Topic Author's Original Post - May 12, 2013 - 11:22am PT
Morning Gang,
I was taking a break, strumming on the old guitar, and the thought crossed my mind. Unless I'm crazy, it seems like the tougher my fingers get (callus, tendon/ligament strength, etc) for climbing, the crappier I get at guitar. It could also be a function of just practicing less because I'm climbing more, but it seems like they just don't move or feel like they used to on the strings.
I'd be curious to hear, especially from those climbing for many years, if you've got any similar experience. Guitar, piano, whatever. I know there are tradeoffs when you climb a lot, like my foot-modeling career is OVER.
Occasionally when the callouses build up I just use some fine sandpaper to smooth them out...
Or go, "SLAB" climbing for the same results...
Should add that right when I get back from a day of climbing, if I go to play a few rips or so, that YES, then I DO feel it in the hands and fingers...
But a few hours rest and they're back to their, "normal"
you build up muscle culture in the fingers from climbing that works against you for guitar playing,
you use your hands to make the music, so if you have fingers developed for climbing, then it is like doing brain surgery with boxing gloves on,
bike riding does the same thing,
the best players use a very light, delicate attack,
watch Duane Allman, Ritchie Blackmore, Clapton, same thing,
some people can play with bad fingers, Roy Clark was a boxer for a while, look at his hands, and he plays mandolin!
same with Bill Monroe, used to make extra money at gigs by offering the fans a boxing match for 5 dollars, screwed up hands but he still played great mandolin, i guess you have to work around it,
if you want full dexterity, you have to avoid building houses and being a blacksmith,
you want thin, bony fingers for playing good guitar, not swelled up knuckles and arthritis
Andres Segovia used a jack hammer in his spare time?
no, but he did slam his fingers while closing a sticky window one time, Billy Gibbons cut his finger open while getting into a can of hot sauce,
I think I like this "play slower" thing, seems to fit as you mellow (hopefully) with age anyway. My flatpicking is definitely not what she used to be - probably helps that I'm not trying to play some screaming guitar solos.
What are you guitar players messing around one, anyway? I've got an old Big Baby Taylor I got used on craigslist, the humidity in Mexico rusted the hell out out of the hardware, but it's good a great sound for what it is - made before they started making them down in Mexico, actually.
My pride is this old flattop (with a crack) Crafters of Tennessee, thing is a cannon.
Climbing a lot never affected my friend in the Seattle Symphony - you shoulda been a trombone player.
Hell, he barely needed fingers except to turn the pages!
The evening after climbing might be a little rough, but I never notice any problems playing a guitar because of callouses. I do fingerpicking/flatpicking/nosepicking.
In fact, people often think being a guitar will somehow help climbing finger strength, but the opposite is true.
I'm playing a '69 Martin D18 or a custom dreadnought with a cutaway, birdseye maple sides and back and an old growth redwood top. I'm a lucky guy - they're a couple a honeys.
I've two professional classical guitar playing friends. They ain't goin' cliamberin' no how, no way!
Yeah, it's a little tough keeping up the long fingernails.
Like Sprock says, my stiff, fat knuckles are a bit of an issue, and I do play better with a few days off from climbing. I mostly fingerpick these days, on Chinese Martin copies.
just stuck an XLR jack into the DIY Princeton Reverb in place of the instrument #2 jack so i can play harp and guitar at the same time without the sound guy screwing up the mix,
that is an L & G 12 string,
Epiphone SG with rewound pickups,
a 6 string with a DIY wound pickup, i used 18,000 turns of #48 so the leakage capacitance cuts out all the high end that you do not want, sounds better than the overpriced Fishman stuff,
on the left is a DIY baritone git tuned to open C for the McMurtry stuff like St Mary's of the Woods and Levelland, going to wire in a DIY Neve input tranny into the Princeton for a mic input transformer, there is a DIY output transformer in there also with 40 percent screen taps, (Ultra Linear they call it)
using reverb and vibrato for the acoustic gives you the Fred Neil sound,
DIY guitar rack holds the harps and capos upstairs,
grill cloth on the amp is a climbing shirt that was too small bought from an online Tribal company and thats enuff braggin for 1 day,
oh, and a Sambos coffee cup on the upper right full of Earl Grey
oh i know there are some heavy handed players out there, but remember, Stevie is using navy ropes for stings, i believe that is a 012 on there but he tunes to E flat,
Jimmy Page can get real heavy also, same with Pete Townsend,
now if you use a light attack, you only get 50 millivolts from a humbucker, a heavy attack will generate 4 times that voltage, so you then have signal to noise problems, that is why Blackmmore is so amazing, he uses a noisy single coil strat thru a 200 watt Marshall but with a light attack, very hard to do, like controlling an elephant,
Tony Iommi uses an extremely light attack because of his artificial fingers, i think he strings up with 008's on his SG,
when Billy Gibbons saw Duane, he changed from a heavy to light attack and his playing went up a notch,
I was thinking of Page next, then Jimi, but Hendrix could finesse the power out of his guitar or he could hammer it out. SRV never really totally backs off, even on his few sweet songs. Mark Knophler is another great player with a light touch.
Locker: But lately, focusing more on the Gibson SG (Humbuckers) through a piece of sh!t CUBE (That little CUBE is actually a screamer!!!)
I've always wanted an SG. I had saved up for it as a teenager, but I got in trouble for blowing stuff up in my backyard, so my 1,800 went to pay court fines and lawyers. More of an acoustic man now. Got an old mandolin and banjo as well, but not enough time to learn properly.
Jebus:The evening after climbing might be a little rough, but I never notice any problems playing a guitar because of callouses. I do fingerpicking/flatpicking/nosepicking.
Yeah, it's less callous trouble and more just sluggish feeling fingers, they just don't feel as nimble (but my finger locks are getting better). I'm guessing the crimp-monster sausage finger brothers at the crag couldn't shape a Dmin if they tried.
Warbler:I'm playing a '69 Martin D18 or a custom dreadnought with a cutaway, birdseye maple sides and back and an old growth redwood top. I'm a lucky guy - they're a couple a honeys.
Not bad. I was always intrigued by those sinker redwood tops, where they pull the old log up from the bottom of a river that's been sitting there for ages. This Crafters I've got has Brazilian back/sides. Smells so good. I'd never have been able to afford it, except some idiot let it dry out and cracked the top. It was repaired before they sold it to me, doesn't hurt the tone/volume as far as I can tell.
I mostly play acoustic now with my 1978 Guild D-25 (back when Guilds were good, before being bought out by Fender). I jam with my buds once a week at the coffee shop, I'm pretty much a banger with heavy touch and a voice like Joe Cocker these days.
I've got a Jap Strat, but I've got to agree with Locker, those SG's are about the sweetest thing going for an electric. Although, one of my buds just got a cherry red 335 that is "just lika ringin a bell!"
oh i know there are some heavy handed players out there, but remember, Stevie is using navy ropes for stings, i believe that is a 012 on there but he tunes to E flat,
Jimmy Page can get real heavy also, same with Pete Townsend,
now if you use a light attack, you only get 50 millivolts from a humbucker, a heavy attack will generate 4 times that voltage, so you then have signal to noise problems, that is why Blackmmore is so amazing, he uses a noisy single coil strat thru a 200 watt Marshall but with a light attack, very hard to do, like controlling an elephant,
Tony Iommi uses an extremely light attack because of his artificial fingers, i think he strings up with 008's on his SG,
when Billy Gibbons saw Duane, he changed from a heavy to light attack and his playing went up a notch,
I remember when Jack Bruce was doing a lot of climbing and playing, then they had the farewell show and he never looked back. Was He glad? Time will tell.
I am in desperate need of a backing band here on the east side for gigs. I have some friends that will play but I need gigging musicians. Badly. I can book gigs but can't find musicians willing to do work.
I also host an open mic here in Bishop: If you are a musician and in the area, please come down and join us! Good times and great music.
That sounds like a good time, I used to open mic it a bit in my day. I'm not good, but I liked overcoming the fear of performing. There's a banjo under my bed and a uke in the corner - the ice tools and passive pro get more action these days though.
It's a fact you can't be a great musician and a great climber at the same time for very long. climbing gives you too many tendon issues over time. i strive to be ok at both. I certainly could not play a gig after a hard day of climbing.
As a drummer, the effects have been 100% positive at least as far as I can tell. Increased grip strength has given me the ability to play cleaner for longer, and it has increased the tempo at which I can comfortably and reliably crank out crisp notes.
I also think that I have experienced a greater degree of "motor planning", to know what I am going to play a few bars/beats ahead of it actually happening. Definitely a result of climbing. I've been able to let myself conceive of (and pull off) more complex, oddly timed fills. Which feels a lot like grabbing the right hold in the right way at the right time. Just like, "ok here it comes, I'm gonna GET IT!" Working through the awkward/complex stuff becomes more manageable.
When I was climbing tons years ago I was also playing a lot of guitar too. I used medium strings on my Alvarez and did a lot of funky detuning. I doubt I could smash the strings down now. Currently I noodle around on my 3/4 Ibanez (fits my hands better) and may try the Ani Difranco method of taping press-on nails on my fingers since I will never have nails. I used to sand my callouses too. Playing the piano with callouses sucked, it just felt weird.
I don't know for sure but I doubt a serious full time professional musician would take those kinds of chances with their fingers.....? heck I have heard that some of those guys have insurance polocys on their hands...
I never got to meet the man but I enjoyed his spirit. And he was an amazingly gifted musician. I think about him from time to time and would love to hear some of his recordings...
Thanks for sharing the vid, made me feel more comfortable to share mine. This was a fun night for me:
My part kicks in more at 1:16 or 1:24. At one point I biffed it a bit with the harmonies clashing in the extended echo effects. Eh, what can you do. I would strive for perfection, but I avoid the temptation for that by not practicing! It's my ever-present excuse just like trotting out an old injury or talking about too much cubicle time at the start of a climb. Always keep an excuse handy :)
Edit: As I re-read what I just wrote, I thought about Jonathan Livingston Seagull, and how making excuses and not practicing are not what I aspire to. Different times I focus on different areas of my life, but at no point do I accept mediocrity just as a matter of course because of laziness or fear of judgment. Wow, I need to get out climbing. But first, I'm going to take a break from the taco brain-freeze and go play some guitar.
This is shaping up real nice, got a little piano tossed in as well? Can't beat that. If anyone has some cello stuff, they should post it up. I used to play that and violin as a kid, but my hands outgrew the 3/4 size violin, and the cello was borrowed from the school. I loved that thing.
This is my bluegrass cannon, just played something simple for my grandmother but you can get an idea of the guitar.
For me the biggest issue is fingernails... I use the nails on the thumb and first three fingers of the right hand for picking...and I have to clip them fairly short when I go climbing just so they won't rip off. Frustrating at times.
Thanks amigo - RC-50 but the 300 looks pretty sweet. Dig the expression pedal. Boss makes a pretty nice product, I was stoked on the loop station as soon as I had it hooked up.
man o man, just blew the work productivity for the afternoon :)
I relaxed to some Chopin, got enamored with a new looper tool/toy I need to get, and rocked out to a cool and distinctive fingerpicking style. Then enjoyed some other cool guitar stuff in a totally different style. There's some non-climbing talent around this place. Thanks guys!
In a few months after I get stuff unpacked from boxes and easy access to recording, will have to revive this thread for some new creations and keep the little music support group alive.
Yeah, that loop thing is pretty cool. So, what are guys using to record? I'm sort of primitive with a Zoom H4 then using Audacity to trim the ends and normalize.
Before I moved to LA, my band recording setup was Ubuntu Studio based linux apps. Some people get religious about Ground Up, I got religious about Open Source:
ffado drivers controlling an Mbox hardware A/D converter with mic and line inputs
linux real-time kernel tweak to get less choppy audio
Ardour as the main recording/mixing/effects plugins interface
JAMin for mastering the final mix
patchage for virtually wiring all the Jack apps together
Audacity for converting the .wav mixdown (Ardour output) to .mp3
(could use lame for command line, but Audacity is easy too)
For my guitar effects, I've got mixed feelings about the Line6 POD-HD500. Very flexible and versatile, but terrible presets. Lots of work to tweak it the way you like, and then try to normalize the output levels for different patches is hard (e.g. for live shows to get similar volume levels on each patch). That messed me up a lot even during jam sessions, stopping to fiddle with levels and tone and getting in the way of just playing and having fun with the gang.
I really like my old Line6 AX2 2x12. Nice sounds, no fiddling necessary, but fiddling is available if you want it. And it's heavy to lug around.
Then there's the Taylor 12-string, the Takamine classical with built-in pickup, the import Fender Strat, and the old Yamaha steel string my dad picked up in the Philippines during Vietnam. And a beater classical I bought for $90 about 20 years ago, that I still take on camping trips.
"Gone Ridin" - original tune by Steve Yasmer and RDA. 2000. Written after having a conversation of how some of the ladies weve known in the past left us riding off- either on Harleys or horses loL, then,,,
after a shot or two of tequilla, i whipped out a melody that Steve tapped right into. 15 minutes later, it was written and done. One of those "times".. The above is JUST a studio scratch track with two dubs.
Boy been a long time but I remember the stand but it came I think from Roland could be wrong but like the change. How was the dubbing and did you hear back from Larry Thomas yet. I am waiting holding my breath. Kidding but let me know what he said. That's history.
Threw down a version of this track recently, processed through Pro Tools as a single-track through my live loop setup (RC-50) with mando, bass, and guitar.
Let us know!