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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
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Remove a LARGE population of 3rd world illegal people here and watch that number fall like a rock. Like in half or better.
So, I guess that's a cultural thing?
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 01:06pm PT
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There's no 'solving' the problem Chaz. There are mitigation steps, like more background checks, and ways to help track down perps. These won't pass cuz the repubs control the house.
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Jun 13, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
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Chicago, Detriot and East of the 405 in Cali is more dangerous than Mexico's cartel riff-raff. I think Ron is onto something about those third world peoples.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
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You tell me Survival..
Should be good news then, right Ron? I mean since it's mostly blacks and Mexicans shooting each other, there's no problem.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 13, 2013 - 01:44pm PT
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no reason to investigate gang murders
just them them keep killing each other so what
thins the herd
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
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Latest year with data is 2010
Car deaths (I suppose it includes suicides): 33,000
Gun deaths (including suicides) 32,000
Gun suicides alone: 19,000
The Slate article comes with a caveat
The Slate data comes from crowdsourcing and warns that it is “necessarily incomplete.” Authors of the tally call on readers to submit news stories to @GunDeaths.
I've seen the Slate data described previously, it's taken from news articles. Plenty of gun deaths never make the news, like the two gun suicides (one a friend, the other well known to me) in my neighborhood (about 200 people) in the past 7 years. So the real number of gun deaths since Dec 14 should be about 16,000 for 1/2 year.
The two numbers have been converging the past several years with auto deaths declining and gun deaths increasing.
Draw your own conclusions.
Back on topic
survival's original post is disturbing and truly mind-boggling.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 13, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
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"How many people died in car accidents during that same time period?
I'll bet it's more than 68."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence
"False equivalence is a logical fallacy which describes a situation where there is a logical and apparent equivalence, but when in fact there is none."
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 05:05pm PT
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Apogee,
Obviously it went right over your head.
Read this very slowly.
We're comparing accidents to accidents here.
Almost every single person killed in a car is killed completely by accident.
Damn few gun deaths are the result of accident ( 68 out of 32,000 ).
Remember one of the first rules of safe shooting: Be sure of your target.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 05:07pm PT
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Actually it's not a false equivalence when you consider the effort our society expends to reduce automobile fatalities compared to gun deaths.
Automobile fatalities were something like 50,000 per year in the '70s. And we've got many many more people driving longer distances now. Yet we've cut auto fatalities by 1/3.
When as a society we decide to tackle a major public safety problem, we generally have success.
Polio
Aids
Car deaths
If you like, you can practice unsafe sex, don't immunize your children and don't wear your seat belts. At least none of these things will affect my life.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 05:08pm PT
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Damn few gun deaths are the result of accident ( 68 out of 32,000 ). Got the data on that?
And now back to my original programming.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 05:32pm PT
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High Traverse writes:
"Got the data on that?
And now back to my original programming."
The numbers I found right here on this thread.
Monolith: "There's about 68 accidental shootings in the list"
And You: "Gun deaths (including suicides) 32,000"
I could probably challenge both numbers, if I felt like it. But I'll just argue one point at a time.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 05:42pm PT
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You've got to double the accidental deaths(6 month figures) and stop comparing to totals with suicide, or we get to count suicides as part of the gun problem.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
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I think they are.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
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Suicide means "kill yourself on purpose", doesn't it?
Can't lump suicides in with accidents.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 05:54pm PT
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That's what I'm saying Chaz. You said there are damn few accidental deaths cuz you compared them to figures with suicides. You should be comparing 150 to 4000. Not an insignificant amount.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
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Nope Coz, guns are an easy way to kill yourself. Try it with a sword.
While you are walking out on the bridge looking down, you just might reconsider. Sitting alone in the dark with a gun is another story.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
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I don't see a difference.
When you get to the point you're deciding on the method, it's probably too late.
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monolith
climber
SF bay area
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Jun 13, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
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Of course you wouldn't. (really, no different than a sword, lol)
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 13, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
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do we really need another gun thread?
No.
Although the number of gun deaths, no matter how you cut the semantics, in just a few months, compared to 10 years of war are a bit sobering aren't they?
Do we really need another thread of any kind?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jun 13, 2013 - 07:33pm PT
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Ron's primary 'source' is to pull shite outta his arse, then tell you to go google it yerself for 'proof'.
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