risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Aug 21, 2013 - 04:06pm PT
NSA fishing thru 75% of all US internet traffic.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324108204579022874091732470.html
Filtering is just a euphemism for fishing or snooping.
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Aug 21, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
ACLU comments

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-speech-national-security/beyond-bradley-manning-government-has-made-its-point-updated
jghedge

climber
Aug 21, 2013 - 06:04pm PT
""There is no logical consistency to Hedge's posts."


Or rather, none that you care to admit to. All I'm really doing is quoting MSM sources and liberal blogs.

When you guys start to focus your outrage where it belongs (the telco's and ISP's) you might have some credibility. Being outraged that the gov't might know a fraction about you that AT&T, Verizon, Google, Facebook, your bank, et al already knows is - I'm sorry - comical.

As Colbert so astutely pointed out the other night.
WBraun

climber
Aug 21, 2013 - 06:57pm PT
All I'm really doing is quoting MSM sources and liberal blogs.


Why do you do that all the time?

That's not news.

It's garbage ......
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Aug 22, 2013 - 09:51am PT
If you want to correspond with him, address his mail to "Chelsea" Manning.

http://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/article/Manning-wants-to-live-as-a-woman-named-Chelsea-4751666.php

Once again, one of the "commenters" at the bottom of the news page nails it:

"Just as long as Chelsea understands that she'll be doing Bradley's time"

Dude has one messed-up life. Good thing he's now put away, so he can't mess up anyone else's.

His pal "Julie" is next.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 22, 2013 - 10:04am PT
When you guys start to focus your outrage where it belongs (the telco's and ISP's) you might have some credibility. Being outraged that the gov't might know a fraction about you that AT&T, Verizon, Google, Facebook, your bank, et al already knows is - I'm sorry - comical.

Well said, Hedge. The government doesn't care if you're cheating on yer
girlfriend, really. Maybe you would like to flatter yourself that you're
important enough to merit surveillance but you're not. They have more
important things to do. As much as I like to lambast the guvmint when it
comes to national security, something about which I actually know something
and some people, these are, for the vast majority, very good and intelligent
people doing important work of which few of us should have any knowledge.
You have no idea of the number of attacks that have been thwarted, nor should
you. Democracy doesn't mean every hand-wringing half-wit needs to know about this.
And democracy certainly doesn't mean that some snot-nosed E-3 should think
he should be the arbiter of what should or shouldn't be classified.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:12am PT
manning may be messed up, really bad. but something is terribly wrong with this country.

one of the first things manning leaked was this:

Manning released this graphic video of a U.S. Apache helicopter attack on a group of people gathered in Baghdad. Two were employees of the Reuters news agency. A member of the helicopter crew refers to the "dead bastards" he killed, and the crew lights up a passing van that stopped to help victims of the first round of gunfire.

Reuters unsuccessfully requested a copy of the video under the Freedom of Information Act, but only Manning revealed it to the world. An Army investigation into the attack, released only after Manning's leak was published, concluded that the helicopter crew had followed the rules of engagement.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/21/bradley-manning-leaks_n_3788126.html

apparently leaking the dirty truth of war is worse than killing some innocents and joking about it.

manning made the mistake of leaking more than that. he should have leaked just that and made a higher road stand. if they still would have convicted him then this is clearly not the america i thought it was.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:15am PT
2. The Reykjavik-13 cable
Far less known than the Apache video was this classified 2010 cable from the U.S. Embassy in Reykjavik released on Feb. 18, 2010. The first of Manning's leaks to be published, it caused an immediate sensation in Iceland for its frank discussion of U.S. indifference toward problems in the small island nation's banking sector.

The cable's release energized the activists in Iceland who edited "Collateral Murder."

3. The Iraq War Logs
As part of his work as an Army intelligence analyst, Manning had access to a wealth of sensitive Army documents about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Called SIGACTS (significant activities), in military parlance, they detailed nighttime raids and improvised explosives attacks with intimate on-the-ground reports from U.S. troops.

Manning gave WikiLeaks nearly 400,000 SIGACTS from Iraq. They were published in October 2010. The Pentagon had always maintained that it did not keep track of civilian casualties in Iraq, but the independent Iraq Body Count website used the SIGACTS to confirm and update its count of deaths in the conflict.

As of this month, the Iraq Body Count's Josh Dougherty related, the organization had added 4,000 deaths to its database as a result of Manning's leaks and was likely to add another 10,000.

"These and thousands of others like them are known to the world today only because Bradley Manning could no longer in good conscience collude with an official policy of the Bush and Obama administrations to abuse secrecy and 'national security' to erase them from history," Dougherty wrote on the group's website. "If Manning deserves any punishment at all for this, certainly his three years already served, and the disgraceful abuse he was made to suffer during it, is more than enough."

4. The Afghanistan War Logs
On July 25, 2010, just a month after Manning was arrested, WikiLeaks published 75,000 SIGACTS from the Afghanistan battlefield. The New York Times, which participated in their publication, said they offered "an unvarnished, ground-level picture of the war in Afghanistan that is in many respects more grim than the official portrayal."

5. Detention, abuse and torture
Manning's leaks included more than 700 Guantanamo detainee files, many revealing that the U.S. had little reason to continue holding its prisoners. The 250,000 State Department cables he leaked detailed U.S. diplomatic pressure on foreign countries to ignore or excuse extraordinary renditions carried out by the CIA in apparent violation of international law. They also showed that the U.S. routinely failed to investigate reports of prisoner abuse and summary execution by the Iraqi military.

"It brought this issue back into public consciousness again, which is a great thing," Shane Kadidal, a lawyer at the Center for Constitutional Rights who represents Guantanamo detainees, told HuffPost in June.

"And then with everything that Manning released, to some extent the volume of the material is part of the story," Kadidal said. "It's one thing to tell a few anecdotes based on a few items being leaked, but to be able to say across the board that most of the men who are there shouldn't be there, were people that could be safely released that is pretty staggering."

6. U.S. complicity with repressive Arab regimes
It was no surprise to many living in the Arab world that the United States routinely collaborated with Arab dictators behind closed doors while proclaiming its commitment to democracy in public. Manning's leaks of sensitive State Department cables, however, laid bare the American hypocrisy in the Middle East. By some accounts, they served as a catalyst for the regime changes around the region that would come to be known as the Arab Spring.

In particular, the cables highlighted corruption within the regime of former Tunisian president Zine El Abidine Ben Ali. The first batch of cables about Tunisia was released in November 2010, two months before Ben Ali fled the country.

"Whether it's cash, services, land, property, or yes, even your yacht, President Ben Ali's family is rumored to covet it and reportedly gets what it wants," the U.S. embassy reported in a June 2008 cable classified secret. "With Tunisians facing rising inflation and high unemployment, the conspicuous displays of wealth and persistent rumors of corruption have added fuel to the fire."

you guys figure it out. whats worse? an army private who leaks this stuff? or the country that is complicit with torture at guantanamo? complicit with arab regimes who treat their citizens like dirt?

Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:18am PT
Hedge would like me to believe there is a fundamental separation between Corp. America and USA Inc.

Laughable.

DMT
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:20am PT
Poor kid. Tank fodder but he did violate his oath...

DMT
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:24am PT
Poor kid. Tank fodder but he did violate his oath...

i agree with you. i can't imagine how hard it would be though to keep an oath when you knew that innocents were killed and covered up. seems like the oath should take a back seat to the greater truth at times.

we the people are fed propoganda as bad as the old USSR. only most russians were smart enought to know the difference and many americans are not.
k-man

Gym climber
SCruz
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:25am PT
Well said, Hedge. The government doesn't care if you're cheating on yer girlfriend, really.

Nothing like downplaying the truth.

What if the gov't cared that you were part of an organization that protests the illegal activities of a large corporation? And then they harassed you when you organized activities to protest the corporation?

Don't make me look up the cases where this type of gov't intrusion has been documented.
jghedge

climber
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:28am PT
"Hedge would like me to believe there is a fundamental separation between Corp. America and USA Inc.

Laughable."


Actually I'm pointing out that there isn't, which is why complaining about the gov't having access to data the corporations already have is so ridiculous.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:30am PT
k-man, I would like you to look that up because I am quite sure you will
not find that the NSA or the CIA has stooped to any of that behavior. The
FBI likely did under Hoover but I doubt much of that has occurred since.
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:39am PT
yeah reilly,

unless your muslim....or protesting the war....or part of an occupy movement....or....

jghedge

climber
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:44am PT


"unless your muslim....or protesting the war....or part of an occupy movement....or...."


So you have proof of these people being harassed based on NSA surveillance?
Hawkeye

climber
State of Mine
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:48am PT
hedge, the only proof i have is that you are a deluded idiot. all one has to do is read this thread to reach their own conclusions.
jghedge

climber
Aug 22, 2013 - 11:56am PT


"hedge, the only proof i have is that you are a deluded idiot."


Hahahaha, keep making unfounded accusations you can't back up, and then calling others deluded idiots. All you're doing is making my point for me.
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Aug 22, 2013 - 12:04pm PT
Actually I'm pointing out that there isn't, which is why complaining about the gov't having access to data the corporations already have is so ridiculous.

Why is pointing out rampant spying on an ignorant populous ridiculous?

Why is complaining that the US government recognizes a corporation as a person, ridiculous?

Why is lamenting the rather complete destruction of privacy ... ridiculous?

Why is acknowledgment of the complicity of corporations and government to spy in the US civilian population ridiculous?

I read what you're typing and I simply don't understand why you think this distinction you make is important at all? Can you tune out unplug and disappear from this complicity? Perhaps, but you won't be posting here anymore.

I do not think it is unreasonable (ie ridiculous) to ask, no, DEMAND, that these entities NOT spy on the US population in secret. If I choose to opt in to google and submit my data to their machine, that is not leave for the government to plunder my data.

I don't understand your willing submission to this situation. I do not. Perhaps you could explain YOUR perspective instead of mocking everyone else's?

Or not.

Cheers

DMT
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Aug 22, 2013 - 12:09pm PT
Manning released this graphic video of a U.S. Apache helicopter attack on a group of people gathered in Baghdad. Two were employees of the Reuters news agency.

I guess you never watched the whole unedited video.

A group of jihadis was actively engaging a dismounted Army platoon with RPGs and heavy machine guns. The reporters were taking photos almost over their shoulders.

The video was heavily edited for propaganda purposes and that's all most people have seen.


There's a difference between Manning and the NSA leaks. Manning dumped information wholesale that included things like names of translators, informants and allies, methods of detecting and disarming IEDs and had no regard for how many people it would get killed.

Hopefully Bubba will help him with his gender identity issues.


Snowden has so far been fairly circumspect in the information he's released.






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