OT: Stephen Hawking boycotts conference in Israel

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nutjob

Sport climber
Almost to Hollywood, Baby!
Topic Author's Original Post - May 8, 2013 - 11:51am PT
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/05/20135893720576820.html

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/physicist-stephen-hawking-wont-attend-israeli-conference-cites-personal-reasons/2013/05/08/98521b3c-b7c2-11e2-b568-6917f6ac6d9d_story.html

Perhaps I should have put this in a political thread, but this seems pretty newsworthy, even to folks who ignore the squabbling in religious and political threads.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 8, 2013 - 11:52am PT
eh, what does he know?

I've always been impressed with that guy.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 8, 2013 - 11:56am PT
I notice Bill Clinton is still attending..
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 8, 2013 - 11:59am PT
Bill isn't as smart as Stephen.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
May 8, 2013 - 12:23pm PT
The Rolling Stones are in town that weekend.

Hawking's got his priorities straight. The man's not stupid.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 8, 2013 - 12:43pm PT


"I notice Bill Clinton is still attending.. "...

Dude will do just about anything to avoid the wrath of...

...
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 8, 2013 - 12:44pm PT


Fuking A!!!...

That last post I just made is almost a "One Adam SIDEWALL"...

LOL!!!...
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
May 8, 2013 - 01:21pm PT
I heard that Mel Gibson isn't going either.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
May 8, 2013 - 01:32pm PT
I'm giving it a miss too, but only because Stephen Hawking told me to.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 8, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
Maybe he found the truth:

Israel’s Mossad secretly releases chemical agent in Syria’s civil war.

Israel reports chemical weapons used in Syria to UN.

UN and the US investigate.

1+1= US now committed to get involved with the crisis with additional 16 million in humanitarian aid and a couple of more satellite phones to the rebels that they have in the past months.

Israel denies any connection with this incident so the US keeps Israel clean.

News release; Oct. 23 2013

Sen. John McCain III from Arizona could not be reach for comments when he had said back in June 13th of this year that it was correct for the use of outside contractors like Erik Prince R2 in helping rebels by supplying additional arms against Assad with following his quote made in April 30th on CNN regarding PRESIDENT’S REMARKS ON SYRIA;

Sen. McCain had said “There are many options at our disposal, including military options short of boots on the ground in Syria, that can make a positive impact on this crisis, which is destabilizing the region. The President must act now or risk squandering U.S. credibility in Syria and around the world.”

Other Republicans could not be reached as well or were trying to correct themselves or said that their comments were taken out of context on the issue of R2 and Erik Prince giving Man-Portable Air-Defense System [MANPADS] and Short-range Air Defense [SHORAD]: FIM-92 Stinger is a personal portable infrared homing surface-to-air missile (SAM) plus the new accurate, reliable and flexible RBS 70 NG VSHORAD system with the upgraded version included an improved sighting system capable of night vision as well and additional others more deadly to the rebels and that 10,000 have either been stolen or went missing and now are in the hands of Al-Qaida, Hezbollah and other militant groups.

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

Credit: lostinshanghai

When asked about other large amounts of missing funds that were transferred to the rebels they said no comment and said there is no need of any further investigation and that they were not covering up anything.

Their only comments were the missing funds [that are to believe to be over 30 million] would have no effect in the daily activities in the average middle class family and is a very small amount.

One Republican who said under condition of anonymity “that is not even close to what we spend on booze during our lunch and golf games when we pretend to work for getting this country back to Bush/Reagan era.
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
May 8, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Isn't it interesting how for hundreds of years nobody wanted or was interested in the land that is now Israel, but after seeing what the Israelies have accomplished there in a mere 70 years everyone wants it?
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
May 8, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
Isn't it interesting how for hundreds of years nobody wanted or was interested in the land that is now Israel [...]

It's almost interesting that someone actually believes that.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 8, 2013 - 05:26pm PT
+1 Kos.

It takes a special kind of person to think nobody wanted or was interested in that land before the Zionists TOOK it.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 8, 2013 - 05:35pm PT
One change to the story as soon as they get in and still is;

Credit: lostinshanghai
WBraun

climber
May 8, 2013 - 05:58pm PT
Who the fuk gave that moron terrorist Shimon Peres the Nobel Peace Prize?

The whole fuking Israel govt. is a terrorist state run by morons and criminals.

The USA is run by those same morons.

Stephen Hawking should have gone over there instead of boycotting and ripped them all a new verbal aszhole ......
crankster

Trad climber
South Lake Tahoe, CA
May 8, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
Run by those same morons? What does that mean? The same people run Israel also run the US? That's so stupid. Jesus, that's stupid.
Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
May 8, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
^^^ I agree with Werner on this ^^^

Israel has a problem with anything Palestinian and would rather the globe be rid of them, also preferring that the rest of the globe turn a blind eye to their personal apartheid experiment they have going on inside Israel and Palestine.

Every week I listen to my radio program that broadcasts The Electronic Intifada report. Also found here - http://electronicintifada.net.

I've heard took much to think that Israel is anything but a terrorist organization/state, and are willing to go to great lengths to make sure that nobody notices or calls attention to what they are doing daily to the Palestinian people.

I hate to say it, but these are one people who I was sure would never perpetrate on others what had been perpetrated on them for so long.

Its just sad
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 8, 2013 - 08:28pm PT
Just keep in mind, it ain't "the Jews" it is the Zionists. They are no better than any other religious extremists. I know plenty of Jews who disapprove of the Israeli occupation, just like I know plenty of Muslims who disapprove of Al Qaeda and plenty of Mexicans who disapprove of Taco Bell.
Curt

climber
Gold Canyon, AZ
May 8, 2013 - 10:33pm PT
I heard that Mel Gibson isn't going either.

How did this not get previous mention? Best post in this thread by country f*#king mile.

Curt
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
May 9, 2013 - 08:51am PT
Please don't post any more photos like that of Hillary Clinton. I'm going to have a nightmare about it, I think.
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 9, 2013 - 09:12am PT
what's a lib to do when their beloved un is responsible for giving a nation to their personification of evil?

by the way, the only way hawking would be born today is to a pro-life mother
monolith

climber
SF bay area
May 9, 2013 - 09:14am PT
Bookworm's right, cuz ultrasound machines can predict ALS decades in advance now.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 9, 2013 - 09:17am PT
bookworm is a fuking moran. I'm saddened that we have to share this world with the likes of him.
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
May 9, 2013 - 09:26am PT
Hawking is a scientist of tremendous integrity. As one of the greatest thinkers in his field, he publicly announced at a conference in Dublin that he was WRONG about a theory that he (and Kip Thorne) defended for 30 years. That takes some real humility.
rSin

Trad climber
calif
May 9, 2013 - 09:30am PT
he could sure teach that tebow a few things
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 9, 2013 - 03:31pm PT

“Despite his reputation in the West as a "dove", Peres' career to date includes war crimes in Lebanon, support for collective punishment of Palestinians in Gaza, and, in private discussions, incitement against non-Jewish citizens. Anyone would do well to avoid a conference hosted by such a hypocrite. Simply not being Ariel Sharon does not really cut it; Peres should be scheduled for a trip to The Hague, not welcoming foreign dignitaries and celebrities.”


Todays:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2013/05/20135953058699815.html

Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
May 9, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
Isn't that the same picture of Hillary they show patients in Hospital ERs to help treat individuals checking in with erections lasting more than 4 hours? Cialis and Viagra induced erections just don't stand a chance.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
May 9, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Retinas dont stand a chance lol!
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
May 9, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
by the way, the only way hawking would be born today is to a pro-life mother

Showing off yer smarts again, eh bookworm?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyotrophic_lateral_sclerosis




Elcapinyoazz

Social climber
Joshua Tree
May 9, 2013 - 04:11pm PT
Isn't that the same picture of Hillary they show patients in Hospital ERs to help treat individuals checking in with erections

Uh, Rodger? You ain't exactly Clark Gable, brah.
mt10910

climber
May 9, 2013 - 06:16pm PT
where to begin.

Hilary is 65 years old. To knock her for how she looks is offensive on so many levels. Do folks have mothers? Dads? Grow up.

Stephen Hawkings has integrity? He cheated on his wife. You call that integrity? What are you talking about. Sure the guy is good with numbers, but what a person does is not who he is.

Israel wants all Palestinians gone? Really? That makes no sense.
Israel is as dependent on the cheap Palestinian work force as we are on the cheap Mexican work force.

Please do some reading,or some climbing or some climbing reading and stay away from discussions about a strangers integrity, Hilary's looks, and why semetic folks got issues with each other.

carry on
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 10, 2013 - 06:29am PT
the (il)liberal (il)logic of moral relativity:

in 1973 hawking attended a conference in the ussr AFTER the soviets brutally oppressed uprisings in hungary and czeck...the soviets, by the way, also sent dissident scientists to the gulag

in 2007 hawking attended the physics olympiad in iran where they still stone adultresses, hang homosexuals, and persecute non-muslims


what's life like in israel? 1.6 million arabs live in insrael (20% of the population) with full citizenship rights; they vote; serve in the knesset, on the supreme court, in the foreign service, in the media, on the police forces, and even in the military

yep, sounds terribly oppressive to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWwCKvvodBA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLgDQzDNr1Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6iKFQDEP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etDb5tXPawc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIBNRVgq59Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZEGsnWZKh8




winston smith is dead
rSin

Trad climber
calif
May 10, 2013 - 06:35am PT
so thats whos body we saw that pastor shitting down the neck of on cnn's trinity simulcast

tell us about the gulags your itch is pining for?
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
May 10, 2013 - 06:50am PT
his pursuit for the theory of everything
must be pretty demanding.

no time for anything else
when you're tieing a bow around infinity.
rSin

Trad climber
calif
May 10, 2013 - 06:58am PT
wonder how his come clean about domestic abuse fits into that?
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
May 10, 2013 - 09:52am PT
mt10190,

I wasn't commenting on Hawking's personal life. You misread my post. Perhaps I wasn't clear.....sheesh. Get your panties untwisted and relax...it seems like YOU'RE the one who needs to get out for a bit of climbing.
mt10910

climber
May 10, 2013 - 10:10am PT
Credit: mt10910

not this weekend, two weekends ago, this weekend was at anchortown hospital visiting non-coma, comaboy-he woke up.

The implication of Stephen being a "typical" scientist is that the same "integrity" applies to his personal/political life. It doesn't.

"Typical" I don't know a scientist that hasn't written a paper proving his old paper wrong. It is great for grant writing. You write a paper, you provide a testable hypothesis to get funding to investigate. You use the money to get more data/information. You write another paper saying the 1st paper was not fully correct (wrong) and the process continues. As scientists it is our culture to prove wrong, it has nothing to do with integrity.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
May 10, 2013 - 11:37am PT
Stephen Hawkings has integrity? He cheated on his wife. You call that integrity?

I call that impressive as hell. The dude can't even speak on his own.
mt10910

climber
May 10, 2013 - 11:51am PT
deft with a mouth wand
Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
May 10, 2013 - 11:58am PT
I rejoice reading that Professor Hawking is boycotting the upcoming conference in Jerusalem. Now...if he would only join the Kardashian boycott.

Signing the petition calling for E! to cease public abuse and stop airing all Kardashian-related programming... would title him forever as Practicing Professor of Proper, Pure and Aboveboard Principle

My ears will be glued to the BBC....
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 10, 2013 - 03:13pm PT
Middle of June with this conference?

Even if the Israelis worked 24/7 days no way they will get the second DOME in place to protect the speakers or attendees. It is to be finished by the earliest 2015.

Do not understand why our State Dept. has not said not a good time to visit this time and in the next month and being even in the vicinity or hotels where they are staying; of course they still have 39 days to say.


Kardashian boycott: it's un-American to do such a thing. where do I sign.



TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 10, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
The Iron dome system is truck mounted and palletized.

They can move one in a matter of hours if required.
lostinshanghai

Social climber
someplace
May 10, 2013 - 04:18pm PT
TGT

"They can move one in a matter of hours if required."

They will not have hours to deploy they need seconds to deploy.

That is the old or first generation system. The US promised [negotiated excuse me] with the funds {billions] procured to Israel that is on the list [second generation]. South Lebanon is where the Israelis need more protection or are more vulnerable.

That is why Lebanon did not get involved when Gaza and Israel were exchanging rockets. They have more since and that is why Israel shot in Syrian space and the destruction in the delivery of more of these.

Stay tuned.
gonzo chemist

climber
Fort Collins, CO
May 10, 2013 - 05:14pm PT
mt10910,

I'm glad to hear your friend woke up from the coma. I sincerely wish him a full recovery, and hope he can get back out to the mountains soon.

At your behest, I did a bit of reading. I don't respect S.H.'s personal life decisions regarding his marriage to Jane Wilde, and I would certainly never defend them.

However, I will stand by my statement that I believe his admission that he was wrong concerning the "cosmic censorship conjecture" warrants merit.

You're absolutely correct that disproving theories is a cornerstone of science. However, I've seen enough of competing egos to know that not all scientists are always so willing to publicly admit they're wrong. I work in a field where experimental design is very easy compared to the contentious world of theoretical physics. I can only imagine the heated debates, and the resulting firmly entrenched positions.

And with that, I'm going for a run before it starts raining again...

Ciao.




Jingy

climber
Somewhere out there
May 11, 2013 - 03:33pm PT
http://www.alternet.org/5-reasons-why-smartest-man-world-right-boycott-israel

5 Reasons Why the Smartest Man in the World Is Right to Boycott Israel
Stephen Hawking should be commended for pulling out of an Israeli conference as a protest at Israel's treatment of Palestinians.

May 9, 2013 |


As announced by the British Committee for the Universities of Palestine ( BRICUP) and subsequently covered by The Guardian, Reuters and others, world-renowned theoretical physicist and cosmologist Professor Stephen Hawking has decided to heed the Palestinian call for boycott, and pull out of an Israeli conference hosted by President Shimon Peres in June. After initial confusion, this was confirmed - Hawking is staying away on political grounds.

Here are five reasons why Professor Hawking is right to boycott:

5. Whitewashing apartheid

The Israeli government and various lobby groups use events such as the "Presidential Conference" to whitewash Israel's crimes past and present, a tactic sometimes referred to as "rebranding". As a Ministry of Foreign Affairs official put it after the 2009 Gaza massacre, it is the kind of approach that means sending "well-known novelists and writers overseas, theatre companies, [and] exhibits" in order to "show Israel's prettier face, so we are not thought of purely in the context of war". " Brand Israel" is all about creating a positive image for a country that is the target of human rights campaigners the world over - as if technological innovations or high-profile conferences can hide the reality of occupation and ethnic cleansing.

4. Shimon Peres

Despite his reputation in the West as a "dove", Peres' career to date includes war crimes in Lebanon, support for collective punishment of Palestinians in Gaza, and, in private discussions, incitementagainst non-Jewish citizens. Anyone would do well to avoid a conference hosted by such a hypocrite. Simply not being Ariel Sharon does not really cut it; Peres should be scheduled for a trip to The Hague, not welcoming foreign dignitaries and celebrities.

3. Boycott is not incompatible with 'dialogue'

Contrary to the rhetoric of Israeli officials and sympathisers, boycott is not contrary to dialogue. Hawking's decision, for example, will mean people are discussing Israeli policies and strategies for ending occupation. That is not atypical - BDS initiatives often encourage a meaningful exchange of views and perspectives. However, some people abuse the concept of dialogue to defend an asymmetrical status quo, leaving intact a colonial power dynamic where, in the words of South African poet James Matthews, "the oppressor sits seared with his spoils/with no desire to share equality/leaving the oppressed seeking warmth/at the cold fire of/Dialogue". Boycott has nothing to do with having, or not having, conversations - it is about accountability for, and opposing, basic violations of a people's rights. Confronting and resisting the reality of Israeli apartheid begets a dialogue that is fully realised in the context of equality and decolonisation.



2. Impunity and accountability

The boycott is grounded firmly in the well documented facts of Israeli policies. The US State Department speaks of "institutional discrimination" faced by Palestinian citizens, while Human Rights Watch says Israel maintains a "two-tier system" in the West Bank. From the "discriminatory" control and distribution of water resources ( Amnesty International) to the "forced transfer of the native population" ( European Union), it is no wonder that the UN's Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination has reported Israel as violating prohibitions against "racial segregation and apartheid".

Illegal settlements are used to colonise the West Bank, Palestinians in Gaza are blockaded and bombed, Palestinians in East Jerusalem have their homes demolished - and all the while, of course, expelled Palestinian refugees just a few miles from their properties are still prevented from returning home on the basis they are not Jews. And note that the "But what about China/Myanmar/Syria etc" line misses the point (as well as placing Israel in some rather interesting company). A boycott is a tactic, advisable in some contexts, and not in others. It is not about a scale of injustice or wrongdoing. It is about a strategy targeting systematic human rights abuses and breaches of international law, called for by the colonised. Which brings us to…


1. The Palestinian call for solidarity

Palestinians suffering under Israeli apartheid are calling for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) as a strategy in the realisation of their basic rights, a fact that many Zionists choose to ignore when attacking boycott campaigns. The Palestinian civil society call for BDS was officially launched on July 9 2005, a year after the International Court of Justice's advisory opinion on the illegality of Israel's Separation Wall. Signatories to the BDS call come from representatives of Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, Palestinian citizens of Israel, and Palestinian refugees. Since then, growing numbers of people in the likes of academia, the arts world, trade unions and faith communities have answered the BDS call with initiatives that put the focus firmly on Israel's routine violations of international law and ending complicity in these crimes. Professor Hawking is to be commended for seeking the advice of Palestinian academics, and heeding their request for international solidarity in a decades-long struggle for freedom and justice.

Ben White is a freelance journalist, writer and activist, specialising in Palestine/Israel. He is a graduate of Cambridge University.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 12, 2013 - 07:01am PT
Brokebackclimber said:
"Isn't that the same picture of Hillary they show patients in Hospital ERs to help treat individuals checking in with erections lasting more than 4 hours? Cialis and Viagra induced erections just don't stand a chance."
Holy crap I almost spewed coffee at the monitor at that comment !!! Thanks for the morning laugh Brokeback!


All those who don't support Israels right to exist raise their hands. Opps, I see most everyone has their hand raised already. Well, maybe you all should take up a collection to pay for swimming lessons for the Jews so that when the Arabs push them all into the Mediteranian Sea they can dog paddle for a while.

It looks like Hawking has finally discovered what was clear to everyone else, peace in the middle east is a Black hole. Pick a side.

Another view: http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/noam-chomsky-pushed-stephen-hawking-to-boycott-israeli-conference/2013/05/11/ Of course, Chomsky and Hawking have been clear on the 70,000 people killed in Syria as well...opps, nevermind, they don't give a sh#t about them. Sorry.
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 12, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
May 12, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
When an abused child grows up to themselves become an abuser you can certainly lay the blame on other than the child, but in the end does it matter when the abuse continues.

Genocide suffered or genocide waged - it's still genocide.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 15, 2013 - 01:02pm PT
Don't see where Israel is committing genocide. They are at war, declared by others, on several fronts, and trying to survive. Found this write up and thought it was worth sharing.

http://www.tabletmag.com/scroll/132327/how-stephen-hawking-is-wrong

"Now that the Stephen Hawking controversy has died down and the usual suspects have traded their predictable barbs, it would serve us well to examine, coolly and without prejudice, the contours of the affair. If for no other reason, we’re likely to see similar cases pop up in the near future, and rather than being swept anew each time by the powerful gales of resentment and rage, we would do well to try and define the contours of useful conversation. Let us steer clear of the blowhards on either side, whom we’ve lost long ago. Let us also avoid nudging the conversation towards absolute terms like legitimacy, and assume, bluntly, that any human action that is not illegal is a legitimate and permissible one. What we aim for is something much more practical and far less illustrious, namely some common ground for us, the majority of people who see the nuance in this situation and who strive to settle reason, justice, and common-sense. Towards that end, I propose, the following four principles apply:

The Priority Principle: As soon as news broke of the esteemed physicist’s snubbing of the Jerusalem conference, defenders of the Jewish State argued that Hawking’s response was nonsensical given the rush of brutalities surging everywhere from Damascus to the Democratic Republic of Congo. To the extent that it implies that one ought to focus on one conflict at a time, the argument is false; as Noam Sheizaf rightly pointed out in +972, “the genocide in Cambodia was taking place at the same time as the boycott effort against South Africa,” and any claim that we ought not to focus on one when there’s another going on may very well lead to inaction. This, however, is where the priority principle comes into play: to the extent that one chooses to be an engaged and responsible global citizen, one is expected to set priorities and act on them. Such is the mark of maturity: while we are all surrounded by a constellation of stimulations, we must, if we wish to lead a morally balanced life, concentrate our attention on those challenges that are most pressing, which, as all but the most hardened cynics would agree, means that priority ought to be given to any crisis involving the loss of human life. There is little doubt that, for many, living in the occupied West Bank is cruel and tragic. But 70,000 human beings have been slaughtered in the last two years just a few kilometers to the north in Assad’s inferno. Anyone, then, is free to protest Israel’s policies, but as long as they remain silent on other, and far more pressing, catastrophes, reasonable observers will be right to question whether singling out Israel mightn’t be guided by ulterior, and dishonorable, motives.

The Categorical Imperative Principle: Arguably the foundation of much of our moral and legal system, Immanuel Kant’s categorical imperative states that one must only act if one’s action may apply as a universal law. Hawking, then, is welcome to boycott these regimes that are engaged in what he believes are severe violations of human rights. But, as the Israeli political scientist Shlomo Avineri insightfully argued, if Hawking was following his own logic, not to mention Kant’s, he would have to place similar constraints on his relations with official parties in Britain and the United States, having famously called the military campaign in Iraq a “war crime.” If this is what Hawking believes, and there’s no reason to doubt him, then President Obama—patron of predator drones, which have killed, by some estimates, anywhere between 3,500 and 4,700 people, of whom at least four were Americans shot without trial—must be equally as morally tainted as President Shimon Peres, whose invitation Hawking refused. This, of course, wasn’t the case: Hawking was pleased to receive the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2009. Avineri is absolutely correct in claiming that in turning down one invitation and embracing another, Hawking violated not only the categorical imperative but also good, old-fashioned common sense.

The Principle of Consequence: While on the subject of common sense, advocates of any political cause mustn’t lose sight of a simple realization, namely that actions have consequences, and that if one is engaged in a pursuit to improve conditions here on earth—any other sort of political undertaking is messianic, and is almost certain to inflict wounds rather than heal them—one should be concerned with outcomes just as much as with abstractions. The theory among supporters of BDS holds that massive isolation of Israeli society would eventually lead to the Jewish State’s downfall, just as it had ended the segregationist regime in South Africa. Without discussing the merits of comparing the occupation to apartheid, it is not too difficult to admit that, under the existing geopolitical conditions, attempts to isolate Israel internationally are very likely to have an adverse effect. With strong American support in the foreseeable future, Israel is never likely to suffer a blow crucial enough to undermine its well-being; boycotts, then, serve as little but fodder for the worst elements in the Israeli political landscape, already grim. The narrative that posits Israel as a small and persecuted nation having no choice but to sacrifice all hope on the altar of vigilance is, arguably, a greater threat to that nation than all of Tehran’s missiles. It’s a line of thinking that leads to nothing but despair, and Hawking, in his refusal, feeds right into it. He might’ve used his clout to travel to Jerusalem and offer some harsh and inconvenient truths from his podium. He might’ve taken the opportunity to urge his pal Obama into playing a more decisive role in pressing for the rekindling of negotiations. He might’ve even met and spoken with young Israelis, promising them—as the American president had during his recent visit to Jerusalem—that a better tomorrow is possible if only they held their leaders accountable. Instead, Hawking wasted all his clout on a purely symbolic, utterly useless act. It’s more than just a shame.

The Proust Principle: Too often understood, often by people who had never read him, to be a chronicler of high society for whom the aesthetic always trumped the political, Proust offers us as many insights into politics as he does into any other realm of the human experience. One in particular resonates: political convictions, he argued, are like kaleidoscopic visions, constantly shifting and intricately linked to a host of other emotional, social, even artistic criteria. Rather than seek absolutes and fortify barriers, he advocates keeping in mind that the next shift in focus is just around the corner, and that we, if we’re alive at all, are constantly changing creatures. This profound insight is not without its prescriptions: following the master’s teachings, a Proustian political activist would therefore seek to establish coalitions not necessarily with those who hold similar opinions—these opinions, history and Proust’s great novel both show us, are apt to change—but with those towards whom one feels, to borrow the phrase Christopher Hitchens and Bill Buckley used to describe their (at times unlikely) friendship, a “consanguinity of spirit.” It is easy to see all of Israeli society as playing a part in the occupation, and coarse arguments insist that as the army plays a major part in the lives of individuals and institutions in Israel the nation entire is morally tainted. Proust, as conflicted about the implications of Jewish identity as anyone, would brush off such dogma, insisting that there are conflicted, attentive minds inside every political thicket eager to listen and interact, and that it’s the task of the artist, not to mention the activist, to make them heard. This is what’s lost when we stop talking, a loss that makes life poorer."
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
May 23, 2013 - 06:36pm PT
http://sofrep.com/12729/the-explosive-goat/
Degaine

climber
May 24, 2013 - 01:44am PT
healyje wrote:
When an abused child grows up to themselves become an abuser you can certainly lay the blame on other than the child, but in the end does it matter when the abuse continues.

Genocide suffered or genocide waged - it's still genocide.


First, as written above, I'm not sure what genocide you're talking about. Exaggerating as such for effect halts all ability to examine the real abuses of the Israeli government and any reason to sit down for a real discussion.

Second, my great grandparents were slaughtered in the Holocaust (my grandfather had already immigrated to the US in the thirties). I've lived in the US all my life so I fail to see how, even though I'm Jewish, I have anything to do with Israeli policy whatsoever. Israel is a secular democratically elected government. How can I, as a US citizen, have any effect whatsoever on their policy?

But apparently, according to you, because my family and Jewish people in Eastern Europe at large suffered genocide, I'm now the abuser committing (or condoning the same)? You're not really making that asinine, bigoted claim, are you?

You've criticized (as have I)other posters in the past for lumping all Muslims together, why are you now lumping all Jewish people together?
bookworm

Social climber
Falls Church, VA
May 24, 2013 - 06:37am PT
how about five reasons (or even one) why he was right NOT to boycott conferences in the ussr and iran?

i'll tell you why he didn't--those boycotts would require actual moral conviction and the courage that goes along with it...boycotting israel is easy and endears you to the liberal media

apartheid is, according to the un, "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them."


the evil geniuses of israel have figured out how to "systematically oppress" their arab citizens by giving them full rights of citizenship

i guess any arab who lives in israel and doesn't blow up innocent civilians, including children and the elderly, is just a coward


i wonder if hawking would attend a conference in gaza:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6iKFQDEP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etDb5tXPawc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT6iKFQDEP4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIBNRVgq59Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M529qurtDY0


my guess is yes, and you libs would cheer his moral courage and compassion


winston smith is dead
mt10910

climber
May 24, 2013 - 07:07am PT
Look,

I'll let ya in on a little secret.

As a member of the elders of Zion we control everything. Including Stephen Hawkings.

It is true we made up the Holocaust so we could expand our control in Israel because the land is so good. Google Holocaust Deniers if you doubt me.

It is true we own all the banks, newspapers, and control Hollywood and Bollywood-for that matter. We own the music world. Even the folks singers-what is Bob Dylan's real name?

What makes us laugh is you don't get it.

We made Stephen Hawking, we own Stephen Hawkings, for the elders of Zion also control the scientific world and the medical world.

Everything Stephen Hawkings says is said with a purpose that we collective believe in.

Think about it. A black hole? You might think a black hole is a region of space having a gravitational field so intense that no matter or radiation can escape.

We know a black hole is just the center of a giant bagel.

All you goys should watch the fake documentary Shoah, the true crime movie, The Hebrew Hammer and the History of the World Part I to really understand what us Jews are after. The History of the World Part II, not so much.

We want ... your, opps got to go, Uncle Saul just called we have a meeting to organize for our cousin, who is really in charge of the U.N.

In truth I can't expect goys to get it, it is all hidden in front, but do yourself a favor and look up the word genocide, look at a map of the number of Palestinians in the world and where they live, then look up how many Palestinians have been killed in the Israel so called genocide. Don't ya think of the elders of Zion, who control everything, wanted to kill off their Semitic brothers, we would have been a little more effective? Goys think we pulled off 9/11, think we made Auschwitz so we could get a good deal on a piece of rocky land in the parched middle-east, but also think we just can't seem to wipe out our neighbors. Sheesh no wonder most of the great physics were Jews and the few non-Jews are actually secret Jews.

Before Palestinians starts ripping tendons and ligaments with its typical knee-jerk reaction to my letters, it should realize that it exudes the foul odor of presenteeism. The full truth of my conclusion I shall develop in the course of this letter but the conclusion's general outline is that before it once again claims that everyone and everything discriminates against it—including the writing on the bathroom stalls—it should do some real research rather than simply play a game of bias reinforcement with its encomiasts. There is an unpleasant fact, painful to the tender-minded, that one can deduce from the laws of nature. This fact is also conclusively established by direct observation. It is a fact so obvious that rational people have always known it and no one doubted it until Palestinians and its grunts started trying to deny it. The fact to which I am referring states that fascism has served as the justification for the butchering, torture, and enslavement of more people than any other "ism". That's why it's Palestinians's favorite; it makes it easy for it to evoke a misdirected response to genuine unresolved grievances.

If you're interested in the finagling, double-dealing, chicanery, cheating, cajolery, cunning, rascality, and abject villainy by which Palestinians may make bigotry respectable any day now, then you'll want to consider the following very carefully. You'll especially want to consider that some people say that that isn't sufficient evidence to prove that Palestinians is secretly scheming to resolve a moral failure with an immoral solution. And I must agree; one needs much more evidence than that. But the evidence is there for anyone who isn't afraid to look at it. Just look at the way that the reason it wants to seek temporary tactical alliances with tartarean, coldhearted knuckleheads in order to institutionalize ultracrepidarianism through systematic violence, distorted religion, and dubious science is that it's totally violent. If you believe you have another explanation for its humorless behavior, then please write and tell me about it.

Unsettling as that is, the more infuriating fact is that Palestinians's cold, analytical approach to poststructuralism doesn't take into account the human element. In particular, those who have been hurt by poststructuralism know that Palestinians's squadristi acquiesce with bovine stolidity when it instructs them to render unspeakable and unthinkable whole categories of beliefs about power. That may sound unbelievable, but it's the truth. Another unbelievable but true statement is that Palestinians's proposals are hermetically sealed against fresh air from the real world. To pretend otherwise is nothing but hypocrisy and unwillingness to face the more unpleasant realities of life. Palestinians argues that it's a wonderful, charitable organization. To maintain this thesis, Palestinians naturally has had to shovel away a mountain of evidence, which it does by the desperate expedient of claiming that the rigors that its victims have been called upon to undergo have been amply justified in the sphere of concrete achievement. Developing a policy of inclusion will not be easy because nothing unites people like a common enemy. That's why I would encourage everybody to take some shots of their own at Palestinians by reprimanding it for destroying the natural beauty of our parks and forests. Let me leave you with one last thought: Palestinians is all too typical of the sort of dysfunctional buttinskies who engage in or goad others into engaging in illegal acts.

-Shalom


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