so damn horney all the time I'd screw a hole in the wall.. yeah I tried it..and a whole lot of other things. American pie and all that shizz.. lol
If I'm hungry I'm hungry. I didn't choose to be hungry.
Some things are beyond choice. I see no reason to doubt a person saying their interests are not choice. How much is nature how much is nurture... probably about as much as the hairstyle I happen to prefer. Just guessin.. I know what I like but why I like it seems hardwired mostly with MINOR adjustment based on exposure. If I'm hungry my preference for steak or turkey may be choice or nurture.. but the fact that I'm not interested in Dirt seems hardwired. Apparently I don't have much earthworm DNA.
However as a male Human being I do have over half the set of Female Human DNA. It does not strike me as odd that some percentage humans have the opposite sexes sexual appetites.
Now for the actual important part.
Folks have a right to do whatever the f*#k they want if it ain't hurting no one and it is consensual. Choice no choice.. who gives a damn. GOD? Perhaps but that's his business and I ain't here pretending to speak for the king.. let him speak for himself.
In the USA where it is illegal to impose any religious belief on another person....No one has a right to more privileges than anyone else.
If any law says otherwise that law is wrong.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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^^^^^
Bingo!
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Josh Nash
Social climber
riverbank ca
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I'm surprised the polygamists aren't thrilled with this ruling. Muslims and Mormons now have the legal footing to marry as many wives as they want.
Here's my concern with the law. How long until there are lawsuits that force churches who don't condone same sex marriage to marry gay couples? That's going to happen. To me that seems just as wrong as not allowing any legal rights to couples that have spent a life time together.
I'm a Christian in a secular society. I believe that every single one of us has iniquities. Every single one of us has a tough road. It's not my place to judge. The life you lead has consequences no matter what. I just want to be kind, understanding, empathetic. To show the love of God through my life and not my judging, accusing, loud mouth proselytizing. Did Jesus really concern himself with what policies Rome was enacting? On a tangent the only time in the bible that the big j-man got angry was at the money changers. Did he get mad at the prostitute? Did he get mad at the faithful doubters? Did he get mad at the adulterer? Did he even get mad at the one who sold him out for money in hand? No. He got livid at the people turning a profit in the temple.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Sorry if someone was offended by my use of the word, Fruit. The gays I've been around at work have the richest vocabulary for gay stuff and it's hilarious to hear, from Sissy Bars to Nancy Boys and Fruits to (fill in the gaps). Seems to take the curse off the whole thing when humor's attached, but tastes differ.
JL
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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But I got a chuckle off this one...
if Fruity wants to go plough Marlow, say, and decides that the Wild Side is what's happening, he can simply decide to do so and never mind what his instinctual impulses tell him
Chuckles. ;)
Because my own "instinctual impulses" have always been very strongly heterosexual (boy on girl, yummy), I'm not surprised or apologetic for also having a feeling, or feelings, of distaste even a yuck factor in the opposite; but here's the difference - I'd never think of legislating against it - if I were part of a majority electorate - because I am 21st century informed - not by an antiquated theology - but by my biology education in addition to general life experience - all of which has clearly shown me it's in in our nature (makeup, circuitry and such).
ps, maybe some of you attributing a lot of the hate to "repressed homosexual urges" might be watching too much American Beauty or some such. There's a great deal more to it - the hate, repugnance or distaste - than this, I'd say.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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I'm surprised the polygamists aren't thrilled with this ruling. Muslims and Mormons now have the legal footing to marry as many wives as they want.
Perhaps you mean FLDS rather than Mormon, Josh. Polygamy has been forbidden to Mormons, by church mandate, since the late 19th century.
Often, careless journalism and hearsay lumps the two...FLDS do not self-identify as Mormons, Mormons do not regard the FLDS as cousin Mormons. In doctrine and practice, the FLDS have wandered substantially from mormon articles of faith.
The discussion isn't about polygamy...so some will deem this nitpicky. But I think characterizing twenty-first century Mormons as "polygamists" or as a people poised to retrogress back to polygamous living is, with your forberarance, WAY wide of the mark...
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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How long until there are lawsuits that force churches who don't condone same sex marriage to marry gay couples? That's going to happen.
Bullshit! You idiots need to stop acting like you are forced to do ANYTHING in your churches. As far as I can tell, the only thing you are forced to do in your church is not bugger children... and that still doesn't stop you. Hell, your church doesn't even pay taxes despite using income to promote your stupid fairy tales and brainwash people.
(Sully, so sorry to see those "-" in there. Have you considered a tutor?)
Polygamy has been forbidden to Mormons, by church mandate, since the late 19th century.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "profit" of the Moron Chrutch had a "vision" from god (or a salamander or something) that polygamy was no longer part of the chrutch doctrine. Didn't that happen shortly after federal laws were passed to punish polygamists (1870) and shortly before being granted statehood?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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++
Can't get better marks than straight A, Sullly.
Are you going to suggest he write his valedictory address early? The last weeks of senior year can be maxed and frenetic...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2013 - 08:09pm PT
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I'm pretty stoked on the level of support this thread has had.
As a sometimes macho, competitive bunch, many climbers here are showing great compassion for people who don't always fit into their social groups.*
I applaud that.
Have you listened to the song in the OP? I like it.
Maybe I'm just biased toward thinking that Largos a cool guy, but I've really appreciated his words. Chapeau.
*I'm not trying to over generalize people, so don't over think it.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Where did Farouk go?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "profit" of the Moron Chrutch had a "vision" from god (or a salamander or something) that polygamy was no longer part of the chrutch doctrine. Didn't that happen shortly after federal laws were passed to punish polygamists (1870) and shortly before being granted statehood?
If you're persuing dates, Wes...the Woodruff Manifesto ending LDS polygamy became authoritative and binding on October 6, 1890. Utah became a state Januuary 4, 1896.
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High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
Potemkin Village
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re: "homophobia"
Okay, here's one to consider...
Say you're a college student, live off campus, already have one housemate and you're in search of a second housemate (say to replace the second that's graduating early and moving out) to share expenses, companionship, party times and down times, all hopefully good times and such. You discuss the matter with your existing housemate and, as part of the whole consideration, you guys decide you'd prefer a third housemate who was heterosexual - not homosexual- and that in fact you'd prefer it strongly enough to include this housemate "requirement" (in addition to others, eg, cleanliness, nonsmoker, etc.) in the written notices you're going to be putting up around campus and in your and your housemate's departments. So does this preference - either in thought or in written form as a housemate requirement - mean you and your current housemate are "homophobic"?
Oh, forgot to mention our hypothetical is in san francisco where it might matter more than in other areas. Actually, on second thought, the tactful way would be to simply not cite this "requirement" at all in the notice. But still the preference exists and so too the question: would this preference for a hetero housemate be "homophobic"?
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Simple answer Dont say it in print... just weed out the gays who apply if they show up.. I mean everyone has infallible GAYDAR don't they?
While they are at it they can weed out the niggers and spics and chicks.
There is never a need to be explicitly biggotted if one is clever. You did say that these bigots were in college didn't you?
Ask the great RAYGUN how it's done. That southern strategy was BRILLIANT!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Here's my concern with the law. How long until there are lawsuits that force churches who don't condone same sex marriage to marry gay couples? That's going to happen. To me that seems just as wrong as not allowing any legal rights to couples that have spent a life time together.
Only if you think being gay is a sin. Change "gay" for "black." See if any of that makes sense.
But trust me... LBGT don't want people officiating their weddings who don't want them married. No one does.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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If you're persuing dates, Wes...the Woodruff Manifesto ending LDS polygamy became authoritative and binding on October 6, 1890.
Right, so shortly after federal legislation punishing polygamy was passed.
Thank god God stepped in with that revelation... or followers would have been faced with a choice... live by the word of the law or live by the word of some snake-oil salesman who sold idiots a huge load of sh#t, uh, I mean holy scriptures... all for the low low price of 10% of your income.
Christ I hate religious bullsh#t.
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Gene
climber
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would this preference for a hetero housemate be "homophobic"? Great question.
Here’s my take. Let’s stipulate that you and your current roommate are renting the apartment/house from a third party and that you are in your 20s or 30s. Basically, you are looking for someone to share the place with and share the expenses of occupancy. You get an application from a dude in his 70s. It’s obvious that this guy would not be a compatible roommate. Are you discriminating based on age? Nope.
An otherwise compatible roommate just got divorced and wants his kids to spend every other weekend at the your flat. That obviously ain’t gonna work. Are you discriminating?
What if the applicant is a “fill in the blank?”
If you are a landlord and have a vacant unit and refuse to rent to any of the above, you’re might be asking for trouble.
In my uninformed opinion, a different standard applies to denying occupancy to a roommate and to a tenant of a separate living unit.
Depends.
That make sense?
g
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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I thought it was just the landlord who could not discriminate against "fill in the blanks." Pretty sure housemates can choose who lives there with them based on whatever they want, as long as it doesn't violate the rental agreement obviously.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Right, so shortly after federal legislation punishing polygamy was passed.
Thank god God stepped in with that revelation... or followers would have been faced with a choice... live by the word of the law or live by the word of some snake-oil salesman who sold idiots a huge load of sh#t, uh, I mean holy scriptures... all for the low low price of 10% of your income.
The Morrill Act prohibiting polygamy in the territories passed in 1862. Do you consider 1890 as "shortly after" 1862?
I hate religious bullsh#t.
What a suprise, Wes!...and I thought an upshot of this thread might be not consuming oneself with hate
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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all else aside, what do animals, particularly dogs f*#king other dogs of the same sex got to do with it? as if that makes it normal! dogs f*#k their brothers, sisters, mothers and grandmothers and lick their grandfathers balls and ass, so should we also? so what's with these draconian insest laws? i think they've been around a way to long (lke, they're even in the bible, how lame can ya get?)dogs f*#k 4-6 month old puppies, if ya let them. so why can't we f*#k juveniles? dogs run up and hump our legs, so should we hump them also? dogs run up and smell and lick our crotches and asses, so why can't we do likewise with them in public? WTF is it with these bestiality laws? the're in the bible also, they must be wrong. yeah, burn the bible, burn all the law. do as you will. i think i will go lick my neighbors sheep dogs ass. maybe f*#k it. hey, why not? i think i'm in love with it. or maybe its just lust, so whose to say? it must be "normal", dogs don it!!!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
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all else aside, what do animals, particularly dogs f*#king other dogs of the same sex got to do with it. dogs f*#k their brothers, sisters, mothers and grandmothers and lick their grandfathers balls and ass, so should we also?
The animal comments were directed at John M, who stated early on in the thread that the things you write of don't happen outside the human race.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Wes,
I believe that any renters including the sub renter boys in this instance have to comply with the anti discrimination laws as the legislation stipulates legal possession of the premises rather than ownership per se.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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@DMT
yeah, but dogs do it (incest/have sex with their siblings and parents, etc). they (public schools) should teach that it's OK for us to do so. i mean, that has been the rational of this discussion, so far, hasn't it(DOGS DO IT, SO WHY CAN'T WE?)!!!
Burn the Bible, it's "evil"...dumb f*#ks!!!!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
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i mean, that has been the rational of this discussion, so far, hasn't it(DOGS DO IT, SO WHY CAN'T WE?)!!!
Sorry, but your reading comprehension is really poor.
That has not been the rationale of this discussion.
Read upthread for the rationale as to why animals have been discussed.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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@DMT - i ain't worrying sh#t about dog sex (or my spelling) i was simply addressing some of the folks on here who seme to think that because animals do something it's "normal" people should be allowed to do it also. so, therefore, anything animals do, particularly dogs, should be considered normal...PERIOD! THAT, is the logic behind bringing animals/dogs into the equasion (sp).
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Brandon, you guys are missing my point. at the very beggining of my 1st post, i said "all else aside". i was merely addressing the "dogs do it" aspect of this thread!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
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Hey man, John M brought up the incorrect opinion that only humans engage in gay sex. The rest has been refutation of that statement.
Capice?
But maybe you only hear what you want to hear.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Ha, nice try Jennie.
Just realized... LDS Crotch v. United States was May 1890. The Crotch was disincorporated and money was seized. Shortly after your profit heard voices in his head that said polygamy is no longer part of your "official" doctrine. Such stoopid sh#t.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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DMT - Maybe if you actually MAKE a point, we might understand it. BobLoblaw - This is a completely ignorant statement. Homosexual sex is pretty comon in nature, particularly among other primate species... etc, etc.!
my very simple point, what dogs do (someone else, DR. Christ, pointed out how his dogs f*#k each other, etc, along with a couple of other examples from other peeps) should not set the standard for what people do. if it holds any water, then we should be free to do all the absurd things i mentioned up thread, since dogs/animals do it (imo, there are many folks that would argue otherwise in or society).
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2013 - 10:27pm PT
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You're not making any sense.
Please, refer to my above comment on why this was being discussed.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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DMT, i was just making a simple point. so yep, i got a handle on it...i'm OK now. lol
btw, give them (SC) a few more years...anything is possible.
and, FWIW, regarding X'ians, God will deal with them/us 1st, before He cracks down on the US, etc! we have become way to much like the world. read about elijah, ahab (king of israel) and particularly jezibel (wicked queen of israel). the jezibel spirit is alive and well. not only in amurica, but in the Church. THAT is what God is pissed-off about. read just one short chapter, one page or so (II Kings 18), it will give you an idea how things will transpire for the Church (the world will end up doing whatever it damn well pleases).
Brandon - i haven't read the whole thread, was just comenting on what a few peeps were claiming as proof positive, or whatever. i thought i made that clear with my declaration of "all else aside"...
"making a point out of context" ... well, that was my point. it shouldn't be brought into the subject/context of the discussion. because there are plenty of people that will argue otherwise, to some extent (that it is natural because its found in nature). if that premise is true, then all else should be considered natural, since it is found in nature. that is what the "biologist" BobLawlaw & Dr. Christ were exclaiming as evidence, blah, blah...! Not sure what transpired in the conversation from around that point. Kinda made me sick to my stomach and didn't go any further. didn't mean to sound as if i was jumping to conclusions (if that is what it seemed like i was doing) just addressing a few folks point of view.
peace.
edit: "read II Kings 18". - oops, i meant 'I Kings 18', sorry about that. very interesting (and very short/1 page) chapter. it's about what is going to go down, sooner or later, here in amurica (regarding the Church).
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 3, 2013 - 10:51pm PT
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You were making a point out of context and you didn't know it.
It's cool, I forgive you.
Maybe read the thread before you jump in next time?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Ha, nice try Jennie.
Just realized... LDS Crotch v. United States was May 1890. The Crotch was disincorporated and money was seized. Shortly profit heard voices in his head that said polygamy is no longer part of your "official" after your doctrine. Such stoopid sh#t.
The church was disincorporated in in 1862 as part of the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act ...and again later in 1887 the Edmunds-Tucker Act. So why not in 1862 or 1887?.
You're saying the intimidator's fist was the only reason for the Woodruff Manifesto...but looking past the sociological perspective. In the 1850's nearly 25% of mormon marriages in Utah were polygamous...by 1890 the proportion had dropped to about 5%.
The majority of women arriving from mission fields declined. Polygamy ceased to be numerically feasible. The church wanted as many male members to marry as possible. Several church authorities had expressed concern of a "shortage of brides".
The future of polygamy in Utah was simply not viable as the turn of the century approached. Mormons wanted a nation of their own but "manifest destiny" and federal possession vetoed that. Why fight another war with the federal menace when the institution of Mormon polygamy was about to expire anyway?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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The church was disincorporated in in 1862 as part of the Morrill Anti-Bigamy Act ...and again later in 1887 the Edmunds-Tucker Act. So why not in 1862 or 1887?.
Because they didn't seize any money?
Either that or your god is a lazy ass who doesn't know sh#t about what is going on down here.
Several church authorities had expressed concern of a "shortage of brides".
Did they try praying for more women?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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I have to ask because you seem to know a lot about this
Jennie, are you a Mormon?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Hi, Norton...
Yes, I'm mormon.
If I ever get my doctrate please please remind me to take the doctoral tam off my head and let rays of sunlight shine into the crack :-)
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Thanks DMT :-)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Poignant on this day are some quotes from wise old crusty white guys (who gave us our country and laws);
[D]emocracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man’s life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will and the execrable cruelty of one or a very few. (John Adams, An Essay on Man’s Lust for Power)
No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders. (Samuel Adams to James Warren, 1775)
Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks — no form of government can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men. So that we do not depend on their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them. (James Madison, Virginia Ratifying Convention)
Smart guys who saw faith and virtue as keys to a moral, civil society that could self-govern.
God bless America, and our wise, old Founders. But you all are so smart now, we should change sh#t up.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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How many had slaves?
heh.
Go America! Let's make it awesome. Home of the free land of the brave.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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How many had slaves?
heh.
Go America! Let's make it awesome. Home of the free land of the brave.
Good point, but read their words. Do you understand THEIR point? About immorality and tyranny?
I understand times change and societies 'evolve'. But should we not have everlasting common-denominators? Basic rules? Laws? Ethics? Morality?
I believe we should, and that's what makes us strong. Weaken that line and you weaken our society. That is 'their' goal. They are persistent.
That is how you destroy a super-power.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Forget the past. Take the collective consciousness of everyone's voice. THAT'S democracy.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Forget the past. Take the collective consciousness of everyone's voice. THAT'S democracy.
Um, no. If the majority votes for gov't subsidies and foodstamps, we are doomed.
A majority is not an authority. People are stupid, especially now! This is why a democracy cannot work. Our Founders knew that.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 02:05pm PT
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Happy Birthday America!
You're doing great!
Ignore those who want to limit freedom, most of us still love you!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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GEEZ. Peeps lashing out about slavery on a homo thread? HOW QUEER!
As if the Founders of this great nation started slavery. When it was they who abolished it.
Spearheaded by none other than a Christian. This precedents caused many more nations
to free their slaves. Sad thing is slavery still goes on today in Africa. Blacks owning blacks.
Now let's get back to the op topic of buttplugs, blue ones, and green ones and yellow ones
and purple ones. Oh my!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Yes many of them pondered this perplexing problem from the porches of their plantation homes, whilst gazing over their fields tended by their slaves.
"Democracy will lead to all sorts of problems."
DMT
Do you really believe that? People will always, ignorantly, vote themselves a raise without realizing the repercussions of that money spent, or taken from.
This is where we're at. We have fallen down.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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It comes down to one's definition of what is immoral.
It's real simple: If it doesn't hurt anyone, it's not immoral.
Gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone.
Is abortion immoral? Can you redefine everything to suit your "morality".
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Is abortion immoral? Can you redefine everything to suit your "morality".
Wait, did you compare homosexuality to aborting fetus'? I wonder how the LBGT's feel about that... just like the argument that dictates "now people will marry their dog," we should compare apples to apples. Not logical fallacies comparing consensual human behavior with beastiality.
As per Hank and Jebus... you are both arguing seperate points. Hank is saying that it is a non-issue, and I tend to agree with Jebus - that it isn't the singular issue but the greater issue of social intolerance of homosexual behavior that goes back 10,000 years. Often we see the Law, socially, dictates what the common person deems 'moral.' Watch how many moms and dads smoke weed when it's legal. In the same sense, condoning gay marriage is a step in saying "it's OK to be who you are." Unfortunately we live in a world where, if you are gay, you were VERY likely bullied, disenfranchised from your family, and roundly misunderstood at best.
Is the point of equalization marriage? ABSOLUTELY not. It should not stop there. But it is a start in the world recognizing a group that has been killed, chased out, hated and mistreated for thousands of years. If you don't get that, there is a disconnect in the causality of the collective interpretation of homosexuality.
Or something.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Of course. Morality is a human invention. We can reinvent it and have, a million times over. We will continue to do so, too.
DMT
Uh, no. It's based on virtue. Right vs wrong.
Broad brush. I know you like it so when you get painted with it. So it makes sense you do it to others.
People... they're the worst. And democracy has failed you. And now the leisure class is going to tax your capital gains and live in McMansions out in Blackhawk. In gated gay foodstamp communities, how you like that???
DMT
Who's using the broad brush??? Ever hear of the tax-bearing middle-class? Me.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
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Uh, no. It's based on virtue. Right vs wrong.
Totally.
Discrimination is wrong and equal rights for all people is right.
Finally, we agree. Was that so difficult?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Gay marriage doesn't hurt anyone.
Not only them selves. It is a medical fact that anal sex hurts the colon. But I'm sur science will fix that.
But what about the innocent little children that we are handing over to them under the guise of being "married"? I know if I woke up between two men when I was adopted at 4 yro. I would have said; WHAT THE F*#K!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'd need more counseling than I already do! Which will come from the tax payers..
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Not only them selves. It is a medical fact that anal sex hurts the colon.
You know, anal sex isn't unique to the Gay community.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 02:32pm PT
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It is a medical fact that anal sex hurts the colon.
I'd be willing to bet that more women like getting in the butt than men.
It's pretty common.
Just sayin'.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Is the point of equalization marriage? ABSOLUTELY not. It should not stop there. But it is a start in the world recognizing a group that has been killed, chased out, hated and mistreated for thousands of years. If you don't get that, there is a disconnect in the causality of the collective interpretation of homosexuality.
Funny how I get painted as the homophobe all the time.
I think it's time to get the State out of marriage, just after we reform the IRS. Leave marriage a function of the church. Let civil-unions be done by the city. They ALL get the same rights.
Is that so hard?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Discrimination is wrong and equal rights for all people is right.
Discrimination is necessary. Why can't idiots like you liberals see that? So is "profiling".
If you don't discriminate or profile people, you are weak or stupid. Or both!
You have to profile people, or discriminate, on who you'll interact with to stay from danger. It's common f*#king sense!!!!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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the church.
which one is that? I don't go to any of them that don't administer psychedelics.
I wasn't calling you a homophobe, and honestly I don't think you are one. I think pulling the race/homophobe card out is trite.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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which one is that? I don't go to any of them that don't administer psychedelics.
I wasn't calling you a homophobe, and honestly I don't think you are one. I think pulling the race/homophobe card out is trite.
No church specifically, but faith in general. It's up to you, is the point.
So you understand why you get profiled here, then. Enjoy!
DMT
Yeah. And I have no f*#king problem with it.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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but faith in general.
I don't have any faith, that word is silly :)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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You'll find it, Greg. Don't look for it, it'll find you.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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You can mock me, Greg. It's fine....
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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It's fun*
:)
I love you bud. That's why I tease ya.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Greg, you know me. I am very serious.
Sometimes I jest, But sometimes I kid not.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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I say take it up with HaShem Adonai Elohim -- G-d. And Good luck on that. He's not changing his mind or his Torah (instruction). He said don't do it.
Those of you behind the gay agenda will bring judgement from G-d to our Nation. Every Nation/Civilization that went this way is no more. Destroyed. In ruin. Poof. Gone.
Sin has consequences. The sin of a Nation can take the Nation down to ruin.
Don't do it.
http://christianity.about.com/od/Bible-Verses/a/Bible-Verses-Homosexuality.htm
Bible Verses About Homosexuality
Genesis 19:1-11
That evening the two angels came to the entrance of the city of Sodom. Lot was sitting there, and when he saw them, he stood up to meet them. Then he welcomed them and bowed with his face to the ground. "My lords," he said, "come to my home to wash your feet, and be my guests for the night. You may then get up early in the morning and be on your way again." "Oh no," they replied. "We'll just spend the night out here in the city square." But Lot insisted, so at last they went home with him. Lot prepared a feast for them, complete with fresh bread made without yeast, and they ate. But before they retired for the night, all the men of Sodom, young and old, came from all over the city and surrounded the house. They shouted to Lot, "Where are the men who came to spend the night with you? Bring them out to us so we can have sex with them!"
So Lot stepped outside to talk to them, shutting the door behind him. "Please, my brothers," he begged, "don't do such a wicked thing. Look, I have two virgin daughters. Let me bring them out to you, and you can do with them as you wish. But please, leave these men alone, for they are my guests and are under my protection."
"Stand back!" they shouted. "This fellow came to town as an outsider, and now he's acting like our judge! We'll treat you far worse than those other men!" And they lunged toward Lot to break down the door. But the two angels reached out, pulled Lot into the house, and bolted the door. Then they blinded all the men, young and old, who were at the door of the house, so they gave up trying to get inside. (NLT)
Leviticus 18:22
"Do not practice homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman. It is a detestable sin." (NLT)
Leviticus 20:13
"If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act. They must both be put to death, for they are guilty of a capital offense." (NLT)
Judges 19:16-24
That evening an old man came home from his work in the fields. He was from the hill country of Ephraim, but he was living in Gibeah, where the people were from the tribe of Benjamin. When he saw the travelers sitting in the town square, he asked them where they were from and where they were going.
"We have been in Bethlehem in Judah," the man replied. "We are on our way to a remote area in the hill country of Ephraim, which is my home. I traveled to Bethlehem, and now I'm returning home. But no one has taken us in for the night, even though we have everything we need. We have straw and feed for our donkeys and plenty of bread and wine for ourselves."
"You are welcome to stay with me," the old man said. "I will give you anything you might need. But whatever you do, don't spend the night in the square." So he took them home with him and fed the donkeys. After they washed their feet, they ate and drank together. While they were enjoying themselves, a crowd of troublemakers from the town surrounded the house. They began beating at the door and shouting to the old man, "Bring out the man who is staying with you so we can have sex with him." The old man stepped outside to talk to them. "No, my brothers, don't do such an evil thing. For this man is a guest in my house, and such a thing would be shameful. Here, take my virgin daughter and this man's concubine. I will bring them out to you, and you can abuse them and do whatever you like. But don't do such a shameful thing to this man." (NLT)
1 Kings 14:24
And there were also male cult prostitutes in the land. They did according to all the abominations of the nations that the LORD drove out before the people of Israel. (ESV)
1 Kings 15:12
He put away the male cult prostitutes out of the land and removed all the idols that his fathers had made. (ESV)
2 Kings 23:7
He also tore down the living quarters of the male and female shrine prostitutes that were inside the Temple of the LORD, where the women wove coverings for the Asherah pole. (NLT)
Romans 1:18-32
But God shows his anger from heaven against all sinful, wicked people who suppress the truth by their wickedness.... Yes, they knew God, but they wouldn't worship him as God or even give him thanks. And they began to think up foolish ideas of what God was like. As a result, their minds became dark and confused. Claiming to be wise, they instead became utter fools. And instead of worshiping the glorious, ever-living God, they worshiped idols made to look like mere people and birds and animals and reptiles.
So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other's bodies. They traded the truth about God for a lie. So they worshiped and served the things God created instead of the Creator himself, who is worthy of eternal praise! Amen.
That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other. And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved.
Since they thought it foolish to acknowledge God, he abandoned them to their foolish thinking and let them do things that should never be done. Their lives became full of every kind of wickedness, sin, greed, hate, envy, murder, quarreling, deception, malicious behavior, and gossip. They are backstabbers, haters of God, insolent, proud, and boastful. They invent new ways of sinning, and they disobey their parents. They refuse to understand, break their promises, are heartless, and have no mercy. They know God's justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too. (NLT)
1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people-none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. (NLT)
1 Timothy 1:8-10
Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers, the sexually immoral, men who practice homosexuality, enslavers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound doctrine ... (ESV)
Jude 7
And don't forget Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighboring towns, which were filled with immorality and every kind of sexual perversion. Those cities were destroyed by fire and serve as a warning of the eternal fire of God's judgment. (NIV)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Thanks Klimmer for elevating the discussion.
Don't worry, wasn't going to leave that up for long.
:)
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Once the "We are gonna have another Sodom and Gamorha" argument creeps up I realize I'm talking to crazy people :)
Willful ignorance just makes me want to tease people... I'm such a bad boy ya know.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 05:20pm PT
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Yeah, we are talking to crazy people.
I'm going to delete my mass of posts now.
Just so you know, Klimmer (I think) photo bombed the thread. I posted simply to move it to the next page and let the conversation continue.
Carry on.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Those of you behind the gay agenda will bring judgement from G-d to our Nation. So Klimmer when did you move to Westburough?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
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What's G-d ?
And the wrath you speak of doesn't exist.
Even if it did, it wouldn't be allowed to hold sway in our government.
So basically, you and your orthodox brethren lose.
Love, and the will of the people, wins.
Yay America!
Land of the free and the home of the brave.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
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Sorry Klimmer, I put blame on you and it wasn't you.
My apologies.
I still strongly disagree with you though.
I believe that acceptance of all people is correct.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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FWIW, the thing about S&G is, that God/Jesus said if He didn't judge Jerusalem (which fell in 70AD) that He would have to forgive S&G, "For there is Someone much greater here." (than what S&G had...simply their consciences). they had no bible, etc! we have had it all, plenty of bibles, churches and testimony...all falling on deaf ears. say what you wuill, but judgement will come. but, first too the Church, which has become much to like the world.
read II Chronicles 7:14! it is the church that He calls on to "repent from your wicked ways and i will heal your land."
i got a very heavy revelation about 8 years ago. i went to this church for about 8-10 weeks, not gonna tell the whole story, but it ended with this, and for good reasons. I was sitting in my bedroom at 7:00 am waiting to go to church. i had decided that it would be my last day there, but said a prayer in regards to His will. what came out wasn't a prayer, but a bible verse that i did not know. to this very day i have to look it up if i want to repeat it (i'm bad at memorizing anything).
it was II Chronicles 7:14. i was pretty baffled, since it was NOT* coming from memory or my desire to say/pray it. i never, recieted bible verses in prayer.
anyway, i went to this church (a very well known/born again believer church) at 8:00am for the first service (i think it started at 8:30). so, pastor, who was extremely good at preaching imo, but something was missing. this very smooth, cool, calm and collected pastor, of about 48 years old at the time, comes out and is looking really shook up, totally out of character. he was actually shaking uncontroliblly. He goes on to say something like this, "You know that I never get heavy with you. That I mainly tell you positive things that will bless and comfort you." my words/paraphrase, but essentially what he said.
he then says, "But, something so horrifying happened to me at exactly 7:00 am this morning when I kneeled down to pray about the sermon this morning. I can't even begin to tell you what happened. I wasn't even going to come too church this morning it was so shocking. But the deacons and elders calmed me down and encouraged me to come. So here I am."
He then quoted "II Chronicles 7:14 and then stated, in a defiant voice, "There, I said it!" and then proceeded to calmly give his prepared sermon.
edite: *forgot "not"!
Dr. Christ - it is way to late for that(imo), and was never meant to be imposed on anyone. it's your free will/choice. politics may change the laws, but they will not change the heart. much (or at least some, not any of the churches i know of) got way off track. so be it. believe what you will...
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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I wish idiots would stop using ancient fairy tales in an attempt to impose their moral values on others. Nobody is asking you idiots to wed a gay person... simply let those who want to get married do so. WTF is your problem?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Splitter,
I agree with you totally. The Church has to clean house and turn from its sin. And we must do so. Judgement starts at the House of G-d.
Abraham was able to plead with G-d on Lot's behalf if he could find eventually 10 righteous people in Sodom to save those people in those cities from destruction, and to save Lot and his family. He couldn't but G-d was allowing him to try and was willing to hold back his wrath.
The warning in the New Covenant also tells us that the end won't come until a great falling away occurs, an apostasy. However, it doesn't have to happen on our watch. The World-wide Church of G-d must be faithful and repent. We are the salt of the Earth and we can hold back G-d's judgement. It's about saving more souls from being lost.
2 Chronicles 7:14
King James Version (KJV)
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
http://biblehub.com/2_thessalonians/2-3.htm
2 Thess. 2:3 (KJV)
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 06:40pm PT
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Sweet. You are letting a book written thousands of years ago, rife with declarations that we (the majority of humans) now deem ridiculous, govern your life and value system.
Slavery, taking a wife through rape, etc...
Good luck with seeming credible by quoting the bible.
You're going to need it.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Silly Brandon... God didn't mean all that about owning slaves, gaining a wife through rape and/or $$, or whoreshipping idols... just the part about homosexuals and the end of time... you know, the positive stuff Jesus REALLY focused on.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Brandon,
Judaic Jewish Context. Knowledge. Wisdom. HaShem's inspiration.
You have to know what the Torah, The Tenach (Old Testament) is all about. It was all about turning around a wicked and rebellious people and making them into the chosen children of G-d. It was/is about teaching what sin is. It is the school master, the task master.
Then you have to know that G-d promised a New Covenant (New Testament) that would replace the Old Covenant (Old Testament) and one that would bring forgiveness and life. Same Torah, laws, and instruction but a new forgiveness and spiritual life would be possible through the final and last sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins for eternity, through the blood of Yeshua HaMashiach, Jesus the Messiah that was shed for you and me. It would do away with the curse (immediate punishment and death) of the Old Covenant (Old Testament).
HaShem Adonai Elohim was now to live in the hearts of man, The New Temple of G-d, and not within the Golden Ark of the Temple in Jerusalem. That was a foreshadow of better things to come.
It doesn't do away with Torah or the Tenach, it explains it. It completes it.
Sit down with a Messianic Rabbi and have it explained. Then you won't make ignorant statements or arguments regarding the Old vs the New.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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i would have walked away from the bible and anything it claimed years ago. i didn't even open the bible the first ten years after i got saved. i didn't even go to church other than a RCC (roman catholic church) off and on (way more off than on) and learned little, if anything because the masses were all in Latin. my parents sure didn't force me to go, they rarely did. i went because i had a very real personal relationship with Christ. PERIOD. HE is who "governs my life and value system". It is He who has shown me that HIS holy word is true. He IS the Word, and the Word. Read John 1:1-14. It starts with, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." and ends with, "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
i would just as soon say nothing. even after all God has shown me. probably much more than any human being, let alone Christian. i have a very cynical attitude, nature. i went over ten years of saying absolutely nothing in the 70's. the people i new on the eastside, back then, will testify to that. many Christian drift, are like prodogal sons of sort. but i would be remiss if i didn't say something here. whatever...
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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You have to know what the Torah, The Tenach (Old Testament) is all about.
No, I promise, you don't. It is a collection of self-contradicting fairy tales from thousands of years ago that promote infanticide in the name of schizophrenia, rape in the name of matrimony, and slavery. It is even less relevant than Dianetics.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Splitter,
I know what that is like ... I was "the Prodigal Son" for many years. I came back to G-d about 9 years ago. It seems it's a common experience, and it's probably why Yeshua taught us that very important and loving parable. We can come back home and receive forgiveness and the Father's love. He knew this would happen to many.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 07:24pm PT
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Klimmer,
Perhaps I'm ignorant about your religion. I was raised Roman Catholic and confirmed. I was so involved in the church that I was an altar boy, and no, I wasn't raped, improbable as it seems.
What is your religion?
All I see is hipocricy, archaic texts being used to further whatever cause the church deems appropriate, and the demonizing of gay people.
You seem to be stuck in the past, but then again, you arrived to this discussion pretty late. Go talk about magic and miracles elsewhere, most of us are smart enough to ignore you. I'm dumb enough to react to your fairy tale words.
Tell you what, I'm going to jerk off my dog tonight, will I go to hell when I die or be smote immediately? I've got to know, because I want to wear my suit if I'm going to die immediately.
If I've got time, I'll wear casual clothes.
Do you see the level of seriousness with which I regard you, joker?
Probably not.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 07:34pm PT
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Jebus, I removed that because it wasn't a nice thing to say before you even posted it.
I'm better than that.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 4, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
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Dammit!!!
Where are we going anyway?
Oh yeah, the frigging moon! Nice!
Thanks Klimmer!!!
We'll be sharing a berth, apparently. I hope you don't mind if I kill kittens every night. It puts me to sleep.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jesus knows all your sins B. He has the power to forgive them... but will do so only after you get on your knees and beg... and only after he runs out of tornadoes and terrorists.
Did I mention, the only reason you sin at all is because someone you have never met ate some fruit "from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Basically, Adam was instructed NOT to inform himself on matters of good and evil... to judge his own nakedness. Judge not... splinters in eyes... casting the first stone... and all that. You know, the principles "good" Christians adamantly adhere to when introducing legislation like DOMA and PropH8. "Trust us, we are from the church, we know the truth and word of God, who are you to judge right from wrong."
Utter bullsh#t.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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FOX news just had a show that proved that Jesus was gay and Jesus used to take it up the a*#.
No lie.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Norton,
Are you trying to put me into the young Universe, young Earth category? Because clearly I'm not. Universe approx. equals 14.7 - 14.8 B years. Our Sun, Sol equals approx. 5.0 B years. Earth approx. equals 4.56 B years.
What would you say about Aristotle? Copernicus? Tycho Brahe? Johannes Kepler? Galileo? Newton? How about Einstein?
All Men of science and men of faith (of varying degrees).
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Hi Norton...you probably know this, but I wanted to interject that most state board of educations in the U.S. mandate course fundamentals and dispense written delineation of requisite material...
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Thanks, Jim but I doubt I could get elected as a PTA secretary...
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Norton you are clueless and you don't know what you're talking about. Einstein was not an atheist.
Read PhD Gerald Schroeder, The Science of God. The Book of Nature and the Book of G-d are in agreement.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Einstein was not an atheist.
Albert Einstein: God is a Product of Human Weakness
The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this.
Letter to philosopher Eric Gutkind, January 3, 1954
It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
 Albert Einstein, letter to an atheist (1954), quoted in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas & Banesh Hoffman
During the youthful period of mankind's spiritual evolution, human fantasy created gods in man's own image who, by the operations of their will were supposed to determine, or at any rate influence, the phenomenal world.
Albert Einstein, quoted in: 2000 Years of Disbelief, James Haught
It seems to me that the idea of a personal God is an anthropological concept which I cannot take seriously. I also cannot imagine some will or goal outside the human sphere.... Science has been charged with undermining morality, but the charge is unjust. A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties and needs; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death.
Albert Einstein, "Religion and Science," New York Times Magazine, November 9, 1930
clueless? appears to be YOU, Klimmer
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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This whole conversation is moot. It's all very simple.
When you have a world governed by religious sycophants, who consistently speak about love, tolerance, and respect, but display none of those qualities, what you get is....
Drun roll please...
Intolerant, bigoted, hateful ignorant morons.
I despise the term "gay marriage". How about this, two people who love one another wish to be wed, and share in the exact same rights "normal" people enjoy...
Let us not forget that the "niggers" were not even consider "human" in this country until the mid 20th century.
That speaks volumes. Hmmm, I wonder who was behind that one...
Edited:
Acknowledging ones existence, but yet denying their basic fundemental rights is pure hypocrisy despite how you dress it up.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Ignoring the truth does not make it go away.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Love has had nothing to do with it until historically recent times and only in societies rich enough to imagine life beyond struggling to providing food, shelter and security.
Wow...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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it wouldnt be polite"
So would that be a moral?
Or just the moral of the story?
I had to write something.. Nortons antibible bill is gett'in old
Norton, what does Einstein have to do with a homosexual thread anyway?
Was einstein gay?
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Wow...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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That speaks volumes. Hmmm, I wonder who was behind that one...
Hmmm, please inlighten us!
I don't think you know to much about religion, and who's governing who.
You should know who ur enemy is before you start lobb'in handgrenades.
War is futile if you don't know who ur enemy is..
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^ now that was way homo. Thank You
Edit: SORRY; was that the wrong word to use? I meant "queer". ( Without any hateful ramifications. )
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Hmmm, please inlighten us!
If you need to be "inlighten", spelled enlightened, then you are truly too stupid to understand the explanation.
Be a good boy and read your book of fairy tales some more...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^ HaHa!! Good One. I know i'm s-t-u-p-e-d.
(but, im not ur enemied)
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Love doesn't pay the bills...
but making love can, if you do it right.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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There are some tomes of knowledge that are deeply guarded. The government does not want you to know where they are kept, much less what they contain.
The are called books.
Try reading them, instead of eating or burning them.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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enemied???
Please translate I don't speak drunkbonics.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^HeHe! I've made some money mak'inn love.
But I had'ta quit. The bills were more than I could earn
Still use my body to make a living though..
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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SSS=Sorry So Slow
what do you mean by queer blue???
Jus the websters definition.
meaning my skirt was jus breezed.
Not blown up like Marilyn Munroes.
Or, "jus out of the ordinary"
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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eh blue?.....
are u pointing in a direction today
or R u projecting into the past
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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spiritual traditions? U mean goD? Tradition=keeping what's held?
Yes! goD is Neverchanging. But, Jesus is Everaccepting!
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drewsky
climber
Seattle
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In the homophobic group in this forum:
-Religious zealots, who despite apparently having lived in caves for decades with only the Old Testament for reading material have the ability to use Personal Computers.
-Social conservatives (see 'religious zealots')
-'Adults' whose spelling and grammar remain at kindergarten level or below (see 'religious zealots' and 'social conservatives')
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Love that website, Pat Dollard. Uninentional comedy.
The title is best - "AND SO IT BEGINS!" As if some wave of christian bloodshed is about to hit the streets.
That was hardly Brutal.
Took about 3 clicks to find a page that had anti-gun control content and the words "benghazi" and "Obamacare." Great source for newz!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
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Norton, Norton, Norton ...
We have argued this until the cows come home.
You can't say Einstein was an Atheist. I can't say Einstein was a true believer either. What we can say is that he was definitely agnostic like so many people are.
I said men of science and men of faith to varying degrees ...
Einstein would often refer to G-d. Look at all the public quotes where he admits this. Privately he would admit he doesn't believe in a personal G-d.
However, through his research and his discoveries he admitted publicly that he found an amazing order that does suggest a creator.
Did Albert Einstein Believe in a Personal God?
by Rich Deem
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html
I suppose that Einstein thought that there wasn't a personal G-d, (whatever that really means ... perhaps a G-d that lives within us), but that the physical evidence and the laws of nature pointed to the fact that there is a creator and that he cares about order at a fantastic mathematical level. Perhaps Einstein was a Deist rather than a Theist.
He was enthralled with Yeshua! You have to admit that. And well we believers know Yeshua HaMashiach (Jesus the Messiah) and The Father (Hashem, Adonai, Aba, YHVH (Yod-Hey-Vod-Hey)) are one.
Yes, it's a mystery. The triune nature of G-d is a very deep mystery.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Good thing that we all embrace tolerance;
Yep.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Love that website, Pat Dollard. Uninentional comedy.
The title is best - "AND SO IT BEGINS!" As if some wave of christian bloodshed is about to hit the streets.
That was hardly Brutal.
Took about 3 clicks to find a page that had anti-gun control content and the words "benghazi" and "Obamacare." Great source for newz!
You think you're really clever, don't ya?
It's not a 'newz' site, it's called a "blog". Opinion.
And yeah, let's downplay fags beating Christians, but heaven-forbid a Neo-Nazi beat a gay!!!!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Ron likes to speak for our military, as a brave soldier himself.
Maybe, just maybe... it isn't a big f*#king deal she changed some words at a gay pride rally. Maybe that isn't something to get worked up about :)
Yesterday at a party we had American Flag napkins. I was in the bathroom and there was no TP, and I had my plate of food with me... so I wiped my ass with an already dirty flag towlette. I wonder how our American Military feel about our flag being made into napkins?
There are no sacred pillars, just divisive issues. Real patriotism isn't a flag, it isn't a symbol, it isn't archaic fundamentals. It's striving to make your country the greatest in the world, which takes empathy and compassion, NOT dogma.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Nice one, can you show me some aborted fetus parts when we talk about women's rights next? All I see are coffins from brave men who had been lied to, all under the guise of "protecting our freedom." Bodies that never had to be there but because of our need to control the world they exist. But sure, use it to explain why you got mad at lady gaga. That makes sense.
What pisses me off is when people use images like that to push their own agenda. THAT'S the disrespectful thing.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Keep draping yourself in the flag warhawk, safe and tucked away at home.
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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the above pic, that ron posted, is of the 19 fallen firefighters that recently lost their lives.
edit: i guess it was deleted.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Greg, wiping your ass with a Star-spangled napkin is very different than publicly, and intentionally butchering the National Anthem. Would you not agree with that? Is that not sacred?
The National Anthem is something you don't sh#t on for political reasons or political statements. It is what it is, leave it alone!
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Hey at least she didn't draw a cartoon of Muhammad. What would the U.S. equivalent be, drawing Ted Nugent?
You do realize that the tune was based off an old British drinking song, long predating Francis Scott Key...
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Is [the National Anthem] not sacred?
sacred: 1. Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity. 2. Worthy of religious veneration.
NO, the National Anthem is NOT sacred you moran.
And Rong, do I understand you correctly... that our government lies to us about climate change, gun control, health care, etc but DOESN'T lie to soldiers about why exactly they are sent off to kill civilians that MIGHT be ASSOCIATED with terrorists?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Hey at least she didn't draw a cartoon of Muhammad. What would the U.S. equivalent be, drawing Ted Nugent?
Oh, the irony. There would be OUTRAGE if the piece of sh#t Muhammad was even spoke of in a bad way.
But twist the National Anthem for politics, that's cool.
And yeah, it IS sacred.
sacred: 1. Dedicated to or set apart for the worship of a deity. 2. Worthy of religious veneration.
NO, the National Anthem is NOT sacred you moran.
What is sacred to you personally?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Really blurring dumb fuk extraordinaire? You worship the National Anthem? You consider it a religious song? You are a stupid mother fuker.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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It's not even a good song. Well, maybe when Hendrix does it.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Dingus, which of your 'commandments' do you disagree with specifically?
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drewsky
climber
Seattle
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Well, the first half of the thread had at least a few good points and almost bordered on a discussion. The second half is dominated by the reptilian-brained rhetoric of the bigots. If only there was a way to cleave the thread in twain, then the 'conjoined twin' thread (more like a benign yet ugly tumor) could continue wherein Ron and Bluering talk about how America is, in fact, their favorite country...by themselves.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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^^^ Drewsky, S.O.P. for the life cycle of threads like these.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Yes DMT. And I concur with your 11 point post above.
'ceptin' i gotsa no iffn i kin ketch thet homasexural diseaz by bellyain a prancer?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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My disagreement isn't at issue here. I don't equate nationalism to religion. I did when I was younger, without realizing it. For me its not a religion. I'm pretty sure that for you, it is.
Which of those do YOU disagree with?
DMT
I disagree with none of them. And neither would the "old crusty white guys' who founded this country.
They specifically attributed the goodwill and virtue of men to religion and faith.
You don't have to though, but don't deny their thoughts.
Lisa summed it up well here, in the words of our Founders;
http://spectator.org/archives/2013/07/03/self-evident-truth
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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They were wise, those crusty old white guys...
[D]emocracy will soon degenerate into an anarchy, such an anarchy that every man will do what is right in his own eyes and no man’s life or property or reputation or liberty will be secure, and every one of these will soon mould itself into a system of subordination of all the moral virtues and intellectual abilities, all the powers of wealth, beauty, wit and science, to the wanton pleasures, the capricious will and the execrable cruelty of one or a very few. (John Adams, An Essay on Man’s Lust for Power)
No people will tamely surrender their Liberties, nor can any be easily subdued, when knowledge is diffused and Virtue is preserved. On the Contrary, when People are universally ignorant, and debauched in their Manners, they will sink under their own weight without the Aid of foreign Invaders. (Samuel Adams to James Warren, 1775)
Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks — no form of government can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea. If there be sufficient virtue and intelligence in the community, it will be exercised in the selection of these men. So that we do not depend on their virtue, or put confidence in our rulers, but in the people who are to choose them. (James Madison, Virginia Ratifying Convention)
Wise beyond their time. Where did that timeless wisdom come from, where was it learned? The Bible.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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you ignorant fukwad
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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you ignorant fukwad
Nice reply, from someone who refuses to answer a simple question. What do you hold sacred?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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My dick when I pee?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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You are ignorant fuktard blurring. What I hold sacred is between me and me... and no Greg, it is not your c*#k when you go pee.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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It's Greg :((((
edit
huh.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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hahaha... I went to school with a Gary Davis... and it weren't him.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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You are ignorant fuktard blurring. What I hold sacred is between me and me...
I can smell commies 2 miles away.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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and I can smell your pussy from here
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Wes, is there prospect that earning your doctrate might exalt posts infused with more substance and less insolence?
There's a glut of disrespect on ST, and has been for a long time. But your foul insults and lubricious name calling are way excessive.
Some institutions are wary of what their employees post online. Aren't you alert to the possibility of your department chair reading some of this hateful stuff and reflecting as to its potential effect on the university's prestige?
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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It's a thread on Gay Marriage. Don't take it too seriously.
If you stayed out of these threads, you would never see that content.
It's not like you would change your opinion regardless of information presented here, so just avoid the conversation. Jennie, myself, Wes, Bluering... we are pretty entrenched in our beliefs on this topic because of our 'ideology' (or lack thereof). Best to stay to the many other amazing climbing threads if you're looking for a Kumbaya moment.
Love ya!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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is there prospect that earning your doctrate might exalt posts infused with more substance and less insolence?
Nope.
But your foul insults and lubricious name calling are way excessive.
As is the ignorance that provokes it.
Aren't you alert to the possibility of your department chair reading some of this hateful stuff and reflecting as to its potential effect on the university's prestige?
I don't have a department chair.
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jiff
Ice climber
colorado
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It is even less relevant than Dianetics.
ok, I chuckled from that line.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2013 - 07:17pm PT
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Friday evening on the east coast, will all the sh#t slingers be here fighting tonight?
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moacman
Trad climber
Montuckyian Via Canada Eh!
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It's just a simple plot. They made gay marriages legal so that they could be miserable too..........
Stevo
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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Riley Wyna - Just imagine if they could feel the heart of a gay person. more importantly, if only everyone could feel the heart of Christ. He loves them. straight, gay, good and bad. He did show me His heart, and how much He loves the lost. i just told you, it is a love of such magnitude, it would be impossible for a human to bare. compound a mothers love for her lost child over a billion times. it is that kind of love. a deeply grieving love. all this bitterness & hate, on both sides, it's all wrong. it's about love. any born again Christian knows about His love. He hates no one. He does hate sin. we are all sinners. i sin every damn day. His heart burns with love. i don't have the words to tell you about what He showed me. how much He loves and yearns for the lost to know Him. once again, all i could say, call out from the depths of my heart was, "I HURT!" ...
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
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Do you dislike gays because they were born that way and you had to be 'born again' to find happiness?
I was raised Roman Catholic,I was an altar boy. If I were ever to be 'born again', it would be as a Mennonite.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Is there a point to this thread?
Of course there is. It's to create a division of simple minds.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
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There is no point to this thread other than to create conversation.
It's kind of jumped the shark at this point, though.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Thanks again Splitter! Ur posts that I have caught in the last week have been wrought with sincerity and love. And I have felt them, deep. Your in my prayers.
What I can't understand is why we're getting called the "haters" jus because we do not think homosexualality is natural or moral. Or handing children over to them is morally right. All that
we have done is voice our humble opinion that this is not for the good of all. And at the same time have offered an alternative path. By "we" I mean the few Christians on this taco stand.
When in fact when we voice our opinion against these "acts" we are the ones being bombarded with hateful prejudice and hateful slang language. Homophobe? What is that really?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2013 - 10:43pm PT
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Nice reach around.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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What I can't understand is why we're getting called the "haters" jus because we do not think homosexualality is natural or moral. Or handing children over to them is morally right.
It's pretty simple. You bringing up the old "handing children over to gays is morally wrong" thing is a perfect example of why people accuse you of homophobia. Do you seriously believe that gay men or women are more likely to abuse your children than straight men or women? Do you think its morally wrong to "hand over" female children to straight male adults? Male children to straight female adults?
Why not just own up to the fact that your religious beliefs require you to either hate gays, or treat them as second class humans, and be done with it? Why keep frantically looking for something that will make you sound like this is anything other than blind religious dogma?
When you try to justify your anti-gay position by supporting it with arguments that just don't stand up, you come off sounding like the people who tried to justify their racial prejudices with pseudo-science in the last century.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Natural straight children NEED natural straight parents!
1 man, 1 woman. Society has proven that when one of these components is missing, that child goes haywire somewhere down the line.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 6, 2013 - 11:45pm PT
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Obfustication!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I think Andrew Dice Clay has the best slant on gay marriage...RJ
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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If gay marriage were legal i'd propose to Cosmic..RJ
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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more importantly, if only everyone could feel the heart of Christ.
It is a well know fact that the blood of zombies is circulated via the skeletal muscles. http://www.fvza.org/zscience2.html
If what you claim is true and Christ is in fact a zombie, surely his heart has atrophied after 2000+ years.
Natural straight children NEED natural straight parents!
Stupidest thing I have ever heard. What an idiot.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Well then..Is it safe to hate gay zombie marriage and do gay zombie children need straight zombie parents ?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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If what you claim is true and Christ is in fact a zombie, surely his heart has atrophied after 2000+ years.
Yea that's worth say'in. I'll bet ur parents are very proud of u
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WBraun
climber
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Christ is in fact a zombie, surely his heart has atrophied after 2000+ years.
It's the opposite.
Just look at yourself you stupid hater.
You have no heart nor soul.
You're just plain stupid too .....
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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1 man, 1 woman. Society has proven that when one of these components is missing, that child goes haywire somewhere down the line
Yup, Proven fact for sure -- and you are no doubt ready to cite all that "proof", right? And, of course, it goes without saying in your fantasy world that whenever a child does have 1 man and 1 woman as parents, that child never has problems "somewhere down the line."
Why not just stick to "God hates fags"? That's what you really believe, right? And hey, it's something no one can prove wrong!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Zombies aren't stupid and need love....
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Like flies to sh#t, or maggots to a dead corpse...
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splitter
Trad climber
SoCal Hodad, surfing the galactic plane
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BLUEBLOCR - If you had, say, only five-ten or so minutes to tell somebody something, and you new you would never see them again, what would you tell them?
It's not our job to convict anyone of sin. We are all sinners. It's our job to spread the Good News. If anything, we need to go the churches, preach to them. Plenty of born again Christians caught up in all sorts of sexual immorality, etc! According to some surveys, up to 50% of Christian men are addicted to porn.
The world needs to know how much God loves them, and is willing to forgive them of anything, just the way they are. He is the one who heals. Are you going to tell some heroin addict to clean up his act before he asks God into his heart? NO! Your going to tell him how much God loves him just the way he is. God won't leave Him they way he is. Our job is to love people. Some people take time. If you could see how much God loves someone, what do you think He would want you to tell them? That is what we all were created for, to know Him. Let Him work out all the other details. We can't change someones heart, only God can.
"To know Him, is to love Him."
edit: btw, John the Baptist was preaching to the church in Jerusalem to repent, at the time. Those that did, then brought the Good News of Gods love to the world. Me thinks that is what needs to be done at this time more than anything. Also, sometimes actions speak more than words. I am pretty sure that was what 'Micronut' was counting on when he fixed all those peoples teeth in Nepal. He was doing it out of love. No judging involved, no questions asked. God placed that love there. And they new who he was acting in behalf of, God would do all the rest.
BLUEBLOCR, there is a place for Christian apologist, and perhaps you fit that mold. I' am simply giving what I have come to grips with (so to speak) over the years. And, not sure who used them, or if anyone did (haven't followed this thread that close), but words like the "Q", "F", etc., are just like the "N" word, slurs that do only harm and are just as evil as the "N" word, imho! They drive people away and are said out of hate, not love. Jesus is who we are suppose to be representing. Sometimes I drift so far from that. It's just to easy to get worked up over something someone else said. I have been way guilty of that here on this forum myself.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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OP: "Love is love, screw what you think the bible tells you. Marginalizing people isn't gods way, period."
Nice job. You marginalized bible people and nullified any resolution right from the start.
Nice job. You managed to equate someone simply saying "screw your religious views" to government regulations that ACTUALLY DO marginalize gay people by taking away ACTUAL RIGHTS that are extended to married couples.
Do you think people who believe in the bible were really ACTUALLY "marginalized" by Brandon's post here?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Come'on ghost
Open ur eyes and look around this country. Or jus in ur neighborhood.
When was the last time u interacted with a group of children that weren't yours?
I volunteered to be a teachers assistant in my daughters 1st grade class and I'm the coach on her minor league baseball team. When you spend time with 30, seven yr olds it's easy to pick out the dysfunctional ones. The ones that want to just rebel against everything going on, and the ones that don't want anything to do with anything. Their usually emotionally distraught.
Or their unable to control their physical prowess. When you can get a little one on one time with them, they largely like to bring up the fact that they only have one parent at home. Or they are living with their aunt and uncle, or grandparents. It's often right on the tip of their tongue. Or seemingly like they just want to wave a white flag. I think at Joshua tree elementary they need as many psychologist as they have "teachers"
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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i heard the christians cannot participate in a gay wedding :(
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
I try, but my GF keeps telling me, "That's an exit only."
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^ really Bruce?
Ok so pretend ur Jesus up in the universe looking down on creation
We legalized alchohol. So wouldn't that appropriately make it morally ok for
legal aged drinker? But alchohol and it's side effects is the number one
killer of humans in the US. So do you think Jesus thinks alchohol is ok?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Ok so pretend ur Jesus up in the universe looking down on creation
the 'pretend' part has always been a deal breaker for me.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Thanks for speeking for me norton..
A moral is only in effect when there are two or more people. If two two people are having sex with a blue buttplug or a vibrating dildo, does that make it morally right for them? Sure.
But when all the people come together and continuously vote against this act, doesn't that make this act immoral?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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doesn't that make this act immoral?
Morality can't be legislated. And it's a free country, remember?
The sooner the christian nut cases figure that out, the sooner we can start living in harmony.
If you wanna live in a country where religious morality is law, then move to Afganistan or Iran.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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If you wanna live in a country where religious morality is law, then move to Afganistan or Iran.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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There are some common sets of morals that are legislated, it seems to me, such as don't be murdering people, or stealing their goods, etc...
I don't see those as legislated morality, but rather as constitutional protections.
We have consitutional rights, and murdering me or stealing from me infringes on my constitutional rights.
If Joe and Mark are two consenting adults who have sex with each other with a blue butt plug, how does that infringe upon your consitutional righs? It doesn't, and so it's none of anyone else's god damn business.
But... If you create legistation that tries to prevent two consenting adults from having sex with a blue butt plug, then you are infringing upon their consitutional rights.
People need to quit asking WWJD and start asking whether or not it's constitutional. Almost everything proposed by the religious right is unconstitutional.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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But... If you create legistation that tries to prevent two consenting adults from having sex with a blue butt plug, then you are infringing upon their consitutional rights.
Sure. Anyone can do what they want behind closed doors. Jus cause ur do'in it with a blue buttplug doesn't constitute meaning to call it marriage. Marriage was invented by Jesus. It's a vow between a man and a woman to come together as one exclusively for the reason to procreate. Not to better their tax situation. Lots of men and women "get together" to have sex, even with a blue but plug. But that doesn't constitute marriage! Marriage is the definition of family. Two people combineing genes to have more people. Simple. If everybody used blue butt plugs the world would be vacant in about 50yrs.
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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"Combining"
Edit- DMT nails it, no wonder Jesus was such a problem child, he never had a proper family.
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portent
Social climber
your mom's house
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Marriage was invented by the church when it was running low on funds. Not by Jesus.
Read a book, I mean a different book...
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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cause ur do'in it with a blue buttplug doesn't constitute meaning to call it marriage
I'll concede that to you.
So we'll make marriage a non-legal religious ceremony with no legal standing, and it can take place in the church.
We'll call the legal ceremony "civil union" and open it to all consenting adults.
Everyone's happy. Unless the church's covert plan is deny constitutional rights to non-christians.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
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So, my friend is very Christian, she works for the church. I wrote to her, asking her thoughts on this topic, because I care deeply about people's rights.
This was her reply, I think it's worth reading.
I had to laugh when I read your message. I have a *LOT* to say on the subject, but I'll try to keep it short here! This is a topic that is very dear to my heart. Unfortunately Brandon, the Christian church has not only gone along with, but been the perpetrator of many of the gravest injustices in our history, and have used the Bible to back up their actions. This breaks my heart, because while the Bible does have 6 verses that speak against homosexual behavior there are over 600 that talk about Christians' responsibility to the poor. What would the world be like if Christians focused our energy there??? And furthermore, I don't think the Bible can be divided up and picked over for the verses that say what the reader wants it to say (like it was in the argument FOR slavery, for example). The fact is, the Bible is a book written by many authors over hundreds of years. The fact that there can be any continuity at all or universal message is kind of astounding, and is what makes me care about the Bible and want to take it seriously. But there *IS* a universal message, and it is LOVE GOD AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. That is the single story of all of Scripture, so if we're not doing that, we are NOT taking the Bible seriously. So those 6 passages that mention homosexuality (that weren't even talking about consensual, committed homosexual relationships--those didn't exist at the time. What DID exist what the abuse of young boys by older men, which I believe is what those verses were prohibiting) should not have more importance than the message of LOVE that we are all called to. In fact, the Bible teaches that God IS love, so I can't see why anyone thinks that God would frown on any two people who love each other!
And a postscript;
PS: There are a lot of Christians who think the way your friends do, but there are also a LOT of Christians who are leading the call for equal rights and inclusion for the LGBT community! I'm not the only one!
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Wow, Brandon, I'd like to meet your friend. I have read the old and new testaments numerous times, and she has got it right.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Ur friend doesn't know the bible very well
So those 6 passages that mention homosexuality (that weren't even talking about consensual, committed homosexual relationships--those didn't exist at the time.
Romans 1:27. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of women, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful........
Oblivious consentuality! Do you want more?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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We'll call the legal ceremony "civil union" and open it to all consenting adults.
This is the only thing that makes sense that anyone here has said.
And I agree! This would conclude their tax problems. And allow all the legal rights , allowed
in the Land of the Free.
Now, the matter of adoption. You can't agree on bringing this huge confusion to a 2,3,4,5,6....
yr old child!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
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The fact is, the Bible is a book written by many authors over hundreds of years. The fact that there can be any continuity at all or universal message is kind of astounding, and is what makes me care about the Bible and want to take it seriously. But there *IS* a universal message, and it is LOVE GOD AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. That is the single story of all of Scripture, so if we're not doing that, we are NOT taking the Bible seriously.
Does this not make sense to you?
And, don't give me that BS where you say that you love your neighbors but still feel that they are going to hell. That's not loving your neighbor, that's personal condemnation and probably a sin.
Your born again, cherry picking attitude to religion creeps me out, and is a huge part of what is wrong in America.
Edit;
Ur friend doesn't know the bible very well
Those are fighting words, man. How very un-Christian of you. You don't know her, but she has been a devout Christian her whole life. She has based her life and work around her religion. Shame on you.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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now, a Red, White and Blue buttplug is another issue entirely...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Those are fighting words, man. How very un-Christian of you. You don't know her, but she has been a devout Christian her whole life. She has based her life and work around her religion. Shame on you.
See this is how wars start. I only know her by the words you posted. Which were not correct.
I showed you the correct meaning.
Is it wrong to be bold in the Truth?
Look at ur OP title. Those are fighting words. Hopefully without emotion you can learn something here?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Marriage has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with two CONSENTING ADULTS choosing to be miserable together for the rest of their lives.
I'm still contemplating the ramifications of Jesus being a bastard child. My understanding is that Mary cheated on Joseph with this dude named Jehovah or the Holy Spirit or both. Since Mary remained a virgin, we can only assume a turkey baster or similar apparatus was involved. Apparently Mary and Joseph weren't married yet, because Jesus invented marriage (according to one of the dumbest posters here), so was it really cheating?
Anyway, it is clear that Jesus had at least 2 dads and many people think he turned out just fine.
(despite what the village idiot dumbfucr says, there is evidence that the institution of marriage has been around for 10's of thousands of years, if not millions.)
So those 6 passages that mention homosexuality (that weren't even talking about consensual, committed homosexual relationships--those didn't exist at the time.
dumbfucr:
Romans 1:27. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of women, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful........
What in Romans, or any other bible passage, indicates they were EVER talking about committed homosexual relationships? Learn to read you idiot.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Marriage has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with two CONSENTING ADULTS choosing to be miserable together for the rest of their lives.
If that's the way you approach marriage, I feel sorry for you. You're a sad, bitter soul.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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and because you don't see things as I do, you are a Communist
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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And if what you post here is the way you approach life, I feel sorry for you. You're a fuking moran and a bigot.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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LOVE GOD AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.
So what do you think this means? To love someone you let them say and do what ever they want? I see this alot with single parents these days. A single mother doesn't want to discipline
their child because she's afraid she'll hurt her sons feelings. THAT'S what s wrong with our world today. I've heard multiple single moms say " my kid is my best friend" and they treat them like their buddies. Acting as if they were adults. Doing adult things, saying adult things. Watching adult things. Letting them get away with everything. Is this love?
Most people see love as being warm and fuzzie, hugging and kissing. Well that's part of it.
But isn't correcting and disciplining our children just as much love as hugging and kissing?
My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked
by Him; For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives.
Hebrews 12:5
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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dumbfucr, did you REALLY just use a parenting example in an attempt justify why you support denying gay people the same marriage benefits as OTHER CONSENTING ADULTS?
You are a clueless fukwad.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Oh the irony! Ur answer is right above ur question
burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful
Don't u think he's talking about an homosexual acts here? Isn't that a relationship?
You are pretty smart though..
Edit: I said nothing about gay people there, did I?
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 03:14pm PT
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Blueblocker, you are judgemental beyond repair. I feel sorry for you.
Born agains are the worst, preachiest bunch of the lot.
Good luck with your personal condemnations come judgement time, you're gonna need it!
So those 6 passages that mention homosexuality (that weren't even talking about consensual, committed homosexual relationships--those didn't exist at the time. What DID exist what the abuse of young boys by older men, which I believe is what those verses were prohibiting)
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed
--
I'm no fan of supposed christians who think their sins are better than others sins.
That is truly sickening.
Instead..Be free and count your incredible blessings not looking to deny them to others.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful
Don't u think he's talking about an homosexual acts here? Isn't that a relationship?
Yes, I think he is talking about lustful homosexual relationships... NOT committed homosexual marriages. Mat 5:28, Cor 6:18, Gal 5:16, and dozens of others also talk about the sin of lustful relationships, with no mention of homosexuality. To any sane non-homophobicpieceofshitbornagainasswipe it is clear LUST is the issue, not the sexual orientation of those choosing to enter a life-long committed relationship.
It sickens me that you are allowed to interact with children. Go fuk yourself sideways with a 2x4.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Why do you diss me for trying to hold up a high esteem of life and love?
No ones twisting ur arm here it's only preaching so u call it. Being born again does have the attribute of knowing that I have faults. And I wanna hold mine up to the Light allowing all to see knowing that God has forgiven me and won't hold me accountable if I change my direction. Lucifer has a tight grip on the wondering minds of this world. And prolly his number one ajenda is the destruction of the family. Family is the backbone of this country. I believe this country is failing, because the family is failing. We used to hold the regards of the family in high esteem. Now we don't even know what a family is. We're jus makin up new definitions
everyday jus cause people are bored. And this does not come from God. It comes from the devil.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Stop worrying so much blueblocr. Have Faith. The world is a better place than it was 100 years ago. Progress is going on ..unevenly but inexorably
It's insulting to the one who has it all under control
Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Have joy.. be free as is the gift you were given. Don't deny that gift.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 03:46pm PT
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Why do you diss me for trying to hold up a high esteem of life and love?
Now THAT is funny. Sad too, since you think your judgement is akin to holding life and love in high esteem.
What you call life and love is merely your perception. There are many other viable definitions of what life and love are.
You've got it so backwards dude.
But, you're too blind to ever accept all people.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Climb2
We are all sinners, everyday. And all are murderous to the soul.
The key to salvation is to acknowledge them to our Lord. Ask for forgiveness.
And Thank Him!
While we still have time..
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Yep keep it simple
2 rules according to the man himself.
let the rest sort itself out.
Be a good neighbor.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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I believe this country is failing, because the family is failing.
My grandpa had 5 wives. He beat his 12 children unconscious on a regular basis, focusing mostly on the eldest girl who took it in order to protect her sisters. His father was similarly abusive... and his father before him.
The family has been failing long before this country was even started you fuking idiot. Homosexual marriage has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Be a good neighbor.
By promoting legislation that prevents them from getting married based on your religious homophobia? If you were my neighbor I would kick your ass and sh#t on your face.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Uhm I know this has been a long thread.. you may have missed some things i said earlier..
Anycase you are preaching to the choir if directed at me Christ ..:)
By be a good neighbor I mean literally.. keep your eyes on what is around you.. help.. actually help each person in need as you meet them face to face.. and if by nothing else do so by a smile and deeply felt love for them. See the person god loves and do good not harm to them.
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Tready
Trad climber
Quito
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I've taught students from grades 6 up to 12 on three separate continents. I've had students who were dirt poor, living out of cars, and in and out of halfway houses. Three years ago, I had a student whose father bought him a hummer for his 10th birthday, just because he wanted one. This whole "gay couples shouldn't raise kids" is an absolute joke. It's not the sexual orientation or marital status of a parent that dictates the behavior of the child, it's the level of involvement that parent has in his/her child's life. My only concern for children of gay couples, is that they're going to suffer from harassment at the hands of other students who are echoing what the hear at home. THAT really disgusts me.
Of course, I say all of this without having any kids of my own. And, as a classmate of mine once said, "It's easy to be a parent when you don't have kids."
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Hi there I just got back from helping my neighbor put a new steel
Tub in his bathroom. He fell and cracked the fiberglass one. I hadda do some
copper sweat'in, you know scientific stuff.
Anyone want'a continue?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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is an absolute joke
I would seriously like to know why you think it's such a joke to you?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Bruce, first of all;
Wiki is just opinions. Take with a grain of salt.
Second, I being a Christ follower don't hear ANYTHING the catholic church sez.
So my humble opinion is what you cut and pasted is junk!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
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I would seriously like to know why you think it's such a joke to you?
Not my statement, but I'll interject.
I grew up with, and went to school with a number of kids from same sex parent homes. They were/are well adjusted, did well in school, and are now productive members of society with families of their own.
What are you so scared of? The whole bible stuff is nonsense, you simply seem scared of gay people. What a poor way to live your life.
Thinking that gay couples can't raise a child as well as a straight child is laughable, thus a joke.
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Tready
Trad climber
Quito
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Blue
I thought my post made why I thought it was ridiculous clear. Brandon more or less got it though: from a teacher's perspective, student behavior is all over the board, and attributing it to the parents is a crapshoot, at least in finding a determining factor. Rich people have crap kids. Poor people have awesome kids. The opposite of both those statements is true, and there are millions of students who fall somewhere in the middle. The one unifying factor I've noticed (though there are always exceptions) is parent involvement, and that's not something that only straight couples can do.
I think you can make a pretty convincing case for economic status serving as an indicator for academic success, but that's a very different topic, as it's dealing with academic performance. The question at hand centers around whether or not gay couples can raise a kid. You, I think, even mentioned earlier that we have hundreds of thousands of kids who are unwanted (you might have been referring to abortions - I wasn't sure). If there are people out there, who want to raise children and be involved in their lives, I say let 'em, regardless of sexual orientation.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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I being a Christ follower don't hear ANYTHING the catholic church sez.
Well, if being a Christ follower means you close your ears to the thoughts of anyone who disagrees with you in any way, why are you here? If you're not interested in listening what others think or say, it seems there can be only one reason: to expound your own views.
Kind of insulting. Most of us here are willing to consider what you -- or anyone else -- say on its merits. If we disagree, it's because what you're saying doesn't agree with what goes on in the real world, not because it is you who said it.
If all you have to say in response to anything anyone says that doesn't fit your unshakable faith is "My religious belief is right, and ererything else is wrong" you only show what a willfully ignorant person you are.
Seriously. Even Dr. Christ would treat you with respect if you only showed a willingness to change your mind when reality contradicts your beliefs.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 06:38pm PT
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Ghost is so much more diplomatic than I am.
Thanks for that.
I'm guessing that we are talking to a brick wall at this point though. Some people can't be saved.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 07:12pm PT
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I'm 34, and yes, it's been going on for longer than you'd imagine.
Just because they weren't legally recognized doesn't mean that they didn't love each other and raise good children.
The people I'm referring to who were raised by same sex parents are all straight, too. Not that it should matter, but I bet it matters to you.
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Tready
Trad climber
Quito
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What does your story have to do with gay couples adopting children? Traumatic, horrible, amazing, whatever, I don't see any connection to the subject at hand.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Even if homosexuality was a choice, what does that have to do with marriage or child-raising?
The ugly tale you told of old guys using drugs to get young guys into bed is hardly a gay thing. For every young person lured into gay sex by being offered drugs, there are probably ten young people lured into hetero sex. Does that mean that heterosexuals are evil and should not be allowed to raise kids?
And as to the "choice" thing, I think it's something of a red herring. If sexual orientation is a choice, then laws based on sexual orientation should apply to all. That is, if you want to deny rights to gay people because they chose to be gay, then you should deny those same rights to straight people because they chose to be straight.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Ok sorry ghost,
I didn't mean it that way. I'm actually a very good listener. Way better than IAM a talker.
I meant I as a Christian don't listen to the Catholics for guidance. That's all.
if you only showed a willingness to change your mind when reality contradicts your beliefs.
This part gets sticky. I think it's our beliefs that form our realities.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
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I think it's our beliefs that form our realities.
Absolutely, that's the most simple statement I've ever heard.
You fail to recognize that I have a valid point regarding love and equality because of your faith.
I fail to recognize the validity of your faith due to your inability to love all people.
Seems like a pretty broad stroke, no?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Hey I never said they don't deserve rights.
I agreed with pack rat in the notion of "civil union"
Mine here is not an argument. Its jus you people judge Christians all In one basket.
I've just been bruttlely honest with my feelings. I'm only trying to share with you
as a person how I formed my opinion. To maybe help you with ur insight of how you view Christians. Some Christians don't jus read the book and follow what the pope sez.
Most of the Christians I know are bruttlely honest and open. With very open minds. (More so than a lot of people around here). And they got that way because they created a shameful
despicable reality. And that's where Jesus met them.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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What evidence do you have that homosexuality is any more intrinsically immoral than heterosexuality?
Simple. Nature has dictated that to make babies you need a man and a woman. Heterosexuals.
Unless you pervert that, that is how stuff works.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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Simple. Nature has dictated that to make babies you need a man and a woman. Heterosexuals.
So fine. You equate morality with biological function. But what does that have to do with the legality of gays being married?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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So fine. You equate morality with biological function. But what does that have to do with the legality of gays being married?
Nothing. The question was about morality, not whether gays should be legally observed marriages by the Fed gov't.
It was a question of morality.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You fail to recognize that I have a valid point regarding love and equality because of your faith.
Funny, reminds me of years ago I walked into a bar and sat down next to this old lady with a deep irish accent. I sat and talked to her for hours. Meanwhile at the other end of the bar was a guy (who came in everyday) who started out really funny. After a couple beers not so funny. A couple more, and he was being an ass. A couple more and he turned into an as#@&%e! Well the barkeep kicked him out. I commented "wow what a jerk". And the ol'lady turned to me and said, "yea, we don't have to like him, we just have to love him. " I think that's been one of the most christian things I've ever heard from someone!
I get complacent in showing love to people that really know me. I figure they already know that I would give them anything or do anything they would request. Hell, I get affended if they don't ask. I kinda take that love for granted. I try to exude my big love toward people I just met.
And even toward as#@&%es.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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to be "homo" (as you so revoltingly calls it)
I'm sorry norton if I affended you. Not my intention at all!
I don't like giving up the terms "gay" or "queer" though because I use them for what they "really" stand for. If I were trying to be malicious I would prolly pick words like "turdfucr"
or "rump ranger " or "muff bumper". Get my drift?
I dont think ive been slanderous towards homosexuals here, do you?
I'm typing from my iPhone so I'm jus trying 2 ct dwn on th leter cownt. Capeesh?
Edit. And you know that crap is true! Stop trying so hard not to believe it
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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You are a self satisfied jerk. You have abandoned objectivity for a comic book take on reality. You probably say hateful things like, "hate the sin, love the sinner" so that you can feel like you're a good person regardless.
Self satisfied jerk?
F*#k off!
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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I'm typing from my iPhone so I'm jus trying 2 ct dwn on th leter cownt. Capeesh?
Then you ought to try posting less and when you do actually post, try using the standard abbreviations. ct=count (not cut), cownt- no such word (perhaps you meant "count" which is the same number of letters -not leters). Capeesh- wow, you're so gangster! Try "capice" (actually less letters!)
You could've typed "I'm texting and trying to keep the word count down, ok?" that's 52 characters including spaces as compared to your 72. (And we don't care if you have an Apple product.)
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Tready
Trad climber
Quito
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Blue, you say you don't like it when people lump all Christians together. Fine, but you've said a couple times that gay people should not be allowed to raise children. Why? I don't know you, but you haven't explained WHY that's the case. Aren't you doing the exact same thing to the LBG community that you're accusing others of doing towards Christians?
FYI: There's an accepted school of literary theory called "queer theory."
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Ok Bruce I'm sorry for not finishing ur answer. Iwas side tracked by the other harpoons.
I respect your grace.
My honest small opinion of morality coming from your language of meaning "for all"
Or what's moral for everybody. Id picture my entire family (from my 7yro daughter all the way through to my 97yro grandmother) and everybody inbetween. Attending the State Fair.
An outside gala event. Where there's the entire city celebrating wildly kicking up their heels
Having fun! Gett'in loose. You know where sometimes lines are crossed. But mostly where everyone is invited. Little girls to old ladies. Now if you get caught doing something that can offend this spectrum of women. I think that's what's immoral. If I can't explain an action taking place that is natural in nature to these two women. I think it's immoral.
I know that's not the answer ur looking for I'll ponder it some more. But right here where I sit
that's how I feel. Is that legally correct? Prolly not. So I just don't want to go anywhere or see anything in a public setting that will repulse the women in my life. Myself, I think cursing is repulsive and immoral in a public setting. I'm not sure I read ur question right I'll go back and read it again.
What ur answer anyway?
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Tready
Trad climber
Quito
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Yeah Bruce. Unfortunately, that's what it sounds like to me too.
Also, Blue, if you were to create that same scenario you just mentioned 60 years ago, I imagine a number of people would have been disgusted with the sight of a mixed-race couple. Go back 100 years and the same would probably have been true of a woman who had the gall to wear pants.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Skeptimistic
Thanks, lol. That was a nice break from seriousness.
Felt like I was climbing Belly full of bad berries!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Norton ur the one calling what I'm peddleing crap
and you, 2000 years later, actually are SO damn immature, naive, and gullible that you choose to believe that crap
I thought u were inferring to the bible?
And I can't say gays are wired that way. But if its unnatural why not try to fix it? Come'on
science guys where are you?
But I do know lots who have changed latitude in the middle of the race.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 7, 2013 - 10:15pm PT
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Fix what?
That's the point, there's nothing wrong with it. There's nothing to fix,.
Live and let live.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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But I do know lots who have changed latitude in the middle of the race.
In both directions. Why is changing one way "good" while changing the other way is "bad"?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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See iwas trying to be nice and offer an example where ALL tribes and genders commune in a secular setting. and what should the moral fiber be. Then you want to throw in hurdles like bigotry? I don't even think its proper for boys and girls to be mack'in out hot'n heavy in front of grannies.
" .....some of us determine morality by principles of egalitarianism, best expressed through the responsible application and limitations of personal power."
Can you even explain what this means? Or give a real life example?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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actually help each person in need as you meet them face to face.. and if by nothing else do so by a smile and deeply felt love for them. See the person god loves and do good not harm to them.
Werd. I've never had a bad relationship with any of my neighbors, from the backwoods of MT to downtown Rivercide, CA. Some here have, ain't that right blurring... you stupid ass fukwad?
Q: What evidence do you have that homosexuality is any more intrinsically immoral than heterosexuality?
puering: Nature has dictated that to make babies you need a man and a woman.
So in your sh#t smear of a brain the only moral reason to have sex or get married is to produce offspring? Just when I thought you couldn't be any more stupid, you dig deep and pull something like that out of your ass.
To clarify, you need a FERTILE man and a FERTILE woman. Should infertile people in heterosexual marriages be denied equal rights?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Thinking about the "marriage is for procreation" argument leads one down some interesting paths.
For example, if the basis of marriage is procreation, and people who won't procreate shouldn't be married, what happens when your kids leave home? Does Bluering have to divorce his wife once their nest is empty?
Or what about the man who decides he has brought enough children into the world and gets a vasectomy? Does that invalidate his marriage license? (and ditto for a woman who decides to have a tubal ligation).
For that matter, does using a condom, or any other birth control, mean your marriage is annulled in God's eyes?
Food for thought.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Therefore...
Anal = Divorce
At least with some chicks.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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In some sh#t smeared brains there's ideas of bringing up their offspring with the intention
of saving their virginity for that very special day when they get married. It's a savored gift that is held on to for that one very special person in which they are completely in love with and wish to take the oath of marriage with. And upon that day the couple can give to each other
the first time either has experienced the most sensual pleasurable feelings known to man.
Sex isn't only about procreation. Laying face to face with the woman you your Truely in love with while sharing orgasim at the same time is way better than any climb I've ever done!
I Truely feel sorry for all the homosexuals that won't ever experience this totally mesmerizing
Experience.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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And upon that day the couple can give to each other
the first time either has experienced the most sensual pleasurable feelings known to man.
But definitely NOT the most sensual feelings known to a woman. That sh#t takes practice. Ain't NO WAY a male virgin gives a female an orgasm (or even close) during their first time.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Those last ones were some funny shite! LOL
I'll do my best
But I don't know my friend. I think that was pretty much weak sauce!
Who are you to all of a sudden put up parameters on marriage?
If your gonna tear down what was put up 6000 yrs ago. How can you build a fence in one day? Why can't a man marry 5 wives then? Why can't a dirty ol 70yro man marry a 7 yro girl?
Maybe they are the only 2 people on an island and they want to procreate. And why the f*#k
Can't I marry my dog? Try and tell me he's not consenting.
Do you see how this WILL go in 10-20 yrs?
WE have to come up with NOW the correct verbiage or else aal hell is gonna break loose!!
Don't you wish you could have been sitt'in next to jJefferson when he wrote the DOI?!
He must'a been so cool!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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And once again the idiots try to drag us down the slippery slope of stupidity by suggesting two consenting adult homosexuals choosing to get married is comparable to bestiality, polygamy, or child betrothal.
Do you see how this WILL go in 10-20 yrs?
Yes. Every sane person will shake their heads in disgust at what a bunch of ignorant fukheads you "christians" were.
I Truely feel sorry for all the homosexuals that won't ever experience this totally mesmerizing Experience.
You know that feeling you get when you imagine sucking a c*#k and then sliding it into your ass while a big hairy man strokes your chest? From what I gather, that is how homosexual feel when they think of pussy.
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Tready
Trad climber
Quito
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Because you shouldn't be able to have sex with five dogs while stranded on a desert island. Duh.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Norton
Why would they even want to get "married" anyway after all that time together?
With all their years of experience they shurely know what the world thinks and knows about the term "marriage"? Are they jus trying to buck the system or get a tax break?
That's why I say we need a term like "civil union". That lets them get their tax break
And they can go loose their virginity. Capeace?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You guys are just to narrow minded.
My dog loves me!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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CHRIST
ur the the biggest inbetween the line reader ever !
Where's Bruce? That was a good joke!!
But what about the fences bouy?
Where the cans this tall?
That was my Frank Zappa.
You ate my Chrissy?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Norton
I can understand how two people in love and devoted to each other would want to make a public demonstration of their will to want to be together exsclusively for the rest of their lives.
I Truely feel how important this is. (even though I've never been married). My only arguement is in the language and the meaning thereof. And I condone ALL the rights thereof!
But garsh darnit jus take the word "marriage" out of it. It's NOT the same thing!
And it should not be coined under the same term. That's all I stand for. Does that make me a homophobe?
I like ur poignancy though!!
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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But garsh darnit jus take the word "marriage" out of it.
Would you prefer it called Bondage?
WTF is the big deal about a word?
Call it "whodafukcarez"
You know we have some real serious problems out there and this one (like the abortion debacle) isn't one of them. People should be more concerned about the mass die offs of honey bees recently.
If we lose the bees we as a specious have maybe five years left to survive.
Then it wont matter who you mate and marry.
This is such a divisive non issue distraction.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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I Truely had a VERY thought provoking, learning, inspirational, entertaining day!!!!!
I'm gonna go hug a gay tomorrow!
I hope you'all go hug a Christian !
I love you all!
BB
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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just one penis and one vagina because BODY PARTS are the ONLY reason to decide who gets to marry who
That is what the constitution says...
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, depending on genitalia of course...
But garsh darnit jus take the word "marriage" out of it. It's NOT the same thing!
And it should not be coined under the same term. That's all I stand for. Does that make me a homophobe?
So you want to deny an entire group of people the legal rights we as a society bestow to a committed union because of the word used to describe it... based solely on the genitalia involved? That not only makes you a homophobe... it makes you a fuking idiot to boot.
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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amen drF!
f*#k the religous zealots!
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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How true.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2013 - 11:34am PT
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Blublockr,
Your determination on this thread is great, but you have yet to make a valid point.
All you do is try to state that your opinion is superior, and cite the bible.
Nobodys opinion is superior, we all deserve equal consideration. That's how humans should roll, yo.
And, you've already been proven to be cherry picking scripture to suit your opinion.
Keep trying though, you're good for a few laughs, if nothing else. :)
And, this is just nitpicking, but learn how grammar works! Nothing makes you appear more stupid to someone who has a solid grasp on proper grammar than someone who is apparently too stupid to use it. You are immediately discounted when you suck at writing intellectual thoughts.
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Skeptimistic
Mountain climber
La Mancha
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I'm gonna go hug a gay tomorrow!
You probably hug more than a few, you just don't know it. Even some of your most devout friends might be gay. Or perhaps you should look deep into the eyes of the person staring back at you each time you look in the mirror. Might be some urges you're working overtime to keep under wraps...
I hope you'all go hug a Christian !
I do every day. My wife is a Catholic.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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make you the particularly vile type who doesnt have enough integrity to admit it and stand behind the consequences of his actions based on beliefs
Hey, wait a minute. IM STANDING RIGHT HERE! By myself in the middle of a pack of wolves
And I am voiceing my opinion. Isn't that what America is all about? Atleast I'm not out beating up people for not believing In what I believe! Or threatening them.
I gave in to all ur bodily demands, a contract of legality, a tax break, a public demonstration..
And because I wanna call it a "civil union" you say "NO. Your a homophobe" Fine!
I've been called worse on this thread;
Idiot
unchristian
dumbfucr
sad bitter soul
fuking moran
bigot
fukwad
fuking idiot
self satisfied jerk
stupid ass fukwad
ignorant fukhead
vile
I can see why ur holding on so tight to language, U express so well!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Sweet, most of those are mine. Idiot.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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One union is between a boy and a girl with intent on having more boys and girls.
One union is between a boy and a boy with no intent
Why do they call them Boyscouts and Girlscouts. Why not jus Scouts
BECAUSE THERE'S A DIFFERENCE! DUH
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Your religion is not everyone's religion.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 8, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
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Some marriages are between two men and two women. They are legal. Your homophobia has no place here. Go away, you judgmental fool.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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One union is between a boy and a girl with intent on having more boys and girls.
One union is between a boy and a boy with no intent
You actually think the intention of every union between a boy and girl is to have more children? Should we call it something different if a man and woman choose to spend their lives together but don't intend to have children? What if they intend to have children but can't?
You actually think there is NO intention in homosexual unions?
You are a fuking idiot.
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Tready
Trad climber
Quito
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Man, blue, you can spin it however you want, and more than likely, you'll ignore this, just like you've ignored my other questions. Seems like you're content to spout nonsensical BS when confronted with legitimate questions.
But you are treating other people differently because of their sexual orientation. You can tell whatever rambling stories you want, but at its heart, you're saying that gay people aren't entitled to the same rights that straight people are. How can you justify that?
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Food for thought.
How about a couple that can't have children? Should they be forced to divorce? How long do we wait before forcing them to divorce? Who makes that decision?
Morals are irrelevant.
The Bible is irrelevant.
The Constitution is all that matters.
Blue, if you want to live in a country when religion and morals are legislated, then MOVE TO IRAN!
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Rush had a pretty good one today.
A serviceman said:
First homosexuality in the military was illegal;
then it was "don't ask don't tell";
then it became optional . . .
I'm getting out before it becomes mandatory!
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Hey norton
How about posting what the constitution specificly sez about marriage.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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OK BLUEB here just for your reading enjoyment.
Only took a few minutes.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html#marr
Marriage
In 2004, a lot of controversy began to swirl around the topic of marriage as homosexual marriage entered the news once again. In 1999, the Vermont Supreme Court ordered that the state must make accommodations for gay unions, bringing the issue into the public eye. Vermont created civil unions as a result. In 2004, the Massachusetts Supreme Court went a step further, and ruled that the state must accommodate not just an institution equal to marriage, as civil union was designed to be, but that gay marriage itself must be offered in the state. Subsequently, mayors in New York and California began to offer gay marriage in their towns and cities, citing civil rights concerns. Those opposed to gay marriage began to urge that an amendment to the Constitution be created to define marriage as being between a man and a woman only. Opponents of the amendment pointed to the failed Prohibition Amendment as a reason why such social issues should stay out of the Constitution. In the absence of any such amendment, however, marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution at any point. More information is available on the Marriage Topic Page.
marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution at any point.
You make a great...ahem, "straight" man.
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WBraun
climber
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So we are all sinners anyway, why care?
Mostly yer all stupid .....
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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WHATWHATWHAT???
Then what's all this rhetoric about it being a "constitutional right"?
You boys better stand up and splain urself!!
Pardon my stupidism, but I thought you had legal words back'in ye'all
I know it does sez somp'in bout "freedom of speech"
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Quack Quack
Was it Cade or not?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, CA
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I always have loved Russ' trolls. NO ONE is as creative.
Meanwhile: Pursuit of Happiness (ring a bell?)
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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rSon, uve been huff'in to much caulk
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I prefer the species without caulk but i'm for gay marriage because the lurking health insurance executives are secretly against it...How's that for an alignment..?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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That's what i thought, when ya ain't got validating words, resort to being volger
Aww that's right norton. You being an evolutionist, that's where you get ur idea
of reality produces belief. Jus like, matter spawns consciousness and the earth-sun produces gravity. You jus need a flip in ur magnetic direction. Then you would be able to see the light.....
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Volger is as volger does.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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WHATWHATWHAT???
Then what's all this rhetoric about it being a "constitutional right"?
Christ you fuking idiot.
The Constitution grants equal rights to ALL PEOPLE. If YOU have the right to marry the person YOU CHOOSE, why should it be different for ANY OTHER PERSON?
Equality of rights under the law shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
What the fuk you idiot?!
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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Funny thing. The religious people in the US that speak up make it sound like they want everything legislated to be the same as them.
I'm am not atheist. I appreciate the fact that I am free to believe and live how I want.
Why shouldn't I want that for everyone else as well? Because they are gay and I'm not? How detailed in religion do you have to get? Because Methodists and Catholics differ, which one should the government pick to enforce? Where does this stop? Even the rules within religions change over time? What happened to the government being dedicated to liberty and freedom for all? When did it supposedly change to enforcing one group's beliefs?
I really agree that, especially politically, every human should have the tax rights or government advantages for their relationships.
I want them for my marriage relationship. And I want the freedom to have my relationship and kids my way.
It only hurts my and future generations to impose government limits to households - I don't understand how religious people in the US think that their government should somehow try and force everyone to be their religion in order to be recognized. That truly is Iran.
You guys really are quite extreme. Give it a break, let people be free, and do your own best and if you have to interact with others, do so by helping them or serving them. Would that be so hard to do?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Nice post tooth!
What happened to the government being dedicated to liberty and freedom for all? When did it supposedly change to enforcing one group's beliefs?
It should never be! It should always be dictated by the VOTE. What ur Talk'in about is when the 8 California judges went into chambers at midnight and instituted same sex marriage without a vote of the people. It's covert operations like that is what we should be yelling at!!!!!
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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What ur Talk'in about is when the 8 California judges went into chambers at midnight and instituted same sex marriage without a vote of the people.
When they decided to put in writing that people did indeed have legal protection as individuals they didn't need a vote. THey are individual US citizens. Since this new group has been singled out by society, there became the legal need to name them legally as being given the rights and freedoms as are all other Americans. If they don't, ignorant Americans will treat them poorly.
There is no need to vote that every American gets liberty, and then vote for groups that you happen to not agree with. Americans already VOTED or agreed on life and liberty for all, equal rights.
If you think you have to go back and vote for one group of people now, you will have to go back and vote for all. What about blacks? Jews? Newfies? You would probably vote no for one of those groups but you country already decided that everyone gets liberty. The judges were just spelling it out legally for those who have a problem understanding who everyone includes. It also means tweaking details of taxes, etc. that will develop with this.
ps. if you are concerned that your one of more than 200 world governments instituted 'same sex marriage' then you apparently think that they are more powerful than your religion. So this is most likely what you are worried about. Internally you have a conflict with your perceived power within your soul of your religion vs. the perceived power of your country. Solve that and you'll sleep better at night.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jim
Ur ramifacations are certainly correct. That's why we do need something constitutionalized
(set in stone) so that we have a benchmark prior to entering the union of marriage.
I'm going through it right now. Today I went to Family Facilities to and try and get more time with my 7yro. As it stands mommy gets her 85% of the time and I get 15%. How is that equal rights? She's designator jus because she's a woman. They said that!! If that ain't prejudice
I don't know what is. Plus she got the house and car. ATLEAST I got to keep my rackˇ
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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When Jesus was here, the religious people hated Him because they were vying for power with/from Rome and He could care less about the religious or political rules. He hung out with people the religious people hated, helped them live the best lives they could, and helped people/was a positive influence uplifting everyone He was around.
Except the priests who were too concerned with rules and politics and not really at all with individuals. Jesus just annoyed these guys.
When did He ever comment on or care about the local government's rules? Give unto Ceasar what is Ceasars'...
Apparently there are still 'priests' here today who are trying to use the government for their own agenda and we all know how that turns out. If you are a 'Christian' why don't you follow the ideas Christ followed instead of being 'religious' and being hypocritical like the religious people He annoyed?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Tooth, good one
But what graps my grump, is when they initiated 8. It caused us to have to have another vote.
In my county alone (then Placer) it cost taxpayers 6.7 million jus to have the vote. I'd hate to know what it cost San Bernadino?
Solve that and you'll sleep better at night.
That's another thing I know with having my savior Lord Jesus Christ. He is the Ultimate power!
So I understand that mans governments are just folly. And they are not going to get better.
It's a Christians job to try and slow down mans siege of power.
And I sleep like a baby.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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When Jesus was here, the religious people hated Him because they were vying for power with/from Rome and He could care less about the religious or political rules. He hung out with people the religious people hated, helped them live the best lives they could, and helped people/was a positive influence uplifting everyone He was around.
Why do you think I'm here? And not in a church!
He was just a way BETTER talker than I am. But ATLEAST I'm trying to hear Him...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Apparently there are still 'priests' here today who are trying to use the government for their own agenda
Obliviously politicians are going to have an religious background. But I hate it when they use religion to promote their agenda because there is always lies involved. There are a lot of "Christians" in this country, thuss a lot of votes. So politicians have to suck up to them in order to buy their rockets. Obama has been dribbling in the Christian court. Quoting the bible and all. But ALL that aid he sent to Eyjpt went to the Muslims. WTF?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Who do you think lives in Egypt Blue? Eskimos?
Will you complain that US aid to Africa went to Black people?
And for the record, Seperation of Church and State IS in the Constitution.
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tooth
Trad climber
B.C.
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It's a Christians job to try and slow down mans siege of power.
It is Christian's job to follow Christ's example. Nowhere did He say we are to care at all about power, politically or religiously. Never did He do so. Even on the eve of his death weekend when He was talking about His kingdom the disciples had to be reminded that it wasn't an earthly kingdom and power and to put away their swords and quit cutting off people's ears. How more blatant did He have to be after putting the ear back on?
Sure, the American story line may say that religious people have to have political control, or Jewish states have to have regional power, etc etc, but if that doesn't create division and strife within the people in the Nation, nothing will. Which is exactly the opposite of the effect Christ had within individuals He had contact with.
If you are a Christian, you should believe in the Bible and what it says. It says God is big. Too big for us to see or understand in entirety - let alone force others to see our way.
Think of this, a bunch of blind guys trying to describe an elephant - one is holding it's tail, another it's trunk, and other it's foot. Who is right? Who can tell the other how to describe the elephant, be right about it, and have the right to force the other to 'see' the elephant as he does?
The principles are the same though. God is Love. When you don't reflect Love in your behavior/speech, you aren't reflecting Him. It is impossible to hate (gays, Canadians, sinners, that's all of us) and reflect Him. It is possible to hate and get involved in using tools of power to control others (religion/politics) and be like the priests and government officials that ensured Christ was killed.
The Bible records more control between Christ and the weather or animals than between Christ and politics or religious policy. Almost every story recorded was Christ and an individual or small group (12) discussing their inner being and how they can live better. Sometimes talking to a large group about the same things. I don't see how the words 'go and teach all nations' could have meant to slow human sinner's 'siege of power'. Even when Satan tempted Christ with giving him the whole world if he would bow to Satan, Christ didn't argue that this world is Satan's domain. He left and ministered to individuals - healing them, helped them celebrate happy times in life and helping them live better lives.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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A child in arms negates all the sexually significant whatevers but engenders a good, loud F*#K YOU about reality and the financial consequences.
I get' cha. But it makes no sense to me. That kid came out of my left nut. She jus carried it around for nine mos. she as much mine as she is hers. In an EQUAL world.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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And for the record, Seperation of Church and State IS in the Constitution.
I know. It was put there by Christians!
And in Egypt is the oldest lasting Christian church. Started by Mathew in like 80AD?
Who do you think the Muslims are trying to get rid of?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Tooth
That was Beautiful!!
But what about Paul or Peter?
I'm definitely getting chastened lately...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Weren't those started before Christ ?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Thanks again Tooth
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2013 - 07:08am PT
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Is BLUBLOCKR really Steve? The same guy who keeps sending me linkedin requests?
Seems unlikely.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Meanwhile , Lindsay Lohan has moved back in with her mother...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Why are you so down on the Blues?
He kinda looks like Jesus though, dont'cha think?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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i bet bluey has a cute blue-butthole :)
medusa say's hello bluey!!!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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I'm sure I'd get a peaceful response if I stood outside a church with a sign that said:
"Your god let priests ass rape little children"
WTF is wrong with those idiots? They deserve what they got plus some.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2013 - 07:47pm PT
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At first, I assumed the fat white guy was the Christian.
I've had a great conversation with my friend, who I quoted upthread. It's so refreshing to hear someone who obviously loves god, and has based her life around that love, confirm what I've written.
I'll requote her words, in case anyone missed them the first time around. They are very much worth repeating.
I had to laugh when I read your message. I have a *LOT* to say on the subject, but I'll try to keep it short here! This is a topic that is very dear to my heart. Unfortunately Brandon, the Christian church has not only gone along with, but been the perpetrator of many of the gravest injustices in our history, and have used the Bible to back up their actions. This breaks my heart, because while the Bible does have 6 verses that speak against homosexual behavior there are over 600 that talk about Christians' responsibility to the poor. What would the world be like if Christians focused our energy there??? And furthermore, I don't think the Bible can be divided up and picked over for the verses that say what the reader wants it to say (like it was in the argument FOR slavery, for example). The fact is, the Bible is a book written by many authors over hundreds of years. The fact that there can be any continuity at all or universal message is kind of astounding, and is what makes me care about the Bible and want to take it seriously. But there *IS* a universal message, and it is LOVE GOD AND LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR. That is the single story of all of Scripture, so if we're not doing that, we are NOT taking the Bible seriously. So those 6 passages that mention homosexuality (that weren't even talking about consensual, committed homosexual relationships--those didn't exist at the time. What DID exist what the abuse of young boys by older men, which I believe is what those verses were prohibiting) should not have more importance than the message of LOVE that we are all called to. In fact, the Bible teaches that God IS love, so I can't see why anyone thinks that God would frown on any two people who love each other!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Seriously Burchey?
I've seen those fukheads on campuses, same signs. They call girls SLUTS and WHORES as they walk by. They intentionally provoke their boyfriends, but only when they know the cameras are rolling. In Davis one yelled "every one of you faggots should die and burn in hell starting NOW..." making an obviously aggressive motion towards the onlookers. Is that kind of bullshit protected under the constitution?
They are the same fukheads who go to soldier's funerals with signs that say "Thank God for dead soldiers."
They go to places they are obviously not welcome and instigate violence. That is NOT free speech, that is asking for it... they got it, and they deserved it. As far as I know, they never even organize their own demonstrations... they just instigate violence at otherwise peaceful events.
Who would be to blame if I got punched for standing outside a Church in Elko, NV calling every woman who walked out of there a whore and the guys child molesters?
At first, I assumed the fat white guy was the Christian.
Fair enough assumption.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2013 - 08:14pm PT
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Are you really trying to equate discriminatory protesting to the civil rights movement?
Good luck with that.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Do you know for sure that these guys are those funeral protester-types?
Same signs.
Did you hear them call anyone bad names? I didn't.
Yeah, funny how the footage starts AFTER they provoked some of the crowd.
I guess the black folks down south that marched in the streets way back were at fault when they were beaten or arrested or hosed down - why didn't they protest someplace where they'd be "safe"?
Hmmm, so you are comparing some asshats who show up at a pro gay rights demonstration to provoke the crowd to black people marching for equal rights? Bummer, I thought you were smarter than blurring et al.
Emotional baseless reactions like yours are just as dangerous as the things you spout against.
How is my reaction emotional? It certainly isn't baseless... if you go looking for and provoke violence you deserve what you get.
Violence is wrong until it's for your cause, yeah?
Ah, I see your misunderstanding. Violence is wrong PERIOD. But if you go somewhere and intentionally provoke violence... you deserve what you get.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2013 - 08:27pm PT
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To be clear, I don't promote violence. Ever.
Honestly, I despise it. That was one of my premises for this thread.
Violence can be both physical and verbal. It's all wrong.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2013 - 08:33pm PT
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What does 'nek minnit' mean? Is that an Aussie term?
I'm not familiar with it.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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What don't you understand?
wrong: a violation or invasion of the legal rights of another
deserve: to be worthy, fit, or suitable for some reward or requital
Violence is wrong, but the dude's actions were still worthy of the requital he received.
and as far as this goes:
in order to maintain one's status as a reasonable person and critical thinker
Since when has ANYONE on the stupidtaco ever thought I was reasonable or a thinker of any kind?
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John M
climber
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Violence can be both physical and verbal. It's all wrong.
Well, at least we got that figured out.
GFYS,
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
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You guys are arguing for the sake of arguing now.
Do you agree that all people should be treated equally?
Have you even watched the video in the OP?
If you haven't, I recommend it. It's very good.
I'll make it easy, here it is. Enjoy. :)
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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And a guy who claims no more responses, responds.
Look dude, you are usually pretty entertaining. But WTF? Pull your head out... someone shows up to a demonstration and starts yelling hateful sh#t... they deserve what they get. It isn't like the guy was just walking down the street. It isn't like it was his demonstration. He walked into it with the intention of causing sh#t... he got what he deserved.
Same sh#t happens on college campuses with these fukheads. They come to the student union, call women WHORES and SLUTS and rant about how they are going to DIE and BURN IN HELL. This is the first one I've ever seen get violent, but I have seen the cops respond as the crowd became more aggravated. They always had head sets and no doubt always had a camera guy nearby.
Check out some of "Rogue Reflections" other winning videos... all confrontational... taking pictures of a international port ( from what I gather, first time he was unarmed, second time he was carrying a weapon), then he acts indignant when cops are concerned about his gun and he refuses to identify himself. Fuk people like that.
GFYS isn't violent! Unless you are into that sort of thing.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Strange how the footage starts AFTER they provoked some of the crowd. What is tubby saying:
"You got something to say? Say it again."
Of course the coward wouldn't. When he is informed via his head set that the cameras are rolling, he becomes the passive victim.
Some final words from the camera man: "That's what I came here for."
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Tready
Trad climber
Quito
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Being treated equally regardless of sexual orientation? Yeah, I think it has probably popped up a couple times.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 9, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
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GFYS isn't violent!
It can be if perceived that way, and perception is reality, right?
This is a worthy conversation, my apologies if anyone was offended by the acronym in the OP.
Now lets fight!
Any of you haters, have you watched the video? It's a good song talking about kindness.
Have you read the email I received from my friend who works for her church? It's poignant and succinct.
These are my refutations of your arguments. I could write more, but I'd be likely to let it get personal and say rude things. I'm better than that, so I won't.
The phrase 'Love is Patient, love is kind', is one of the most used, yet least implemented in all of the bible. Why is that?
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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What's with a "gay pride parade" anyway? Have you ever seen a
"heterosexual pride parade"?. Ever?.
Looks like the scene in the vid. takes place in a park. "Common space". While the parade was in the street. Not sure though? And there's two guys with a sign saying something. Jus standing there. And there's a shirtless heavy guy, a short guy with a hat, and a redheaded chick. Running around pointing there finger in the guys faces and saying something. Which is all fine and dandy. It OK to stand in a park with a sign and SAY whatever you want. Right?
Then all of a sudden the two guys with a sign get shoved away. And then their signs taken away. Then they start gettin socks to the noggin. Not fine and dandy!! From that first shove
that guy should get cited for assault. Along with the other 4-5. And should have to do 6-9 months in the state pen!!!
Edit: why isn't it jus as provoking walking around with a "rainbow" flag, saying "we're Proud To Be Homosexuals" as it is walking around with a sign saying "Jesus Loves You"?
Isn't freedom of speech and freedom to write anything you wAnt in the Constution??????
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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Gay pride parades don't bother me at all. But do you what is sickening?
Seeing ignorant, bigoted, flat-earthers filing in and out of church every Sunday.
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dirtbag
climber
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Feel threatened by a parade?
Well, everyday is heterosexual day.
One day is gay day.
Get over it.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Hey I don't have enough enthusiasm to go to any parade. But isn't a parade supposed to welcome everyone? And can't everyone bring a sign?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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I see religious parades happening all the time:
Easter
Xmas
St pattys
Etc
Etc
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Feel threatened by a parade?
Only when I get physically threatened. I guess the message is, Christian heteros should stay away from "gay pride parades" or they'll get beat up?
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dirtbag
climber
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I guess the message is, Christian heteros should stay away from "gay pride parades" or they'll get beat up?
Do you lie awake at night, fearful of gay people?
BOO!
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dirtbag
climber
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His dad has always kept the same kind of company.
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dirtbag
climber
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I'd like the divorced crowd to chime in but they are privately chuckling about what a bunch of neophytes who have mouthed off here...
Of course gays are to blame for my divorces.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Hey it's caulking gun!
german was more tolerant of gays in the 30's than the us is TODAY.
Yea and hitler was a world renowned Christian? Jus because he HATED Jews, doesn't mean he loved Christians. Remember, Jesus was a Jew.
See any resemblance?
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dirtbag
climber
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If there was actually a Jesus.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^^^^ THAT'S THE QUEEREST THING I'VE HEARD YET!!!!!!
Edit: rSon U keep gett'in in the wAy. mIne waS meant fOr diRtbaG.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You gotta be drunk
hitler USED CHRISTIANS because as idiots who loved idols made to look like christ, they were infinately manipulatable into psyco killers who were happy to rape loot murder and burn thinking its what the savior wanted them to do in order to get into heaven
When we (you?), get to heaven we'll see how many Christians were in hitlers army.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 10, 2013 - 12:02am PT
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^^^^^ THAT'S THE QUEEREST THING I'VE HEARD YET!!!!!!
Edit: rSon U keep gett'in in the wAy. mIne waS meant fOr diRtbaG.
Considering there is no reliable contemporary account of Jesus, then that question I posed makes a lot of sense.
What doesn't make a lot of sense is placing blind faith in someone whose mere existence is questionable.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 10, 2013 - 12:03am PT
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Watch out, tho, I'm sure there is a gay person lurking nearby.
BOO!
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 10, 2013 - 12:06am PT
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I posted this before, but I really don't care if homophobes take offense to being called haters, bigots, etc.
If they are offended, perhaps they should ask themselves why.
It's nothing compared to the insults, discrimination, hatred, and even violence homosexuals have endured.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jul 10, 2013 - 12:13am PT
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Why this is such a big deal says everything about how the separation of church from State is the most important clause in the American reality.
NO. the big deal is; when you read something, and think about it. Then speak about it.
And finally act out about it. Isn't this "thought provoking action"? Or in another words,
Conscious CREATING matter?
Edit: I guess tis belongs on the PG&RvS thread
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jul 10, 2013 - 12:36am PT
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^^^^^^she kinda looks like my daughter in 10 yrs. but i wouldn't like it if she toted those signs around.
If they are offended, perhaps they should ask themselves why.
I've never FELT offended by homosexualality, or threatened, for that matter!!
Homosexualality is nothing new. It's been around for ever! It comes and goes,
like the waves on a beach..
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 10, 2013 - 12:40am PT
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That's not what I was talking about. Re-read the post.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Jul 10, 2013 - 12:59am PT
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It's nothing compared to the insults, discrimination, hatred, and even violence homosexuals have endured.
This sounds like the BOO-HOO. I'm sure you would be hard pressed to find a Christian that socked a "gay" for walk'in around with a "rainbow flag" I can imagine some wild shite. But I couldn't ever imagine a "gay" could say anything to provoke a person with Jesus in their heart,
to physically assault them. Not like that shirtless guy in the vid. , but I don't think he was "gay". I think he was drunk
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 10, 2013 - 01:04am PT
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Right, gay assaults on Christians is sooooo rampant.
And yes, boo fookin hoo bigots. That is what you are.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2013 - 12:47pm PT
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I can imagine some wild shite. But I couldn't ever imagine a "gay" could say anything to provoke a person with Jesus in their heart,
to physically assault them.
Really? That's one deluded sentiment, dude.
Hate crimes happen.
And why do you put the word gay in quotations?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 10, 2013 - 12:55pm PT
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People "with Jesus in their hearts" is not the issue. That is a bullshit strawman that he threw up there to avoid dealing with the fact that he is an ignorant bigot.
The issue is fukheads like bluenuts who wish to deny gay PEOPLE the right to choose their spouse and the asshats in that video.
edited at the request of a good guy.
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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Jul 10, 2013 - 01:00pm PT
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I've never FELT offended by homosexualality, or threatened, for that matter!!
Homosexualality is nothing new. It's been around for ever! It comes and goes,
like the waves on a beach..
So it's been around longer then Jesus.
Hahahahahah
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 10, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
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Would it offend your sensibilities if I told you I was gay?
I'm not, but that shouldn't matter.
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jul 10, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
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So could someone please explain exactly how you GFYS?
And if you actually can does that mean you could marry yourself?
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philo
Trad climber
Is that light the end of the tunnel or a train?
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Jul 10, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
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:-) :-) :-)
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Jul 10, 2013 - 10:25pm PT
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i think i just had my first period,
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 10, 2013 - 11:19pm PT
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So you've made marriage an imagination in your tiny fertile brain and made your heart a cold frozen place thru the poor dry mundane logic and reason of delusion ........
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 10, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
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People "with Jesus in their hearts" is not the issue. That is Steve Pratico's (aka bluering aka blueblocr) bullshit strawman that he threw up there to avoid dealing with the fact that he is an ignorant bigot.
The issue is fukheads like bluenuts who wish to deny gay PEOPLE the right to choose their spouse and the asshats in that video.
Can you please not use my real name anymore? I actually don't normally mind it, but your context is painting me as a fuxking target.
Back off, mother f*#ker.
EDIT: I'm not BluBlocker, genius....
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:02am PT
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Sure, I'll stop using your real name Steve, as soon as you stop trying to take away the rights of other PEOPLE based on your ignorant adherence to ancient fairy tales.
Fuk you.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:06am PT
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Sure, I'll stop using your real name Steve, as soon as you start treating ALL people equally regardless of your fairy tales and bigotry.
Fuk you.
When did I advocate not treating all people the same? And where did you get my name?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:13am PT
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Dr. Christ, do you have any comments on gay Skinheads attacking Christians? Is that bigotry as well?
How about Boko Haram torching schools full of Christian kids? Any thoughts on that?
EDIT:
So you are not opposed to gay marriage any longer? Great, we made progress towards equal right for all PEOPLE.
I say get FED out of all of it. Leave it to the "racist" States.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:16am PT
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I have nothing to say to you Steve. You will remain an ignorant fukhead, and I will continue using your name, as long as my friends remain gay and you continue to support legislation that denies them the same rights you have.
I say get FED out of all of it.
So you opposed DOMA? That is great.
GFYS.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:18am PT
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Well, Adam, that's all good. And I may fight you all, but I'm armed also. I just don't want a Zimmerman trial.
Just leave me alone. We'll all get along.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:20am PT
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Just leave me alone. We'll all get along.
Leave you alone? When you sign on here and spray hateful bigoted sh#t about the people I love, and support legislation that would deny equal rights to my friends?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:23am PT
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I have nothing to say to you Steve. You will remain an ignorant fukhead, and I will continue using your name, as long as my friends remain gay and you continue to support legislation that denies them the same rights you have.
GFYS.
So this is a personal thing with me? Didn't you fags just get what you wanted? I thought this was over now.
You appear to be an angry troll. What more do you want?
Leave you alone? When you sign on here with two names, spray hateful bigoted sh#t about the people I love, and support legislation that would deny equal rights to my friends?
Fat chance Steve.
Listen, Johnson, I have one name here. No others. As all liberals you have assumed too much!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:25am PT
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So this is a personal thing with me? Didn't you fags just get what you wanted? I thought this was over now.
Spoken just like your KKK ancestors.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:28am PT
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Spoken just like your KKK ancestors.
Republicans gave the slaves their rights. They fought for it!
My point is that since you get gay marriage, what is your f*#king problem???
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:37am PT
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So, if I accept gay marriage then I'm no longer a bigot and am cool with you guys?
Think about it before answering.....
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:38am PT
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It isn't anything personal. I oppose anyone who opposes equal rights. I would do the same if you opposed equal rights for blacks, Hispanics, women, or ANY other group of PEOPLE.
Blacks have the right to vote. If you start using racial slurs and saying you support them only getting 3/5 of a vote per PERSON, I'd call you out on that too.
My problem is bigots hiding behind fake nameS, spewing hate towards an entire group of people, and not being able to stand behind their words. If you don't like being hated for the sh#t you say, don't say it.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jul 11, 2013 - 12:39am PT
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I don't want to get in the radius of the Bluering/Weschrist fracas...
...but Bluering isn't Blueblocr...there are significant differences in syntactical structure and conception patterns. Different gentlemen, for sure...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 01:05am PT
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My problem, Steve, is bigots hiding behind fake nameS, spewing hate towards an entire group of people, and not being able to stand behind their words. If you don't like being hated for the sh#t you say, don't say it.
I stand behind everything I say. DO you? Who are you?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 01:16am PT
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Burchery, honey, don't sweat it... we will work something out.
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 01:23am PT
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I'm not gonna lie... I've let myself go a bit.
Just remembered, my gf has dibs on the whole marriage thing. I'll see if she is still interested and let you know.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 01:33am PT
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In order to accept gay marriage it would require a concerted acceptance of egalitarianism based on moral behavior as opposed to some sort of weird social class structure.
but thats just me. Did I fall into your trap?
You did, but you didn't. Let me ask you this. is this really important right now????
Can the country and Congress focus? We're passing over 1,000 page Bills and we expect people to 'get that'?
And yet we focus on the f*#king gays.....or the blacks (Zimmerman trial).
Are people completely stupid? Someone help me.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 01:39am PT
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Jimmy is a good friend of mine, leave him out of this.
I am not Blublocker, or whatever the f*#k he's called. I am what I am.
What remains is who you are. Climbing pics? Anything?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 01:45am PT
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This is the 3rd (?) time I've asked. Care to share your reason for not answering?
Answer what???
Trust me, I ain't Blubblocker. Or whatver, I don't play those games.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 01:52am PT
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Get it right about the responsibility engendered of what you cherry pick. You have a PHD but you have a need for learning about the difference between what objective and subjective. Just because you don't like the views of the other people doesn't mean their objectivity is dismissible.
Where the marriage train falls of the rails is always at the same place all this bullshit arrives at. That is where the story based thinking collides with the facts.
That's one way of putting it, Jimmy. Well said too...
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 01:55am PT
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Objective: If a person gets to choose the person they marry and legal rights are afforded to the married couple, then all people regardless of race or sex get to choose the person they marry and have the same legal rights afforded to them.
Subjective: I'm an ignorant bigot who thinks fags should not be allowed to marry because the Bible has 3 passages about homosexuality being bad.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2013 - 01:55am PT
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Oh good, Bluering and Wes are arguing on this thread.
Way to kill the conversation, fellas.
You do this sh#t all the time.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 02:01am PT
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Objective: If one person gets to choose the person they marry and legal rights are afforded to the married couple, then all people regardless of race or sex get to choose the person they marry and have the same legal rights afforded to them.
NEWSFLASH!!! Asshole. Did you read my previous posts?
No, because you're a f*#king as#@&%e!
I said the FED should stay out of marriage, and let the Federalist States decide how to deal with it.
Ever hear of a Constitution? Federalist Papers? Venona Papers?
EDIT: I threw the Venona's out there just because I hate f*#king commies!
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 02:03am PT
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I said the FED should stay out of marriage, and let the Federalist States decide how to deal with it.
Ever hear of a Constitution? Federalist Papers? Venona Papers?
Can states pass legislation that prevents people from getting married based on race? No. Then what in that tiny little sh#t smear brain of yours makes you think they can pass laws that prevent people from getting married based on sex?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 02:05am PT
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Nice dodge fuktard. importance or priority or whatever was never implied. drop the bong.
What am i dodging?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 02:10am PT
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Can states pass legislation that prevents people from getting married based on race? No. Then what in that tiny little sh#t smear brain of yours makes you think they can pass laws that prevent people from getting married based on sex?
Now that is the crux, right? I'm mixed on Prop 8, but I see yer point! What you have to see is that is shouldn't be Fed, but a State Law as long as is doesn't infringe on the Bill Of Rights, or Constitution.
Ya know?
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Dr. Christ
Mountain climber
State of Mine
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Jul 11, 2013 - 02:14am PT
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You are familiar with "separate but equal?" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separate_but_equal
But garsh darnit jus take the word "marriage" out of it. It's NOT the same thing!
And it should not be coined under the same term. That's all I stand for. Does that make me a homophobe?
That there is denying same sex MARRIAGE. That there is "separate but equal."
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 02:21am PT
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have fun jerking yerselves off between commies and blue-haters.
Should be awesome!!!!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Jul 11, 2013 - 02:25am PT
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and funny how his heros in congress,
when confronted with a bill last week promoting states rights in the demand that oil extractions must pass a vote at that level,
all voted against it!
Are you in favor of all those who voted to support Iraq War? Obama care votes?
In favor?
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Jul 11, 2013 - 03:51am PT
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Where did ole' blueblocr go anyway?? You'd think he would also show up to deny the allegations posted here? Especially considering he was all over this retarded thread a few pages back. Since he left everyone has been just ganging up on bluering which is too bad because it seemed like they had really similar views on the topic. I'm sure bluering could use the support about now.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2013 - 01:09pm PT
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The Pope has stated that gays should not be marginalized or discriminated upon.
This is good news.
Maybe they will allow gays and women into priesthood someday. It's pretty dumb that they don't already.
Sorry to dredge up an old OT thread, but this is remarkable.
I'm not religious, but I'm stoked to hear this news.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
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Sully, I didn't know that.
Your TR was great! You seem like a very kind, compassionate, and understanding person.
Thanks for being you!
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
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I'm related to and friends with a number of gay people. It is no different to me than a traditional heterosexual relationship. They love each other, and that's what is important.
Maybe someday I'll find love as well. I personally am attracted to women, but I respect love in all of its manifestations.
Long live love! It's a beautiful thing!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Jul 29, 2013 - 02:01pm PT
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Sullly, that may not have been a Cmac action...
I've noticed some TR's go into the Trip Reports Only room and disappear from the general thread flow at some point. Whether it's an automatic programming or an arbitrary thing I don't know.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
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What planet are you on? Give me half-ropes and pitons any day.
I'm on planet earth dude. I respect all people. Shouldn't you do the same?
Respect is the basis of a good, honest life.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
dancin on the tip of god's middle finger
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Jul 29, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
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the trip reports universally share a short life
upon the front page. the get the spotlight
for a few days then disappear until someone
remarks on them.
im sure this wasn't specific to your nice trip report, sully.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
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Burchey,
I know a great number of people who feel romantic love for people of the same sex. It makes me smile to see them gazing lovingly at each other.
Love is love, it transcends gender.
Love only means procreation if you're religious. If you're a kind human who respects people, love can be between a man and a man or a woman and a woman.
As I've said before, I am attracted to women, but I acknowledge and respect the love that same sex couples share. It's natural for people to find love with others of the same sex. It has been happening for millennia, marginalizing or criminalizing it is wrong. Period.
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The Larry
climber
Moab, UT
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Jul 29, 2013 - 03:54pm PT
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My lady and I have an open relationship. She's 100% lesbo. And a gold star. We love each other.
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
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Ok Burchey, I think I get your point, but discounting romance is super cynical.
Haven't you ever fallen in love with someone?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Jul 29, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
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Brandon-, wonder why Cmac keeps closeting my gay wedding TR to the trip report section only, erasing it from the forum twice. Another poster (friend) alerted me to this.
sully that suck's! Cmac has his favorito's...
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jul 29, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
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your post is much less valuable than mine.
ooh, thanks for that
I will remember in the future how valuable your posts will be
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Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2013 - 11:16am PT
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Jim,
I just heard about that yesterday from a friend who is a bartender in Brooklyn.
She told me that over 200 NYC bars are boycotting Russian vodka.
I know, 200 bars in NYC isn't many, but maybe it will send a message.
Meanwhile, in Uganda...
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John M
climber
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May 17, 2014 - 12:34pm PT
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“Foes of allowing same-sex marriage might note that there’s been no noticeable breakdown in the fabric of society that can be attributed to extending the right to marry to people who share the same gender.”
thats sort of like the pot smoking study that came out in the 70s. No noticeable difference in someone who smokes pot for 10, 20,30 years. whatever the number was. The problem was their test subjects had been smoking pot for their entire lives and pot had been smoked copiously on that island for generations. So whatever difference might have been noticed had already occurred. If I am 40 years old and have been smoking pot since before I was born, and you test me for 10 years, you likely won't see much of a difference.
Somewhat similar situation here. These people have been living together and having sex and doing all the relationship intimacies, so the piece of paper isn't all that big of a difference if you are trying to understand the effect. The effect is a cumulative thing and has to be studied over large numbers of generations to be understood.
The similarity in climbing are the small mistakes that singly don't lead to catastrophe, but together can.
And Please, you don't need to flame me. I'm just explaining a viewpoint. It doesn't mean that I agree with it. If you want to change something, you generally need to understand it.
The viewpoint of some spiritualist would be over millions of years. 10 years would be next to nothing in that time frame.
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John M
climber
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May 17, 2014 - 12:55pm PT
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I fully understand that Timid, and I agree. I was speaking in very long term social impacts. I'm sorry if I did not convey that.
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| Messages 1 - 557 of total 557 in this topic |
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