risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]


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Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jun 25, 2013 - 12:59am PT
Probably the closest thing to reality I have read.
Heh guys - your hero is in Mother Russia with gigabytes of intelligence info...
Jeepers .... When ya gonna wake up?



Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 25, 2013 - 12:59am PT
gigabytes of intelligence info

Again, more like gigabytes of program documentation, none of it particularly valuable to Russia, China, or anyone else other than it's use in painting us a something other than the 'Land of the Free' and that is a mirror we've turned on ourselves with no one else to blame. Again, bummer if we don't like what we see in the mirror.

And there's been more than enough whistle blowing over the past decade culminating in the Manning/Wikileaks affair for anyone with half a wit to figure out what the likely repercussions are going to be, who to best contact, and what represents as plausible an exit plan as possible (and those options are limited).

Now you can question his judgment on some of those calls, but given the number of cases where the media has been backed down and courts stonewalled by evidence being classified he must have known he wasn't going to get a fair day in court on a matter like this in the U.S. and that's also on us.

I personally think he thought it through about as well as one can given his decision meant an end to life as he knew it. And he's in a tough spot at this point, as I suspect Iceland isn't going to take him in given their financial situation and all the other alternatives are way downhill from there.

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 25, 2013 - 03:46am PT
azzhat is stalled in moscow. being debreifed no doubt. nothing more than a common traitor.

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 25, 2013 - 03:59am PT
Well, traitor would be one word for it, but I'd be using that word against half of BushCo before applying it to the likes of Snowden.

 Dick Cheney
 Donald Rumsfeld
 Paul Wolfowitz
 Douglas Feith
 Elliot Abrams
 Richard Armitage
 Richard Perle
 John Bolton
 John Yoo
 Alberto Gonzales
 Karl Rove

Traitors to a man...

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:12am PT
It is really simple. The guy had a top secret security clearance and he leaked a bunch of classified NSA sh#t = traitor

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:32am PT
A few of those bush azzhats fit the bill as well.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:59am PT
Joseph - I don't pretend to understand what's there but I can imagine all kinds of access and encryption knowledge - key knowledge on how to get into our data and how we achieve data, where it is, and a 1000 other things like this related to security.

From the report :
Those NSA files where merely a warm-up act and the main event will be much more damaging to the US and her allies. He will be selling national secrets of encryption capabilities, data gathering techniques and locations of signals intelligence stations located thought the world. To many people such ideas are meaningless as there is little public sympathy for even foreign spying operations given the current mistrust of government.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=716_1372049879#MAlhPxAvdUFetUCc.99

As the people in the know are saying - this is the worst security leak in American history .
And we probably only know 5 percent of it as nobody is going to be forth coming with the real secrets. That is what is so funny about all this - the silly sh#t he pretended this was about everyone already knew about...
This guy and his professional vids, and how he did this right under the nose of everyone.
He is good ....
He was holding more cards than we gave him credit for ...
No way a guy is holding this much information and foreign powers are not all over it ...
People get killed for a price of gum in this world and this guy has a buffet to offer.
He bought himself out of china and probably had this planned all along.
Virginia Wolf's instincts were going off correctly - she just added things up in the wrong direction
This is a full on selling of all our secrets to foreign powers - a traitor.

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 25, 2013 - 07:56am PT
i saw yesterday some new report of a whole 100K that have signed a petition for amnesty for snottface-snowden..Not a good batting average for billions.

Your average man is SICK of CHINA.. So in that vein, he couldnt have ran to a worse choice. He acted like the high school drop out he is.

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 25, 2013 - 11:41am PT
Those NSA files where merely a warm-up act and the main event will be much more damaging to the US and her allies. He will be selling national secrets of encryption capabilities, data gathering techniques and locations of signals intelligence stations located thought the world.

Highly unlikely. Again, our "encryption capabilities" and "data gathering techniques" are not particularly special, interesting, or secret.

All aspects of cryptography, including encryption attacks, are active fields of worldwide research and we have no particular corner on the best minds in the field, many of which hail from Russia and Israel. So scratch "encryption capabilities" off the list of things of interest Snowden might reveal.

Similarly, "data gathering techniques" are technically pedestrian at this point and the collection loci are patently obvious to anyone familiar with communications technologies. The combination of technology, infrastructure, and accessibility by and large dictate the location of "signals intelligence stations" and so their locations are not terribly difficult to deduce by anyone knowledgeable in the craft.

And data archiving and analysis are basically off-the-shelf and open source with the ability to operationally scale out data centers in a reliable manner being the real challenge (something we do well, but that can't be conveyed on a thumb drive).

All in all, the odds are slim Snowden has much of value beyond embarrassing program documentation and the primary damage he's doing is to our [self] image of the U.S. as a open society free from intrusive and overarching state apparatus.

Gold Canyon, AZ
Jun 25, 2013 - 11:53am PT
CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin made an interesting comment yesterday that I think is spot on. His comment was essentially that the Snowden affair is no longer a legal issue, but rather one of politics and foreign policy.


Jun 25, 2013 - 01:01pm PT
Lets hope those Commies have his balls hooked up to a very large generator of some sort and are getting the info they want via huge amounts of testicular pain.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 25, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
Seen on the back of a T-shirt of a fat man waddling into Walmart...
Your average man is SICK of CHINA.

China is the next big Boogeyman. Its no different than any other boogeyman... its the Big Baddie that reactionaries, crackpots, idealists and opportunists use to stir people into unthinking emotional responses.

China... BOO!


State of Mine
Jun 25, 2013 - 02:28pm PT
CNN's legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin made an interesting comment yesterday that I think is spot on. His comment was essentially that the Snowden affair is no longer a legal issue, but rather one of politics and foreign policy.


something we agree on. until they catch him it will be a huge political issue that the US is losing.

we look like a bunch of incompetents.


Putin Rules Out Extradition for Snowden in Russia Airport


Published: June 25, 2013 502 Comments

MOSCOW — President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia confirmed directly for the first time on Tuesday that Edward J. Snowden, the fugitive former American national security contractor, was staying temporarily in an international transit area at a Moscow airport, and Mr. Putin appeared to rule out American requests for his extradition to the United States.

Speaking at a news conference while on an official visit to Finland, Mr. Putin offered no new information on where Mr. Snowden might be headed from the transit area of Sheremetyevo Airport in Moscow, where he has been ensconced, out of public view, for the past two days. But he said Mr. Snowden had broken no Russian laws.

“Mr. Snowden is a free man,” Mr. Putin said, “and the sooner he chooses his final destination, the better it will be both for us and for him.”

Mr. Putin also said Mr. Snowden's arrival "was a complete surprise for us" and that as a transit passenger, “he doesn’t need a visa or other documents. As a transit passenger, he has a right to buy a ticket and fly wherever he wants.”

He sought to refute suggestions that Russian security officials might be talking to Mr. Snowden, who is believed to be carrying a trove of American intelligence data on laptop computers and thumb drives. Mr. Putin said they “have never worked with Mr. Snowden and are not working with him now.”

The remarks by Mr. Putin were the most definitive and extensive from the Russian government on Mr. Snowden, whose successful effort, so far, to elude his American pursuers has captivated global attention, showed the limits of American power and strained American relations with both Russia and China. Mr. Snowden flew to Moscow on Sunday from Hong Kong despite an American request that the authorities there arrest him.

Mr. Putin said American accusations that Russia was abetting a fugitive “are just a nightmare and nonsense,” and he appeared to end any possibility that Russia would extradite Mr. Snowden.

“We can extradite foreign nationals only to those countries with which we have relevant international agreements on the extradition of criminals,” Mr. Putin said. “We have no such agreement with the United States.”

While in Russian territory, Mr. Putin said, “Mr. Snowden, thank God, has not committed any crimes.”

Mr. Putin spoke hours after the Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, chastised the United States for its demands regarding Mr. Snowden, who has been charged with violating American espionage laws by revealing secret information on intelligence-gathering. He and his allies describe him as a whistle-blower whose revelations have exposed what they called the United States government’s invasion of privacy around the world.

Mr. Lavrov said Mr. Snowden had not crossed the Russian border, which appeared at first to be a denial that he was in Russia. But it also was a technical way of saying Mr. Snowden was in the international passenger transit area, a restricted zone where foreign travelers do not get their passports stamped and do not pass through immigration checkpoints as they await flight connections to other countries.

American officials, including Secretary of State John Kerry, lashed out with unusual force on Monday against China for allowing Mr. Snowden to leave Hong Kong, against Russia for permitting him safe transit and against Ecuador for declaring that it is actively considering Mr. Snowden’s request for political asylum. The Americans have demanded that he be seized and repatriated.

“He didn’t cross the Russian border, and we consider the attempts we are seeing to accuse the Russian side of violating United States law as completely ungrounded and unacceptable, or nearly a conspiracy accompanied by threats against us,” Mr. Lavrov said, speaking to reporters here after a meeting with the Algerian foreign minister. He added, “There are no legal grounds for this kind of behavior from American officials toward us.”

Later in the day Mr. Kerry, speaking to reporters while visiting Saudi Arabia, sought to tone down the angry exchange of words with his Russian counterpart, with whom he has sought to cultivate a good relationship. “We are not looking for a confrontation,” Mr. Kerry said.

The comments by Mr. Putin and Mr. Lavrov were the first by top Russian officials about Mr. Snowden since Mr. Snowden’s reported arrival at Sheremetyevo Airport in Moscow on Sunday. Employees of Aeroflot, the Russian airline, said Mr. Snowden had been booked on an afternoon flight Monday to Havana, but he did not board and the aircraft left without him.

Ecuador confirmed that it had received an asylum request and had provided documents allowing Mr. Snowden to travel there. Mr. Snowden’s American passport has been revoked.

Russian officials on Monday said that they had no information about Mr. Snowden, which seemed unlikely at the time given that the Russian police took the unusual step of standing on the tarmac surrounding the plane that reportedly was supposed to take him to Cuba. Russian authorities also cordoned off the gate and had threatened to take telephones from journalists preparing to board the flight.

The sharp tone of comments by Mr. Kerry and other American officials was surprising, in part because there was no reason to believe that they could force Russia to cooperate and because it is highly unlikely that, if the roles were reversed, the United States would readily repatriate a Russian fugitive security official reportedly carrying computers filled with government secrets.

The United States and Russia, fierce rivals on intelligence matters dating to the cold war, have long shown an ability to maintain their broader bilateral relationship in the face of occasional disputes over espionage incidents, including the arrest last month in Moscow of an American Embassy employee accused of working as an operative for the Central Intelligence Agency. But Mr. Lavrov’s pointed remarks indicated that the diplomatic contretemps was taking a nasty turn.

On Monday, the United States accused Russia of ignoring the law in allowing Mr. Snowden to travel through the Moscow airport and sharply criticized Russia, China and Ecuador over their records on Internet freedom.

Mr. Lavrov said on Tuesday, “We have no connection with Mr. Snowden, nor with his relation toward the American justice system, nor with his movement around the world. He chose his own route and we, like most of those here, found out about this from the press.”

The anti-secrecy organization WikiLeaks, which says it has helped Mr. Snowden evade the American authorities, has said that he is safe and healthy but has declined to pinpoint his whereabouts. The White House has said it believes that Mr. Snowden is still in Moscow.

American officials also openly mocked China and Russia on Monday as states that repress free speech and transparency and therefore are hardly apt refuges for someone fighting government secrecy in the United States.

“I wonder if Mr. Snowden chose China and Russia as assistants in his flight from justice because they’re such powerful bastions of Internet freedom,” Mr. Kerry said sarcastically during a stop in New Delhi.

President Obama’s press secretary, Jay Carney, said Mr. Snowden’s chosen destinations indicated “his true motive throughout has been to injure the national security of the United States.”

The strong words went beyond typical diplomatic language and underscored the growing ramifications of the case for the United States. The Obama administration’s inability, at least for now, to influence China, Russia and countries in Latin America that may accept Mr. Snowden for asylum, like Ecuador, brought home the limits of American power around the world.

Ecuador’s foreign minister, Ricardo Patiño, criticized the United States on Monday for its pursuit of Mr. Snowden. “The one who is denounced pursues the denouncer,” Mr. Patiño said at a news conference in Hanoi, Vietnam, a stop on a previously scheduled diplomatic visit to Asia. “The man who tries to provide light and transparency to issues that affect everyone is pursued by those who should be giving explanations about the denunciations that have been presented.”

Ecuador’s president, Rafael Correa, wrote on his Twitter account, “We will analyze very responsibly the Snowden case and with absolute sovereignty will make the decision we consider the most appropriate.” The United States remains Ecuador’s leading trading partner, but Washington’s influence in Quito has been slight since Mr. Correa became president in 2007. He has repeatedly flouted and tweaked the United States, by, for example, stopping American antidrug flights out of a military base in Manta, and expelling the American ambassador in 2011 after WikiLeaks cables suggested she felt Mr. Correa had tolerated police corruption.

A range of American officials, including the deputy secretary of state and the F.B.I. director, spent Monday reaching out to their Russian counterparts seeking cooperation, without any apparent result. Mr. Snowden, who spent Sunday night in the transit zone of Sheremetyevo Airport, did not board the flight for Havana and he made no public appearance or statement.

American intelligence officials remained deeply concerned that Mr. Snowden could make public more documents disclosing details of the National Security Agency’s collection system or that his documents could be obtained by foreign intelligence services, with or without his cooperation.

Technical experts have been carrying out a forensic analysis of the trail he left in N.S.A. computer systems, trying to determine what he had access to as a systems administrator for Booz Allen Hamilton, a United States government contractor, and what he may have downloaded, officials said.

The South China Morning Post reported Monday night on its Web site that in an interview, Mr. Snowden said he had specifically sought the job at Booz Allen so he could collect information about the N.S.A.'s secret surveillance programs to release to news outlets.

Glenn Greenwald, a columnist for The Guardian, has said Mr. Snowden gave him thousands of documents, only a tiny fraction of which were published. Many may be of limited public interest, but they could be of great value to a foreign intelligence service, which could get a more complete idea of the security agency’s technical abilities and how to evade its net, officials said.

David M. Herszenhorn reported from Moscow, Peter Baker from Washington and Rick Gladstone from New York. Reporting was contributed by Ellen Barry and Andrew Roth from Moscow; Scott Shane, Steven Lee Myers and Charlie Savage from Washington; Michael R. Gordon from Jidda, Saudi Arabia; William Neuman from Quito, Ecuador; and Victoria Burnett from Havana.


Jun 25, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
Nobody knows whats going on behind this whole thing.

Just 1600 news outlets all owned by 6 news corporations all guessing and making up sh!t.

Americans are so s ........


Sport climber
Jun 25, 2013 - 03:52pm PT
Correct. There could well be deception piled on deception going on.

Snowden's laptops and flash sticks could well be JUST BAIT and loaded with variants of the STUXNET virus hoping to get uploaded into the moscow secure backbone.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 25, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
we look like a bunch of incompetents.

You're in on the search???!!!

Patrick Sawyer

Originally California now Ireland
Jun 25, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
My big beef? Who puts up a post where I have to scroll to the right to see other people's posts?

As inconsiderate as a whistleblower.


Somebody call me a whaambulance

Jun 25, 2013 - 04:02pm PT
Snowden flies to Ecuador and the US will launch surface to air missile and blow up his plane and blame it on Muslims?

Jun 25, 2013 - 04:10pm PT

All the Snowden fans seem to have packed it in, apparently

"Glenn Greenwald, a columnist for The Guardian, has said Mr. Snowden gave him thousands of documents, only a tiny fraction of which were published. Many may be of limited public interest, but they could be of great value to a foreign intelligence service, which could get a more complete idea of the security agency’s technical abilities and how to evade its net, officials said."


He's practically an enemy combatant at this point - Al-Qaeda would welcome him with open arms

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jun 25, 2013 - 04:35pm PT
June 25, 2013

Self-Pacification of the American Citizenry
Edward J. Snowden and the Exposure of Voyeuristic Fascism

in the last two weeks—a sliver of time as wars and the violation of civil liberties go—America has suddenly lost face, stature, and the moral high ground it has always claimed, and stands exposed, more than in Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, to the world’s and its own people’s understanding as the invader of human dignity and privacy, priceless attributes distinguishing democracy from totalitarianism.


Snowden enters the picture, surprisingly aware of all that is at stake, as witness his eloquent statements about how the denial of civil liberties negates and repudiates a democratic society, and from there, recognizes the magnitude of crime associated with surveillance. An individual, alone, powerless at the outset, has spoken out, and doing so, has shaken the foundations of power. This, more than a high point in the record of whistle-blowers, though intimately related to it, marks an epochal moment in the history of American freedom—or the search for it! It mustn’t be allowed to slip by as a result of the chorus of denunciation, from POTUS on down through all the usual suspects, Democrats and Republicans alike. Snowden has raised privacy into the pantheon of constitutional rights it deserves to be, as the index of societal health and individual personhood—something all the nefarious interventions, drone strikes, CIA-JSOC missions of subversion, indefinite detentions, have sought to obliterate from the popular consciousness, and until now, partially succeeded in doing.
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