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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 2, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
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Anyone used Gridlocks with a Silent Partner self belay device? Always seemed to me one of the weaknesses with Silent Partner is risk of cross-loading. I suppose that is why they use two biners. But I'm thinking Gridlocks might reduce the risk. What say you'all?
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Norwegian
Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
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no the issue under scrutiny
is more of a moment loading on
the main anchor point between
the silent partner's frame
and the caribiner.
thus we utilize redundancy and
double up on the biner.
i've whipped onto mine,
like 30' or so
with no issues.
i think cross product is
the direction of torque, by definition,
so we've no worries unless
you twirl as you ascend.
go have fun
and don't consider the uncertainty at
your mid-section.
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rockermike
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
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yea, two lockers of course. but still my two beefy lockers at times bind up in the slot in a way that the pull is cross loaded. I've tried different jury-rig techniques to try to keep them in proper alignment, but the Gridlocks look like they might help. Still not sure which end would best go on the harness, and which on the SP device. Not sure....
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Norwegian
Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
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i just grab the gossamer prism as
i pass neath god's skirt.
why you so worried about gettin her
pregnant?
just clip in, screw the gates like a clock,
and aim beyond understanding.
what could possible go wrong?
nothing ever will go wrong
until it supposed to go wrong.
your emotional input is ineffective
within the greater process.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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cross-loading. I suppose that is why they use two biners.
No. Using 2 biners prevents the two shells of the device from rotating and opening a gap between the "rope retaining bars" on the bottom end of the device.
If a gap exists, the rope could easily escape through it, and the angle of the rope strands through the clove hitch could then get out of its designed range.
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Some Random Guy
climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
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i don't have a silent partner but i use a couple of minitrax's in series on gridlocks for top rope solo. helps some with cross loading (more so than a regular large belay biner) but it can still happen unfortunately. but for your situation it may work. attach your device to the small end of the gridlock which is perfectly safe. that's the recommended way for gri gri's.
top right diagram. could probably still use two biners too.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Cross loading? From your leg loops to your harness tie in? Given the flexibility of your body, it can never happen with enough force to do any damage to a single biner, let alone two that the Silent Partner instruction documents recommend.
On Iron Hawk last year, I used a big BD auto locker and a Petzl William screw gate. On a wall, after every pitch, you have to remove the SP from your harness. I found that in the cluster of my belay loop, harness leg loop and harness tie in point, that getting the SP off of two biners was quite the job. I used a screw gate so that it was an easy biner to deal with and then an auto locker simply so that it would lock up without me thinking about it. In the whole 12 days and 20 something pitches I used the SP, I never saw where it would cross load the biners.
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Maybe somebody could supply a photo of what cross-loading would look like?
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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I dunno eKat, I'm knot sure I'd use (much less envision)
two Locker's!!! One on this earth is more than enough!!!
Guffaw!!!!
(Just kidding, Lockerman!)
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McHale's Navy
Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
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Naturally I thought of the other kind O Bong first and I say what? Cross-loading, I get it now. I guess I thought he was cross-loading the SP somehow. Seems like grid-locks could ad some unwanted torque somehow/somewhere.
I'd use 2 biners - I don't trust that stuff.
Anyone working on an SP you don't have to take off the harness every pitch? Kind of an interesting project.
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hillrat
Trad climber
reno, nv
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In messing with my unit, this is the worst situation I could come up with. It's pretty unlikely, but may be a possibility.
If the SP were to catch either on the gate or just above (as in the photo) placing a leveraging type of load on the carabiner gate, I see two possibilities
1) breaking the gate or leveraging it open or
2) bending and/or breaking the attaching point on the SP
As I said, very unlikely, and could possibly be mitigated by placing the screw gate in toward your body. Or not. Thinking about it, would be more of a possibility if you fall inverted and pull the SP toward your feet. Anyway, leverage on a gate is bad.
http://ferforge.tripod.com/Doseme008.htm
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briham89
Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
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^that is why I have them opposite and apposing . aka one gate towards my body. It's kind of a bitch to undue when your doing a bunch of pitches but worth the security in my mind.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Clint said: "Using 2 biners prevents the two shells of the device from rotating and opening a gap between the "rope retaining bars" on the bottom end of the device.
If a gap exists, the rope could easily escape through it, and the angle of the rope strands through the clove hitch could then get out of its designed range."
Thanks for that Clint, I'd thought it was for redundancy.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Given that the average biner breaks that way at about 7kn, you have two biners. 14 kn. You'll never break both biners.
Also, you would have to consider the rope stretching to stop your fall, how much force is that putting on you? Far less than it takes to break two cross loaded locking biners, I suspect.
Couch, I'm sure it's also for redundancy.
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Roots
Mountain climber
SoCal
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I'm rock'n a Gridlock on my Mini-Traxion if that information helps you at all.
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the czar
climber
meyers, ca.
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you can also use a gatekeeper by metolius.
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neversummer
climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
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even though the manual says to ???
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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On Iron Hawk last year, I used a big BD auto locker and a Petzl William screw gate. On a wall, after every pitch, you have to remove the SP from your harness. I found that in the cluster of my belay loop, harness leg loop and harness tie in point, that getting the SP off of two biners was quite the job.
That's one of the (admittedly few) advantages of the Solo-Aid device. Tie in with 8mm cord, don't untie until you top out. Can't crossload cord. I love my clunky ol' inconvenient as hell Solo-Aid.
I use the Gridlock when on mini, backed up to knots on sep locker.
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Getch
Mountain climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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The manual seems a bit outdated. it mentions a swami belt and leg loops, if you were to use those then yes, they show it correctly attached. Below that diagram it also says "BE SURE TO ATTACH BOTH CARABINERS TO A SECURE
PART OF YOUR HARNESS." I edited my previous post.
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