Will you your RFID implant in your head, hand, or adze?


Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 21 - 40 of total 64 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
new world order2

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2013 - 02:01am PT
Au contraire, socialclimber. I care enough to share with you folks.

Do you want a future that is controlled by machines? A future where there are no jobs for man, a future that is run by robots and computers?

Again...Why are we allowing the engineering of a future, where mankind is no longer needed?

Be an individual, rather than a yes man. Question more. Why are we constantly at war? Why do we kill whole villages of innocent people?
Why is there poison in our food, in our water? Why is 70% of America on pharmaceutical drugs? Why does government answer to corporations, and big oil?

1 million people in Brazil, are today protesting government. There have been numerous protests worldwide against government tyranny. People are waking up.
What will it take for North America to wake up? Perhaps a devaluation of the dollar by some 30% ? More inflation? What?

Mark my words...Unless we all wake up, we will become controlled by a military/big brother police state.
It's already in the making, as evidenced by the recent NSA scandal.

The elite want to model our society after China.
Or more accurately, a socialist, communist, Nazi controlled state.
Do you want this?

Have a nice future.

Boulder climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 02:06am PT
Why do you Hate America? Are you French?

Jun 22, 2013 - 02:41am PT
I want a future with lots of climbing threads.

Social climber
Dalian, Liaoning
Jun 22, 2013 - 02:50am PT
The elite want to model our society after China.
Or more accurately, a socialist, communist, Nazi controlled state.

You don't know much about China, do you.

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 22, 2013 - 03:47am PT
You don't know much about China, do you.

Not surprising given he doesn't know squat about the elite, computers, or robots either. Kind of sad really.
new world order2

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
I know enough about China to know about Tiananmen Square, one child policy, forced labor camps, and the freedom it's citizens lack, that we enjoy here.

I know enough about robots and computers to know they are replacing mankind in the workforce. Why do you think there aren't any jobs?

healyje....Do you feel being a Communist is sexy?
Why do you think fluoride (an ingredient in Prozac and rat poison) is a good thing in drinking water?

Trad climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 04:03pm PT
Talk about elitism you arrogant prick, are we only men if we conform to your world view? Don't begin to imagine what I know, what I read and what I think, take your pathetic Alex Joneseque world view and get the fvck off this forum...

new world order2

Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
Awwwww, Charles. You have such anger in your heart.

Does what I share scare you?

It's ok. Once you have the chip, you need not worry about getting lost, ever again! That's a plus, ain't it?

You take care now.


Trad climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
Nah, you're just a condescending basterd on a chat room, a nice chance for me to use colorful language and word play...

Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jun 22, 2013 - 10:34pm PT
Google Glasses will be Google Eyeball?

So your premise is that sometime in the next 20 years we will be hard-wired into the Socio-techno-governmental machine?

Don't sweat it man - by 20 years from now the Boomers will be dead, the Hispanics will control 40% of State elections, most of our coastal cities will be under 4 feet of seawater, the electrical grid will have collapsed from deferred maintenance and only the Rich will be able to afford 300 hundred dollars a month Internet access.

In other words, who will care about mind-control when they are too busy killing each other for food.
Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
Jun 23, 2013 - 12:19pm PT
The New World Order & Paranoid Conspiracy Theorists (PCTs)

What is at stake is more than one small country [Kuwait], it is a big idea - a new world order, where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind: peace and security, freedom, and the rule of law. Such is a world worthy of our struggle, and worthy of our children's future. --President George Bush in his state of the union address, January 16, 1991

The Illuminati was a secret society in Bavaria in the late 18th century. They had a political agenda that included republicanism and abolition of monarchies, which they tried to institute by means of subterfuge, secrecy, and conspiracy, including the infiltration of other organizations. They fancied themselves to be "enlightened" but they had little success and were destroyed within fifteen years of their origin (Pipes 1997).

Paranoid conspiracy theorists (PCTs) believe the Illuminati cabal still exists, either in its original form or as a paradigm for later cabals. Many PCTs believe "that large Jewish banking families have been orchestrating various political revolutions and machinations throughout Europe and America since the late eighteenth century, with the ultimate aim of bringing about a satanic New World Order."* What George Bush was talking about in his state of the union address in 1991 was no less than the establishment of a single world government with the anti-Christ (who some say is Bill Clinton (or is he a decoy?), but could be Pat Robertson or George W. Bush) at its head.

In the paranoid mind, the Illuminati succeeded in their goals, and have now infiltrated every government and every aspect of society. They are responsible for every evil and every unjust act that ever occurs anywhere; the fact that absolutely no evidence of their existence can be found only serves to make them stronger and more frightening. They are the demon in the closet, and will probably never disappear from the paranoid fantasy world of right-wing conspiracy theorists.
--New England Skeptical Society

There are several "sects" of PCTs. Among the more popular are the militant Christian fundamentalist branch and the UFO/alien branch. They each think the others are evil or nuts but their paranoia has the same focus: the end is near.

the Illuminati and the anti-Christ

The Illuminati are hastening the coming of the anti-Christ and the end of the world.

For those of us who still accept the Bible as God's [sic] revealed will to man, it's a matter of great concern to see the increasing propaganda for, and emergence of, a New World Order.... both Old and New Testaments warned us that the culmination of history would be marked by the reunion of the nations of the old Roman Empire in Europe; the restoration of the state of Israel (and the increasing hostility of all nations toward her); the implementation of a one-world governmental system; the imposition of a world-wide cashless monetary system; the development of a synchretistic [sic] world religion, based upon man, and presided over by a false prophet; the rise to power of a benign world dictator, who (once firmly in control) would eliminate individual freedoms, demonstrate iron-willed ferocity and cruelty, and make himself the object of worship; and world-wide apostacy [sic], coupled with active persecution and execution of believing Jews and Christians.
---Jay Whitley

Mr. Whitley is prepared for Armageddon, however. He sells Emergency Dehydrated Food Kits.

the major players

Here is a typical set of the PCT's notions, extolled in a review of an author who claims he has exposed the Illuminati:

Who really controls world events from behind-the-scene? Years of extensive research and investigation have gone into this massively documented work [Bloodlines of the Illuminati]. In almost 600 pages, Fritz Springmeier discloses mind-boggling facts and never before revealed truths about the top Illuminati dynasties. Discover the amazing role these bloodlines have played--and are now wielding--in human history, with family names such as Astor, DuPont, Kennedy, Onassis, Rockefeller, Rothschild, Russell, Van Duyn, and Krupp. You'll also learn of the secretive, Chinese Li family, which operates with impunity in the U.S.A. and around the world. Along the way you'll find out why President John F. Kennedy and actress Grace Kelly were killed; who created the United Nations; who controls the two major U.S. political parties; how the Rothschilds invented and control modern-day Israel; who secretly founded false religions such as the Jehovah Witnesses; and much, much more. A literal encyclopedia of rare, unbelievable information!*

The "information" is certainly unbelievable, but it is not rare enough. Another PCT "sect" holds that it is the aliens who rule the Illuminati who rule the world, etc.

David Icke

David Icke, another pundit of the Illuminati, believes humans have been getting messages from alien "Illuminati-reptilians" for thousands of years. The reptiles explain such things as the Gregorian calendar.

The whole senario [sic] was planned centuries ago because the reptilians, operating from the lower fourth dimension, and indeed whatever force controls them, have a very different version of "time" than we have, hence they can see and plan down the three-dimensional "time"-line in a way that those in three-dimensional form cannot.*

Icke fancies himself "The most controversial author and speaker in the world."* For him, the origin of the Illuminati is extraterrestrial. He knows this because he is sure we have been contacted regularly with messages from beyond by the alien lizards. He explains it all in several books, especially The Biggest Secret: The Book That Will Change the World.*

Jim Keith

Another expositor on these hidden agendas and worldwide conspiracies is Jim Keith, who died on September 7, 1999, during surgery to repair a leg he injured at the Burning Man Festival. Keith, a former executive Scientologist and author of nine conspiracy books (including Saucers of the Illuminati) could see things the rest of us don't. Was this because he was better at seeing or because his imagination ran wild? He watches a Coke ad and sees fellatio and anal penetration.* You can imagine what he sees or hears when he gives his attention to world history.

Ken Adachi

Ken Adachi has a fine conspiracy page. He leaves no event unaccounted for as part of the plot to take over the world and hasten the Apocalypse. The Illuminati, however, is only one aspect of the occult cabal. He has transmogrified the New World Order into a cabal itself. According to Mr. Adachi

An extremely powerful civilian dominated cabal, the New World Order, includes Majesty [sic] Twelve [MJ-12], The Illuminati, Order of the Quest, The Bilderberg Group, The Trilateral Commission, The Executive Committee of The Council on Foreign Relations, The PI-40 Committee, The Jason Group [sic], The Club of Rome, The Group, The Royal Institute of International Affairs, The Open Friendly Secret Society [the Vatican], The Rosicrucians, The Brotherhood of the Dragon (or Snake), The Russell Trust, The Black Families (of Europe), Skull & Bones, the Scroll & Key, The Knights of Malta, the Illuminati arm of The Freemasons, and many, many other secretive groups.

What is most amusing about Mr. Adachi's page is that even though the end is near, he still asks us to please support his sponsor, an organization that can help with debt consolidation or a home loan. What is not so amusing is his identification of the Freemasons as a subversive cabal. This idea is popular among PCTs, especially with those on the religious right like Pat Robertson, who are also prone to be anti-Semitic.

Myron Fagan

Mr. Adachi may have a fine conspiracy WWW page but he seems to have borrowed everything from Mr. Fagan, who undertook to explain all of world history as a plot of the Illuminati to establish the New World Order. Waterloo, Diamond Jim Brady, the French Revolution, any war you care to name, homosexuals in the State Department, JFK, the United Nations, the ACLU, Jewish bankers, the Communist conspiracy to control Hollywood and make films that would hasten the arrival of the New World Order, etc. ad nauseam. Fagan's audiotape, "The Illuminati," is available online with transcript.

Fagan, born ca. 1888, was a playwright, director, producer, editor and public relations director for Charles Evans Hughes, Republican candidate for president in 1916. In 1930, Fagan came to Hollywood and worked as a writer and director. In 1945, he says he saw some secret documents which led him to write Red Rainbow and Thieves Paradise. The former portrays Roosevelt, Stalin and others at Yalta plotting to deliver the Balkans, Eastern Europe and Berlin to Stalin. The latter portrays the same group plotting to create the United Nations as a Communist front for one world government. Until his death, Fagan relentlessly uncovered plots for almost every historical event of any note. Fagan is the archetype for the PCT.

Both David Icke and Myron Fagan were influenced by William Guy Carr, a Canadian naval officer and conspiracy monger who prophesized that World War III would be started by the satanically influenced Illuminati.

Milton William "Bill" Cooper

Cooper was a leader of the Arizona militia movement until his death in a shootout with a sheriff's deputy. Cooper opened fire on the deputy when he tried to issue a warrant for assaulting his neighbor. Cooper wrote The Secret Government: a Covenant with Death - The Origin, Identity, and Purpose of MJ-12, a paper given in Las Vegas at a MUFON meeting in 1989 focusing essentially on his belief of a cover-up of an alien crash at Roswell. He also wrote Secret Societies/ New World Order. He claimed that he got his information "directly from, or as a result of my own research into the TOP SECRET/MAJIC material WHICH I SAW AND READ between the years 1970 and 1973 as a member of the Intelligence Briefing Team of the Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet." (PCTs seem to like to use CAPS for EMPHASIS.) Cooper's veracity about his career in the Navy and his access to secret documents has been questioned publicly on alt.alien.visitor, as have other aspects of his personality. Cooper ran williamcooper.com, a site which promoted his many rants, including an autobiographical page that might be of interest to certain mental health professionals.

Cooper's "investigations" uncovered the usual conspiracies, although he also included some of the new ones such as the conspiracy to use AIDS to thin out the population of blacks, Hispanics and homosexuals, a notion he put forth in a book called Behold a Pale Horse. What Cooper lacked in hard evidence he oversupplied in detail and imagination.

Robert Gaylon Ross, Sr.

Ross is owner of Ross International Enterprises (RIE) and is the author of nine books in progress. RIE is "a private company chartered to do anything that is legal, ethical and moral, anywhere in the world." Ross started RIE when he couldn't find a publisher for his manuscript, Who's Who of the Elite, an expose of the elite. Says Ross, after you visit his site

you will have been exposed to the REAL TRUTH about the conspiracy behind the Bilderbergs; Council on Foreign Relations; Trilateral Commission; Skull & Bones Society; Bohemian Grove and Bohemian Club; the CIA's involvement in trauma based mind control, drug smuggling and money laundering; where are the Wealthiest in the World; who really owns the Federal Reserve System; and the more accurate theories found in "Logical Physics" [by Cecil Ross].

Robert Gaylon Ross's unique twist is to relate the "alternative physics" of Cecil Ross to the world of conspiracies.


To enter the world of the PCTs is to enter Bedlam. It would be pointless here to examine, much less attempt to refute, the delusions of people who think they have been turned into assassins by mind-control techniques so that they can carry out the will of inbred dynasties, that aliens are controlling the world, that none of the laws of science are actual, that the imagination and the thought of what is possible are better guides than the "physically manifested world," etc. A rational person might think many of the PCTs are joking. There are Internet sites that seem to be parody sites but it is difficult to tell, since there seems to be no belief, however inane or absurd, that the PCTs can't fit into their bizarre worldview. A rational person who never heard of Pat Robertson might well read his New World Order (Word Books, 1994) and think it must be a joke. Could anyone actually believe his rambling paranoia regarding Jewish bankers, Freemasons, Muslims, homosexuals, foreigners, etc.? Apparently so. Still, one wonders why PCTs exist and their numbers seem to be growing.

Of course, governments and some of the very rich have conspired to rule the world in one form or another. There are enough real conspiracies to satisfy even the greatest Pollyanna that one's government and the extremely rich and powerful don't play by the same rules, if they play by any rules at all, as decent folk. Those of us who have watched the U.S. government support one fascist dictator after another because he was "anti-communist" are uncomfortable to find that there are people who are so far to the right of the right-wing that they too want to expose the cover-ups. It is of no use to point out to the PCTs that our government led coups of democratically elected governments, assassinated leaders of nations and provided military and financial aid to thugs and murderers around the world, in a misguided belief that they were saving the world from communism, as well as opening up new markets for capitalist expansion. Many of the leaders and top agents in our government are and were evil and incompetent, but, as inept as they tend to be, even they would recognize the limits of their ambitions.

But, it is pointless to argue here because the PCTs are expert pseudohistorians: contradictory evidence is used to support rather than refute their notions. Does the U.S. Government go after the world's richest man, Bill Gates? Hah! It's a charade, aimed at getting us off the scent. Wasn't Hitler the one who thought he could rule the world and didn't the Allies stop him? Hitler was a dupe, used to advance the sinister plot to rule the world by the Illuminati.

some speculation

One can only speculate as to why PCTs exist. It is easy to explain their proliferation: modern mass communications has made it possible for anyone to become his or her own press and propaganda machine. But why PCTs in the first place? The only other experience I've had with such thinking was when I had to get involved with some mentally ill people. I am not joking here. A relative had a "psychotic break" and severe paranoia. We (a group of relatives) were all targets of assassination by some unknown evil people. They could be partially identified by their license plate numbers. If the number started with a "5" then they were evil. No amount of logic or reasoning as to the preposterousness of the notion that anyone would want to kill a person of absolutely no political significance was of any use. No amount of reasoning as to how license plate numbers are assigned was of any use. Phone calls could only be made from "secure" lines, which involved either going to the fire department or talking your way up through a series of supervisors until you got a "good one." Through my ill relative I met others who were also afflicted with delusions and incredibly faulty judgment. They did not lose their ability to reason--in fact, my relative seemed even more intelligent in some ways when manic--but their assumptions were taken from sources inaccessible to the ordinary mind. They put vast faith in their intuitions and thought their ideas were brilliant insights when they were little more than the fancies of diseased brains. When I compare reading the literature of the PCTs to entering Bedlam, I mean to be taken literally.

For example, many PCTs consider the Great Seal of the United States and the motto Novus Ordo Seclorum (new order of the ages) to be Masonic and to mean New World Order. These "facts" are considered evidence in the argument to prove the vast conspiracy of the Illuminati. It is useless to argue against these "facts" with PCTs. They consider us dupes who would note that the Latin is usually translated as New Order of the Ages and that the symbol of the eye in the pyramid relates to a poem in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.* Even granting that the Great Seal of the United States and the symbols on our dollar bill are Masonic (which they are not) and that novus ordo seclorum means New World Order (which it does not), nothing significant follows, certainly not that there is a vast conspiracy to take over the world.

Providence and eschatology

I think it is likely that many PCTs in the West are initiated into their peculiar way of thinking by their religious training, in particular by their study of the Bible. They have been taught or they assume that everything happens for a purpose and that some god ultimately has a reason for every event occurring just as it does. As it becomes more and more difficult to see this world as designed for anything, the theories get more and more preposterous to keep the teleological delusion alive. The war on evolution and homosexuality--encouraging the abandonment of science and stimulating murderous assaults--so obviously disproportionate by any rational standard, is difficult to explain without seeing the militant fundamentalists as beyond the last stages of desperation. The intense campaigns to expose possible alien abductions, UFOs, and mind-control is likewise preposterously disproportionate to any rational standard. It is becoming nearly impossible to account for the events on this planet with the assumption of a Divine Creator who has a plan and a rationale for everything. The systems of thought that must be created in order to maintain Divine Providence get more insane by the minute. (Explain Hitler, Slobodan Milosovich, or Ishii Shiro. Or, for that matter, explain Waco, Gulf War Syndrome, or any of a number of actual conspiracies engaged in by businessmen such as Bill Gates or political leaders such as Oliver North and his "neat" idea of a government within the government answerable to nobody, or Richard Nixon and the Watergate conspirators, or our formerly secret biological warfare programs.) There is, in fact, a New World Order emerging: the world of Alternative History, Alternative Physics, Alternative Medicine and, ultimately, Alternative Reality.

It is a very natural trait to try to make sense out of the world. The PCTs are trying desperately to make sense out of a world they can no longer relate to. The world is too complicated, too mean, too cold, too unsatisfying for them. In the real world, they are considered nothing and despair of ever being anything but on the outside looking in. They see science as telling them they are an accident and their lives are without meaning. In their alternative world, they rule and are hopeful. Everything is in its place or will be put in its place. There is order and meaning. Life is significant.

the end is near

The actual mechanisms by which PCTs arrive at their weird notions are not that difficult to ascertain. As long as one is selective in which facts to focus on or invent, even the dimmest bulb in the panel can confirm his bias. Witness Jenny McCarthy, a model with no medical background, becoming the leader of the pack in the Big Pharma/AMA vaccination conspiracy. The mentally ill people I came to know couched their paranoid fears in terms of the F.B.I. and the C.I.A. They had no communal reinforcement of their delusions, however. No talk show host or publisher invited them to share their delusions with the world. They are under treatment, have been hospitalized, arrested, etc. They know that those around them will not accept their delusions. This is not true of religious or UFO groups. They reinforce each other and strengthen each other's resolve. They encourage each other to accept possibility as equal to probability, material experience as inferior to dreams, hallucinations, and out-of-body experiences, etc. They have no watchdog equivalent to I. F. Stone, and the mass media is too busy chasing tabloid rumors and celebrities to serve as a watchdog of anything. Since the PCTs function almost completely outside of the normal arenas where they would be challenged and forced to produce evidence in place of speculation, they flourish relatively unscathed and await their next appearance on the Art Bell or George Noory or Pat Robertson show, seemingly oblivious to the absurdity of such behavior during the final days of planet Earth. When the PCTs do bring their conspiracy theories to the public in forums where they can be challenged, they are masters at evading contrary evidence and challenging opponents to explain this or that, which, when explained, is quickly ignored in favor of a new this or that that needs to be explained, ad nauseam. PCTs, like those who think the Apollo moon mission was staged in a movie studio, are unimpressed by the commonsense notion that the more government bureaucrats that must be involved in a conspiracy, the less likely it is true.

George W. Bush: a gift from the gods

If one looks only for what confirms one's beliefs, the Bush/Cheney circus of errors is a gift from the gods to those who maintain that 9/11 was planned by our government. The Cheney/Bush administration acted remarkably like an administration whose goal is world dominance. It posed as pious while invading countries to make war on them. It allowed torture* and spying* on its own citizens in the name of patriotism and defense of liberty. It's abstinence only policies seem to have been aimed at increasing America's population so that it's armies might stay large and its markets keep expanding. It did little of positive value to stop a worldwide economic collapse. It practiced many human rights abuses that it condemned in its enemies. The appointment of Paul Wolfowitz as head of the World Bank seems too good to be true if one is looking for support of this hypothesis.

It seems impossible that such bright guys went to war because of bad intelligence, which is what Bush now claims. To some it must seem as if the Cheney/Bush regime tried to encourage terrorism rather than stop it. The more fear they could arouse the longer they could continue their aggression in the name of defense. Even so, there is little evidence that they were part of a global conspiracy. Yet, it's not surprising to see conspiracy websites like that of Alex Jones, who thinks the U.S. has become a police state. (If we were truly a police state Mr. Jones wouldn't have his website or his films.) It also will not be surprising to see a great increase in the number of people who believe in the Cheney/Bush illuminati cabal.
Ricky D

Trad climber
Sierra Westside
Jun 24, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
GAwd I hate Cut-and-Pasters".


Jun 24, 2013 - 04:33pm PT
I saw "adze" and thought this was a climbing thread. Doh! I need some of those tags so when I drop my axe or lose a ski in the snow I can whip out my handy dandy finder gadget and dig it back up! I guess if the governmet wants to find my adze that's kinda wierd but ok I guess, it's old and beat up.

Mountain climber
Jun 26, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
You don't need RFID to be tracked, if you're driving a licensed vehicle in California. The cops are doing a good job of tracking license plates in a lot of counties. Anyone know if other states are doing this?

Sorry for the copy and paste, but otherwise you need to subscribe to read this:


After the city of San Leandro purchased a license plate reader for its Police Department in 2008, computer security consultant Michael Katz-Lacabe asked the city for a record of every time the scanners had photographed his car. The results shocked him. The paperback-size device, installed on the outside of police cars, can log thousands of license plates in an eight-hour patrol shift.

Katz-Lacabe said it had photographed his two cars on 112 occasions, including one image from 2009 that shows him and his daughters stepping out of his Toyota Prius in their driveway. That photograph, Katz-Lacabe said, made him "frightened and concerned about the magnitude of police surveillance and data collection." The single patrol car in San Leandro equipped with a plate reader had logged his car once a week on average, photographing his license plate and documenting the time and location. At a rapid pace, and mostly hidden from the public, police agencies throughout the state have been collecting millions of records on drivers and feeding them into intelligence fusion centers operated by local, state and federal law enforcement.

With heightened concern over secret intelligence operations at the National Security Agency, the localized effort to track drivers highlights the extent to which the government has committed to collecting large amounts of data on people who have done nothing wrong. A year ago, the Northern California Regional Intelligence Center - one of dozens of law enforcement intelligence-sharing centers set up after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 - signed a $340,000 agreement with the Silicon Valley firm Palantir to construct a database of license plate records flowing in from police using the devices across 14 counties, documents and interviews show. The extent of the center's data collection has never been revealed. Neither has the involvement of Palantir, a Silicon Valley firm with extensive ties to the Pentagon and intelligence agencies. The CIA's venture capital fund, In-Q-Tel, has invested $2 million in the firm.

100 million records

The jurisdictions supplying license-plate data to the intelligence center stretch from Monterey County to the Oregon border. According to contract documents, the database will be capable of handling at least 100 million records and be accessible to local and state law enforcement across the region. Law enforcement agencies from throughout Northern California will be able to access the data, as will state and federal authorities.

In the Bay Area, at least 32 government agencies use license-plate readers. The city of Piedmont decided to install them along the border with Oakland, and the Marin County enclave of Tiburon placed plate scanners and cameras on two roads leading into and out of town. Law enforcement agencies from throughout the region also have adopted the technology. Police in Daly City, Milpitas and San Francisco have all signed agreements to provide data from plate readers to the Northern California Regional Intelligence Center. A Piedmont document indicates that city is also participating, along with Oakland, Walnut Creek, Alameda and the California Highway Patrol.

Too many details? Katz-Lacabe believes the records of his movements are too revealing about someone who has done nothing wrong. With the technology, he said, "you can tell who your friends are, who you hang out with, where you go to church, whether you've been to a political meeting." Lt. Randall Brandt of the San Leandro police said, "It's new technology, we're learning as we go, but it works 100 times better than driving around looking for license plates with our eyes." The intelligence center database will store license plate records for up to two years, regardless of data retention limits set in place by local police departments.

Many cities use license-plate readers to enforce parking restrictions or identify motorists who run red lights. Police in New York City have used the readers to catch car thieves and scan parking lots to identify motorists with open warrants. Long Beach police detectives used scanner data to arrest five people for a 2010 homicide. Plate readers in Tiburon identified celebrity chef Guy Fieri's yellow Lamborghini in March 2011, which allegedly had been stolen from a San Francisco dealership by a teenager who embarked on a crime spree two years ago and now faces attempted murder charges. Sid Heal, a retired commander with the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department, oversaw the adoption of plate readers in his agency in the mid-2000s. Heal recalled the dramatic uptick the plate readers made in the auto-theft unit's productivity. "We found 10 stolen vehicles on the first weekend in 2005 with our antitheft teams," Heal said. "I had a hit within 45 minutes." Before, Heal said, police had to call license plates in to a dispatcher and wait to have the car verified as stolen. Plate readers, Heal said "are lightning fast in comparison" and allow officers to run up to 1,200 plates an hour, as opposed to 20 to 50 plates per day previously.

But Jennifer Lynch, a staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, said the Northern California database raises significant privacy concerns. "Because so many people in the Bay Area are mobile, it makes it that much more possible to track people from county to county," Lynch said. Then-state Sen. Joe Simitian introduced a bill last year that would have required California police to purge license plate data after 60 days and applied the rule to companies that collect such data. Law enforcement and private businesses involved in the technology resisted, and the bill died.

"Do we really want to maintain a database that tracks personal movements of law-abiding citizens in perpetuity? That's the fundamental question here," said Simitian, now a Santa Clara County supervisor. "Larger and larger amounts of data collected over longer periods of time provide a very detailed look at the personal movements of private citizens." Heal said that absent clear legal limits on license plate readers, law enforcement agencies will continue to expand their ability to gather such information. "A lot of the guidance on this technology - the court doctrine - is nonexistent," Heal said. "Until that guidance comes, law enforcement is in an exploratory mode."
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Jun 26, 2013 - 10:18pm PT
Bid deal, license plate readers. This technology first came about so parking meter compliance was made easier for the checker.

The fact that a license plate is 8" x 12" and on the front and back of your vehicle is like complaining about having your face on a billboard.

Mountain climber
Jun 26, 2013 - 10:28pm PT
Yeah, Jim. You're a law abiding citizen and have nothing to hide.

There are some privacy issues though. Interesting points here:

Even some cops have concerns about it.
...A report by the International Association of Chiefs of Police warns that "recording driving habits" could raise First Amendment concerns. It noted that plate readers might record "vehicles parked at addiction-counseling meetings, doctors' offices, health clinics, or even staging areas for political protests." The association urged members to consider establishing "more specific criteria for granting access" to the information and to designate it only for "official use."..

Trad climber
Jun 26, 2013 - 10:37pm PT
Kind of hard for a plate reader to scan my bike or footsteps... but, wait, I guess since I would be reading Monkey Wrench Gang on my iPhone while listening to Dead Kennedys on Pandora and tracking my mileage in Google Maps I might end up on a spreadsheet...

Try this, stop using credit cards... that will scare the sh#t out of them...

new world order2

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 5, 2013 - 10:39am PT
Sky Deutschland to broadcast adverts directly into train passengers' heads.


^^^One step away from an implanted chip.
new world order2

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2013 - 11:58am PT
GOOGLE plans on implanting chip in brains...

Gomes agrees that a chip embedded in the brain is far from a sci-fi fantasy. "


I hope you folks realize (when you're deciding whether to take one on or not)
that these units will have the ability to transmit both ways.
Dr. F.

Boulder climber
Jul 22, 2013 - 12:22pm PT
Where do I go to get my chip implanted?
I want to be the first on my block to have one!!

Boy will they have a field day with the stuff I will be transmitting back!
Messages 21 - 40 of total 64 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

Try a free sample topo!

SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews