risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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JeryRoyo03

Gym climber
CA, NY, USA
Dec 19, 2013 - 12:20am PT
These phone jammers are available at a very reasonable price. You can buy this phone jammer very easily. As this service takes nominal charges on the network, so you would need to spend a little amount to get complete peace of mind when you are not willing to get disturbed.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 19, 2013 - 02:35am PT
Your guarantees are worth the price I pay for the electrons to render them into words on this screen. Time will tell. I suspect you are right, given the past decisions of this court, such as granting corporations personhood.

But perhaps its not the collection of the data that's illegal, but the spying on that data that lives large in the minds of the judges.

So how about banking metadata? Don't they need a court order on a per person basis and then they can go get the records? Why should they get pre-collection of telco records?

Medical records? Same thing? Huh? Well? Hospitals can collect data on me but may not share it without permission. What's different about telco records that makes them so special? That they can precollect them? But only spy on 60 Americans? Bullsh#t. I wasn't born yesterday.

Joe? Anyone? (with a law degree)

DMT
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Dec 22, 2013 - 11:23am PT
Interesting story!

A spy world reshaped by Edward Snowden:

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-nsa-snowden-20131222,0,7166210.story
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 22, 2013 - 11:42am PT
When that committee handed President Obama the Major NSA Slapdown last week, Ed Snowden's actions were at least partially vindicated. It seems Mr Hyatt has check out of the debate, as a result.

DMT
John Hyatt

climber
Dec 22, 2013 - 12:25pm PT
"When that committee handed President Obama the Major NSA Slapdown last week, Ed Snowden's actions were at least partially vindicated."


All the committee recommended was to allow the telcos to continue bulk data collection, and for the FISA court to continue to have unrestricted access to it. Same difference to what's happening now. The NSA will still get what it needs, even if the committee's recommendations are followed.

The SC will be unable to rule that data collection is unconstitutional for the gov't, but constitutional for the telcos. That would then have to apply to bulk data collection across the board - banks, hospitals etc. It'll probably end up ruling on the constitutionality of how the FISA court operates. And that won't really change anything either, as far as data collection is concerned. The SC will refer back to the established precedent of the 3rd party records doctrine.


TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 22, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/us/white-house-tries-to-prevent-judge-from-ruling-on-surveillance-efforts.html
John Hyatt

climber
Dec 22, 2013 - 12:41pm PT
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/22/us/white-house-tries-to-prevent-judge-from-ruling-on-surveillance-efforts.html

"The panel’s experts concluded that “there has been no instance in which N.S.A. could say with confidence that the outcome would have been different” in a terror investigation without the collection of the telephone data. “Moreover now that the existence of the program has been disclosed publicly, we suspect that it is likely to be less useful still.”


Hahahaha, I love the "logic" of that. The NSA can't prove that something that didn't happen would have happened if it hadn't collected the data., therefore the program is unjustified.

And since anyone can now disclose any secret program they don't agree with on the grounds of unwarranted gov't intrusion, we obviously need to shut down the CIA, NSA, all police surveillance of suspected criminal activity...


From one imagined Orwellian extreme to another.


dave729

Trad climber
Western America
Dec 22, 2013 - 03:36pm PT
the secretly turning on cameras deal is still f!!cked.

Most of the camera on a chip modules are made in china. Do you think
they said "No we won't do it! Its immoral!" when the NSA asked them to
design in hardware/firmware to allow snapping peoples pics secretly?
Duh!

http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/fbi-can-secretly-turn-laptops-camera-says-ex-employee/

John Hyatt

climber
Dec 22, 2013 - 04:16pm PT


"the secretly turning on cameras deal is still f!!cked."


Can the FBI secretly remove the tape you cover the lens with?

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Dec 22, 2013 - 04:22pm PT



Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 22, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
We shall see Mr Hyatt. The impact of Snowden on the US spy apparatus will reverberate in spy land for decades. Its a machine that eats it's own.

DMT
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Dec 22, 2013 - 05:34pm PT
Am sure Boeing is grateful to the NSA for screwing up the $4 billion contract they expected to get from Brazil :)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/latin-american-business/how-us-spying-cost-boeing-multibillion-dollar-brazil-jet-contract/article16073110/
command error

Trad climber
Colorado
Dec 23, 2013 - 10:28am PT
Ever wonder whats up with all those telemarketer calls
that never leave a message?

Its the FBI tricking us to pose for pictures.
I mean your cell rings and you naturally look
at the display to see who's calling and
then they secretly and silently snap your picture.

Black electrical tape over all lens.


John Hyatt

climber
Dec 23, 2013 - 10:47am PT


"Am sure Boeing is grateful to the NSA for screwing up the $4 billion contract they expected to get from Brazil :)"


Yup, I'm sure Boeing is sending Snowden a nice Christmas card.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 23, 2013 - 03:40pm PT
Hey Joe I mean John, your fellow chicken little apologists are jumping ship like freedom loving rats.

Republican Representative Jim Sensenbrenner has introduced the USA Freedom Act, which would tighten restrictions on NSA metadata collection. The bill represents a major political reversal for the Wisconsin conservative. After the 9/11 attacks, Sensenbrenner played a key role in the passage of the PATRIOT Act, the law that served as the genesis of expanded counterterrorism powers for law enforcement and intelligence agencies.

"...Somewhere along the way, the balance between security and privacy was lost," Sensenbrenner said in a recent press release. "It's now time for the judiciary committees to again come together in a bipartisan fashion to ensure the law is properly interpreted, past abuses are not repeated and American liberties are protected."

Face it dude, Snowden has crippled the NSA and the fallout will require them to stop the unwarranted spying on Americans. You can babble all you want about telcos... the spying is going to stop.

Admit it dude, you're wrong and you've been wrong from the start on this one.

DMT
Jim Harper

Social climber
Dec 23, 2013 - 04:49pm PT
Sounds to me like Mr Hyatt has some pretty valid points. I agree that the Supreme Court is unlikely to rule that bulk data collection is unconstitutional, simply because that would have to apply across a pretty broad spectrum of not just government activity (like the IRS), but corporate as well. Banks, health care organizations, credit rating systems etc all do the type of data collection and cross-referencing that the NSA is involved in.

Activity on public phone networks is no more private than the traffic cam footage of someone driving. Activity on public streets, and on public telecom networks, isn't private. Now, once they start literally tapping into your conversations, they need a warrant. But if merely keeping track of phone records is unconstitutional, then the "telcos", as he refers to them, are in big trouble.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
U.N. Ambassador, Crackistan
Dec 23, 2013 - 04:51pm PT
Ill wait for the constitutional authorities to issue their ruling. Joe bob doesn't impress. But if congress prohibits the NSA from collecting end of story.

DMT
Jim Harper

Social climber
Dec 23, 2013 - 04:57pm PT
Agreed. And will you admit to being wrong about it when they rule in favor of the NSA? With the SC Chief Justice being the one who appoints the FISA court members in the first place? You really think he'd be doing that if he thought it was unconstitutional?

Hell, I'd bet they might even refuse to take the case on those grounds.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Dec 23, 2013 - 10:45pm PT
Edward Snowden, after months of NSA revelations, says his mission’s accomplished

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/edward-snowden-after-months-of-nsa-revelations-says-his-missions-accomplished/2013/12/23/49fc36de-6c1c-11e3-a523-fe73f0ff6b8d_story.html

“The oath of allegiance is not an oath of secrecy,” (Snowden) said. “That is an oath to the Constitution. That is the oath that I kept that Keith Alexander and James Clapper did not.”

People who accuse him of disloyalty, he said, mistake his purpose.

“I am not trying to bring down the NSA, I am working to improve the NSA,” he said. “I am still working for the NSA right now. They are the only ones who don’t realize it.”
rSin

Trad climber
calif
Dec 27, 2013 - 06:00pm PT
no information was FREELY given out

the customers are not given the choice. the contract which is imposed is unconscionable
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