risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]


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Mountain climber
Jun 17, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
"This is not the first time that we have had this problem.
This is not the first time that the government has entered into
surveillance on people without probable cause.

Many of us remember that there was FBI surveillance of Martin Luther King, including the wiretapping and bugging of his personal conversations.
I thought, perhaps naively, that we had moved beyond that."

(speech by Congressman Alan Grayson D-Fl)


Jun 17, 2013 - 06:03pm PT
Um is it me or are we not under constant surveliiance anyway.

What are all those cameras on the traffic lights?

No really ask around.

What are they and if you buy into the idea there for traffic accidents your an idiot.

This guy been seen since his interview?

I don't watch the news and or read the paper so clue me in.


Mountain climber
Jun 17, 2013 - 06:32pm PT
Now that you mention it worry about drones+Snowden=silence.

Are the presidents kill drones already circling Snowden in his hotel room?

Believe the Chinese will do some revenge if a building blows up in
Hong Kong to silence the leaker and evidence points to hellfire missile.

The communist news outlets are for days going wall to wall on Snowden story.


Social climber
So Cal
Jun 17, 2013 - 06:54pm PT

Sport climber
Jun 17, 2013 - 11:17pm PT
So how do you get into the business of leaking embarrassing government crimes without getting your
door kicked in at 4am and dragged off to Gitmo?

How to Leak made simple. For the Government employee who wants to keep getting a pay check.



Jun 17, 2013 - 11:25pm PT

Clearly the move to make for discerning and freedom loving wingnuts is Hong Kong

Or for a real jolt of what freedom tastes like, Beijing


Trad climber
Jun 18, 2013 - 09:20am PT
Credit: Snowmassguy

State of Mine
Jun 18, 2013 - 09:37am PT
Obama bristles at suggestion he's shifted on snooping


(CNN) -- Critics who have compared President Barack Obama's stance on government surveillance to that of hawkish former Vice President Dick Cheney are missing his insistence on proper systematic balances, Obama said in an interview that aired Monday.

Defending at length the recently revealed government programs that gather information about phone calls and Internet usage, Obama said his focus has always been on allowing information to be gathered while ensuring necessary oversight.

"Some people say, 'Well, you know, Obama was this raving liberal before. Now he's, you know, Dick Cheney.'" Obama told PBS' Charlie Rose. "Dick Cheney sometimes says, 'Yeah, you know? He took it all lock, stock, and barrel.' My concern has always been not that we shouldn't do intelligence gathering to prevent terrorism, but rather are we setting up a system of checks and balances?"

Cheney defends NSA, calls Obama's credibility 'nonexistent'

Snowden: Hong Kong easiest answer

Edward Snowden: Hide and seek

Is the NSA leaker a spy?

Apple discloses data request numbers
Obama's administration has faced a litany of questions since the disclosure of government programs that allow the National Security Agency to collect millions of records from U.S. telecommunications firms and Internet companies in the name of preventing terrorism. The source of the information, former CIA employee Edward Snowden, said he was moved to leak the top-secret documents because he felt the government was far overreaching its constitutional bounds in collecting the data.

But Obama argued in the interview on Monday that the system in place includes steps to prevent Americans' rights against unlawful search and seizure from being violated.

"What I can say unequivocally is that if you are a U.S. person, the NSA cannot listen to your telephone calls, and the NSA cannot target your e-mails," Obama said.

Snowden claims online Obama expanded 'abusive' security

"On this telephone program, you've got a federal court with independent federal judges overseeing the entire program," the president continued. "And you've got Congress overseeing the program, not just the intelligence committee and not just the judiciary committee, but all of Congress had available to it before the last reauthorization exactly how this program works."

Some members of Congress, including Senate Intelligence Committee members Jay Rockefeller and Susan Collins, have questioned the notion they were given proper briefings on the NSA's program, however, and many lawmakers have said they first learned of the programs when they were revealed in news reports two weeks ago.

CNN poll: Obama numbers plunge into generation gap

**Asked in the interview whether the NSA's process should be more open, Obama said, "It is transparent. That's why we set up the FISA court."

That body, however, operates in secret, and its locations are considered classified. It has approved the vast majority of the requests it has received for warrants, though those orders are also kept secret.**

An administration official said Monday that Obama had asked his intelligence chief James Clapper to determine whether additional information about the data collection programs can be made public, part of what the official described as a "broader effort the president is undertaking to have a dialogue on protecting privacy in the digital age."

The swirling debate is grist for a "national conversation" about privacy and national security, Obama said.

"Not only about these two programs, but also the general problem of data, big data sets, because this is not going to be restricted to government entities," he said.

see the bold stuff....how do you have a "transparent process" when it is classified? thats a new one.

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Jun 18, 2013 - 10:01am PT
Millenials don't like being spied upon by boomers, imagine THAT???

Shocking that the children of Boomers will reject Boomer Panic Programs like the mislabeled Patriot Act. Shocking I tell you. I am shocked that these kids don't submit to The Man.


Jun 18, 2013 - 10:27am PT
CNN is the intelligent agencies MSM news front.

It's infiltrated completely by the intelligence agencies on what to report.

Nobody believes anything CNN says except idiots ......

Jun 18, 2013 - 11:08am PT

"how do you have a "transparent process" when it is classified? thats a new one."

From your vast knowledge of domestic terrorist counter-intel techniques and procedures, gleaned from your years of access to Cabinet-level security briefings, please feel free to suggest an alternative

Trad climber
Jun 18, 2013 - 11:32am PT
At least we have 100% security. Obama likes listening to my sexy time talk with the wife when I am away on business trips and I am OK with that lol

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 18, 2013 - 05:38pm PT

Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Jun 18, 2013 - 07:56pm PT
Edward Snowden is a traitor to the United States and should be treated as such.

Trad climber
Central Valley, CA
Jun 19, 2013 - 12:18pm PT

Gym climber
Jun 19, 2013 - 12:33pm PT
Edward Snowden is a traitor to the United States and should be treated as such.

Curious as to your opinion on Dick Cheney, W, Rumsfeld, and Libby.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jun 19, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
The dude ditched his pole artist girlfriend and went to China with a Rubik's Cube and we're supposed to take him seriously?

The Rubik's Cube is too funny. Reminds me of the DaVinci Code.

Sport climber
Jun 19, 2013 - 12:56pm PT

Given the enormity of what you are facing now in terms of repercussions, can you describe the exact moment when you knew you absolutely were going to do this, no matter the fallout, and what it now feels like to be living in a post-revelation world? Or was it a series of moments that culminated in action? I think it might help other people contemplating becoming whistleblowers if they knew what the ah-ha moment was like. Again, thanks for your courage and heroism.

Snowden's answer:

I imagine everyone's experience is different, but for me, there was no single moment. It was seeing a continuing litany of lies from senior officials to Congress - and therefore the American people - and the realization that that Congress, specifically the Gang of Eight, wholly supported the lies that compelled me to act. Seeing someone in the position of James Clapper - the Director of National Intelligence - baldly lying to the public without repercussion is the evidence of a subverted democracy. The consent of the governed is not consent if it is not informed.

Sport climber
Jun 19, 2013 - 12:57pm PT

1) Why did you choose Hong Kong to go to and then tell them about US hacking on their research facilities and universities?
2) How many sets of the documents you disclosed did you make, and how many different people have them? If anything happens to you, do they still exist?

Snowden's answer:

1) First, the US Government, just as they did with other whistleblowers, immediately and predictably destroyed any possibility of a fair trial at home, openly declaring me guilty of treason and that the disclosure of secret, criminal, and even unconstitutional acts is an unforgivable crime. That's not justice, and it would be foolish to volunteer yourself to it if you can do more good outside of prison than in it.

Second, let's be clear: I did not reveal any US operations against legitimate military targets. I pointed out where the NSA has hacked civilian infrastructure such as universities, hospitals, and private businesses because it is dangerous. These nakedly, aggressively criminal acts are wrong no matter the target. Not only that, when NSA makes a technical mistake during an exploitation operation, critical systems crash. Congress hasn't declared war on the countries - the majority of them are our allies - but without asking for public permission, NSA is running network operations against them that affect millions of innocent people. And for what? So we can have secret access to a computer in a country we're not even fighting? So we can potentially reveal a potential terrorist with the potential to kill fewer Americans than our own Police? No, the public needs to know the kinds of things a government does in its name, or the "consent of the governed" is meaningless.

2) All I can say right now is the US Government is not going to be able to cover this up by jailing or murdering me. Truth is coming, and it cannot be stopped.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Jun 19, 2013 - 12:59pm PT
Funny - i saw an article this morning of a CONVICTED SPY telling of what snowden will now be going through. Interesting comparison..Spot on..If he was w whistle blower, hed be hangin out in Oprahs church for asylum still with a thousand press members present. Naww, he ran to China. meh...
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