risking his life to tell you about NSA surveillance [ot]

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jghedge

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 08:22am PT


http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/07/25/how_nancy_pelosi_saved_the_nsa_surveillance_program

"An aide later emphasized that Pelosi did note declare an official leadership position against the amendment, meaning there was no whip or count established to see how Democrats would vote."


Meaning if she really wanted to make sure it didn't pass, she would have counted dem votes and applied pressure where needed, so I'm not getting where this article is coming from - she certainly didn't do as much as she could have.

Also the article's contention that "the razor-thin 205-217 vote, which would have severely limited the NSA's ability to collect data on Americans' telephone records if passed" isn't true - it'd still have to survive a Senate vote and a Presidential veto. And the House knew this, yet chose not to even make a statement by passing a bill they knew in advance wouldn't survive.

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 26, 2013 - 08:39am PT
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57595529-38/feds-tell-web-firms-to-turn-over-user-account-passwords/
jghedge

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 08:52am PT


http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57595529-38/feds-tell-web-firms-to-turn-over-user-account-passwords/

Hahahaha, the usual TGT uninformed gibberish. The very first reader comment:

"Next time you write an article about something like this, contact a CS person first.... Even if the government gets the Hashing function they won't be able to recreate the password, that's the main point of hashing. And no company will store their passwords in any manor that they'd be able to be regenerated into their original form, that's just stupid and useless. In order to get access to your account they'd have to somehow by-pass the re-hashing function that occurs every time you enter your password, which I doubt anyone would give them access too. It's just about as bad as a back door to the company, and no judge will approve that. Do your research next time. "
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:20am PT
I would have preferred to see the Amash amendment passed, but what hasn't been covered at all is that this amendment DID pass by a 409-12 vote.

None of funds made available by this Act may be used by the National Security Agency to–

(1) conduct an acquisition pursuant to section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 for the purpose of targeting a United States person; or

(2) acquire, monitor, or store the contents (as such term is defined in section 2510(8) of title 18, United States Code) of any electronic communication of a United States person from a provider of electronic communication services to the public pursuant to section 501 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978.
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:43am PT
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-57595529-38/feds-tell-web-firms-to-turn-over-user-account-passwords/

Hahahaha, the usual TGT uninformed gibberish. The very first reader comment:

"Next time you write an article about something like this, contact a CS... approve that. Do your research next time. "

The article seems conflicted with itself because it describes the feds asking for passwords, algorithms, and encryption keys. It then talks about hash values and how the original password is not available.

With a hash value, it is possible to get a list of almost all passwords that could generate the hash value. Then a brute force attack (trying every possible password) can be done using just the set of passwords that generate the given hash value. It makes a brute force type of attack very easy. If the feds have an encrypted hard drive or email, as well as the hash value and algorithm that generated it, they can get to the data in a very short time. Online accounts are different because there is a lot of time spend in transferring the data over the internet. Servers often add a big delay for any user who tried to log in with a bad password more than a few times. But the feds can go to the servers directly to get your data.

Regardless, it is disturbing that the government is asking for this type of thing without warrants. Isn't that the issue that we are discussing; the problem of the feds getting information about people who are not the target of any investigation and/or without a warrant?

Dave

P.S. Don't bother with capital letters and punctuation. Create passwords that are extremely long instead. Using "horsecowchickensheepmonkeypassword" for a password is probably way better than using "%gGth!!0a" for a password. Sometimes size does matter.
jghedge

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:55am PT
"I would have preferred to see the Amash amendment passed, but what hasn't been covered at all is that this amendment DID pass by a 409-12 vote."


Yes - and that amendment was in fact sponsored by NSA data mining supporters

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130723/01361323896/dueling-house-amendments-over-cutting-nsa-surveillance-funding-one-is-red-herring-to-trick-congress.shtml

"...much of the concern with the vast collection of data is about Section 215 under the Patriot Act. The separate concerns, about the PRISM program, fall under Section 702 of FISA. It looks like the Nugent amendment may be pulling funding from that, but it's not. It just says that it wouldn't allow funds to be used for Section 702 if it's "targeting a US person." But Section 702 already forbids the targeting of US persons and while there are some questions as to how well the NSA follows this limitation, so far there's been no real evidence that 702 is used to target US persons. So, this is just restating the status quo, and doing absolutely nothing to fix the gross reinterpretation of Section 215."


An obvious red herring, if you actually take the time to be informed, since the amendment includes nothing about Section 215. It's irrelevant, in that it merely restates an existing statute.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:59am PT
How's airport life going for old Paul Revere anyway?
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jul 26, 2013 - 10:01am PT
good short video on smoke screen

jghedge

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 10:05am PT
^^^ First few words of above video

"...these incredibly corrupt politicians like Senators Schumer and Feinstein..."

Hahaha, bye. Makes the overreach on Benghazi and the IRS seem reasonable by comparison.

Nothing will ever get accomplished with that kind of ludicrous hyperbole. Liberals are supposed to be smarter than this.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:23am PT
Now they want to keep the policy process secret!

http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/25/pf/taxes/tax-reform/index.html?iid=Lead

I guess that's so they can be

"for it before they were against it"
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:29am PT
acquire, monitor, or store the contents (as such term is defined in section 2510(8) of title 18, United States Code) of any electronic communication of a United States person

TGT, there must be some trick to this. It's hard to believe its true and not a single news reporter is interested. As I understand it, the way NSA works is to collect everything they can, 100%. The restrictions come into play when they try to access the information. I'm not sure its technically possible to sort out the info while they collect it. Although, maybe it's just not been a priority to devise a system that does that.

By the way, I've been a human rights/civil rights activist for a long time, pretty well networked with others, and am amazed at what I find on a rock climbing bulletin board that no one else seeems to know about. I've taken quite a few things from this thread and distributed them by facebook. I actually come to the supertopo website to read rock climbing stories.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:38am PT

This article claims it is a trick. It's way over my head, don't ask me. It's called the Nugent Amendment. It's not actually named after Ted.
jghedge

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:44am PT
^^^ Look 6 posts up
abrams

Sport climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:45am PT
Someone had a good (or maybe bad) suggestion to counter them.

Bury the aholes in data with scripts running on your computer and smart phone that make constant random web searches and phone calls 24/7/365.

Let them sort that and try to profile real activity.



jghedge

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 11:52am PT
http://www.nationaljournal.com/magazine/how-america-s-top-tech-companies-created-the-surveillance-state-20130725


This article asks the same question I keep asking on this thread (and never get an answer to):

Why trust the telco's with all that data, but not the gov't?
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 26, 2013 - 05:37pm PT
Here's why.

Some theorists such as John Robb and Daniel Suarez speculate that in the near future every person in the world will be assigned a number. It will be like a credit score that the US government keeps track of, but in this case it will be a terror score. Hopefully you will at least start with a zero score in this new paradigm…

As a person’s electronic signature begins to cross certain trip wires, their terror score will increase. Hanging out on Jihad websites: 5 points. E-mailing a radical sheik in Yemen: 10 points. Buying large quantities of chemical fertilizer at home depot: 15 points. Once your terror score reaches a certain threshold, you will then be targeted for assassination. This process will be completely automated.

It gets better though because what we see today in Pakistan with the CIA’s drone program is just the tip of the iceberg. In the future, the NSA will be even more intrusive and pervasive in its surveillance. Unblinking Intelligence, Surveillance, Recon (ISR) platforms such as blimps will hover above target areas for long stretches of time. Eventually, some long duration platform may be running ISR over nearly the entire world. As individuals meet the threshold, a bomb gets dropped on them. One day the actually killing will shift from primitive Predator type drones to a orbital weapons platform, probably a satellite network equipped with high powered lasers.

This is how you control a world wide insurgency, and this is how the elites of the world maintain the privileges and positions to which they are accustomed.


http://sofrep.com/23723/the-future-of-counter-terrorism-threshold-strikes/

Then the score could also be extended to political obeisance.

The perfection of of ward machine politics.


jghedge

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 05:58pm PT

"Then the score could also be extended to political obeisance. "


Or, the opposite - to those who justify gun arsenal ownership as defense against gov't.

I can hear the wheels turning in your head now

"Must...buy...more...guns...more ammo..."
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 26, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
If only there was some way we could shape the laws to allow executing conservatives...
\

"Progressive"= closeted fascist
jghedge

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 06:52pm PT


"If only there was some way we could shape the laws to allow executing conservatives..."


You mean, politically? They're exterminating themselves quite effectively.


WBraun

climber
Jul 26, 2013 - 09:59pm PT
None are so hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free.

The truth has been kept from the depth of their minds by masters who rule them with lies.

They feed them on falsehoods till wrong looks like right in their eyes.

-Johann von Goethe
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