Stepping on the Rope OK?

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Messages 61 - 80 of total 94 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
ms55401

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
May 12, 2013 - 12:18am PT
I don't think this is a troll. It's a pretty good example of one of those old practices ('wives tales', if you must) that has been fairly debunked in recent years.

If someone has demonstrated science showing how Rope A, subjected to heinous trampling abuse, consistently failed well before Rope B, treated with princess-like care, I'd love to see it.

this post should have been the last post. but it isn't.

I'm not saying gratuitously step on your rope and do a John Travolta spin, but it's not worth fetishizing an unstepped-upon rope. Ropes get stepped on, even by crampon-adroned boots. Ain't no thang.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 12, 2013 - 07:20am PT
Jfs, Ice climbing there are many,many situations where you have more serious sh#t on your mind than worrying about if you or someone else stepped on the rope. In 30++ years of climbing i have seen only one rope actually dammaged from crampons. It was kicked repetedly by the leader with freshly sharpened horozontal front points. Rope on snow the poons never penetrate, rope on rock if the poons are dull nothing happens, sharp poons as in first 3 weeks out of the box, yes they will penetrate the rope so that should be avoided. It has been tested and usualy the points that penetrate do not cut the fibers, they slide between the fibers. still not a good idea at all.
More P2 madness. <br/>
Photo by Isa Oehry
More P2 madness.
Photo by Isa Oehry
Credit: tradmanclimbs
One or two pitch like this and the poons are usually dull enough it is a non issue;)
Reeotch

Trad climber
4 Corners Area
May 12, 2013 - 08:31am PT
YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY NEVER STEP ON YOUR ROPE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, EVER!
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 12, 2013 - 08:37am PT
good luck with that one;)
Spider Savage

Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
May 12, 2013 - 08:53am PT
It's bad luck to step on a rope.

May or may not be a fact. But it's a "best practice."
jfs

Trad climber
Upper Leftish
May 12, 2013 - 09:40am PT
Tradmanclimbs,

Cool.

And interesting. Just not my experience.

Cheers.
covelocos

Trad climber
Nor Cal
May 12, 2013 - 10:17am PT
Step on my rope and you owe me a beer.
rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
May 12, 2013 - 10:30am PT
I'd say something to someone who just casually walked across a flaked rope; that's just plain stupid. There could be a sharp rock underneath, and full body weight applied through a portion of a single foot could create enough pressure to nick the sheath.

The fact that it is unlikely that such actions will hurt a rope is the wrong way to think about it. There is a small non-zero probability that the rope will be hurt, as Cosmic's experience proves beyond question. When the simplest precautions can eliminate such possibilities, it is foolish not to take them. I've never seen a situation in which you couldn't nudge the rope aside with a toe and not step on it, so what's the big deal?

The trouble is that what amounts to the most elementary common sense ends up formulated as an inviolable commandment, "Thou shalt not step on thy ropes!" and then the silliness of such an absolute prohibition undermines it's appropriatness.

I often gently step on my ropes when setting up rappels, to eliminate rope weight while I'm threading my device. But of course I do this on a flat area without sharp edges or pebbles, and I don't come anywhere near applying full body weight.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 12, 2013 - 11:08am PT


"It's bad luck to step on a rope."...


100% BULLSH!T!!!...

as in 100% BULL SH#T!!!...

There is no GOOD LUCK/BAD LUCK involved...

That's HOKUS POKUS BULL SH#T...

;-)

Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 12, 2013 - 11:17am PT
rgold, the voice of reason and common sense.
FRUMY

Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
May 12, 2013 - 11:20am PT
Oh come on Locker.

Next you're going to be saying there is no one living on the back side of the Moon.

If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have no luck at all.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 12, 2013 - 11:23am PT


"Next you're going to be saying there is no one living on the back side of the Moon.
"
...


Wouldn't that be, just your luck...

;-)

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
May 12, 2013 - 11:27am PT
I often gently step on my ropes when setting up rappels

nor would I hesitate to step on a rope running through an anchor to a surprise out of control falling climber if this were the last resort, as sometimes only a couple pounds are needed to arrest slippage.

;)
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 12, 2013 - 11:29am PT

Question = "Stepping on the Rope OK?"

One Answer = "I often gently step on my ropes when setting up rappels"


So your answer ALSO is, "YES"...(EDITED: With explanation)



rgold

Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
May 12, 2013 - 09:46pm PT
Question = "Stepping on the Rope OK?"

One Answer = "I often gently step on my ropes when setting up rappels"


So your answer ALSO is, "YES"...(EDITED: With explanation)

Well, at least you added the "with explanation" proviso. But if you are going to quote out of context, you could just have well quoted the part where I said stepping on the rope is "stupid."
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 12, 2013 - 09:47pm PT


"But if you are going to quote out of context, you could just have well quoted the part where I said stepping on the rope is "stupid."..."...



True...

I could have...

;-)
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 12, 2013 - 09:54pm PT
Rope on snow the poons never penetrate

Uh, I guess you've knott done that experiment on neve. And just how could
it not do some damage? It may not do major damage but it can't
be good for it and it most certainly could do major damage cumulatively.
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
May 12, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
Neve is neve, snow is snow. Not a great idea either way but not worth blowing your top at someone when you have a serious climb to deal with. keep it calm, keep it informative but do not treat it like a cardinal sin, a black and white rule that has been broken and now deserves serious repremanding. That approach will only ruin the vibe of the climb.

The rope I am useing today, a 10.2 Sterling Marathon. the very first day I used it was a GU FA of an 11a trad climb. I blew a bird beak drilling a bolt, took a 20 footer with the power drill, bolt kit, hammer, pins, FA rack etc. Well over 200lbs. Both Ed and I then took multiple falls in the same spot trying to free the climb. I have since then rapped many virgin rough cliffs cleaning and trundeling. Jumared quite a few pitches, bunch of solo gri gri TR time, lots of lowering and had a few additional falls on this rope. It will be retired soon not because of dirt but because of heavy use. BTW lowering causes more wear on your rope than just about any other climbing activity.

Today I had this rope stacked on a grassy dirt belay ledge. I kept my feet on the rope to keep my shoes dry after last nights rain. It was safer leading with dry shoes. I rarely use a rope bag/tarp as it is just one more gimick to carry around. YMMV
Rudder

Trad climber
Costa Mesa, CA
May 13, 2013 - 03:50am PT
"""Observed faults and failures
The Technical Committee (*1 UIAA comment, see end of paragraph) has received 20 reports of failures and/or serious damage to ropes (both dynamic and static) over the last 15 years. Two failures were caused by contamination of the rope by corrosive substances, one (dynamic) rope was damaged but did not fail as a result of excessive jumaring (*2 UIAA comment, see end of paragraph) and the remainder were due to serious abrasion over rough or sharp rock edges. In a small number of cases, abrasion to the rope resulted in its failure during a fall with serious consequences, including one fatality.
UIAA Comments on this part
1) The BMC Technical Committee
2) use of a rope clamp

How to prevent failure in use
The key to preventing failure during use is to minimise abrasion, or at least recognise serious abrasion to a rope before you use it through regular physical inspection of the entire length of the rope. This is probably most easily done whilst coiling the rope after a climbing session, and should be practised without fail. Assuming that there is no visible damage to the rope when you begin using it, the overriding priority whilst in use is to avoid allowing the rope to drag over sharp edges and rough rock as in Figure 10.3. This necessitates constant attention to where the rope might run during a climb, and also to how and where it will be loaded over the rock in the event of a fall. This in turn requires some skill and knowledge on the part of the climbers whilst placing runners (look out for sharp edges and protrusions near your runner placements) and setting up top-rope or belay anchors (often the use of a rope protector or padding material is appropriate).

Figure 10.3 Serious damage to a rope in use Photo: BMC Collection
In addition:
Do not throw the rope down onto gritty or sandy ground if at all possible small particles of dirt or grit can adhere to the nylon and then be ground into the sheath or core during normal use. Potentially this could cut some of the ropes fibres and cause it to fail with no visible evidence that it had been weakened.
Avoid standing on your rope for the very same reason. It goes without saying that you should exercise extreme caution whilst using your rope with ice tools and crampons.
It is advisable to avoid speedy abseils, which allow the abseil device to heat up very rapidly and can cause melting of the rope if the descender remains in contact with it at the end of the abseil nylon has a low melting point!"""

For years I've been annoyed with snarky comments about stepping on ropes. I've always told my gang to try to avoid it but it was really not worth getting excited about. Certainly scolding someone about stepping on a rope was silly. But, recently I've read the UIAA and other reports that say my viewpoint is not correct. Chemicals, sharp edges, and dirt and grit are the main reasons ropes break.

The following link is making the same point, "don't step on the rope" may not be an old wives tale after all:

http://www.climbing.com/skill/dirty-little-secrets/
Dr.Sprock

Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
May 13, 2013 - 05:36am PT
what about sleeping on the rope, and danger from nocturnal emissions?
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