risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 5, 2013 - 02:17am PT
As we've gone over numerous times on this thread, they are storing much more than metadata.


Curt, why are you trying to tone down what is being done?

So whatever else you say they are collecting is equivalent to millions being murdered?

What else is it that they are collecting anyway?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 5, 2013 - 03:29am PT
Why the Ruling Class is So Upset About Edward Snowden
by GARY LEUPP

I don’t have a weak stomach, but I confess that watching TV news does get me nauseated. So I do so sparingly. I have of course been following the coverage of the Edward Snowden story, just to see how opinion is being shaped.

In the days immediately after June 5, when Snowden revealed that the U.S. government daily collects meta-data of all phone call records in the U.S. and beyond, the cable news networks seemed puzzled about how to deal with the story.

They couldn’t very well denounce Snowden out of hand, lest they be accused of being shameless lackeys of the state (even though that’s in fact what they are). They all like to posture as “fair and balanced,” so they did initially pose the question: is Snowden a hero, or a villain?

Early opinion polls showed considerable support for Snowden’s action; a Time poll released June 13 showed 54% of those surveyed in the U.S. thought he’d done the right thing. Some unlikely people (Bill O’Reilly, Glenn Beck) called Snowden a “hero.” But that may be changing, as the networks now compete with one another to generate outrage—not at the spying, mind you, but at Snowden for violating the law. O’Reilly’s current position is that while a hero, Snowden should be placed on trial and judged by a jury. Which is to say, he should be apprehended abroad, brought back in handcuffs and treated to the same benefits of the U.S. judicial system enjoyed by a Bradley Manning or a Guantanamo detainee.

He broke the law! He told us: “Any analyst at any time can target anyone.”

“He took an oath,” thunders Dianne Feinstein, chair of the Senate Intelligence Committee (and thus someone complicit in the spying programs). What she means by this is that he broke his pledge, made when he became an employee of the CIA contractor Booz Allen Hamilton—which helps handle the massive effort to monitor all of us daily—to conceal any secrets he obtained as an employee. She is of course not referring to the oath he made at the same time, to uphold the Constitution of the United States, which says very clearly that “the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated…”

Snowden has not merely revealed that the U.S. government has forced service providers Microsoft, Yahoo, Google, Facebook, PalTalk, AOL, Skype, YouTube and Apple to share all their records with itself, in the form of meta-data that can only be accessed for content following the issuance of warrants from (secret) courts, in order to thwart real or imagined terrorist plots.

He hasn’t merely shown that the NSA intercepts 1.7 billion electronic records every day (in order, of course, to thwart the terrorists). He has charged the following:

“Any analyst at any time can target anyone. Any selector, anywhere… I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the President…”

He is referring to tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of employees of the state security apparatus. (The numbers are of course secret.)

That was and is the main story. Obama may say, “No one is listening to your phone calls,” and acknowledge, now that Snowden has come forward, that the government “merely” has available for perusal (following clandestine court procedures that secretly authorize such inspection) all of your telecommunications addresses and locations, all of your email and online contacts, lists of all the sites you visit online such that an analyst may sit at his desk with this comprehensive picture of your life but no access to the content of your communications. That’s bad enough.

But Snowden indicates that those with that power can indeed gain access to what Bill Clinton recently called the “meat” of your communications. That is, every word you’ve spoken on the phone recently, or maybe for several years; or test-messaged or instant-messaged online; can be accessed by government “analysts” at their whim.

Now why should this bother anybody? A virtual industry of bloggers has mushroomed overnight, people boasting, in the wake of Snowden’s revelations, that they have nothing to hide. Why should anybody not doing wrong be concerned?

Well, recall how, in 2008, ABC News revealed that National Security Agency staffers enjoyed monitoring satellite phone sex involving U.S. officers in Iraq. It’s worth quoting at length.

“‘These were just really everyday, average, ordinary Americans who happened to be in the Middle East, in our area of intercept and happened to be making these phone calls on satellite phones,’ said Adrienne Kinne, a 31-year old US Army Reserves Arab linguist assigned to a special military program at the NSA’s Back Hall at Fort Gordon from November 2001 to 2003.

Kinne described the contents of the calls as ‘personal, private things with Americans who are not in any way, shape or form associated with anything to do with terrorism.’ [...]

Another intercept operator, former Navy Arab linguist, David Murfee Faulk, 39, said he and his fellow intercept operators listened into hundreds of Americans picked up using phones in Baghdad’s Green Zone from late 2003 to November 2007.

‘Calling home to the United States, talking to their spouses, sometimes their girlfriends, sometimes one phone call following another,’ said Faulk. [...]

‘Hey, check this out,’ Faulk says he would be told, ‘there’s good phone sex or there’s some pillow talk, pull up this call, it’s really funny, go check it out. It would be some colonel making pillow talk and we would say, ‘Wow, this was crazy,’ Faulk told ABC News.”

If that’s the way NSA analysts could deal with U.S. military officers in Iraq—fellow cogs in the system, fighting on behalf of U.S. imperialism—how much respect do you suppose they have for you and your privacy? For your security from their searches, their violations?

But the main issue is not your protection from phone-sex interlopers, but protection from those who want to do you harm. The FBI’s “Counterintelligence Program” (COINTELPRO), active from 1956 to 1971, collected information through wiretaps and other means with the specific objective of destroying civil rights and left-wing organizations. One of its stated missions was to use surveillance on activists to release negative personal information to the public to discredit them. In many instances the agents succeeded, and they ruined lives. And their abilities to do so pale in comparison with the abilities of Obama’s NSA.

Tens of Thousands of Spooks, with Access to Your Data

Snowden says that his personal history should not be the issue in the media, but rather his revelations. Certainly this is true. But his history is a part of this story. It shows that the monitoring of personal communications is so vast, requiring so much labor power, that those overseeing it enlist even high school dropouts without formal academic credentials to do what they do.

(I do not mention this out of any disrespect for Snowden. On the contrary, I think he’s obviously highly intelligent and plainly very competent at his former job. One can question the wisdom, judgment and political consciousness of Snowden at age 21, when he joined the Army as a Special Forces recruit thinking he’d fight in Iraq, as he put it, “to help free people from oppression,” or his subsequent involvement with the CIA. But I think he’s extremely bright, and more than that, at this point in his life, a real moral exemplar.)

What I mean is that the demand for “analysts” in this data-collecting apparatus is so vast that those running it are surely signing on some people who have excellent computer skills but little understanding of anything else, are control-freaks, bigots, voyeurs (like those referenced above)… And they have ready access to your information.

Just as one example of ignorance within this stratum: after 9/11 a friend of mine was visited by FBI agents inquiring about a recent computer game purchase. She and her husband answered all the questions posed, but she was astounded by the agents’ lack of sophistication. They asked where the couple was from; India, they replied. “Is that a Muslim country?” they were asked. My friend was both intimidated and amused by the visit. She’d assumed U.S. intelligence personnel would have some basic grasp of geography and history.

Imagine such people accessing your personal information with impunity, thinking, well, here’s a reason to investigate—and doing it even if only just to pass (well-paid) time at their desks?

Remember the “Information Awareness Office” under Admiral John Poindexter, set up by a mysterious agency in the Defense Department in January 2002, and its creepy “Total Information Awareness” program? The one with the weird icon of an eye atop a pyramid, staring down at the planet, illuminating the Greater Middle East? That was specifically advertized as a body to gather personal information on everybody in the country—phone records, emails, medical records, credit card records, etc.—so that all this could be made immediately available to law officials when required and without warrants. It generated unease, even during that period in which the Bush-Cheney administration was systematically using fear to justify all kinds of repressive measures. It was defunded by Congress the following year. But the mentality remained, and Congress notwithstanding, the machinery of “total” surveillance obviously grew, along with the culture of secrecy.

In 2004 there were reports, citing Russian intelligence, that the former East German spy chief Markus Wolf had been hired as a consultant by U.S. Homeland Security. I have not found confirmation of them (and Wolf is now dead.) But I thought at the time it was entirely plausible that the Bush administration would be willing to learn a thing or two about domestic spying from the experts of the former Stasi. What ruling elite has ever gained more total information awareness about its citizens than the old German Democratic Republic? And done it with such elegant legal scaffolding?

Legal, Like East Germany

As historians such as Katherine Pence and Paul Betts have shown, the GDR authorities operated within scrupulously observed legal constraints. One sees this in the film Das Leben der Anderen (The Lives of Others) produced in the reunited Germany in 2006. It depicts the surveillance culture of the former East Germany, leaving the viewer nauseated. As it happens, the protagonist, a popular writer and regime loyalist named Georg Dreyman, is subjected to meticulous surveillance. His home is thoroughly bugged; an agent reports on his conversations, visitors, love-making, etc. He is never charged with anything nor punished. At one point his apartment is raided on a suspicion that he’s authored an article critical of the GDR published in the west. He cooperates politely; nothing is found; the authorities leave money for the repair of furniture they’d torn up. Everything according to law.

I thought of that film while reading the lead Boston Globe editorial on June 13. It concludes that the “policies that [Snowden revealed], however objectionable, are properly authorized” while Snowden himself “broke the law.” Thus, you see, he’s not a whistle-blower but a criminal. The editors call for him to be placed on trial, as do virtually all mainstream journalists. I should not be shocked, but it is quite amazing to see Keith Olbermann’s successor, MSNBC’s “progressive” Ed Schultz join the crowd, labeling Snowden a “punk” and lawbreaker. (Chris Hayes however remains, somewhat timidly, pro-Snowden.)

The message to the masses is: How dare Mr. Snowden tell the people that they are virtually naked in the eyes of the state, that the U.S. of A. has become one huge airport body-scanner! Because in so doing he betrays state secrets, and helps the terrorists who will now take more precautions to escape surveillance.

And how dare he tell the Chinese that Tsinghua University and the Hong Kong headquarters of Pacnet have been hacked by the NSA, even as the U.S. has accused the Chinese of hacking (in all likelihood, in response to U.S. actions, and less effective, and on a smaller scale)! How dare he consort with the “enemy”!

U.S. to World: “You Must View Snowden as a Criminal, and Give Him Back”

Suddenly, the Cold War has reappeared. Snowden is charged with espionage, some of his critics alleging that he’s in the service of the PRC and/or Russia or other “enemies.” It in fact appears that Beijing and Moscow both were taken by surprise by this episode, and that both have attempted to handle Snowden’s unexpected presence carefully to avoid annoying the U.S.

But how should they respond to Washington’s logic, thoroughly embraced by the TV talking heads? “Look,” says the U.S. State Department, expecting the world to cower and obey. “This man has been charged with felonies. We’ve gone through the legal process, through treaties we have with other countries, to have him appropriately returned to face justice. We’ve revoked his passport, so he can’t legally travel, except to be returned to the U.S. So damn it, do the right thing. Turn him over!”

That’s supposed to be convincing? The media’s complaining of Russian “defiance.” Senator Chuck Schumer appeared on some show suggesting that Putin never misses an opportunity to “poke America in the eye” (referring no doubt to Russian refusal to cooperate in “regime change” in Syria, and refusal to toe the U.S.-Israeli line on Iran). But imagine if a Russian in the U.S. revealed to a U.S. paper that Putin had a massive surveillance program, and Putin demanded his immediate extradition for breaking Russian law? How would the U.S. public react?

Kerry’s talking tough. He’s demanding that Putin not allow Snowden to fly out the country (presumably to Ecuador via Cuba). His tough talk might explain the reported fact that Snowden missed his planned Monday flight out of Moscow. (Might he have threatened to force the Aeroflot plane to land in the U.S.?)

It all, in my humble opinion, boils down to this. The entirety of the ruling elite and the journalistic establishment are keen on defending the programs Snowden has exposed; keen on punishing him for his whistle-blowing; determined to vilify him as a punk, narcissist, egoist, attention-hungry ne’er-do-well (anything but a thoughtful man who made a moral choice that has enlightened people about the character of the U.S. government); feverishly working on damage control while anticipating more damning revelations; and determined to get those four laptops with their incriminating content back into the bosom of the national security state.

What sort of state is it, that says to its own people, we can invade a country based on lies, kill a million people, hold nobody accountable but hey, when one of us does something so abominable as to reveal that the state spies constantly on the people of the world, we have to have a “manhunt” for him and punish him for treason?

The Director of National Intelligence, James Clapper, has the audacity to tell NBC News, “It is literally gut-wrenching to see” Snowden’s revelations… because of the “damage” they do to “our intelligence capabilities”! As though there were really an “our” or “us” at this point. As though we were a nation united, including the mindful watchers and the grateful watched.

No, there are us, and there are them. The tiny power elite that controls the mainstream press and cable channels, the corporations that dutifully hand over meta-data to the state (and then deny doing so to allay consumer outrage), the twin political parties, are sick to their stomachs that they’ve been so exposed.

We in our turn should feel, if not terrorized, nauseated.

GARY LEUPP is Professor of History at Tufts University, and holds a secondary appointment in the Department of Religion.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2013 - 11:01am PT
Records of calls (not content) simply aren't subject to 4th amendment protection, any more than a record of you walking down a public street is.
--jhedge

OK, but now that you know they are collecting the content too, how do you feel about the program? And why do you keep trying to dumb-down what the the NSA is collecting?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
Joe, you are acting a fool. It is not my privacy I'm worried about.


johnboy, in case you missed it (first posted upstream by Dingus):

Hints surface that NSA building massive, pervasive surveillance capability

By Greg Gordon
McClatchy Washington Bureau
Published: Tuesday, Jul. 2, 2013 - 4:36 pm

"WASHINGTON -- Despite U.S. intelligence officials’ repeated denials that the National Security Agency is collecting the content of domestic emails and phone calls, evidence is mounting that the agency’s vast surveillance network can and may already be preserving billions of those communications in powerful digital databases."

Link: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/07/02/5540897/hints-surface-that-nsa-building.html#storylink=cpy




Read the article and see what's up the NSA's sleeve. And no, it ain't legal, but you won't see anybody fight it because you can't sue the federal gov't. Especially if you're going against a secret branch that you aren't supposed to know about.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Interesting to note that the previous paranoia over metadata collection has been abandoned in favor of one that involves a smaller likelihood of your privacy being violated - voice analysis as compared to data analysis being by far the more time-consuming process.

Strawman. Who ever said anything about voice analysis?


Much more worried about a major pop center being nuked, and about the influence those who seem to think that's impossible might have, and how the consequences of them being proven wrong are one hell of a lot worse that the consequences of me being proven wrong.

Looks like the fear machine has gotten to you. Is it time to invade Iraq again?
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
Joe, we can look at history and see how totalitarianism gov'ts held the population at bay through surveillance. In fact, we can look at our own gov't and see this very thing.


So far, terrorists have used small, improvised weapons. And you scream Nukes!


While I can point to history, you can only point to your out-of-control fear.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 5, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
The ACLU is suing the feds over this as we speak.

and damn right they should!

I have been an ACLU member for over 20 years and while I may not agree with every damn thing they do, they are constantly on the ball and fighting in court to protect American's Civil Rights

and make no mistake about it, many of today rights taken for granted were won in courtrooms by the ACLU

everyone should be a member
ncrockclimber

climber
The Desert Oven
Jul 5, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
and make no mistake about it, many of today rights taken for granted were won in courtrooms by the ACLU

everyone should be a member

Worth repeating.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
Jul 5, 2013 - 02:59pm PT

Look Dick and I are trying our hardest to shred everything as fast as we can but you have to give my boss credit for being slow since he has heart problems. As for all the Iran crap and Rex 84 that is long gone.
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jul 5, 2013 - 03:08pm PT
... and to the history of recent terrorist attacks and thwarted attempts here as well. Some of which were thwarted by the very program you're complaining about.

The success of the government programs should not be the sole means of evaluating them. Otherwise random home searches in high crime areas would become legal since they are sure to help reduce crime.

Of course the ends do justify some means but the people who worry about the feds getting out of control with spying on Americans are a necessary part of democracy. The ACLU is also an important part because without those people, who you might call paranoid, the government would do more national spying and we would have more surveillance; we would become oppressed. It is natural for the government to grow itself until it is out of control and only through extreme measures, like the ACLU and a small amount of paranoia, can be keep it as small as possible for as long as possible.

I have done nothing wrong. You might say that I should not care of the government is spying on me but I say that they have no reason to sly on me and therefore should not be doing it. Then again, I think that checkpoints to check for drunk drivers is unconstitutional since I am stopped without probable cause.

Be a little paranoid or they will eventually be after you.

Dave
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
Lovegasoline, +1




Related:

Addressing the "bulk collections" of internet metadata conducted from 2001-2011 revealed last week, U.S. Senators Wyden and Mark Udall (D-Colo.), members of the Senate Intelligence Committee, issued a statement on Tuesday warning that intelligence officials misrepresented the effectiveness of the program. They wrote, in part:

Intelligence officials have noted that the bulk email records program was discussed with both Congress and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court. In our judgment it is also important to note that intelligence agencies made statements to both Congress and the Court that significantly exaggerated this program’s effectiveness. This experience demonstrates to us that intelligence agencies’ assessments of the usefulness of particular collection programs – even significant ones – are not always accurate. This experience has also led us to be skeptical of claims about the value of the bulk phone records collection program in particular.

We believe that the broader lesson here is that even though intelligence officials may be well-intentioned, assertions from intelligence agencies about the value and effectiveness of particular programs should not simply be accepted at face value by policymakers or oversight bodies any more than statements about the usefulness of other government programs should be taken at face value when they are made by other government officials. It is up to Congress, the courts and the public to ask the tough questions and press even experienced intelligence officials to back their assertions up with actual evidence, rather than simply deferring to these officials’ conclusions without challenging them.

Spokesman Tom Caiazza added that Wyden "is deeply troubled by a number of misleading statements senior officials have made about domestic surveillance in the past several years."
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Jul 5, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
Silly me...

you can sue the us government. now here is the kicker. you have to have their permission to sue them. as dumb as it sounds it is the truth

And this:

link: Suing Your Federal Government for Civil Rights Violations



In other, related, news:

As Manning's defense team prepares to present their case next week, they are hoping Manning's prospects have risen after the government was forced to close their portion of the trial with an "embarrassing admission" that the Army had misplaced Manning's military contract, the Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), which laid out the terms of his access to classified information.
J man

Trad climber
morgan hill
Jul 5, 2013 - 04:21pm PT
Time to go secure. And yes you know what the key is already.

use
http://www.topsecretemail.com/encrypt_result.cfm
to decode the following

41B42202D7C57113908F5B85B9C999DF72BDEB55CCEEE9BD83B3DE8F8BBDF
6FC12831BA296EA528A827DA774D2D438E87B929995E1AB983DD38DAB0AD1B7A9AC


To decode the above:
1.copy and paste into the topsecretemail text box.
2. you need to remove one line break. Do a [backspace]
before the 6 at the beginning of the second line.

This is just a kindness so ST page does not think I posted a giant picture.

3. type in the unique decode key you have guessed. click decode now.
J man

Trad climber
morgan hill
Jul 5, 2013 - 04:28pm PT
72A799A3C6DD8FB0C5839C9D93E9EEFC5CDD5A99CD4609008A949E7D2BDEF5CB1EA8A55680DBEB9B9F9553A6CC9200906C0498DFD6EFCA51861F04955FC28E
FE3CB6866A72DF9782A5C690F556DE8C95A8748AC77DB988B8B25C8AC907864B518A89D3848FC740A7F09A1D1E99AEC2819C59FB464C801A919AB3FF06B8AD3B
11C8B41707CCF30F82FF58A478BCFEE11940868AECCA883F57B45BAC94A3965B0E925888D09B720152F9B69C88FC9B116D5B58C6B48E9D9F9D1EFC478E8442FB
D0F4B89E1391B48B0BD5B985018E13AE1F7FAB13905C49D69A3D41CE925914BF9EF3E95C3F52B6D5DD08FF899A868ABAD59089FC85569C9A51FE98509B9388269
D77ECBBD59A17AC70740799EF9FE5C6829CBD8ABD5F48BC868E35969B8F05B94BB2F0865D13FF189B8441ED10079EAE85E3559FB19D069886B7909012ED9F8985
449BD6AF97F79F809259977313BEB2F9138E97FE5F3B54A35E05FCC0



and yes do a [backspace]at the beginning of all lines but the first before
doing the decoding. For this post you'll need to remove 5 line breaks. Maybe easier to do that in wordpad then paste it into topsecretemail
J man

Trad climber
morgan hill
Jul 5, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
7FAADCA98EDF82B2C585939981E9E3FB4CDD4A8498530F599F929333258ABCDE56BDA15FD988FC8ADE8050AACC9F1C9A7E
johnboy

Trad climber
Can't get here from there
Jul 5, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
johnboy, in case you missed it (first posted upstream by Dingus):

Hints surface that NSA building massive, pervasive surveillance capability

By Greg Gordon
McClatchy Washington Bureau
Published: Tuesday, Jul. 2, 2013 - 4:36 pm

"WASHINGTON -- Despite U.S. intelligence officials’ repeated denials that the National Security Agency is collecting the content of domestic emails and phone calls, evidence is mounting that the agency’s vast surveillance network can and may already be preserving billions of those communications in powerful digital databases."

I know I'm rather daft and inept, but isn't all of that just more "metadata"?
You said they were storing much more than metadata, and that's why I asked you what else it was that you thought they were collecting.

As we've gone over numerous times on this thread, they are storing much more than metadata.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Jul 5, 2013 - 09:28pm PT
full of righteous idealism, and now is quite scared

gets my vote
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 5, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
His sentence has already begun.
abrams

Sport climber
Jul 5, 2013 - 11:44pm PT
I feel quite safe being protected by 50,000 spook wannabees swiveling their butts in vast cubical partitioned offices, each bored to death hoping to come across a hot phone sex call they can all conference in on.
Job satisfaction is good at the NSA.

abrams

Sport climber
Jul 5, 2013 - 11:57pm PT
Hopefully you know something social climber or just trying
to scare us by revealing how well you've been brainwashed by their propaganda?
Messages 721 - 740 of total 1468 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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