Silent Partner and BD Gridlock biners??

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1 - 20 of total 43 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Topic Author's Original Post - May 2, 2013 - 07:13pm PT
Anyone used Gridlocks with a Silent Partner self belay device? Always seemed to me one of the weaknesses with Silent Partner is risk of cross-loading. I suppose that is why they use two biners. But I'm thinking Gridlocks might reduce the risk. What say you'all?
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
May 2, 2013 - 07:23pm PT
no the issue under scrutiny
is more of a moment loading on
the main anchor point between
the silent partner's frame
and the caribiner.

thus we utilize redundancy and
double up on the biner.

i've whipped onto mine,
like 30' or so
with no issues.

i think cross product is
the direction of torque, by definition,
so we've no worries unless
you twirl as you ascend.

go have fun
and don't consider the uncertainty at
your mid-section.
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
May 2, 2013 - 07:29pm PT



"Yer GONNA die!!!"...

eKat

Mountain climber
Less than a second shy of 49 minutes
May 2, 2013 - 07:36pm PT
USE TWO LOCKERS!

USE TWO LOCKERS!

USE TWO LOCKERS!

USE TWO LOCKERS!

USE TWO LOCKERS!

USE TWO LOCKERS!

Just in case you need to brush up:

http://www.bmi.gv.at/cms/BMI_Alpindienst/service/files/WREN_Silent_Partner.pdf

AND. . .

USE TWO LOCKERS!

rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
yea, two lockers of course. but still my two beefy lockers at times bind up in the slot in a way that the pull is cross loaded. I've tried different jury-rig techniques to try to keep them in proper alignment, but the Gridlocks look like they might help. Still not sure which end would best go on the harness, and which on the SP device. Not sure....
Norwegian

Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
May 2, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
i just grab the gossamer prism as
i pass neath god's skirt.

why you so worried about gettin her
pregnant?

just clip in, screw the gates like a clock,
and aim beyond understanding.

what could possible go wrong?

nothing ever will go wrong
until it supposed to go wrong.

your emotional input is ineffective
within the greater process.
Clint Cummins

Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
May 2, 2013 - 09:02pm PT
cross-loading. I suppose that is why they use two biners.

No. Using 2 biners prevents the two shells of the device from rotating and opening a gap between the "rope retaining bars" on the bottom end of the device.
If a gap exists, the rope could easily escape through it, and the angle of the rope strands through the clove hitch could then get out of its designed range.
Some Random Guy

climber
Under a Little Pink Umbrella
May 2, 2013 - 09:23pm PT
i don't have a silent partner but i use a couple of minitrax's in series on gridlocks for top rope solo. helps some with cross loading (more so than a regular large belay biner) but it can still happen unfortunately. but for your situation it may work. attach your device to the small end of the gridlock which is perfectly safe. that's the recommended way for gri gri's.

top right diagram. could probably still use two biners too.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#301514
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 2, 2013 - 09:45pm PT
Cross loading? From your leg loops to your harness tie in? Given the flexibility of your body, it can never happen with enough force to do any damage to a single biner, let alone two that the Silent Partner instruction documents recommend.

On Iron Hawk last year, I used a big BD auto locker and a Petzl William screw gate. On a wall, after every pitch, you have to remove the SP from your harness. I found that in the cluster of my belay loop, harness leg loop and harness tie in point, that getting the SP off of two biners was quite the job. I used a screw gate so that it was an easy biner to deal with and then an auto locker simply so that it would lock up without me thinking about it. In the whole 12 days and 20 something pitches I used the SP, I never saw where it would cross load the biners.
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 2, 2013 - 10:07pm PT
Maybe somebody could supply a photo of what cross-loading would look like?
SteveW

Trad climber
The state of confusion
May 2, 2013 - 10:25pm PT

I dunno eKat, I'm knot sure I'd use (much less envision)
two Locker's!!! One on this earth is more than enough!!!

Guffaw!!!!

(Just kidding, Lockerman!)
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
May 2, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
Naturally I thought of the other kind O Bong first and I say what? Cross-loading, I get it now. I guess I thought he was cross-loading the SP somehow. Seems like grid-locks could ad some unwanted torque somehow/somewhere.

I'd use 2 biners - I don't trust that stuff.

Anyone working on an SP you don't have to take off the harness every pitch? Kind of an interesting project.
hillrat

Trad climber
reno, nv
May 3, 2013 - 01:58am PT
In messing with my unit, this is the worst situation I could come up with. It's pretty unlikely, but may be a possibility.
If the SP were to catch either on the gate or just above (as in the photo) placing a leveraging type of load on the carabiner gate, I see two possibilities
1) breaking the gate or leveraging it open or
2) bending and/or breaking the attaching point on the SP
As I said, very unlikely, and could possibly be mitigated by placing the screw gate in toward your body. Or not. Thinking about it, would be more of a possibility if you fall inverted and pull the SP toward your feet. Anyway, leverage on a gate is bad.
http://ferforge.tripod.com/Doseme008.htm
photo not found
Missing photo ID#301546
briham89

Big Wall climber
san jose, ca
May 3, 2013 - 02:03am PT
^that is why I have them opposite and apposing . aka one gate towards my body. It's kind of a bitch to undue when your doing a bunch of pitches but worth the security in my mind.
couchmaster

climber
pdx
May 3, 2013 - 09:28am PT
Clint said:
"Using 2 biners prevents the two shells of the device from rotating and opening a gap between the "rope retaining bars" on the bottom end of the device.
If a gap exists, the rope could easily escape through it, and the angle of the rope strands through the clove hitch could then get out of its designed range."

Thanks for that Clint, I'd thought it was for redundancy.
Mark Hudon

Trad climber
Hood River, OR
May 3, 2013 - 09:31am PT
Given that the average biner breaks that way at about 7kn, you have two biners. 14 kn. You'll never break both biners.
Also, you would have to consider the rope stretching to stop your fall, how much force is that putting on you? Far less than it takes to break two cross loaded locking biners, I suspect.

Couch, I'm sure it's also for redundancy.
Roots

Mountain climber
SoCal
May 3, 2013 - 11:03am PT
I'm rock'n a Gridlock on my Mini-Traxion if that information helps you at all.
the czar

climber
meyers, ca.
May 3, 2013 - 11:57am PT
you can also use a gatekeeper by metolius.
Getch

Mountain climber
Flagstaff, AZ
May 3, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
Soooo you should never put a 'biner through the legloops and belt like that... use the belay loop, it's stronger and reduces the chances of cross loading, also the people who made the harness know better than you do.

Sorry for being short, picked up a guy who is now in a wheel chair because of that crap. stop it.

No harness manufacturer recommends doing it when the harness has a belay loop. I see that the SP manual says too, but the harness pictured does not have a loop. be safe!

Edited:

http://www.petzl.com/en/outdoor/advice-on-harness-use

http://d2x7l0jhvlx9iz.cloudfront.net/files/MM5871_C%20Tech_Harness%20IT%20WEB.pdf
neversummer

climber
30 mins. from suicide USA
May 3, 2013 - 03:10pm PT
even though the manual says to ???
Messages 1 - 20 of total 43 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews