risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 21, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
Pardon Edward Snowden | We the People: Your Voice in Our Government

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/pardon-edward-snowden/Dp03vGYD
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 22, 2013 - 01:00am PT
Signed.
Bargainhunter

climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 01:19am PT
Signed it too. Think it will make a difference if millions sign it?
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Jun 22, 2013 - 07:09am PT
"British spy agency collects and stores vast quantities of global email messages, Facebook posts, internet histories and calls, and shares them with NSA, latest documents from Edward Snowden reveal"

"The Americans were given guidelines for its use, but were told in legal briefings by GCHQ lawyers: "We have a light oversight regime compared with the US".

When it came to judging the necessity and proportionality of what they were allowed to look for, would-be American users were told it was "your call".

The Guardian understands that a total of 850,000 (?) NSA employees and US private contractors with top secret clearance had access to GCHQ databases.

The documents reveal that by last year GCHQ was handling 600m "telephone events" each day, had tapped more than 200 fibre-optic cables and was able to process data from at least 46 of them at a time."


The article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/21/gchq-cables-secret-world-communications-nsa
nah000

climber
canuckistan
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 22, 2013 - 09:56am PT
in case there is any doubt about obama's "evolution." this is from 2007:



obama now equates secret courts making sweeping decisions affecting millions of americans with "transparency." and that's only to focus on what has been confirmed.

i apologize, in advance, for the following rant directed at the american citizen who assumes, without trial, what their gov't tells them: that snowden is a "traitor." my problem is, i have found the u.s. to be such an incredible and inspirational country with regard to much of its history, its land and its people, that it's hard to not have a fair bit of vitriol when it comes to commenting on the path american leaders have led the american public down post 9/11.

<rant>

i read a der spiegel editorialist who made the following obvious but important point within this context: "The US is, for the time being, the only global power -- and as such it is the only truly sovereign state in existence. All others are dependent -- either as enemies or allies."

if you believe that the head of the current u.s. corporatocracy is concerned about this leak because its spying capabilities were exposed to either china, or europe, or even "al queda" you are being played for a fool.

we now have confirmation that the nsa is working hand in hand with the u.k.'s gchq, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that there are a lot of other western powers on the same list of cooperating intelligence gatherers [including canada's].

if you don't think the chinese elite knew about what the nsa was capable of, again, wake the f*#k up. china had what was thought to be the largest and most sophisticated state wide censorship and spying infrastructure on the planet. the only reason i put that in the past tense, is because it turns out the u.s. is giving them a real run for their money for the title of "largest and most sophisticated."

and i guarantee osama, et al weren't going to the trouble of using memory keys and runners, because they underestimated the capabilities of the u.s. military/intelligence complex.

no, the primary reason obama, et al are going and will go after snowden with every tool in their toolbox [smear campaigns, legal and possibly even extra legal methods] is that he exposed this to the american public.

because, at this point, the ONLY viable threat to the ruling power structure of the world's sole superpower, is you: the american public.

and while i hate to channel my inner palin, if you think that the bush/obama "led" empire's primary concern is main street, just look at who got bailed out and is already prospering, and who didn't and is still paying for the most recent crisis.

if the american public shoots the messenger and allows snowden to go down, you will prove deserving of everything that is being done to you and will continue to be done to you.

and if the above doesn't make any sense to you, it's okay, just repeat after me:

"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."

</rant>
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 22, 2013 - 10:07am PT
that jackwagon didnt expose anything we werent aware of. Ive been slinging poo at the NDAA2013 since before its passing. Just from looking at the titles of the various sections, one came away with a chilled perspective on our gubbmint. Even those drones they told us wouldnt be flying over head are doing just that..


The commander j-wagon in chief sure has "changed" his tune now eh? In fat a 180 degree turn to be exact. Hope and change, was HIS mantra, and not for us. He HOPED we wouldnt notice his CHANGE....
new world order2

climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 10:09am PT
Wow! healyje signed a petition to have Snowden pardoned? Is this correct?

Supertopo's resident Communist has sided with having a freedom fighter pardoned? This can't be right.
Is it the lack of fluoride in your drinking water, healyje? Poor, poor fellow.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 22, 2013 - 10:12am PT
snottface snowden COULD have handled it like a hero, but he chose instead to handle it like a ZERO.. Dont run to a commy kuntry then ask for forgiveness.
new world order2

climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 10:18am PT
Ron, I don't understand why you are poo poo-ing Snowden?

The guy is exposing the corruption that is government surveillance.
Do you want CCTV cameras on every street corner? There are plans to have light poles with cameras and microphones on said, every street corner.
Do you want to live in the reality that is 1984? What?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 22, 2013 - 10:25am PT
Nooo, if you read what i said,, it wast the action he took, but HOW he took it. Much like my tribe of Choctaw ancestors- they didnt put up with "spys" either.

If you want to expose shitty things within our govt, you do NOT run to the direct competition to do so. I dont buy that for a second. That crap was bought and paid for. Again, its not what he did but how he did it that garners zero respect from me. As bad as WE are, do you really run to somewhere far WORSE than us to give them the scoop? No.. you dont. China is basically a slave run country. Not some first world compassionate caring country. That stinks imho. He wanted to have his cake and eat it too which is NOT a tru patriots calling card either. Just another for sale spy.



Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 22, 2013 - 10:39am PT
Again,, ive been against the NDAA 2013 legislation before it was passed.

I hate the spying and illegal actions against the citizenry here. ESPECIALLY when the FBI has a watch list a mile long. And then immigration keeps allowing all in from those war torn countries that involve radical islam. TSA will NOT search an obvious ME looking person in FEAR of having some lawsuit filed against them but they will strip search granny and her grandkid from Michigan. All of this has been going on for quite a while.

What is alarming is that it takes some ridiculous incident like a spy to wake americans up..
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jun 22, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
NWO: Wow! healyje signed a petition to have Snowden pardoned? Is this correct?

You really don't follow along very well...
WTF

climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 02:25pm PT
New world order duex

Uh there is a camera on every street corner look up at the traffic light. That's not a camera for accidents brother. That's big brother already watching you.

Wake up and catch up things are moving at a pace towards full time surveillance like never before.

Personally I hope they hang this guy. He has put us all in danger.
new world order2

climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 03:22pm PT
You really don't follow along very well...

Whew! For a minute there, I thought you had changed allegiance.

Thanks for not disappointing me.

What do your neighbors think about the hammer and sickle banner in your front yard?
jghedge

climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 05:11pm PT
I love how the anti-surveillance crowd tries to justify it's opposition by claiming that "you have as much chance of being in a terrorist attack as you do of being hit by lightning", when the terrorist's stated goals are to nuke Amreican cities. Lowers the odds a bit, eh?

Everyone knows the telcos and ISP's (same thing) are already using all your data for commercial and marketing purposes. Why is that OK, but using it for counter-terrorism intel isn't?
new world order2

climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 05:30pm PT
Everyone knows the telcos and ISP's (same thing) are already using all your data for commercial and marketing purposes. Why is that OK, but using it for counter-terrorism intel isn't?

It's not "OK". Not for telcos, nor for counter-terrorism.

NSA surveillance is an attack on the Fourth Amendment.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Why do you hate America, Joe? North Korea will gladly take you in.
jghedge

climber
Jun 22, 2013 - 05:49pm PT
"It's not "OK". Not for telcos, nor for counter-terrorism."

That's it? Rote recital of an amendment the SC ruled 30 years ago doesn't apply?

And isn't it rather childish for an Internet user to protest against your user data being mined for marketing purposes? How do you expect those sites you visit to make money?

And isn't the Internet banned in N Korea? Why would someone like me, who supports the gov't using it to data mine for terrorism intel, want to go someplace where it's banned altogether?

And why, if NK is totalitarian (which it is) wouldn't they just allow the Internet there, so they could do the data mining you claim is so insidious?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 22, 2013 - 07:41pm PT
There's a BIG facility just completed in Colorado who's sole purpose is to capture EVERY electronic communication in the nation.

All phone calls, Emails, IMs, Videos, Skype, data transfers,

and archive them for at least four years.


Are you really ok with that?

Only an out and out Fascist, Communist or some other form of totalitarian would be.



Dr. F.

Big Wall climber
SoCal
Jun 22, 2013 - 07:50pm PT
TGT
you mean Bush and Cheney
the people that installed the system

I think it's in Utah, not Colorado
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 22, 2013 - 07:53pm PT
This facility was built completely under King Barry's reign.

He didn't stop it did he?
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