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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Listen to Coz & Ksolem, they are right on.
MRI first --- then build the core.
Give yourself a fighting chance to heal & recover.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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My lower back issues are purely muscular (according to doc's x-ray and separate PT opinion), but it has been debilitating at times and forced me to change my career.
Two largest things that help.
1) Holding Plank pose, elbows on floor. I usually do 3 sets of 1-minute holds (use a stopwatch).
2)Stretching the hamstrings.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Being that i burst l2 and dislocated l1 not long ago, (plus some spinal cord damage..) i can say that lower back is definetly and issue. Truth is it's always been ever since i was a kid. I have learned a few things tho in my last 11 weeks.
1. Get a mri, to make sure you don't have a herniated disk or worse.
2. Stretching is mucho importante senior!! Mucho! Your leg muscles are pulling on those glutes which are connected to the lower back muscles.
3. Posture, posture, posture! Pull your chin back with your spinus erector muscles (the muscles which line either side of your spine) relax your chest and shoulders while doing it. Look regal. Don't worry.. It's hard.
4. Use your transverse abdominus, this is basically your lower abs, it's the one you use to suck in your guts.
5. Build those abs. I can't even do a sit up yet. I can however do four point ok. Four point is kneeling on your hands and knees and engaging your abs, then lift a hand off and remain completly still. Your knee opposite your hand should feel weightless. DO NOT SHIFT. If you're doing it right you'll start shaking eventually ;) otherwise you are cheating. Make sure your shoulders are fully extended before you take that hand off. It should be hard. If not, lift the unwieghted knee also.
6. Get a good physio to help you make sure you're not cheating!!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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mooser,
I sent an email to our Supertopo listed profile email
I just had major spine surgery 32 days ago, check out my email
john
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Topic Author's Reply - May 9, 2013 - 10:49pm PT
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Thanks, guys! You both clearly know of which you speak!
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Thanks for the mags btw. Can't wait to start digging into them.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Topic Author's Reply - May 10, 2013 - 12:59am PT
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Glad Wayno is a generous guy, and willing to pass them on! Probably about 30 years worth there. Hope you are healing up well, Big Mike! My back issues pale in comparison.
Looking forward to my next trip to Squamish!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 10, 2013 - 01:27pm PT
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Pull your chin back with your spinus erector muscles (the muscles which line either side of your spine) relax your chest and shoulders while doing it. Look regal.
I love that!
My wife has some cervical issues exacerbated by years with a "head forward" posture (always on a mission.) I've worked on it with her, but I think that "look regal" cue will really resonate. Anyone who's met "The Barbara" will know what I mean.
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saa
climber
not much of a
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May 10, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
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Make love to a woman 5 times a day.
Hiiihiiiihiiii. This one was way too tempting.
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steveA
Trad climber
bedford,massachusetts
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May 10, 2013 - 01:56pm PT
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The doctors are amazed at my activity level, considering the fact that my l3,4 and 5 lower vertebrae are fused due to no disc space and arthritis.
I did them in from excessive heavy lifting for over 30 years.
I plan to do the RNWF of HalfDome next month, with my son. That will be a pain-fest for me, but not for my son, who does not abuse his back.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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May 10, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
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My 30's and 40's were filled with lower back pain.
In my 50's I am pain free thanks to yoga.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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Topic Author's Reply - May 11, 2013 - 11:25am PT
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Been looking into local Pilates offerings. A bit spendy, but doable. For those of you who do Pilates (I have no experience with them), is it best done in a "studio" with a drill instructor, or is a DVD sufficient?
SteveA: Have a blast on Half Dome with your son!
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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May 11, 2013 - 11:34am PT
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BOOBS - They solve everything!
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darkmagus
Mountain climber
San Diego, CA
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May 11, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
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I'm a chiropractor. I cringe when I read "anti-chiro" statements on here because I know that they are most likely based on a lack of understanding. And that lack of understanding could be the basis for advice, which would be wrong, because there's a mountain of evidence supporting the management of low back pain (acute or chronic) with chiropractic care. And your fellow climbers on here will be misled and perhaps not get the right kind of help when they need it. Save the detailed speculative analyses and critiques for purveyors of the medical literature.
Chiropractic is superior to PT for episodes of LBP. Doesn't mean that PT won't help, but that's not what the evidence says nowadays. It says you should try conservative management, and that you should try spinal manipulation performed by someone that is really good at it (a chiropractor).
But really, don't listen to any advice on this thread, seek the counsel of the health care professional of your choosing.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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May 11, 2013 - 12:39pm PT
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Go to the studio mooser. Until you know what you are doing. It's too easy to cheat to get the result you are looking for, but not actually do the excersise. Chiro rules too. If you find a good one. Some of them are like bad mechanics, they only do half the job so you have to come back.
Ksolem- that's my physio assistant Derek's saying. I agree it works quite well. When my back starts hurting, i straighten up and it stops until i slump again... Pain is a good cue i guess.. It's so hard to have good posture. You have to do it all the time!
But really, don't listen to any advice on this thread, seek the counsel of the health care professional of your choosing.
I take exception to that. That was my first statement!!
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 11, 2013 - 01:11pm PT
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Here's a beautiful example of the Pilates "series of five."
http://Alissa Wyatt
The only thing she does not make perfectly clear, although she does it perfectly, is that when you roll up through your head, neck and shoulders you want to find that magic spot where the bottom of your shoulder blades are just touching the mat, no higher and no lower.
Mooser, a good way to go is to pony up for a few privates to get your fundamentals, then do regular group classes, which cost much less. By "group," I mean ideally four people, no more than five. A good teacher can handle a group that size and still give individual attention.
The exception is when a master teacher has a large group of experienced people who do not need individual attention.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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May 11, 2013 - 01:19pm PT
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What works for chronic low back pain? Assuming serious pathology has been ruled out....
-Maintain a normal body weight
-Core exercises
-Good abdominal tone
-Proper lifting techniques
I found that squirt boating (a discipline of whitewater kayaking) has been really good for my back, since it's a serious abdominal and core workout. If you ever wanta serious core workout come paddle with me in West Virginia...
Squirt Boating at the Halls of Karma, New River
My favorite little playground
[Click to View YouTube Video]
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Heyzeus
climber
Hollywood,Ca
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May 12, 2013 - 01:10pm PT
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/07/back-pain-breakthrough-major-operations
Back pain breakthrough could eliminate need for major operations
Discovery could transform treatment of chronic lower back pain and save health services millions of pounds
Ian Sample, science correspondent
guardian.co.uk, Tuesday 7 May 2013 04.30 EDT
When patients have no other options, surgeons can fuse damaged vertebrae, or transplant artificial discs into their spines, but both of these operations might largely be replaced with courses of antibiotics. Photograph: Christopher Furlong/Getty Images
The figures make for grim reading. When all costs are considered, the NHS spends more than £1bn each year on back pain. More than half goes on hospital costs. But £140m covers GP consultations, with even more spent on physiotherapy sessions. On any given day, 1% of the national workforce is on leave with a back problem.
Most people recover from acute back pain within six weeks but for a fair portion, around 8%, the problem becomes long-term. In the past, doctors prescribed bed rest for back pain. They now accept that only makes the pain worse, and instead recommend physical exercise, or at least staying active.
In more than 80% of cases, there is no clear cause of back pain. But to the long list of factors, from lifting and posture, to stress and anxiety, scientists in Denmark have now added bacteria.
Microbes should not be lurking in the spine, but Hanne Albert and her team at the University of Southern Denmark found a common bug called Propionibacterium acnes inside the slipped discs of patients who had operations for the problem. The bacteria normally live without oxygen, in hair follicles, or at the bottom of crevices in teeth, but brushing teeth can sweep them into the bloodstream.
The bacteria should pose no threat as they circulate around the body, but when a person has a slipped disc, the body grows fresh blood vessels that reach into the soft disc to repair the tissue. This gives the bacteria a route in, where they can thrive, scientists believe. As the bacteria grow, they cause inflammation around the disc, and release propionic acid, which irritates nerves, and may even cause the painful microfractures seen in vertebrae around the disc.
The Danish researchers found that a long course of common antibiotics, lasting three months, killed off the bacteria, and alleviated pain in most patients who took part in their trial. All had been in pain for more than six months and showed signs of vertebrae damage in MRI scans. They took six to eight weeks to feel better.
The drugs must be taken for so long because the blood supply to spinal discs is very poor. Once the disc is free from infection, the inflammation dies down, and the vertebrae begin to heal.
The discovery could transform the treatment of chronic lower back pain and save health services millions of pounds by doing away with unnecessary operations. When patients have no other options, surgeons can fuse damaged vertebrae, or transplant artificial discs into their spines, but both of these operations might largely be replaced with courses of antibiotics.
The treatment is controversial because greater use of the drugs can lead to more antibiotic resistance, already a major problem in hospitals around the world. The scientists have joined forces with a small team of experts to make educational material and guidelines for doctors and surgeons, to help them target the right patients.
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Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
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May 12, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
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A big question this "discovery" brings up: Why in the heck are the rates for chronic back pain so high in the developed world and virtually non-existent in undeveloped countries? Also, the ratios of chronic pain vary considerably from one developed country to another: 1 in 3 in the US, 1 in 4 in Europe, and 1 in 5 in Australia. A native-born Kenyan almost never has a so-called "bad back". However, if you transplant an American or a European or a Japanese to Nairobi, they will have lower back problems at the same rate as in their point of origin. How is this so, if a bacteria is solely responsible for lower-back complaints? There just have to be some psycho-social variables that have to be factored in to the different rates of infection from country to country and culture to culture. You'll notice too in the article that the bacteria only seems to account for back pain in 20-40%. What about all the other cases of lower back pain? What's causing it in the other 60-80% that don't have the bacteria in their systems?
And how about CTS, RSI, TMJ and frozen shoulder? Are there different bacteria associated with these conditions? It's interesting in this context to observe the history of stomach ulcers, which used to be blamed solely on stress. That is, until a bacteria was discovered in the stomachs of some (but no all) people with ulcers. Now there are drugs that target that bacteria and the rates of stomach ulcers have gone down considerably. Ulcers are no longer what is called a "preferred symptom" that develops under psychological stress. Now there are new "preferred" symptoms like back pain, knee pain, and more recently the foot. Of course, almost no one has classical hysterical symptoms like the ones that Charcot and Freud observed anymore either. I would suggest that the recently discovered bacteria can start growing in the soft tissues of patients who have been under a great deal of psychological stress, either external or self-imposed due to personality traits. So, despite out mechanist, dualist bias, it's still a bit premature to exclude psychological causes as reasons for the development of lower-back pain.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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May 12, 2013 - 04:19pm PT
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A big question this "discovery" brings up: Why in the heck are the rates for chronic back pain so high in the developed world and virtually non-existent in undeveloped countries?
good question
my guess is because the data behind the question may be seriously challenged?
people in third word (undeveloped) countries simply live, suffer, and die
record keeping is virtually nonexistent and there really is no medical care to speak of
outside of that, I suppose one could also put forth that people in the third world are much more physically active, constantly trying to secure food and shelter and as such move more blood and oxygen through their cardiovascular systems, promoting an overall less abusive
nah, on second thought I will go with live, suffer without reporting, and die
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