Pull ups against Monsanto

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Messages 1 - 90 of total 90 in this topic
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Original Post - May 25, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
hi guys, some pull ups done because I couldnt get to a an anti Monsanto march, this was removed from Reddit, so maybe you don't want to look at either. You lot are way more intelligent...



http://steviehaston.blogspot.fr/2013/05/pull-ups-against-monsanto-by-stevie.html
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 25, 2013 - 06:07pm PT
^^^^try to focus nwo. I'm against Monsanto as well^^^^

This link works:

Pull-ups against Monsanto


Be thankful you are in a country that requires gmo labeling.
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2013 - 06:08pm PT
Sorry I made a bit of a blunder due to doing a few too many pull ups. The post was moved to Controversial section, Its not controversial, what Monsanto is doing is controversial. Signed Stevie etc
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 25, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
I'll put it on my teeth, but don't want it in my water.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 25, 2013 - 06:44pm PT
I took a dump against Monsanto this morning. Besides, Werner told me pullups are stupid.
Gene

climber
May 25, 2013 - 07:07pm PT
I must be getting old. Years ago we had sit ins to protest. Now we are asked to do pull ups?
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 25, 2013 - 07:15pm PT
In the history of sit-ins, pull-ups and marches, when has one ever solved a problem. When has bringing attention to it ever solved a problem?



I hear armchair theorists continually whine about FL or mercury fillings through decayed teeth, yet not one of them have gotten a PhD or doctorate in the subject, (which would make you realize that white fillings are much worse for you than silver) and provided the world with a better option than we have at the present time. Glass Ionomer? Resin? Dentin regeneration? So sick of whining dummies who ignore the fact that there is decay and just complain about solutions that someone else has come up with while not even providing other options or being educated enough to read the research let alone do their own research and development on new solutions. (since we all seem to be ranting about different topics here)




I do agree, however, that I'll continue to not eat Monsanto products or eat animals.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
May 25, 2013 - 07:19pm PT
People hear about it and educate themselves.

The fact we are even talking about it is making a difference.

McCfly

climber
May 25, 2013 - 07:37pm PT
Thanks for posting this.

Even my friends and family whom have lost loved ones to cancer as of late think i am a bit nuts because i eat all organic no GMO and and have very strict dietary habits. So soon as i start talking about how strongly i feel about our environment killing us i am wacko!! Sh#t i do not have to say anything you can just tell by the way they look at your food they think you are nuts.

People need to understand how important this topic is, it is real!!!
Plumbbob

Mountain climber
Juneau, AK
May 25, 2013 - 08:10pm PT
gave some $ to move on to fight the recent Monsanto bs. f... Monsanto.
bp
Gene

climber
May 25, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
Very curious SCOTUS decision re: Monsanto recently. IP property rights now travel through generations of seeds?

g
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
May 25, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
Monsanto is stupid....
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
May 25, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
Monsanto is evil.
LilaBiene

Trad climber
May 25, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
NK, right, Gene? (Bad, bad pun. Profuse apologies.) ;D

Mcfly, I totally hear what you're saying about what people think about "intentional" grazing. I've been trying to figure out why grains do such a horrible number on my body (I've posted enough about this already, I suspect), and along the way, my body decided it doesn't like soy anymore, either. I was a vegetarian for 22 years or so, and very accustomed to eating soy of all varieties, so it was one thing trying to first eliminate wheat, etc. -- just try to completely eliminate soy! I've found ONE company that makes chocolate bars that don't contain soy lecithin. ONE!!!

But I digress...I don't eat out at restaurants anymore not by choice, but because I CAN'T. I'm still trying to get rid of a cluster of muscle spasms that developed after getting "glutened" at Legal Seafoods back in February. I guess what I'm saying is I agree that things have gone awry in the food supply -- the proof is in the muscle spasms all over my body. The challenge is convincing anybody (including the medical profession) that the quality of food directly impacts overall health and well-being.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 25, 2013 - 09:22pm PT
So sick of whining dummies who ignore the fact that there is decay and just complain about solutions that someone else has come up with while not even providing other options or being educated enough to read the research let alone do their own research and development on new solutions.

#educated people problems
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 25, 2013 - 09:40pm PT
#educated people problems


No, that ends up as everyone's problem.

Sitting and complaining while doing nothing about it is just plain hypocritical.
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2013 - 01:45am PT
Thanks a lot guys, your responses made me feel that the climbing community still has some sense on its side compared to the general public. My 'little pointless protest' , yesterday reached over 3500 people, and as some one said above this at least means people talk about it bait.
A few people didn't realize that Roundup was even dangerous, and I certainly didn't know that it was in 41% of the ground water in Catalonia!
There were little protests in many countries around the wold but its to America that people look for a solution, as its the home of Monsanto and it is the American government that is pushing pro Monsanto policy, yours Stevie
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2013 - 02:45am PT
Thanks Jim for that. Round up has certainly killed three of my cats.

I highly recommend this film to anybody made by a top documentary maker.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87qrTXZaXkk

It highlights the dangers of Monsanto, and its powerful connection to American Government, and the FDA in particular.

Yours Stevie
BruceAnderson

Social climber
Los Angeles currently St. Antonin, France
May 26, 2013 - 03:08am PT
I read somewhere recently about a large study of Roundup in humans and of the very large group they found traces in 100% of those tested.

couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 26, 2013 - 10:50am PT
If people realized how much roundup is dumped onto fields and used every year to grow their food they'd all be taking a dump against Monsanto McHale. For myself, I realize that their are huge benefits in companies like them increasing food productivity, but there are huge costs in several areas. Corruption of politicians being another one you might not think of right off.

Regarding the recent court win for Monsanto, it would be interesting to see a farmer sue them for contaminating their corn crop when the neighbors patented Monsanto GMO seed migrates over.
hossjulia

climber
May 26, 2013 - 11:02am PT
One of the biggest mistakes of my life, that I still grieve over, is accidentally killing a large, beautiful weeping willow with round up. I was spraying thistles around the base of the tree, it got into the roots and never came back the next year, died over the winter. Had to have the tree cut down when we sold the house. I'm still sick over it and can not even think of it with out crying.

That is when I lost all trust of chemical fixes, messing with Mother Nature AND corporations. Lost what little trust I had in society and our government. Lost my innocence and youth right then too.

It's been a downhill struggle with depression ever since.

All linked to round up and that tree.


couchmaster, that was tried in Canada with Canola. I believe Monsanto won.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
May 26, 2013 - 11:26am PT
Sitting and complaining while doing nothing about it is just plain hypocritical.

keep tellin' yourself that, white man...
Captain...or Skully

climber
May 26, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
Monsanto will only react to direct action.
set their sh#t ablaze. They're evil. destroying evil is good by default.
Studly

Trad climber
WA
May 26, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
Monsanto has a ton of land in Hawaii and are raising GMO crops there and Round up is being sprayed all over the islands. Watch the reefs and ocean creatures die in real time, won't take long.
It appears that Monsanto is a arm of the US government now, so this is our own government doing this to us, We the People, and the land and our food. Why?
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Reply - May 26, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
hey guys, I realize I am speaking to the converted, but 9O % and over of all soya beans are monsanto, so beef are fed this, and expensive fish.
And to the guy who was talking about Hawaii, I was wondering about the runoff to the sea, I spend a lot of time swimming off a little island which uses a huge amount of Roundup, and there seems to be hardly any life, the sea urchins seem completely gone and no shells or limpets, does anybody know any more?
`
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 26, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
In the history of sit-ins, pull-ups and marches, when has one ever solved a problem. When has bringing attention to it ever solved a problem?

I hear armchair theorists continually whine about FL or mercury fillings through decayed teeth, yet not one of them have gotten a PhD or doctorate in the subject

We would have been in Vietnam a LOT longer if it weren't for public protest

Monsanto is full of PHD as#@&%es, engineering GMOs with unknown consequences that they aren't even testing for safety and those smarty pants are telling us it's safe, Nothing to be concerned about.

So your arrogance rubs me the wrong way. Mercury is a highly poisonous heavy metal that doesn't come out of your system easily. I need more than your word to tell me that "there's nothing to worry about" in putting such an element in your mouth.

Plenty of PhD genius types in the world who have brought us all kinds of poisons and weapons of death and why are so few working some something healthy and sustainable? Too many whores without the wisdom to match their education.

FL is another hot subject, banned for adding in the water supply in more countries in the world than use it, and PhD scientists have shown that Caries has dropped worldwide in both countries that add flouride and those that don't add it. Drinking poison (even if it only affects a few people like thyroid auto-immune types where this halogen mimics Iodine) because it might rub off on your teeth while you are drinking it is the kind of foolishness that makes us not trust science nor Monsanto.

Peace

Karl
Studly

Trad climber
WA
May 26, 2013 - 01:42pm PT
Its also a PROVEN FACT, shown in many studies done outside our country, that flouride LOWERS THE IQ OF CHILDREN SIGNIFICANTLY. Hitler knew what he was doing, but our government does not?

The Use Of Flouridation For Mass Mind Control
11-5-7

The following letter was received by the Lee Foundation for Nutritional Research, Milwaukee Wisconsin, on 2 October 1954, from Mr. Charles Perkins, a chemist:

"I have your letter of September 29 asking for further documentation regarding a statement made in my book, The Truth About Water Fluoridation, to the effect that the idea of water fluoridation was brought to England from Russia by the Russian Communist Kreminoff. "In the 1930`s, Hitler and the German Nazi`s envisioned a world to be dominated and controlled by a Nazi philosophy of pan-Germanism. The German chemists worked out a very ingenious and far-reaching plan of mass-control which was submitted to and adopted by the German General Staff. This plan was to control the population in any given area through mass medication of drinking water supplies. By this method they could control the population in whole areas, reduce population by water medication that would produce sterility in women, and so on. In this scheme of mass-control, sodium fluoride occupied a prominent place. ...

"Repeated doses of infinitesimal amounts of fluoride will in time reduce an individual`s power to resist domination, by slowly poisoning and narcotizing a certain area of the brain, thus making him submissive to the will of those who wish to govern him. [A convenient light lobotomy]

"The real reason behind water fluoridation is not to benefit children`s teeth. If this were the real reason there are many ways in which it could be done that are much easier, cheaper, and far more effective. The real purpose behind water fluoridation is to reduce the resistance of the masses to domination and control and loss of liberty.

"When the Nazis under Hitler decided to go into Poland, both the German General Staff and the Russian General Staff exchanged scientific and military ideas, plans, and personnel, and the scheme of mass control through water medication was seized upon by the Russian Communists because it fitted ideally into their plan to communize the world. ...

"I was told of this entire scheme by a German chemist who was an official of the great IG Farben chemical industries and was also prominent in the Nazi movement at the time. I say this with all the earnestness and sincerity of a scientist who has spent nearly 20 years` research into the chemistry, biochemistry, physiology and pathology of fluorine--any person who drinks artificially fluorinated water for a period of one year or more will never again be the same person mentally or physically." CHARLES E. PERKINS, Chemist, 2 October 1954.

__


Quoting Einstein`s nephew, Dr. E.H. Bronner (a chemist who had also been a prisoner of war during WWII) in a letter printed in The Catholic Mirror, Springfield, MA, January 1952:

"It appears that the citizens of Massachusetts are among the 'next' on the agenda of the water poisoners.

"There is a sinister network of subversive agents, Godless 'intellectual' parasites, working in our country today whose ramifications grow more extensive, more successful and more alarming each new year and whose true objective is to demoralize, paralyze and destroy our great Republic--from within if they can, according to their plan--for their own possession.

"The tragic success they have already attained in their long siege to destroy the moral fiber of American life is now one of their most potent footholds towards their own ultimate victory over us.

"Fluoridation of our community water systems can well become their most subtle weapon for our sure physical and mental deterioration. ..

"As a research chemist of established standing, I built within the past 22 years, 3 American chemical plants and licensed 6 of my 53 patents. Based on my years of practical experience in the health-food and chemical field, let me warn: fluoridation of drinking water is criminal insanity, sure national suicide. Don`t do it.

"Even in small quantities, sodium fluoride is a deadly poison to which no effective antidote has been found. Every exterminator knows that it is the most efficient rat-killer. ... Sodium fluoride is entirely different from organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate needed by our bodies and provided by nature, in God`s great providence and love, to build and strengthen our bones and our teeth. This organic calcium-fluoro-phosphate, derived from proper foods, is an edible organic salt, insoluble in water and assimilable by the human body, whereas the non-organic sodium fluoride used in fluoridating water is instant poison to the body and fully water soluble.

The body refuses to assimilate it. "Careful, bonafide laboratory experimentation by conscientious, patriotic research chemists, and actual medical experience, have both revealed that instead of preserving or promoting `dental health,` fluoridated drinking water destroys teeth, before adulthood and after, by the destructive mottling and other pathological conditions it actually causes in them, and also creates many other very grave pathological conditions in the internal organisms of bodies consuming it. How can it be called a "health" plan? What`s behind it?

"That any so-called "doctors" would persuade a civilized nation to add voluntarily a deadly poison to its drinking water systems is unbelievable. It is the height of criminal insanity. "No wonder Hitler and Stalin fully believed and agreed from 1939 to 1941 that, quoting from both Lenin`s Last Will and Hitler`s Mein Kampf:

"America we shall demoralize, divide, and destroy from within." ...

"Are our Civil Defense organizations and agencies awake to the perils of water poisoning by fluoridation? Its use has been recorded in other countries. Sodium fluoride water solutions are the cheapest and most effective rat killers known to chemists: colorless, odorless, tasteless; no antidote, no remedy, no hope: Instant and complete extermination of rats. ...

"Fluoridation of water systems can be slow national suicide, or quick national liquidation. It is criminal insanity--treason!"

Dr. E.H. Bronner, Mfg. Research Chemist, Los Angeles.

http://www.sonic.net/kryptox/history/perkins2.htm


Could it be that the VP of Monsanto being made head of the FDA and mass flouoridation and GMO products allowed by Congress to be hidden in our foods equates to what is being said in the above? 20 years ago I would have laughed at the concept. Now it appears to be without question, sad times for the Amerioan people.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 26, 2013 - 02:59pm PT
You still haven't come up with another options for fillings besides silver or their worse cousin, white fillings. I'll respect everything you and Alex Jones have to say if you can do that one thing. My Dr. or PhD I specified what it was for, not just to work for corps or gov't. It was to produce something that helps people. Criticizing what someone invented to help people without coming up with your own, better, solution is childish.



And I'll have a lot more respect for those of you who only repeat stuff you find on the internet instead of educating yourselves enough to realize how innocuous silver fillings and Fl are compared to white fillings. In one breath you tell me how PhD's are evil, then you quote 'studies' from guys with PhD's.


Anyone, Bueller?



I make a living off of 'naturopaths' who come in and change out their silver fillings. Silver can last 60 years, white, average under 6. Silver cost 1/2 what white do. Pretty sure the dental industry just put that information out there to generate business. Follow the money to find the truth! They keep it a secret that you can prevent decay because they are paid to do so by the processed food corporations....... !


I did a study that showed this. It was published in a junk magazine that had the word Journal in the title. Everyone spread it all over FB. Now they all believe it! Problem is, it wasn't peer-reviewed, when it was, nobody could replicate the results and theirs were all opposite. But that wasn't quoted time and time again. And since I added Hitler to it, it really took off!


Look, I live a clean, natural lifestyle and don't support Monsanto, PhD's making money for corps by messing with genes, etc. I truly care and educate my patients about what is the best choice for them, and if they don't choose that, what they can do to have fewest detrimental effects of their choices. And while I can see how you can be tricked by some of these rumors, the truth is, if you haven't taken care of yourself properly, even if you didn't even know how, you have to be fixed. That doesn't mean I wave a wand and everything is perfect. Not one fix I can provide is perfect, and it ALL will fail over time. But when I have kids with cavities on every tooth or old people with the same as a result of taking medications they have a choice. Loose all their teeth in a year (one 22-yr old girl chose this) or use FL trays to hold Fl on their teeth at night all night, every night and keep their teeth until their situation changes. Whether they get off drugs and the xerostomia stops, or they quit snacking and drinking Red Bull all day long, or they get off of Meth. It is one or the other. I do it all the time, so as I watch this happen, it blows my mind that people post that Fl on the teeth does nothing and quote junk science studies without even considering the million other factors that were not reported, etc.



Just for your info, when you go back in time to villages around the world that are remote. Have no contact with the outside world regularly. Do not buy or sell products. Grow their own food... their teeth are great. As good as or better than mine.

As soon as soda and junk food is available inthe next smallest village closer to towns, oral health falls all the way to the bottom of society. I saw it in groups of people in San Bernardino too. Then you work your way up to the rich and famous (except Charlie Sheen) who have perfect teeth again. California has the whole spectrum, but, these groups of people do not correlate in any way with the water Fluoridation areas.

So unless a study has broken down the areas by people groups and diet, the study is useless. If you have a bunch of people growing their own food out in the bush and you test their water and it has no Fl, they WILL have less DMFT than kids in a city babysat by the TV while both their parents work. Fluoridated water or not.

If Fl didn't work I would have dozens of old people in nursing homes in floppy dentures at this point instead of firm teeth that they can still eat wholesome foods with. I know because some choose not to use FL trays and their teeth decay.

Not only does Fl tx work, I test different brands of it to find the most effective product and can tell the differences in results between them.

I have immediate, life-changing effects for people when I treat them with these products. No guessing or studies needed to show what happens.





When you deal with the public daily, you start to understand what they understand. Of their own mouths. I'd say they know about 60% of what is actually in their mouths, and 30% of why it is there. Couple that with your examples of how you read and understood the last couple 'studies' you just posted and the picture falls neatly into place. It is like telling the media the difference between what they think free climbing is, and what free soloing really is. Then what highball bouldering is. Think 30% of them will be able to tell you the correct definition the next day? Can you imagine your frustration when they harp on you the next day that sport climbing or trad climbing isn't free climbing and they bring an article printed in Vanity magazine to prove it?
Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 26, 2013 - 04:00pm PT
If Fl didn't work I would have dozens of old people in nursing homes in floppy dentures at this point instead of firm teeth that they can still eat wholesome foods with. I know because some choose not to use FL trays and their teeth decay.


Who said anything about FL Trays? I just say keep it out of the drinking water where we don't have a choice. It's in all the toothpaste unless you make an effort to avoid it, and even in some floss and hey, we can get a FL tray from you so WHY DRINK IT?

Why is the the friggin thing we need added to our water? (along with another friggin Halogen, Chlorine)

Even the FDA in 1997 ordered a warning on all FL toothpaste telling us NOT TO SWALLOW IT!

Here is a study that does look at caries reduction in unfluoridated and fluoridated areas

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v322/n6075/pdf/322125a0.pdf

Would love some credible references on why white fillings are more dangerous to health than silver mercury.

Girlfriend was a dental assistant once and got tested for heavy metals and her mercury was off the charts, undoubtedly from mixing that stuff up in quantity

Peace

Karl
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 26, 2013 - 05:06pm PT
Why would Portland and Calgary recently vote to have fluoride removed from their water?

Because freedom of choice is a beautiful thing, but mostly individual freedom has been given up for groupthink. You have a 50/50 choice on this one, so either they would choose for it, or against it.

Why would there be a measels and mumps outbreak in the UK right now killing so many kids when we have the vaccine for it? The majority choose that outbreak, and they got it.

Why do people opt not to crown their teeth after a root canal when their insurance pays for it?


Why does the majority of people vote with their money not to buy the organic, non-GMO foods?

Why do people vote for obama and not the other guys?



Why? Because they have a choice! Why do you choose to eat processed foods instead of only whole foods when you know it will be worse for your body?




The voting majority doesn't make it correct, if that is the fallacy you are implying.







Karl, giving you references for white fillings wouldn't help you any, but giving you information on how not to get cavities would.

Giving you filling info just means you have two bad choices to make.

Giving you anti-decay info means you have a good option and a bad option to choose between.


Don't get drug down by this useless argumentative thinking that some push. It is a common mentality, used by your two political parties to keep people from really voting for change. You can break free of it. It is degrading, treats people poorly as if they have no ability to think for themselves, and really gives you no true options or choices. It is an enslaving mentality.


I inhale mercury fumes all day long every day, I worked 4 12 hour days last week and an 8 hour day. My blood mercury levels are nil, but I have never eaten a fish either. If there was only one way to be exposed to each element on the periodic table here on earth our lives would be much more simple. edit: your girlfriend wouldn't be inhaling ag fumes from mixing it up, that is done in a capsule where the liquid is popped and then mixed in with the powder in a sealed environment. She would be exposed to it when the dentist was drilling out the old silver fillings which vaporizes the material, tooth or filling. Then it is inhaled. That is why they teach assistants to keep the high volume suction tip at the tip of the drill when ever it is running and to keep the water turned up high - we don't like breathing other people's teeth. But I suppose that different assistants have different techniques and those techniques WILL affect exposure. This is a great example of how I see so many misunderstandings of what goes on and how crazy rumors and beliefs get started.

I use suction systems that nobody else in town uses, 1 in 130 dentists. It does a better job suctioning than any assistant so my patients get their filings glued into a tooth that is drier than anything else could accomplish. Even a rubber dam. So they stay in. Since I started using it 3 years and 7000 fillings ago, not one has fallen out.

So since I was called a name implying I worked for the Fl industry, I should probably say this...

In the US there are 22 companies who evaluate and test dental products. The product companies make and sell anything, they don't have to tell us the truth about the products. Of these 22 companies, 21 take money for what they do. They take money from the product companies, sometimes giving the products 5 stars before they even test it.

One company, CR Foundation, is a non-profit organization that tests. They test in the lab, then they use their almost 500 volunteer dentists to test it out real-world. Our office is one of these.

So they send us products for free to see how they work. We integrate them into our practice and report back. Sometimes it is masks or gloves, sometimes ideas for office management or a book. It could be anything. We don't get paid anything. We have to pay to go to the update courses each year to be a part of this.

We have found out some amazing things with products. Like this year, we are finding that for the first time a generation of glues for white fillings are acting the opposite of all other glues for the past 40 years. They actually get stronger in your mouth over time. Even with hot/cold expansion/contraction, chewing and saliva abuse. The company doesn't know this, so they can't advertise it yet. They will find out from our research findings which are a result of following the fillings that we place for years, taking shots with the scanning electron microscope at intervals with fillings that were placed in every-day practice, not on a lab table, and are still out there being used.

We have also found that two crown materials are off the charts as far as durability goes... in the lab they have a strength 1/3 that of the ones that break in the mouth, but in the mouth they have not yet broken.


Others that are supposed to be miraculous (in the lab that the company developed) are falling off and won't stay glued on because they flex so much and break the bond. Then we looked into it further and found that there was an additional step in bonding that nobody had done before that solves it. But without following up on this stuff for years, as a large group, it never would have been discovered. So many dentists don't even pay attention to the results of the real-world research that they don't do it and wouldn't tell you, the patient. Too busy with life.

So, when I'm involved with real-world applications in this magnitude and can follow hundreds and thousands of examples over time, and pay attention... I find it unbelievable that I have not noticed or observed or heard reports of all the symptoms and complaints that you guys regurgitate about the supposed effects FL and mercury are supposed to give you. My practice is full of natroupath-like people, and on my health history form which they update each year, there are questions about how they feel with dozens of symptoms to choose from including the symptoms you describe. If it were present I would know about it. I'm looking for it and if people will tell me about their genital herpes (which I don't ask about) why won't anyone tell me about their symptoms from Fl exposure?

Karl. Not swallowing a product in use instructions and not using ir are two entirely different things. My lip gloss says do not swallow as well. I can't eat a handful of Tylenol pills, or overdo almost anything else I can think of. This is no different. Think about it.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 26, 2013 - 08:05pm PT
Do you apply this fallacy that if a lot of something is bad, a little must be bad as well to every part of your life? No. Why to one subject like you have been told? Do you apply this logic that what is not my choice must be everyone else's choice as well?

Fl is a tool that I use daily that works wonders. I'm not stupid enough to tell Chris Mac that trad climbing isn't free climbing, and insist that you shouldn't use link cams because they failed once and are now bad for everyone. Failed at a factor two load. And you shouldn't even use them for body weight aid. That is a stupid argument And it makes me sound like I don't know anything about climbing and makes it sound like , well, just like what you sound like when you talk about the tools I use to keep people chewing food instead of gumming it.


So yeah, my choices and decisions aren't in line with yours, but you are a very run-of-the mill conspiracy theorist whose views are all found and predicted by what is on the front page of any number of those type of sites online. Mine are a result of daily experience with my patients and with research and work in the scientific world. I post here in an effort to interact with and understand people's grasp of what we are talking about so I can communicate and understand my patients better while hopefully helping some here understand their own oral health.



Ps. If I were to do what Alex jones preached I would make so much more money, and my patients would all have their silver fillings replaced. I would be rich, but my patients would not benefit. Kinda different than the names you are calling me eh? Oh, and I haven't placed a silver filling in 3.5 years. Lets see what conclusions you jump to with that info!







If what Monsanto produces is so dangerous, why does the life expectancy in the countries where its products infest keep increasing?

Same reason it keeps increasing with the number of MacDonalds restaurants there are in a country. It is because there are at least three factors in life that determine longevity.








Conspiracy theorists take that which they know nothing about - stretch it and preach it. I found a statement that is similar to those they cling to with all sorts of subjects...

Apply regularly every 6 to 8 weeks, follow the label exactly, spread evenly and water all granules in well to stop the fertilizer burning/ killing the lawn.


A regular conspiracy theorist would say, HEY! IF the fertilizer burns the ground, it is bad to use in any way. I just use lemon juice! It is natural, and doesn't burn the lawn. You are in bed with THE MAN if you use fertilizer! See what complete BS this all sounds like if you know anything about the subject?
Sierra Tango

Trad climber
Ct
May 26, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
Read some Joel Salatin or watch him on Youtube. West Virginia farmer that goes beyond the "greenies". We just planted some fruit trees in the front yard and garden in the back. Get my water from a local natural spring. Not that I'm paranoid but if I can avoid the crap I will. http://www.findaspring.com/
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2013 - 02:39am PT
I grow my own veggies, use the spring water rather the tap, eat very well when I am with my wife,and live in clean mountain air, then I go traveling and it gets really poisonous. In Large parts of Catalonia Spain, and where I live in France, there is pesticide in the water, -so in parts of America it must be very much worse. I have made a choice, but my choices are getting taken away from me, by first the Euro governments, and second by the American government. I didn't ask for these laws, they where put on me by people I didn't vote for! Anyway my daughter and her kids are coming over, her old husband and his new family, and we are all going to try to have some healthy food air and recreation in the mountains-who would have thought that these simple pleasures would have become so complicated and difficult.
Yours Stevie
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 27, 2013 - 02:51am PT
If what Monsanto produces is so dangerous, why does the life expectancy in the countries where its products infest keep increasing?
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
May 27, 2013 - 12:21pm PT
Yup.. Monsanto is evil incarnate . My theory has been that when you have to feed millions of people.. it's easier (and profitable) for the government to hand over the reigns to a company like Monsanto. Most Americans don't care. They just want cheap grocery bills. Healthy/organic food unfortunately costs more which totally sucks for struggling families.

But I actually have hope... I recently had to go to the Whole Foods Expo here in LA (work related). I was completely blown away by the size and attendance of the event. "Health food" is now a multi-m/b(?)illion dollar industry. There is huge profit in non-GMO products so the industry is growing. It's bound to make it's way into the main stream in the next decade. As healthier choices become more common and cheaper.. the public will have even more options and Monsanto looses a foothold.. which is great.

We do have options. It may be impossible to totally avoid the bad stuff, but we can seek out organic farmer's markets. We can buy non-floridated water ( I pay only $1.25 for 5 gallons). Companies that pride themselves on non-GMO ingredients are labeling their products so we can look for those labels. (@Karl)The store I work for has 3 full shelves of no-fluoride toothpaste for sale BTW.


@Tooth I appreciate your thoughts. It's interesting to have input from someone with first hand knowledge. I get your points (I'll keep my original teeth thank you) but I agree that fluoride in drinking water is unnecessary.

Quote from pg 1
Be thankful you are in a country that requires gmo labeling.


Er.. what country are you living in? That bill didn't pass. The US does not require GMO labeling.
Cragar

Trad climber
MSLA - MT
May 27, 2013 - 01:07pm PT
Thanks for posting this Stevie!! Or Mr. Haston!

I grew up in the Southern San Jouquin valley and that place was toxic as hell in the 80's. I can't imagine how bad it is there now...I worked in the fields during my high school summers and the chemicals were abundant in the air and much more in the soil. I got the hell outa there. I do what I can to support legitimate organic farming and for the most part, I leave the meat alone. As you know, our leadsership is bought and paid for so of course they are all for Monsanto and similar ilk.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 27, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
LaurenceGH lives in France. The EU has had gmo labeling laws for about a decade.
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2013 - 01:35pm PT
GMo labling laws in Europe are different yes, but still not that helpful, Bio food Organic food can only contain trace amounts, but toxic food is not forced to declare its poisonous content. A few days ago I would,nt have been so forceful with my words, but basically I now adamantly against this industrial poison masquerading as food. You are being duped in America just as I have been duped in Europe, governments will do that. Last year Monsanto declared 6.2 million dollars in lobbying expenses in Washington, thats declared remember, there is other stuff than declared. My daughter wants to boycott GMO food, she's UK and basically 90% of the stuff in her cupboard has GMO in it but isn't labeled. I hope this helps. Stevie.
LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Reply - May 27, 2013 - 01:50pm PT
Sorry I have just been informed I was wrong about GMO labeling, its mandatory, but to be honest I have no confidence. If Organic is allowed a trace, what does that mean about the rest. Notice we had Horse meat turning up in huge quantities of respectable super market beef thingies recently. I have recently placed over a thousand bolts with different labeled grades of stales steel on them and frankly most of the labeling seems to be a lie, I have very little confidence in anything today. Anyway good luck.
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 27, 2013 - 02:11pm PT
New documentary on gmo.

[Click to View YouTube Video]

17:24 Glyphosate, the principle component of herbacide roundup, is a broad spectrum chelator as it pulls minerals out of plants. Great, we get cheap, nutritional deficient grains.

28:20 In India, if animals graze in BT cotton fields post harvest, they suffer and die.

30:12 The only human feeding study, showed that the gene that was inserted into soybeens, transfered into the dna of bacteria living in our intestines and continued to produce that protein.

34:20 Gmo corn has a gene that is turned on(off in non-gmo) which produces a known allergen.
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 28, 2013 - 03:06pm PT
I grew up in the Southern San Jouquin [sic] valley and that place was toxic as hell in the 80's. I can't imagine how bad it is there now...I worked in the fields during my high school summers and the chemicals were abundant in the air and much more in the soil. I got the hell outa there. I do what I can to support legitimate organic farming and for the most part, I leave the meat alone. As you know, our leadsership [sic] is bought and paid for so of course they are all for Monsanto and similar ilk.

I also grew up in the San Joaquin Valley, and paid for my first climbing gear by doing agricultural labor. I've also grown cherries commercially in conformance with EU protocols and been certified for export into the EU.

While many of us are happy to produce crops that are certified organic, or use IPM techniques, or anything else the market desires, we generally think the people paying extra for that are fools. The "known health benefits" are more religious belief than science, but the increased costs are incontrovertible.

To outrage you even more, I find the anti-gmo movement has all the morality of any other rich person's let-them-eat-cake crusade. With much of the world starving, and the ability to plant crops that would alleviate that hunger available, we will have much to answer for keeping these beneficial advances from those who would benefit from them.

John
thirsty

climber
May 28, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
I find the overlapping GMO and fluoride topics confusing, but I appreciate the need to pay attention. I am not worried about GMO products damaging my immediate health as much as they have the unanalyzed potential to damage the environment and sustainable plant lines we depend on.
As to dentistry, it really is great to hear from someone in the field in a forum like this. The quality of the work and the dentist I end up with has varied dramatically.
A dental/climbing question for Dr. Tooth:
I have been rope-soloing for many years and now my incisors are worn down to the dentin from holding those ratty sandy ropes between my teeth so much while tying knots and pulling up slack (much more of this than when climbing with a partner). One dentist tried putting a layer of some sort of resin/glue on them – something he said was used to cement in the non-metal fillings. It all broke off. Are crowns up front there a good idea and what won’t break? Will I lose my teeth if I don’t deal with it? Also – any recommendations for a mouth guard I could actually use while climbing to protect my upper and lower teeth and that would allow me to hold the rope?
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 28, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
Go tell that to royalty/elite. They must all be "fools".

Yep. . . which is why this is a rich person's, let-them-eat-cake crusade.

Do you know, that at Monsanto headquarters, GMO food is not served in the cafeteria? Why is that?

No, I don't know that. What do they serve at the Monsanto headquarters cafeteria?

John

Edit: The alleged "ban" affects one Monsanto site in England, only. Monsanto headquarters is in St. Louis.

http://crisisboom.com/2011/08/22/gm-foods-not-served-in-monsanto-cafeteria/
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 28, 2013 - 04:48pm PT
No pesticides find their way into farmworker's bloodstreams, no nitrogen runoff or growth hormones seeped into the watershed, no soils poisoned, no antibiotics squandered, no subsidy checks written.

You need to check "organic" regulations. Those crops need not be pesticide-free. I found that few city slickers know what constitutes "certified organic" for any given crop, so they assume the best. A farmer can use all sorts of nitrogen-rich additives, pesticides, etc., and still have the crop certified organic. It largely involves a question of the process that produces the additive, not its chemical composition.

I'm unaware of any subsidy effect on organic farming. A farmer can still be paid for "not growing cotton" regardless of whether the crop is or is not organic.

The biggest environmental issue here is the long-term effect of irrigating cropland. I personally worry about how little water we use for irrigation, because it does not leech accumulated salts from the soil. The effects of that will, in time, outlive any effect of modern application of agricultural chemicals, GMO's, or any other modern farming practice.

John
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
May 28, 2013 - 04:52pm PT
I didn't make the protest on Saturday, but here is the action I took:
[url=http://smg.photobucket.com/user/happiegrrrl/media/Chemical-Warfare-Black.png.html]{{img}}h~~p://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/happiegrrrl/Chemical-Warfare-Black.png[/img][/url]

We all work however we can. Some raise awareness with words, protests, civil disobedience and similar means. I guess my effort falls into that. Yes, I sell the items I do art work for - a person has to eat. And I'd be happier if I wasn't ingesting poison when I do so.

http://www.zazzle.com/stop_chemical_warfare_shirt-235708295484558403
JEleazarian

Trad climber
Fresno CA
May 28, 2013 - 05:53pm PT
but perceive it as a deeply flawed and greatly diminished criteria in large part to satisfy the desires of 'big organic' producers (i.e. large scale industrial organic food producer)

Agree, LG.

John
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 28, 2013 - 05:55pm PT
LG, if you want the science regarding the hazards of gmo in plants and soils, search info from Don Huber, professor emeritus from Purdue.

Here's one of his videos, there are many on youtupe.


[Click to View YouTube Video]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9BJHYR1nm8
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 28, 2013 - 06:10pm PT




http://www.aeonmagazine.com/world-views/michael-hanlon-unreason-belief/
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 28, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
TGT actually uses roundup on his home garden.

Don't worry, TGT, Monsansto said agent orange and DDT was safe also.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 28, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
Banning it killed 50 million people

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1259


I use "agent orange" (2-4T) too
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 28, 2013 - 08:51pm PT
Oh jeez, Alex Jones and chemtrails. You are very gullible, Donald.

edit: I see Donald Perry has deleted all of his posts. Before and after this one.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 28, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
Ethanol fuel is ethanol (ethyl alcohol), the same type of alcohol found in alcoholic beverages. It is most often used as a motor fuel, mainly as a biofuel additive for gasoline.

Bioethanol is a form of renewable energy that can be produced from agricultural feedstocks. It can be made from very common crops such as sugar cane, potato, manioc and corn. There has been considerable debate about how useful bioethanol will be in replacing gasoline. Concerns about its production and use relate to increased food prices due to the large amount of arable land required for crops, as well as the energy and pollution balance of the whole cycle of ethanol production, especially from corn.

It is most often used as a motor fuel, mainly as a biofuel additive for gasoline.

So Monsanto has been in the picture especially with potato, soybeans and corn seeds with rice forecast to be on the market in 2014 or 2015:

So corn syrup, Fritos, Corn chips, corn cereals, potato chips and it will never end. The next time you are drinking a beer which some chips is almost eating and drinking Agent Orange well a little but sure goes a long ways.

So eat well and be happy: God bless Unamerica and the profiteers.

tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 28, 2013 - 10:12pm PT
but does Monsanto own the seeds used by the organic farmers as well?

I used to farm organic food. Tomatoes, corn, melons, ginseng, carrots. Almost 700 acres in BC.

What I'm finding now is that unless we buy seeds from the smaller boutique seed companies, the resulting seeds the regular seeds grow are sterile. So now our family has been collecting strains of plants that produce viable seeds. I hope people realize this with their own grown food before it is too late. All Monsanto would need to do one year is sell packets full of dead seeds and people who thought they were growing their own, non-GMO food would be purchasing their food from store shelves again.












have been rope-soloing for many years and now my incisors are worn down to the dentin from holding those ratty sandy ropes between my teeth so much while tying knots and pulling up slack (much more of this than when climbing with a partner). One dentist tried putting a layer of some sort of resin/glue on them – something he said was used to cement in the non-metal fillings. It all broke off. Are crowns up front there a good idea and what won’t break? Will I lose my teeth if I don’t deal with it? Also – any recommendations for a mouth guard I could actually use while climbing to protect my upper and lower teeth and that would allow me to hold the rope?

I just spent 10 days at Red Rocks and tried my best to not put the rope in my teeth. Just isn't going to happen.. so..... use a clean rope? Keep it off the ground, no single-pitch climbing!






Post a picture of your teeth.

Without it I can only describe what I see happen to other people. Teeth wear through the enamel to dentin which is 7x softer. It wears faster, cups out. If you are doing this just from a rope, I'll be surprised, your teeth must fit together different as well, and probably use your teeth for other things that they weren't designed for as well. Knowing those two extra things can help in decisions for restorations.








Crowns are put on like beanies over the tooth, once you shave it down like a pencil sharpner does. You essentially remove all the enamel. Gluing to dentin only isn't very strong. It becomes easier to break off what is left of the tooth on the inside of the crown as well. Especially if you are pulling on it with a rope. So let any dentist know exactly how you are abusing your teeth, even bring a bight of rope to show him if he doesn't climb.

Veneers on the other hand, need only some of the front of the tooth removed, not even through all the enamel. Gluing to enamel is strong. You have to shorten the tooth by 2mm or so, but it sounds like you have done that already. Veneers can strengthen some teeth, you are essentially adding to the tooth. Zirconia, lithium disilicate, or porcelain. The first one is super strong. You wouldn't wear it out with a rope. You can hardly cut it with diamond burrs. Sparks fly! And they are making it look better and better so with the right lab you might find a dentist who would try to use it on your front teeth.

Using the other materials will look proper, but not be as strong. They will tell you not to abuse your teeth by putting ropes in your mouth, and give you an appliance to wear at night to protect the veneers/crowns from nighttime bruxing. (everyone does it, it's alright) Wear it if you want them to last.


As far as appliances go to wear when climbing.... have you ever seen Invisalign? I would start by making you a set of clear thin plastic trays to wear over all your teeth top and bottom. less than .6mm thick. If you wear it out, a second set can be made from your original models. Simple and you would hardly notice wearing them. Like bleaching trays but made with hard thin smooth material, Essix retainer material.


If you don't do something about your teeth the dentin on the inside will continue to wear away, the enamel around the outside will continue to chip off in chunks, and your bite will probably change accommodating the wear which makes it harder for us to restore the teeth the longer you wait. I have a patient right now who is doing this by drinking a gallon of grapefruit juice a day. So now I have to crown every single tooth in his mouth. He is 30.



















And only donald really needs to read this......


You’re so far behind its pathetic. Go back to school
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ylnQ-T7oiA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eouwfuTGHs

VS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iMFhjPSS9I[/quote]



So in my grandpa's day they used rubber dams. Nobody nowdays that is on top of their game uses those, too much leakage, spillage, poor air isolation, vaporization from the drill, etc. etc. Notice how they didn't actually show them using it in the video. They showed it on a model of teeth so donald in all his wisdom could be fooled. What I use is generations ahead of grandpa's technology there. Sorry to disappoint you.


your third/vs. video shows a typical plaque-covered tooth that looks bad underneath because of the calcium hydroxide base the dentist placed because of the deep filling that was close to the pulp. It doesn't show anything special about Ag. It looks sensational if that is the first filling you have ever seen removed. I should have recorded my work today and really grossed you out. We see that gunk all the time under fillings, now we use it in a camphorquinine base that light cures and hardens and looks better when the filling is removed. Still use pins like in the video. Nothing in that video is any different than what you would see if you removed a white resin filling in the same location treated with plaque for the same amount of time. It would look and last better with a white glass ionomer restoration over it, but that is only because GI fillings absorb Fl from topical applications and then release it slowly over time allowing the remaining tooth structure to stay healthy and resist the assaults from all that plaque that was pasted over the tooth. Your link to Holistic dentists there had dentist who were using GI. They won't tell you that this is how it works, they just say that there isn't mercury in it when they place it and that it works better. Which is true. They just don't say why. Don't be so easily fooled donald!


I'm interested in explaining this simple stuff to people so that they can understand their own bodies better and make better choices - but I'm not going to endlessly reply to some lazy guy who can't think for himself and continuously posts up mindless youtube videos that he doesn't understand and are a joke, really. If I told you, donald, that you aren't free climbing if you are using a rope through youtube videos repeatedly, wouldn't you wonder if I really knew anything about climbing?











Just one last quote to immortalize your cocky wisdom...
If you brush your teeth with coconut oil it will kill all that bacteria in your mouth and allow your teeth to rematerialize and your gums to stop receding so your teeth fall out.


.... rematerialize so your teeth fall out. That's just the advice SuperTopo needs donald!

(remineralize.... DON"T fall out!)



So next time you go to the dentist just be glad we are a group of people who treat you in the chair with decency and respect regardless of what names you call us.
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 29, 2013 - 09:24am PT
Explain any part of that link you put up for me. For example, I have seen three people die from decayed teeth - they abscessed and started bacteriemia (like this article talks about) which gave them heart attacks. No dental work done - but their lives could have been saved by doing root canals before the infection got out of control.



In your article it correctly says that there is bacteria in root canals. The reasons for root canals are really symptoms.

Q 1: what are they symptoms of? What is the name of the diagnosis?

Q 2: What are the top three most common types of bacteria found in canals and are they aerobic or anerobic?

Q3: Where does the bacteria found in the canals that this article is talking about come from?

Q4: The article says front teeth have one common canal but up to 75 canals that people don't talk about. What are these extra canals called, where are they found, and what are the two methods of obturating canals called, your grandpa's method (which is alluded to in this article) and today's method? Explain why they are different and why today's methods do clean out the '75' canals.



Q5: Finally, the article is called, "How Root canals Cause Cancer" was that explained? Or do you wonder how bacteria causes cancer now?



Q6: What are the tx options this author gives for 1. root canals 2. sympomatic wisdom teeth The website is called end all disease. Surely they will tell you how!




Some more questions I have are why there isn't a difference quoted in success rates between endodontists and general dentists, or between the two methods of obturation, and between teeth that have been properly restored and sealed and those patients who only wanted the root canal filling done and no definitive restoration on top. (more than half, and those always fail because saliva re-infects the tooth)


I tell my patients this, so his cocky sentence about telling your dentist this and watch him run and hide is really just BS to get you to believe this article. Did you fall for it?



The guy loves to quote stuff from 1925. Endodontists now use microscopes, well, every part of the procedure has changed. Much like telephones or TV's have changed since then. Did you catch that? Do you think that possibly the author is trying to make things sound more 'stone age' than they really are?



Another question that if you don't know the answer to this article will fool you.... what is the distance of the lingual foramen from the notch of the ramus of the mandible? Kids or adults it doesn't change, where does the growth happen, what is the max dimension through the ramus at this point?









So teach me these three basic questions to start with so we know you aren't just posting stuff you don't understand. You shouldn't have to look any of this up, if you don't know it, it would be truly hard to understand what that article is saying because they try to prey on your lack of knowledge to lead you to a certain conclusion. But you should at least know these basic foundational ideas. I don't want to see more garbage links that prey on your ignorance. I want to see, in point form, correct answers, just like I have respectfully replied to your nonsense link.

77 posts on SuperTopo and all you have been able to convince people of is that your personality loves to attack straw men.
McCfly

climber
May 29, 2013 - 10:15am PT
In all fairness most PEOPLE can only do what they have bee taught. The conundrum with Dr's just makes it more obvious as we really really need them when we need them.

Yes Dr's should have some capacity to think outside the box. In all reality i believe many could and it just comes down to desire to do so. Most people like the idea of helping people but when push comes to shove i need to get in 10 apt. today if i am gonna feed my family afford the vacation home and drive the fancy car that makes me think i have a better life than i do.

Fluoride and Mercury suck!
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 29, 2013 - 11:18am PT
I'm saying the plants grow just fine but when I take the seeds from them to use next year they won't grow.

I'll answer more when I have time. Have a root canal to do right now..

As far as dental materials, everything has a place. When I evaluate what works, I'm going to balance outcomes and how it effects your life after it is implemented and give my patients all the options and the resulting effects and let them choose which they balance with the tesulting effects of not having the $$ it costs for the rx as well.

If you have more than 5 areas of decay ill most likely use GI in the bottom of boxes with resin on the occluding surfaces. Nanohybrid resins everywhere except micro hybrids on the front of the front teeth. It stays polished and gets even more shiney over time. I use sixth generation self etching bond since it has never failed my patients, less dental visits.

Every dental treatment fails at some point, it is abused in a wet pitri dish with more bacteria than a dogs mouth all day. If you ever did a 'study' and found a virgin tooth without bacteria in the dentin tubules you would be laughed out of town. For a web link to say that root canals or implants are bad because they have bacteria around them really has no grasp on reality.

If people choose a large silver filling as a cheaper option to a crown, they can have it. Just haven't had one person choose that in 3 years. For smaller fillings resins are better because we have the ability to cut out the affected dentin and enamel only whereas silver fillings need a certain shape filling cut regardless of where the decay ends. Which means that comps are more conservative. I can also seal the edges of the fillings to the enamel using sandblasting before so that bacteria has a harder time getting back between the tooth ad the filling. This doesn't happen with silver fillings. It wouldn't matter if you kept your mouth open to dry in the sun all day, but it does happen once you close your mouth.


My goal is to treat my patients existing decay. Once. Then help them understand what they can do to keep it that way. It is then their choice.



I have seen too many people die from transient bacterial endocarditis. Your options to avoid this are not get cavities, or treat them soon. None of the treatment options are perfect, but none have done to a patient what the disease we are treating does. If it is mercury we are worried about, look at dentists to see what blood levels 1000x that of a person with 20 ah fillings looks like after a lifetime of exposure. If you are worried about FL, tell me what concentration spots present themselves at, then fluorosis, then whatever other signs and symptoms we are concerned about. I have just drilled wells in Haiti for orphans and we can study the effects of 3.4 ppm of naturally-occurring fl has on the growth and development of children we are taking care of and compare it to other villages there with varying levels and a population that doesn't move around, but bottled water or any of the ther hundreds of variables that are much more easily introduced in our communities. Everyone ther is in the same economic strata. Dirt poor. Makes studying easy.





















edit: Just so that I don't bump this thread, I'm replying to perry's questions below here.

Perry. I wish you would answer my questions, but since you are asking more...



How do you remove the PDL over the IAN? IT is at the apex, shouldn't it be the most important to remove from there? What is the concentration of bacteria in a root canal vs. in your mouth, in an abscess, in a vital nerve, in a non-vital nerve, in an obturated canal, in a canal with MTA or CaOH in it, in a canal prepared with hand files, in one prepared with Q-mix and other irrigation? In one prepared with laser? How were your root canals sealed? Composite resin in a fractured natural crown? Onlay, inlay, crown? How were the margins? Was there recurrent decay? Was there perio involvement? Was there root fractures? Were there accessory canals?

Just a few of the questions I ask myself when I evaluate a tooth in pain that had a root canal done in Mexico, etc. I can get into it deeper, but I think you get the point that simple minds simplify things to a point where it is a joke. To bag everything together and say it is the worst thing for your body to have a root canal isn't logically thinking about anything realistic. How can 1 lonely bacteria be worse than a few hundred million? How do you even know which species it is? You are swallowing these goofy ideas much too easily without giving it a second thought. If you would like to see some 3D scans of jaws that I have taken teeth out of and show me where the teeth were, where the cavitations are, I'd be interested. 3D. If there is a cavitation there, you'll see it. I think where you are confused on this one is that you are underestimating the wisdom of your body and it's ability to heal itself and the difference between healthy teeth/pdl and granulation tissue. You can get a persistant cavitation in your arm if you fall and grind gravel into it, never take all the gravel out, and a scar with proud tissue forms. Same thing in your mouth. Granulation tissue will form in the gingiva and slow the bone remodelling. Do you know how often this happens in real life? Do you know how often it happens when you leave a 4-walled defect or socket? 3-walled? 2 or 1-walled? Do you know how those remodel and heal? Can you predict what each one will look like in 6months to a year from now? That is more of a determining factor than removing all the granulation tissue. In the last 3000 extractions I've done, smokers get dry socket a dozen times. 1 guy had slow healing that took a month. He also had health issues that he didn't tell me about. So tell me, which of those support your theory? All the ridges now either have implants in them or are remodeled to a smooth, round ridge. How would removing the PDL in each and every one affect the bone grafting we do? Maybe I'll use a #8 round burr on the right side of every patient this next year, and all left side exo's I'll leave the pdl (not the granulation tissue on PA lesions). Then I can compare healing times and radiographic densities a year later. Because they certainly do not stay cavitiated for more than 3-6 months which is THE bone healing time depending on which type of bone it is, 1, 2,3, etc.

This is the real world. This is what I will do today with patients who are in pain, have infections that their bodies cannot resolve without surgery, and they will heal within a short period of time in a predictable way. If any of it happened the way your youtube videos described, I would think you were on to something. But it doesn't,and you aren't.




when someone you have respected for years repeats what I already said.
See, that still wouldn't change the fact that you or this person are claiming things that just aren't true, just not congruent with what i see thousands of times a year. If there were one instance of cavitation after an extraction, people getting cancer from root canals or dumb from mercury or there truly was a difference in healing between wisdom teeth and others, susre, you would have point. But there isn't and you don't. In the world of science when you make a claim it has to be repeatable in more than just your mind, or more than just replaying the youtube video to be credible.
dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 07:13am PT
Wow...
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 30, 2013 - 08:38am PT
The monty hall method is applicable to people who think a certain way, then are shown youtube videos and may or may not change their mind on a subject.


The scientific method is for people who are doing things, evaluating the results, tweaking their actions, doing it again, getting better results, trying something new, getting a worse result, discovering why, doing something else new, measuring the result, etc. What you believe about how something works is continually changing based on real-world results and more importantly what you do and how you do it changes.




You need the scientific method to provide others with the best healthcare possible.


You need the monty hall method to sit on your computer and watch Alex Jones.




Edit: just did an audit of my patients today. Of all the patients with cancer, some DID have root canals. 1800 patients. 453 with root canals. 14 with cancer. 3 of those with root canals. All root canals done after their parotid shut down during cancer treatment which they beat and are now still alive. The resulting xerostomia caused decay which caused the pulpal necrosis.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 30, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
Heard on the radio this AM that a farmer in Oregon has discovered that the GMO wheat which had been experimented with elsewhere, and which was banned from production and sale by the FDA 6 years back, is all over his field. He discovered it when he sprayed Roundup to kill the weeds and the GMO Wheat ignored it.

This has the ability to spread and eventually ruin the entire US export market for Wheat, which is huge, huge dollars.
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
May 30, 2013 - 08:07pm PT
You think everything is cool in Dr. land, and AIDS is a fact?

AIDS is not a fact? What did all those people die of?
dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 08:12pm PT
Duh, illuminati-created chemtrails.

Karl Baba

Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
May 30, 2013 - 08:19pm PT
I will say I know a great artist friend Victor Olenev that died when his teeth gave him a heart attack.

Shoulda taken better care, but doesn't mean he had to drink FL.

It's BS that GMO wheat, which is supposedly not sold anywhere in the world, was found growing in Oregon this month

Peace

Karl

TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 30, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
I'm saying the plants grow just fine but when I take the seeds from them to use next year they won't grow.


That's true of about all hybrids. And the ones that do germinate and grow have none of the characteristics of the parent plant.

Straight Mendelian genetics.

GMO has nothing to do with it.

About all of your sweet corn varieties are hybrids, won't breed true and corn will not self pollinate.

Humans have been playing with corn genetics for a very long time.




dirtbag

climber
May 30, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
LOL.


Watch out, there's a bogeyman over there.




BOO!
tooth

Trad climber
B.C.
May 30, 2013 - 11:35pm PT
That's true of about all hybrids. And the ones that do germinate and grow have none of the characteristics of the parent plant.

Straight Mendelian genetics.

GMO has nothing to do with it.

About all of your sweet corn varieties are hybrids, won't breed true and corn will not self pollinate.

Humans have been playing with corn genetics for a very long time.


Thank you for reminding me of that. I haven't thought much about what was going on, just annoyed that we were having to buy more seeds every year.
kunlun_shan

Mountain climber
SF, CA
Jun 2, 2013 - 12:31am PT
This has the ability to spread and eventually ruin the entire US export market for Wheat, which is huge, huge dollars.

Yup. Japanese are smart enough to not allow Monsanto products in their food supply. And the European Union is calling for more and better inspections of U.S. wheat, as a result of the Oregon Monsanto wheat discovery.

Japan stops importing (U.S.) wheat due to GMO variety found on Oregon farm - http://www.columbian.com/news/2013/may/30/japan-stops-importing-some-wheat-gmo-oregon-farm/

Japan and South Korea Bar Imports of U.S. Wheat - http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/01/business/global/japan-and-south-korea-bar-us-wheat-imports.html?_r=0
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Jun 2, 2013 - 09:41am PT
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jun 2, 2013 - 11:36am PT
You wouldn't happen to have written text of what is in that 2 hours and twenty minutes of video? I can probably read it in about five minutes - and I would to see what you're saying - but two+ hours?
dirtbag

climber
Jun 2, 2013 - 05:40pm PT
I think that chemtrails should be on my list of things to worry about,


Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jun 2, 2013 - 07:40pm PT
"What in the World Are They Spraying?"



IT'S DI-HYDROGEN MONOXIDE! RUN LIKE HELL!
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 2, 2013 - 10:22pm PT
zBrown

Ice climber
Brujo de La Playa
Jun 3, 2013 - 12:08am PT
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jun 3, 2013 - 12:46am PT
Stevie, more pullups buddy.

Both the Japanese AND South Koreans have suspended purchases of Winter white wheat. There's going to be hell to pay to get those markets open again for US farmers now, and YOU, the taxpayer is on the hook for as a whole bunch of gov't people will be burning midnight oil now to make this right with the Asians (and they will, but the buyers will be cautious and slow to open their pocketbooks). My prediction is that Monsanto won't pay a nickle towards this bs that they caused. There's going to be some serious fallout, financially, for farmers in the NW.

LaurenceGH

Sport climber
FRANCE
Topic Author's Reply - Jun 3, 2013 - 02:40am PT
I think there are 56 countries banning OGM 's now. The pollution of wheat by Monsanto wheat will indeed cost us all financially, and as you said Monsanto won't pay anything, they screw you from both ends and every orifice. They should be investigated not protected, and it is now very clear why Obama made them legally immune from prosecution, whats not clear is how much he benefitted from this immoral act. I just added a load of stuff on my blog, but viewers want 'climbing and pullups' not politics and health. The list of Monsanto employees who work for the us government is ridiculous. Notice Hiliary Clinton, Donald Rumsfeld, M. Taylor Mr FDA.

Bill Gates has 500,OOO shares in Monsanto and 'thinks' but really he says that OGMs produce more nutritious food, when every independent study says they have less food value and are harmful.

yours stevie.

http://steviehaston.blogspot.fr/2013/06/monsanto-politicians-lies-and-you-by.html
dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2013 - 09:44pm PT
Fools one and all, we never went to the moon!


dirtbag

climber
Jun 6, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
Don't feel bad, Proust's "Remembrance of Things Past" takes more than an hour to read and I probably won't get around to that either.
McCfly

climber
Jun 6, 2013 - 10:23pm PT
Made the evening news in Boston. Maybe it was world news i walked in on the segment half way through...
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Jun 7, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
I think it is safe to say that we did in fact go to the moon.

However it also appears that NASA and the USSR may have done a lot of fake photography.

LuckyPink

climber
the last bivy
Jun 10, 2013 - 01:38am PT
justthemaid

climber
Jim Henson's Basement
Jun 10, 2013 - 09:42am PT
All the tinfoil around here is making my teeth hurt.
Dropline

Mountain climber
Somewhere Up There
Jun 10, 2013 - 04:30pm PT
I'm not much of a tin foil hat maker myself as most conspiracy theories seem to be little more than delusional rants.

But the events of recent days, including Edward Snowden's revelations [youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yB3n9fu-rM]
, a quote from the 1995 cyberpunk thriller Strange Days come to mind.

"The issue's not whether you're paranoid, Lenny, I mean look at this sh#t, the issue is whether you're paranoid enough."

[youtube=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yaXPx6xWEQ]
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Jun 10, 2013 - 06:12pm PT
I am sure most of the people here only watch TV.

Then what are we doing on the internet? Are you sure that Supertopo is the only site most of the people here visit?
10b4me

Social climber
Jun 11, 2013 - 12:53am PT
http://www.realfarmacy.com/new-app-lets-you-boycott-monsanto-and-more-by-scanning-your-shopping-cart/
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Jun 11, 2013 - 07:59pm PT
The link above has a computer bug attached to it.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jun 11, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
What are you going to do when the county plants a new streetlight in your front yard?


http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/antonyevans/glowing-plants-natural-lighting-with-no-electricit
dirtbag

climber
Jun 13, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
BOO!
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Jun 13, 2013 - 11:02pm PT
Thanks, good movie.
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Jun 15, 2013 - 03:24am PT
MONSANTO MUST GO !!!!

GOOD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pgKAhwtteY

BETTER https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_XtCcMeWrw&feature=endscreen&NR=1

BEST https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYp6NidnFNs&NR=1&feature=endscreen






donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Jul 13, 2013 - 04:24pm PT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CLH2ynQyMw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PoSzSzomahI

this is a little interesting
donald perry

Trad climber
kearny, NJ
Jul 22, 2013 - 09:25am PT
http://www.pacc-news.com/5-2-12/heart_ingram5_2_12.html

Monsanto is taking bee hives from bee keepers and killing all the bees, and blowing smoke into the comments below. In the mean time, you cannot sue Monsanto.
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